How can I get my mother to agree with buying Touhou?

[Avan Nozomi]

I have the money (Though I can't get a PayPal account because parents), and I really do not want to pirate the Touhou games, and I know a few places to buy them. However, my mother is quite critical of my love for anime and, as a result, Touhou. She facepalms and rolls her eyes if I talk about it within her hearing, and she always asks me why I want to buy those games and then she steers the conversation away from ever buying them. She dislikes it if I ever talk about anime in general as well, and has made quite a few jokes that are... shall we say, hurtful, regarding the subject.

How can I convince her to buy it? I'm already the angel of the family, and I work hard enough and get good grades, so I can't do anything there.

[haoreos2]

Is she against games in general? The gameplay itself isn't very anime-like at all, with all the top-down bullet spam.
Mention how it promotes hand-eye coordination, reflexes, memory, thinking ahead, and determination.

Depending on your mother's personality, it could take a significant effort to convince her to tolerate or accept anime, so the best bet would be to downplay the anime aspects. If she is reasonable, you could try asking why she dislikes the style, explain your viewpoint on it, and explain how it is a staple of your generation like [thing your mother did as a youth that her parents thought was rather lame]. If you're the "angel of the family", you could perhaps use the "what's worse, harmless entertainment or smoking/drugs/pornography/whatever the people of your age typically do that enrages moral guardians" angle.
Of course, you can't reason someone out of what they weren't reasoned into in the first place, so that really depends on how strong the anti-anime sentiment is, and how well your mother responds to reasoning.

[Avan Nozomi]

@Haoreos2

She's not against games at all. One of the counter arguments she frequently brings up is that I already have 2 bullet hell games (Gundeadligne and Hitogata Happa), so I don't need to get Touhou.

[SuperParadox]

I usually just buy things online/in person without even telling my mom about them simply because I think she really doesn't need to know that I'm going to buy / want to buy / or  that I bought anything on the internet unless it affected her in some way. In almost most of the cases it doesn't. But then I brace for the most annoying guessing game from her and my younger sister.

I personally think that just because you're mom hates something doesn't mean she should cut you off from something you love. Specially when its something harmless. I don't think you should try my strategy as it is pretty rude to do I must admit. If shes anything like my mom she will probably cut you off when you try to reason with her. So reasoning is not the way to go. If you do its gonna be hard. Try using arranges, those seem to work in every situation for me. Try to play her something without a vocal or if you can find a good english one go with that (so she doesn't realize/think its anime)  you'll get bonus points for making it a genre she likes. And  from there you can show her more touhou related things and see what happens. Haha, i don't know if it would work for you but it worked for everyone I tried it on. Including my mom.

Good luck!

[DX7.EP]

I'd tell them that GundeadliGne and Happa are not very comparable to Touhou other than basic genre and character style. Emphasise the difference in orientation, pacing, methods of concentration and attack, etc.
Also odd to see the lack of Gundemonium Recollection, which IMO plays the best of the three Plantine Dispotif STGs. But that can be done another time.

[RSFiye]

Or you can try attending a convention where the games might be sold. I saw a good number being sold at Anime Expo 2011.

As far as online purchasing. Really, my parents didn't give a damn about how I spent my money.

Really, if she's blocking you from being able to get them legally. Well, unless you can open up your own account without her, I'm not sure.

[Drake]

I'd tell them that GundeadliGne and Happa are not very comparable to Touhou other than basic genre and character style. Emphasise the difference in orientation, pacing, methods of concentration and attack, etc.
Also odd to see the lack of Gundemonium Recollection, which IMO plays the best of the three Plantine Dispotif STGs. But that can be done another time.

Is she against games in general? The gameplay itself isn't very anime-like at all, with all the top-down bullet spam.
Mention how it promotes hand-eye coordination, reflexes, memory, thinking ahead, and determination.

why would someone who doesn't care about shmups at all need to know this

The whole "well you already have these ones" is mom language for "I don't want to go through the effort of getting it / I don't trust you getting it". Rarely if ever do people actually care if you have X of Y enough to say that you don't need more, it's just an aversion to the subject in general for some reason. It's a copout answer for when they don't want to have to argue with their kids, and they haven't grown out of the response. Imo, parents avoiding situations where they have to actually reason (and possibly lose) with their children and instead use argument by authority, denotes a pretty big lack of respect.

