Author Topic: Spell Card Help Topic V: Cheeto Lasers Edition  (Read 251131 times)

_zheprime

  • .... Time's Up!
  • Prepare to be pawned!....
Re: Spell Card Help Topic V: Cheeto Lasers Edition
« Reply #60 on: June 08, 2012, 05:10:45 AM »
...... Thanks for the help Seiga Kaku....... I'll try that this coming weekend..... hopefully that will help me attain my very first 1cc of the game.... heheheh ^^

thanks!

Chuckolator

  • ex-perfecter, good times
Re: Spell Card Help Topic V: Cheeto Lasers Edition
« Reply #61 on: June 08, 2012, 05:17:02 AM »
Losing Hometown "Lost Soul's Village -Fatal Sin-"
Easy card, just keep shooting until you have to move, then dodge the waves and repeat the other way. Not much to say.
Flowery Soul "Swallowtail Butterfly"
Everyone seems to have a different way of going at this one. My method is to go in a consistent triangular shape. First I lure the butterflies close to Yuyuko (close enough for the butterflies to not hit the bottom) then I go to the bottom, when the butterflies come I go off to one side. From there, I carefully make my way back to where I first lured then, and I repeat until it's over. It's a little daunting to go inward at an angle though, so you might want to do this in reverse.
Cherry Blossom Sign "The Perfect Ink-black Cherry Blossom -Getting Lost-
Most of this is random dodging, so I can't really say much. Just try to stay under her (you do more damage directly) and if it helps, I'm pretty sure the aimed side of bullets are shot at your position when they first spawned, I think.
Aiming to perfect every stage in Touhou. loljk don't care anymore You can find my perfects here or here.
Best perfects so far include UFO 6, MoF 4 and IN 6A.

formerly known as Seiga Kaku

Zil

Re: Spell Card Help Topic V: Cheeto Lasers Edition
« Reply #62 on: June 08, 2012, 05:24:28 AM »
I have to ask a question here. I always see people struggling to clear the games, trying to get their "first 1cc" or whatever, and it always seems like people are starting out on Normal mode. Is it that you've done Easy already but you don't count it as a 1cc, or do people actually just skip Easy mode and go right to Normal? I only ask becuase I feel like I see this all the time, and the impression I get is that people don't count Easy clears as being real or something.

On topic: I think someone asked about the Prismrivers' first spell. The one you damage most will perform the next few solo attacks.

_zheprime

  • .... Time's Up!
  • Prepare to be pawned!....
Re: Spell Card Help Topic V: Cheeto Lasers Edition
« Reply #63 on: June 08, 2012, 05:44:11 AM »
the impression I get is that people don't count Easy clears as being real or something.


..... IMO, having a 1cc clear in Easy modes don't unlock the Extra Mode, which makes it a little less worth trying for (this is not the case in IN).... also, it its important to take note that there is at least a huge gap between Easy and Normal Mode, in terms of difficulty (this is at least true to some people, including me).... but it really depends on the person playing if he feels he will improve in playing Easy mode first, rather than going straight to victory (talking about unlocking the Extra stage).....

I don't mean to brag or be little anyone here... this is just clearly my opinion... no offense please..... ^^  :ohdear:
« Last Edit: June 08, 2012, 05:46:08 AM by _zheprime »

Lepetit89

  • Deranged Collector
Re: Spell Card Help Topic V: Cheeto Lasers Edition
« Reply #64 on: June 08, 2012, 05:56:18 AM »
. but it really depends on the person playing if he feels he will improve in playing Easy mode first, rather than going straight to victory (talking about unlocking the Extra stage).....

This part is true (though I'll limit it to the bolded part). Achievements are purely subjective in the first place, if that weren't the case, no one would feel compelled to congratulate someone who achieved something less significant than what they are capable of in the first place; Hard Mode players would look down on Normal players who, in return, frown upon trying to clear Easy Mode. In the end, they are living in a world heavily oppressed by Lunatic players where Lunatic players get all the women and money.

