Author Topic: Youkai hunting youkai  (Read 5312 times)

Youkai hunting youkai
« on: February 07, 2012, 01:47:03 AM »
As I recall, in Disgaea, humans who repeatedly kill demons eventually become demons themselves. I also seem to recall the same concept surfacing in another Japanese-made game, or perhaps an anime--I forget. Is this a Japanese mythological/cultural thing, or is it just the result of some people independently taking inspiration from a well-known Nietzsche quote? It certainly seems plausible that the combination of built-up impurity, exposure to high spiritual energy from repeated youkai killing, and the fear of others might result in some sort of change. If I'm not wrong, might we see a new character at some point with their species listed as "youkai hunter"? If she hasn't changed her ways since her transformation, she'd be very disruptive to life in Gensokyo. Or perhaps is this where Hong Meiling came from--a human martial artist who killed youkai until she became one herself? What do you think?

Re: Youkai hunting youkai
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2012, 01:53:56 AM »
If I recall, it's a piece of Japanese mythology/folklore that says a human that spills the blood of a thousand youkai (correct me if I'm wrong on this number) becomes a youkai themselves.

I assume that given the other bits of folklore ZUN's acknowledged in the Touhou setting, this is implicitly part of Gensokyo (even if it hasn't been officially stated), and that it'll be part of some character's story.

Re: Youkai hunting youkai
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2012, 03:36:22 AM »
If I recall, it has been mentioned that to Sanae in I believe some of the Hisoutensoku win quotes.  Possibly having a former youkai hunter turned youkai as either the final boss, extra boss (both of which can have her raging at what her fate was) or as a Stage 5 boss (she was in despair after transforming and the final boss helped her) could prove interesting.

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Re: Youkai hunting youkai
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2012, 08:04:02 AM »
Sanae is growing quite S as of recent, I feel like it will continue to be lightly touched on with her, but nothing serious.
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Darth_Sirov

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Re: Youkai hunting youkai
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2012, 11:15:34 AM »
I recall watching an anime called Saiyuki and one of the main characters did turn into a youkai after he killed over 1000 of them (as revenge for his wife getting killed). Though on that note, wouldn't this new youkai be very powerful? seeing that he/she has killed a lot of them and most of the time, youkais are normally stronger than humans.

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Re: Youkai hunting youkai
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2012, 05:27:26 PM »
I also recall that Sanae was warned about the possibility of becoming a youkai herself from too much youkai hunting. I think it was mentioned in UFO and Hisoutensoku. Possible ZUN plot-twist, anyone? (⌒-⌒; )

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Re: Youkai hunting youkai
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2012, 08:13:07 PM »
If I recall, it has been mentioned that to Sanae in I believe some of the Hisoutensoku win quotes.
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Hisoutensoku/Translation/Marisa%27s_Script#Marisa_wins_Sanae
Can't remember where in UFO it might have been mentioned, though.

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Re: Youkai hunting youkai
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2012, 08:35:48 PM »
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Hisoutensoku/Translation/Marisa%27s_Script#Marisa_wins_Sanae
Can't remember where in UFO it might have been mentioned, though.

Sanae A basically spends the entirety of UFO prattling on and on about how much fun it is to hunt youkai. Becoming a youkai herself, though, doesn't seem to be a concern of hers.

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Re: Youkai hunting youkai
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2012, 08:43:32 PM »
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Hisoutensoku/Translation/Marisa%27s_Script#Marisa_wins_Sanae
Can't remember where in UFO it might have been mentioned, though.
Given how many youkai Marisa herself attacks without evident worry, she's probably trolling. This doesn't automatically mean she's wrong though--she might have heard it, not believed it, and decided to troll Sanae with it.

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Re: Youkai hunting youkai
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2012, 08:47:11 PM »
Sanae A basically spends the entirety of UFO prattling on and on about how much fun it is to hunt youkai. Becoming a youkai herself, though, doesn't seem to be a concern of hers.
Ah, yes. I never give enough weight to SanaeA's story because I only ever played that game as SanaeB. Whoops!

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Re: Youkai hunting youkai
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2012, 09:23:26 PM »
If I recall, it has been mentioned that to Sanae in I believe some of the Hisoutensoku win quotes.  Possibly having a former youkai hunter turned youkai as either the final boss, extra boss (both of which can have her raging at what her fate was) or as a Stage 5 boss (she was in despair after transforming and the final boss helped her) could prove interesting.