My parents have gotten used to me asking them for their credit card info if I can't use my Paypal (paypal with debit accounts is a bad idea btw), and they're especially thankful for me not just stealing it or saving their information or caching it or whatever. They know I don't actually need to ask them or even tell them at all, and that's why they're actually grateful for me asking them for it. Asking them permission and telling them when I buy things is the most respectful measure. The best consolation they can have is that you pay them back immediately, show them how much it was, show the results of what you're ordering, and don't take advantage of their generosity even if it's frustrated "ok fine jeez" generosity. You might do well to show her Forza's thread and all the people that have actually received their ordered stuff (i.e. everyone).

[Tengukami]

Drake's right - showing her how on-the-level the situation is helps. I'd add you could also leverage your "angel of the family" status, too, in the bargain. Speaking of bargaining, there's also wagering: I once bet my father that I could ace an Algebra midterm for permission to buy an AD&D book.

[haoreos2]

Or you can try attending a convention where the games might be sold. I saw a good number being sold at Anime Expo 2011.

Wouldn't it be hard to attend an Anime convention if the whole problem is that the mother hates anime?

why would someone who doesn't care about shmups at all need to know this

Because all of the listed skills aren't limited to games? Memory, planning and determination are important life skills in just about anything that's worth doing, and even cooking uses hand-eye coordination. Reflexes admittedly wouldn't be that important in most professions, but it's still a nice skill to have when avoiding being run over or catching something you dropped.

[Drake]

I know that, but the point is that trying to use that as an actual argument against someone who doesn't care is only going to make you look like a desperate dick. That much is true for basically all video games; you aren't actually arguing why you should get/like/etc the game, you're arguing an auxiliary that 99% of people don't give a damn about, and they'll be pretty sure that you don't actually care about the argument you're using either.

[Esper]

you're arguing an auxiliary that 99% of people don't give a damn about, and they'll be pretty sure that you don't actually care about the argument you're using either.

EXACTLY.

Anyway, I don't wager because I've had a track record which I call horrible luck. My mother pretty much hates me, I get good grades and I'm the angel of the house as well, but she tends to stereotype me, saying that I only like things that are Japanese. She'll often act without reason and call me a communist because I enjoy playing these games, often disrespectful because "My father fought against them for your country and all you do is play their games, you should be ashamed of yourself", as if trying to find any reason in the book to make me "normal".

Away from my mother, I don't really have a solution. All I can really say is just try to catch her when she tries to steer away the conversation and eventually pull a Duck Season Rabbit Season (My mother's stupid enough, she's fallen for it) on her when she starts just saying "no"/"Shut the fuck up"/"I don't want to buy it for you even though you'll pay for everything because I'm an annoyingly stubborn twat that is absolutely reasonless". If your mother's able to solve "x + y = 1" for x, then I don't know what to do.

[haoreos2]

...So your parents don't care about things that would improve your quality of life?
Maybe I just have abnormal progenitors, but I've used the same argument (successfully) as justification for several forms of entertainment. Do I watch or play these things for those reasons? No, of course not, and the parents know that. Does it make a difference? Of course not; just because it isn't the reason I want to play the game doesn't mean those positive auxiliaries just dissapear. The reason is pretty simple: you want to play a game because you enjoy it, the parent can't concieve of such a thing being fun and considers it a waste of time. You aren't saying "I only want this game because it makes me a bettar parzon", you're pointing out that despite it not being fun to the adult, it's more constructive than sitting in front of the tv.

But like I said, it depends on the parents mindset. If they consider it more than just a waste of time (such as being effeminate or morally wrong) then that reasoning won't make a difference. If they aren't the type to respond well to reasoning, then it won't help. I'm not claiming it is a magic argument that will work on everyone or even the majority, but I don't know the parents, so I'm just throwing out options to consider.