Achievements are achievements if you struggled to get them. If you have a hard time with Easy and get to clear it, you'll be just as happy as someone who clears Normal - anyone who's willing to become better and fight for what he, personally, wants to achieve, deserves congratulations. From that perspective, an Easy Mode clear is just as signifcant as a Normal or Hard Mode clear. Perhaps some people would be saying that an Easy Mode clear does not take so great an improvement as, say, a Hard Mode clear - but again, that depends entirely on the person. Who am I to judge the half-blind guy with one arm who struggled with all his might to clear Easy? Or the guy who's simply terrible at these games? Am I going to devalue their achievements? Definitely not, if people fought, then they deserve praise. Everything else is just for oneself anyway.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2012, 06:00:20 AM by Lepetit89 »

I have no name

  • Dodge ALL the bullets
Re: Spell Card Help Topic V: Cheeto Lasers Edition
« Reply #65 on: June 08, 2012, 06:01:23 AM »
I beat easy on 3 games total (as accomplishments): IN, when I was first starting, SA and UFO when I was practicing for normal mode.  The rest I don't think I touched outside of 120+ FPS  :V

So, really, due to the play order I took (stupid score.dat  for IN, having me spell practice for extended periods of time) I didn't really play the easy modes, I went straight to normal and didn't have too much trouble with it.

Hard mode start for TH14 though.

Definitely not, if people fought, then they deserve praise.
So does that mean my SA lunatic 1cc doesn't, as I cleared first attempt that didn't die before midboss Parsee ended?  Does that mean that my inevitable TD lunatic 1cc will deserve more simply because it took longer/more attempts?  Just a couple examples that sow why I disagree with this part only, unless I'm misinterpreting.

on the topic of TD lunatic, does anyone have a good path for when the fairies come from both sides shooting solid streams of aimed bullets?  I seem to get trapped by them most attempts.

_zheprime

  • .... Time's Up!
  • Prepare to be pawned!....
Re: Spell Card Help Topic V: Cheeto Lasers Edition
« Reply #66 on: June 08, 2012, 06:03:22 AM »
Achievements are achievements if you struggled to get them. If you have a hard time with Easy and get to clear it, you'll be just as happy as someone who clears Normal - anyone who's willing to become better and fight for what he, personally, wants to achieve, deserves congratulations. From that perspective, an Easy Mode clear is just as signifcant as a Normal or Hard Mode clear.

I agree with you sir Lepetit89..... this is clearly true .... what I'm trying to say that is less worth trying for is if one desires to unlock the Extra Stage.....  :ohdear:

In the end, they are living in a world heavily oppressed by Lunatic players where Lunatic players get all the women and money.

Wow.. is this really true?  ???.... I better start practicing.... hehehehe :D

I have no name

  • Dodge ALL the bullets
Re: Spell Card Help Topic V: Cheeto Lasers Edition
« Reply #67 on: June 08, 2012, 06:07:40 AM »
Wow.. is this really true?  ???.... I better start practicing.... hehehehe :D
he forgot to mention the lunatic players are overshadowed by the superplayers (those who play for score, those who do stupid things and win, like 90 FPS lunatic, or UFO ultra lunatic), which are in turn overshadowed by the dodging AIs.  meaning robots are one step closer to taking over the world!  (see PoFV lunatic match mode, watch computers dodge each other for a half hour straight flawlessly)

Lepetit89

  • Deranged Collector
Re: Spell Card Help Topic V: Cheeto Lasers Edition
« Reply #68 on: June 08, 2012, 06:37:39 AM »

So does that mean my SA lunatic 1cc doesn't, as I cleared first attempt that didn't die before midboss Parsee ended?  Does that mean that my inevitable TD lunatic 1cc will deserve more simply because it took longer/more attempts?  Just a couple examples that sow why I disagree with this part only, unless I'm misinterpreting.