If Yuyu-hakusho can be trusted, I remember Toguro mentioning that demon energy is weaker than human energy but feels better. So I suppose it could be possible that someone could become weaker by fighting too much youkai.

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Re: Youkai hunting youkai
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2012, 09:38:08 PM »
Ah, yes. I never give enough weight to SanaeA's story because I only ever played that game as SanaeB. Whoops!

Sanae B's story is more interesting anyway. Her two different scenarios in that game say a lot about her, and a lot about youkai hunting.

I used to hate Sanae. I thought she was annoying, strident, one-dimensional and callow. However, ZUN puts time into the backstories of his characters for a reason. Consider the fact that on the one hand, Sanae was born into being the descendant of a goddess, at a young age discovered she could create miracles, and very quickly ascended to de facto goddesshood herself upon entering Gensokyo - and that on the other hand, she is a young modern Japanese girl, born and raised in the outside world; someone who read magazines about UFOs, thinks that stories about youkai umbrellas are "old fashioned" and references 80s horror movies.

In other words, there's going to be arrogance, haughtiness, and contempt, but also a lot of normal young modern girl in there.

Sanae A and Sanae B show these two sides of her. Sanae A is mostly the powerful goddess of purification, faith, and fealty. Sanae B is mostly the goofy kid. There are aspects of her childishness in A and her power in B, but I think that's how it's laid out for the most part.

So it's very easy to sympathize with Sanae, even if you don't necessarily agree with all of her behavior - you understand why she's doing it. As you might expect, too, she does begin to grow up eventually. I think Ten Desires showed a more socially responsible Sanae. In her entire scenario, not once does she instigate a fight - she is merely investigating what's up with all these divine spirits, and each boss she meets attacks her; Sanae, on the other hand, never seeks a fight and at one point even declines an offer to fight. She fights all the same when challenged, of course, but Sanae's growing up.

Is she losing her edge as a youkai hunter? Maybe, but for what it's worth I think she's realizing that keeping the peace and maintaining plenty of faith for her Lady can be achieved through means other than pure youkai roid rage. She succeeds in Ten Desires through an approach of looking out for the well-being of Gensokyo (and of course, her faith) but only fighting if provoked. Not exactly the rip-roarin' "EXTERMINATE ALL YOUKAI!" Sanae of UFO.

Maybe she's not the BA youkai hunter she once was anymore, but I'm alright with that. It's interesting seeing a character grow and change over time.

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

Re: Youkai hunting youkai
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2012, 03:41:31 AM »
I offer a more interesting theory on Sanae's personality. She got beat by Cirno in Hisoutensoku, so she is moping about it.

Tengukami

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Re: Youkai hunting youkai
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2012, 11:53:56 AM »
I offer a more interesting theory on Sanae's personality. She got beat by Cirno in Hisoutensoku, so she is moping about it.

Somehow I doubt you're serious here, but hey - dismissiveness couched as humor is fine.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2012, 12:00:13 PM by Tengukami »

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

Re: Youkai hunting youkai
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2012, 07:31:23 AM »
No, not serious, just something fun to think about.

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Re: Youkai hunting youkai
« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2012, 01:57:29 PM »
If I recall, it's a piece of Japanese mythology/folklore that says a human that spills the blood of a thousand youkai (correct me if I'm wrong on this number) becomes a youkai themselves.

Speaking of Disgaea, if anyone remembers the character Priere, she became a demon overlord by slaying 1000 demons herself. And she used to be a nun.

Re: Youkai hunting youkai
« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2012, 06:58:30 AM »
Youkai don't get slain in Touhou, so I don't see how this is significant.

Re: Youkai hunting youkai
« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2012, 07:24:58 AM »
Youkai don't get slain in Touhou, so I don't see how this is significant.
Well, they rarely die permanently now (although it's still possible outside a spellcard duel; we know that the rules aren't always followed with respect to human killings so it probably occasionally goes the other way). Obviously most or all of the killings would have had to be done outside and/or in the past or else Gensokyo would suffer serious population depletion and unprecedented serious affair. Unless fairies being 'killed' counts, which I doubt seeing as how Reimu and/or Marisa would have become a youkai by now if that were the case. Although Reimu falling afoul of a little known fairy corollary to the youkai-slayer's ironic fate would be pretty funny--after resolving the latest incident, she feels a strange urge to prank the stage 6 boss, who comments on her wings...

Re: Youkai hunting youkai
« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2012, 10:22:50 PM »
Reimu as a fairy...that would be hilarious after all the irritation she's gotten from fairy pranks in the past.