[Tengukami]

Another good thing about wagering grades/test scores - apart from it being a verbal agreement - is that she'll see you're willing to risk/earn something for it, which could go a long way in convincing her. Yeah, you're offering to pay, but the wager adds another level of responsibility-having on top of it. If you're already doing well in school, like you said, then a school-related wager should be a snap, too. Having been on both sides of the wager strategy, I know it to work. But of course, timing is everything - you don't just drop the idea whenever. Catching the right mood is important, and you'd probably know best what her most receptive mood is.

[Drake]

bla

Yes, absolutely, it isn't meaningless and it would be worth to show this to parents just as a general piece of information, but in this case you are basically suggesting it as a pinpoint argument for this particular situation, which won't work and just looks desperate. I completely agree with what you're saying, it just won't help in this case. It might help later when he isn't trying to persuade her to do something.

[Esper]

Really, I could label my mother in one sentence.

An ignorant, religious xenophobe (Yes, another reason my mother hates the idea of me buying those games is that they center around buddhism, taoism, shintoism, et cetera and not Christianity) who would prefer I act normal instead of being zany and goofy (Yes, my mother thinks that a 13-year-old should be able to act like an adult instead of remaining a child until he/she is 18 like they're supposed to), often has a fun side but will discriminate towards others of different religions (*sigh* Atheist~Gensouist (Gensokyo's gods)~Protestant Christian (VARYING) here) and tends to stereotype.

Now back to subject.

It's not that it would improve my quality of life (In fact, it does, it's pretty much the only fun thing I can play that I can enjoy), it's the fact that to be plain, they hate that I'm not like other teenagers (Automatically respect their parents regardless of what they do to them, "MY MOTHER SHOVED ME OUT OF HER [REDACTED] WITH ANESTHETICS/HAD A C-SECTION THAT MAKES HER A GOOD PERSON"), which is ironic because it means I'm not robbing a store or having a girlfriend over and yelling at them for kicking her out or getting expelled from school or getting bad grades and being proud of them. In fact, it's because "They're scared that I'm going to grow up insane/alone because I'm a massive contrast to the majority", so I can't say they hate me. I won't say my mother's BAD, per se, but she's definitely as backwards-ass as me.

Anyway, I can't wager my grades because I haven't fallen below a B+ outside of Phys. Ed (I have a history of bitching at and arguing with the teacher for what I consider either stupid or impossible exercises, so I get 81% minimum 85% maximum) and I fucking refuse to go without arguing with that twit Srnis. and I haven't fallen below an A this year in report card grades, test scores because I ace everything like the little nerd I am, and I can't wager changing my interests and personality because YOU TRY DOING THAT. I've gotten them to buy my games, but it took a decent bit, I even had to explain the idea of "I'm bored out of my fucking mind, I'm absolutely fucking perfect in academics, I have the money, give me my fucking games" in the most professional, kind, and kiss-up-y way possible. I died inside doing that.

To be plain, Drake's right.

[haoreos2]

To be plain, Drake's right.

For your situation, heck yes he is. But if Avan's mother was like that I doubt he'd even bother making the thread, as it's a lost cause from the outset.

Yes, absolutely, it isn't meaningless and it would be worth to show this to parents just as a general piece of information, but in this case you are basically suggesting it as a pinpoint argument for this particular situation, which won't work and just looks desperate. I completely agree with what you're saying, it just won't help in this case. It might help later when he isn't trying to persuade her to do something.

Admittedly I was thinking more about the times I've justified having purchased a game after the act, since I tend to just give the money to friends to buy the game for me if I can't access it from local stores, so that last sentence is pretty accurate.


@Avan: When she asks you why you buy the games, what've you said? My standard response to that when my father asked was to point out that he was an avid football supporter, despite that being a bunch of guys hitting a ball from one side of a field to another, and asking why that's any better. Does your mother do anything that relaxes her but seems pointless or boring to you?

[Esper]

@Avan: When she asks you why you buy the games, what've you said? My standard response to that when my father asked was to point out that he was an avid football supporter, despite that being a bunch of guys hitting a ball from one side of a field to another, and asking why that's any better. Does your mother do anything that relaxes her but seems pointless or boring to you?

I know you didn't ask me this, but I'll answer anyway.

I've pointed out that my mother's bought enough Guitar Hero games to make her FRIENDS know that they should get something besides Guitar Hero for Christmas. That worked. Very well, might I add.