No, I wouldn't necessarily say that; after all, that SA clear is still a result of all the practice you went through, isn't it? Of course, to you it's probably a bit less of an achievement (really just a bit, I know that it's still a great feeling, had pretty much the same with my SA Hard clear) than it would have been had you tried to beat it for weeks, but as far as I'm concerned, you worked your way up the ladder and beat the game. If you got to that point by playing other games or by going through meditation or some obscure practices, I don't care, I know one thing for sure - you worked for that clear. You practiced with the goal of clearing the games in mind. Not necessarily in the same game, but you got to a point at which you could beat it by practicing. You achieved that clear through hard work, and for that you'd definitely deserve praise.

Of course, there's still stuff that's impressive and merits praise of its own. Lunatics, for instance, are something that's still difficult to me, so I, as a spectator, would look at it from an entirely different point of view then I'd look at, say, Easy Mode. However, that's an entirely different point of view already. In essence, I guess there are two instances in which praise is merited - I consider it difficult or the player had to work. In general, however, the latter is probably the greater reward to the player himself, unless he just wants bragging rights. For spectators, the former is probably more signifcant.

You've got me officially scared of AIs now, though! In that world Lunatic players would be a bunch of corrupt asshats. The superplayers would be the heroes if this setup wound up turned into a story, the AIs the evil overlords with a few Lunatic pawns. This story would write itself!

I agree with you sir Lepetit89..... this is clearly true .... what I'm trying to say that is less worth trying for is if one desires to unlock the Extra Stage.....  :ohdear:

Yes, that certainly is true, no doubt. Considering that there's nothing but pain and tears for Easy Mode players in Extra Stages, it shouldn't concern them too much, though. Those are two different groups to begin with; Extra Stages probably have less actual worth to Easy players than to Normal players.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2012, 09:14:32 AM by Lepetit89 »

Seppo Hovi

Re: Spell Card Help Topic V: Cheeto Lasers Edition
« Reply #69 on: June 08, 2012, 12:09:19 PM »
For those of you having trouble with IN 4B on normal, this might help a bit. Made it ages ago, but it still is rather good, at least for survival.


Regarding the women and money, please dot_asp, stop stealing all my money. You can keep the women, but I really could use the money ;___;

Okay okay, regarding the achievements. Anything you consider an achievement is an achievement. The main thing about achievements is not if they please some random guy from MotK, but if they mean a lot to you. For example, I have several IN easymode clears I can look back and like them, while most of the lunatic 1CC's I've done felt.. dull, compared to those. Hence why I never upload them.

PapillonReel

  • Liquid Snake
  • I'm actually pretty patient.
Re: Spell Card Help Topic V: Cheeto Lasers Edition
« Reply #70 on: June 08, 2012, 07:50:26 PM »
I have to ask a question here. I always see people struggling to clear the games, trying to get their "first 1cc" or whatever, and it always seems like people are starting out on Normal mode. Is it that you've done Easy already but you don't count it as a 1cc, or do people actually just skip Easy mode and go right to Normal? I only ask becuase I feel like I see this all the time, and the impression I get is that people don't count Easy clears as being real or something.

For me, it's not so much that Easy Modo doesn't count as a clear as it is that it's too... well, easy. For the games that I've played so far (EoSD, PCB, IN, GFW), clearing them on easy took me about 2-3 tries each with a ton of lives left over, and it wasn't until I jumped up to Normal that the games started putting up a fight. I won't begrudge someone for playing on an easier difficulty though - if Easy is what a person's happy and comfortable with, then more power to them.

Yes, that certainly is true, no doubt. Considering that there's nothing but pain and tears for Easy Mode players in Extra Stages, it shouldn't concern them too much, though. Those are two different groups to begin with; Extra Stages probably have less actual worth to Easy players than to Normal players.