[Avan Nozomi]

@Drake: You bring up some excellent points, thanks!

@Haoreos: Admittedly, the point where she asks me why I want them is a point I stumble over. I try to say that the style is great and the games are fun, but it comes out poorly and when it does come out decently, she honestly doesn't care for it much. And as for stuff my mom does that I think is boring, she's a huge fan of Korean dramas and K-Pop, and will buy albums and stuff like that. However, I'm not sure how that could help my situation, because to her, I'm still a child and I can't question her at all.

I'm going to try and bring this up again tomorrow and see if she'll let me buy a game.

[Tengukami]

I know you didn't ask me this, but I'll answer anyway.

This thread isn't actually about your conflicts with your mom.

[Paper Conan]

Don't forget to encounter her in a good mood and then proceed to beg. Beg  and cry your eyes out until she agrees. BV
Good luck!!~

[Aba Matindesu!]

@Haoreos2

She's not against games at all. One of the counter arguments she frequently brings up is that I already have 2 bullet hell games (Gundeadligne and Hitogata Happa), so I don't need to get Touhou.

Tell her, "That's like saying tomato sauce, carbonara sauce, and pesto are all the same; they're all sauces, but they're different." Maybe that'll get the point across.

Or you could do some variation thereof if your mother is particularly interested in something (e.g. it's like saying Bejeweled 1 = Bejeweled 2 but Bejeweled 2 has x, y, and z features)

[Esper]

This thread isn't actually about your conflicts with your mom.

I don't have conflicts, she just tends to act without reason.

[Tengukami]

I don't have conflicts, she just tends to act without reason.

Whatever the case, I hope you get my point.

Also:

Don't forget to encounter her in a good mood and then proceed to beg. Beg  and cry your eyes out until she agrees. BV
Good luck!!~

This is pretty important, although I don't know if I'd go so far as to bust out crying. Catching her at the right, most receptive mood to take a look at N-Forza's thread, or see you have PayPal stuff all lined up and ready to pay her, that would help a lot.

[SuperParadox]

Don't forget to encounter her in a good mood and then proceed to beg. Beg  and cry your eyes out until she agrees. BV
Good luck!!~

Oh god that stuff works like mighty putty. My younger sister does it all the time to get what she wants and it has never failed her. At first mom gets angry and then suddenly she starts giving my sister kissy faces and then a brand new X in a few days.
Seriously though, don't do that.  It might have a reverse effect and just make you look plain stupid in front of your parents not to mention its and immature way of getting what you want in general.

But yea wait until shes in a good mood.

[Nekomata-chan]

Don't try the clich?d "Mum~ you know you love me~" opening.
Trust me, it doesn't work in these situations.

Ask for it at certain gift-giving milestones, such as birthdays or Christmas. If you're that desperate, make it the only thing you ask for on aforementioned milestones. That way, they must at least try to avoid disappointing you.

This has worked for me with several video games, consoles and other rather odd items I've asked for.

[Avan Nozomi]

Well, I've got good news! I approached her about it again and she seemed more receptive to the idea. I stressed that I'd pay for them all and that they really don't have any material she'd object to (much). Dad is 100% for this, and Mom says that she wants to see a few videos and study the series a little bit, as well as the site where I'm gonna order them (JBox), but otherwise, she's fine with me buying them.

[Nekomata-chan]

Congrats!! Which game(s) are you thinking of getting, by the way?

[Avan Nozomi]

Congrats!! Which game(s) are you thinking of getting, by the way?

It'll be after I get my new computer, but I'm probably going to get Mountain of Faith.

[Tengukami]

I'm probably going to get Mountain of Faith.

Heh, that was my first, too. A good starting point.

By the way, since mom wants to do "research", you might want to take the initiative of providing links to her yourself, in case she Googles "touhou" and finds Border of Extacy Uncensored or something.

[Paper Conan]

By the way, since mom wants to do "research", you might want to take the initiative of providing links to her yourself, in case she Googles "touhou" and finds Border of Extacy Uncensored or something.

Oh my god, this is the most important part. The amount of Touhou porn and other inappropriately horrifying material on the internet is infinite.
I would recommend showing her just some gameplay and a couple of classical remixes here and there.  u.u