I'd say that depends on the player. GFW was my first Touhou game and I jumped straight from Easy to Extra and improved dramatically because of it. Sometimes making the plunge into a higher difficulty can force you to improve in ways that a gradual change can't, but that could just be me.

Re: Spell Card Help Topic V: Cheeto Lasers Edition
« Reply #71 on: June 09, 2012, 12:51:56 AM »
Because easy mode isn't good enough to show off and tell others, and the difficulty margins are much bigger (big gap between easy and normal and so on though this varies for some of the touhou games). So easy is massively easy compared to nromal.

Though it all depends on people's standards. Normal is ordinary, so imo its the benchmark for almost everything.

Anyway, how to do that final wave of enemies just before Shou in UFO stage 5 lunatic?

_zheprime

  • .... Time's Up!
  • Prepare to be pawned!....
Re: Spell Card Help Topic V: Cheeto Lasers Edition
« Reply #72 on: June 09, 2012, 01:49:26 AM »
For those of you having trouble with IN 4B on normal, this might help a bit. Made it ages ago, but it still is rather good, at least for survival.

Thank you very much sir Seppo Hovi!......
Now it is all up to me then to get my first 1cc of the game and the series.....
I'm a beginner by the way (excuses)..... hehehehe  :D

xForeverFanaticx

  • Bomb ALL the Spellcards!
Re: Spell Card Help Topic V: Cheeto Lasers Edition
« Reply #73 on: June 09, 2012, 04:41:23 PM »
*is in dire need of help on Guerilla Typhoon, the spell after that, Red UFO Invasion, Green UFO Invasion, that one spell with the dark clouds where Nue chases you (I know you can misdirect her from side to side at the top, but I can't weave through the bullets fast enough after like 3 waves), and Nue's survival card*

At least I got there~ ^^

I have no name

  • Dodge ALL the bullets
Re: Spell Card Help Topic V: Cheeto Lasers Edition
« Reply #74 on: June 09, 2012, 04:54:20 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DfmSQiXpJw
Guerrilla Typhoon (ultra patched, you should dodge farther to the left than what I do here although I suggest just bombing it)

I don't have a video of the card immediately after, but I have captured it (once) with the following technique:
"What I do is read the direction the lasers are spinning, go the opposite direction, then once the lasers slow down enough to read I get in a gap and move with the lasers."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqwXbxyCz1M
4:52, Red UFO capture with SanaeA (strategy works with all shot types)
7:35, Green UFO capture
8:15, Undefined Darkness capture

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPWT7t5KK-0
capture of the survival (ultra patched, same strategy applies)

that SA clear is still a result of all the practice you went through, isn't it? ...than it would have been had you tried to beat it for weeks, but as far as I'm concerned, you worked your way up the ladder and beat the game...but you got to a point at which you could beat it by practicing.
Err-what practice?  I was completely blind after the Stage 2 midboss.  I'd been trying for months but always aborted my attempts before there due to deaths, again, what practice  :V

I'm fully aware most people don't have mostly blind clears like that, but it's a pretty common occurrence for me (but not for lunatic, and not for the last 4 stages either!)

Esper

  • <Temporary Title>
  • <Temporary Text>
Re: Spell Card Help Topic V: Cheeto Lasers Edition
« Reply #75 on: June 09, 2012, 05:06:33 PM »
I have to ask a question here. I always see people struggling to clear the games, trying to get their "first 1cc" or whatever, and it always seems like people are starting out on Normal mode. Is it that you've done Easy already but you don't count it as a 1cc, or do people actually just skip Easy mode and go right to Normal?

"Eh, Easy Mode?! How lame!"

"Only elementary school kids play Easy Mode!"

"Kyahahahahahaha!"

This is why I only cleared UFO on Easy and then hammered at TD the day it came out, only to 1cc the game on Normal two and a half months later.
My profile picture is whimsy until I feel like adding something else.

Enjoy.

Zil

Re: Spell Card Help Topic V: Cheeto Lasers Edition
« Reply #76 on: June 09, 2012, 05:21:34 PM »
Okay, thanks for the responses guys. My primary fear was that the deal was... exactly that thing Esu just said. Seems most people here are doing fine with Normal, so playing it makes perfect sense, but I just wanted to be sure noone was avoiding Easy out of pride or something.

@ForeverFanatic - Fufufufu I just love throwing around this replay - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWTbl1RmTkc

If Undefined Darkness is overwhelming you, you can fall back and just run from corner to corner until it times out. It's probably the safest thing to do once the attack gets too fast. Or if you want to play it even safer and spend a few bombs in a controlled fashion, bomb to get to the top of the screen,  then go straight back down under Nue. So it's like, bomb on the way up, damage on the way down. If you can back up slowly and take two waves on the way down, that's even better.

Err-what practice?
Playing on Hard or some other difficulty, playing Touhou in general. You didn't play it directly but you still had experience with the game.

BT

  • I never talk to you
  • *
  • People say that I should
Re: Spell Card Help Topic V: Cheeto Lasers Edition
« Reply #77 on: June 09, 2012, 05:23:58 PM »
Easy is what I would call casual Touhou - simply because you don't have a reason to play it if you're competitive, not because of pride issues but because it doesn't help you improve outside of knowing the controls.

xForeverFanaticx

  • Bomb ALL the Spellcards!
Re: Spell Card Help Topic V: Cheeto Lasers Edition
« Reply #78 on: June 09, 2012, 06:11:14 PM »
Easy is what I would call casual Touhou - simply because you don't have a reason to play it if you're competitive, not because of pride issues but because it doesn't help you improve outside of knowing the controls.

loool~ If Easy mode is casual, then what am I? I half-ass all my runs most of the time. I'm only half focused on the game (...maybe if I actually tried more, I'd have more success :wat: )

And thanks I Have No Name and Zil, those replays really helped me a lot (in fact, the next run, I capped all 3 O: but then the run after that I only got the first 2)

EDIT: Right. I was also gonna say: In Extra Stage, what UFOs should I predominantly aim for summoning? Or is it just go with the UFOs that come, getting some greens and reds sometimes? :V

BT

  • I never talk to you
  • *
  • People say that I should
Re: Spell Card Help Topic V: Cheeto Lasers Edition
« Reply #79 on: June 09, 2012, 06:14:30 PM »
I'm talking about people that are perfectly fine with sticking to Easy because they enjoy doing so and don't feel the need to try something waaaaay harder and more time consuming.

PapillonReel

  • Liquid Snake
  • I'm actually pretty patient.
Re: Spell Card Help Topic V: Cheeto Lasers Edition
« Reply #80 on: June 09, 2012, 06:30:29 PM »
I'm talking about people that are perfectly fine with sticking to Easy because they enjoy doing so and don't feel the need to try something waaaaay harder and more time consuming.

My thoughts exactly. Also: not everyone gets into the series for the gameplay alone. A lot of fans are in it for the lore as well, and Easy's there if they just want to breeze through the game and see all of the new characters and backstory first-hand. There's a reason why ZUN hasn't locked the ending behind Normal since/after EoSD, after all.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2012, 06:47:46 PM by PapillonReel »

Byaaakuren

  • Youkai Jesus, Queen of the Monks
    • Animu List
Re: Spell Card Help Topic V: Cheeto Lasers Edition
« Reply #81 on: June 09, 2012, 06:46:11 PM »
I don't see anything wrong with playing on Easy. I actually had fun every time I was trying to break 1 billion on UFO Easy, and learned new stuff about the game.

On topic, yet not on topic, how do I supergraze Ichirin's second and third non-cards? Is there a specific spot to doing it?

I thank my friend for the sig <3
My noob replays :V
Tumblr (I post NSFW stuff there)

Seppo Hovi

Re: Spell Card Help Topic V: Cheeto Lasers Edition
« Reply #82 on: June 09, 2012, 06:51:50 PM »
you don't have a reason to play it if you're competitive
Hi.

Also, there are scoreboards for easy as well, you know. And the optimisation goes into insane amounts.

I have no name

  • Dodge ALL the bullets
Re: Spell Card Help Topic V: Cheeto Lasers Edition
« Reply #83 on: June 09, 2012, 07:01:34 PM »
EDIT: Right. I was also gonna say: In Extra Stage, what UFOs should I predominantly aim for summoning? Or is it just go with the UFOs that come, getting some greens and reds sometimes? :V
The path I used in that run works very well for me, netting a gain of 2 lives and 3 bombs throughout the stage. (due to 2 2/3+1 1/3 from Nue totals 3 bombs you wouldn't get otherwise).

BT

  • I never talk to you
  • *
  • People say that I should
Re: Spell Card Help Topic V: Cheeto Lasers Edition
« Reply #84 on: June 09, 2012, 07:28:22 PM »
Hi.

Also, there are scoreboards for easy as well, you know. And the optimisation goes into insane amounts.
I guess what I meant is that, when you're competitive, you're constantly aiming to improve your skills, and you see difficulty as an indicate. Scoring is the exception, among other things.

Zil

Re: Spell Card Help Topic V: Cheeto Lasers Edition
« Reply #85 on: June 09, 2012, 10:33:16 PM »
How else do you compete aside from scoring? I'd actually say that when you're competetive, the difficulty setting becomes a non-issue, since everyone competing in that field is subjected to the same level of difficulty. The people playing against you determine the difficulty, hence the insane optimizations, even in Easy mode.

Karisa

  • Extend!
  • *
  • High scores are meant to be broken.
Re: Spell Card Help Topic V: Cheeto Lasers Edition
« Reply #86 on: June 10, 2012, 01:17:49 AM »
Easy does help outside of knowing the controls (which I think were easier to learn by playing Normal than Easy anyway, since Normal was giving me bomb-in-advance patterns earlier; I don't think I went for Easy 1ccs until after I learned the controls, though by that point only UFO took me more than a few attempts).

Not only does it help with learning the scoring system (the most effective mode for doing so in my opinion, outside of games like LLS and EoSD where it ends early), it can help you memorize enemy spawn points on the stage portions, the order of boss phases (attack phases that ambush those who auto-collect generally do so on all difficulties), and other aspects of the game that remain the same or similar across all non-Extra difficulties.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2012, 01:19:46 AM by Karisa »

Re: Spell Card Help Topic V: Cheeto Lasers Edition
« Reply #87 on: June 10, 2012, 05:04:04 AM »
This seems like a good place to ask. I've heard people say the Sakuya A is more suited for PCB Extra. Why is that?

Zil

Re: Spell Card Help Topic V: Cheeto Lasers Edition
« Reply #88 on: June 10, 2012, 05:08:00 AM »
Because they're too lazy to learn where the enemies will be so they rely on spread and auto-targeting. She's a terrible choice in the grand scheme of things.

e: I'll explain myself. She does very low damage and generates cherry+ slowly, which means less borders and thus less bullet cancelling. ReimuB and SakuyaB have high damage output and cherry+ gain, so they're the ideal choices. SakuyaB is perhaps a bit harder to handle, but she gets an extra bomb. Also, unfocusing can be a good way to get a bit more cherry+ if you need it, and SakuyaA's unfocused shot is horrendous.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2012, 05:14:00 AM by Zil »

I have no name

  • Dodge ALL the bullets
Re: Spell Card Help Topic V: Cheeto Lasers Edition
« Reply #89 on: June 10, 2012, 05:33:44 AM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPHIPez-PQg
My perfect run of the stage used ReimuB as SakuyaA could not get through Charming Siege.
This made Red Oni Blue Oni a pain.

I'd suggest SakuyaA for starting out but ReimuB is the better shot type.