This is my 10th time dying on Flandre

[Vibri]

Don't most extra bosses turn stupid if you try to time out their final attacks? I know BoLaD and Grudge Bow definitely do, and I think QED does too. I dunno how they compare to Gengetsu cuz lol who cares about PC98 but it's not like it's the only attack with a timeout phase.
Anyways, if you're counting dumb stuff nobody ever does when ranking difficulty, you may as well consider novert and pacifist and whatever else too. Sky's the limit!!

[Esper]

lol who cares about PC98

A lot of people do, if they were willing to bitch about Mima not being in UFO or TD. They also bitched about Shinki not being in UFO, and Devil's Recitation didn't help that factor at all. Gengetsu Rape Time is a famous phase in Touhou 4's Extra Stage. Bad Apple was based on Touhou 4's third stage theme, which was named "Bad Apple!!" as well, and you know how many fans worship that song to no fucking end. Hell, someone even made a remake of Story of Eastern Wonderland.

So yeah, quite a few people. Also, "dumb stuff nobody ever does"? I'd beg to differ. A lot of people do pacifist runs of the Touhou series. Quite a few people try No Vertical Runs.

But really, "I dunno how they compare to Gengetsu cuz lol who cares about PC98"? That makes no sense at all. Bosses in PC98 are just as hard as the Windows Series.

[Sakurei]

Kanako has ONE difficult attack on lunatic, and only because you can't bomb through it.  I blindly no deathed my way to VoWG on my first time facing her on lunatic, and capturing VoWG lunatic took me about 10 tries of going for it.  Kanako is not that difficult.
Remilia is.
Kaguya definitely is, although I've expended 1 bomb, 1 life and 1 more bomb to beat her once (yes, lunatic-with Magic Team!)

I find her first non-spellcard very troubling, as well as I suck at source of rains. sorry for not being you, but I am judging on personal experience so far and I found kanako to be very difficult to other lunatic bosses I have faced so far. I am also prone messing up yamato torus. and THEN comes VoWG, which I never even came close to capture. yes, you get the picture, I am not a player quite up to lunatic difficulty, because sometimes, because have to practice before being able to 1cc stuff on  a new level.

[Yukari-Chan]

I find Kanako's first nonspell troubling as well. She shoots a shitload of fast bullets at you with limited space.

[MTSranger]

Don't most extra bosses turn stupid if you try to time out their final attacks? I know BoLaD and Grudge Bow definitely do, and I think QED does too. I dunno how they compare to Gengetsu cuz lol who cares about PC98 but it's not like it's the only attack with a timeout phase.
Anyways, if you're counting dumb stuff nobody ever does when ranking difficulty, you may as well consider novert and pacifist and whatever else too. Sky's the limit!!

I think Gengetsu still has the hardest attack even if you count all the other timeout phases.
It's the only truely impossible one (or should I say, the one requiring the most slowdown to capture).
2nd tier (all really bad): QED, BoLaD, Grudge Bow
3rd tier: Izuna Gongen (safespot ftw), Hourai Doll, Mishaguji-sama, Subterranean Rose (310 seconds of boredom :V)

PC-98 has its own unique difficulty though.
I find a lot of the stuff harder than Windows games, even if people say they are easier.
Plus, reading bullets in those harsh high-contrast backgrounds quickly makes my eyes mush.

I find her first non-spellcard very troubling, as well as I suck at source of rains. sorry for not being you, but I am judging on personal experience so far and I found kanako to be very difficult to other lunatic bosses I have faced so far. I am also prone messing up yamato torus. and THEN comes VoWG, which I never even came close to capture. yes, you get the picture, I am not a player quite up to lunatic difficulty, because sometimes, because have to practice before being able to 1cc stuff on  a new level.

Maybe you should try to play Remilia or Byakuren or even Kaguya. Have you really tried to play them? Captured their cards?
My spell history on Scarlet Meister and Scarlet Gensokyo are around 0/550 :V
I've timed out VoWG lunatic and perfected Kanako. The same can't be said for Remilia, for whom I have much more experience with.

I find Kanako's first nonspell troubling as well. She shoots a shitload of fast bullets at you with limited space.

I find Kanako's first nonspell can be captured if I just concentrate hard enough to read.
It's not easy though, and I think it's one of her harder attacks.

[Yukari-Chan]

I find Kanako's first nonspell can be captured if I just concentrate hard enough to read.
It's not easy though, and I think it's one of her harder attacks.

I find her 5th card easier then easy mode. My first game was MoF and when I got there to the last card( Easy modo ), I was like, "WTF? This goes on hard mode or something! *Dies* DARNIT! "

[チソウ タイゼン]

Yukari didn't feel so easy when I first got to clear her

I've beaten Ran, Yukari, Suwako.
For the others, my farthest progress is Counter Clock, Possessed by Phoenix, Subterranean Rose, and Green UFO Invasion. (And I don't have TH13 yet.)

Wow, I'm more terrible than I thought at these games :V

But yeah Flandre is difficult as shit and poor resource handling (thanks Patchy) certainly makes things more of a mess.

I don't care if Royal Flare is static. It kills me to death.
And Philosopher's Stone is a hit-or-miss.

Are there seriously only two extends in the stage? That's my question...

[Yukari-Chan]

Are there seriously only two extends in the stage? That's my question...

Two extends only suck. I have a feeling ZUN is trolling us.

[Zil]

I think that when taking a boss into account, you should look at every of her aspects, which is why I included gengetsu's rape time. and well, you cannot deny that it's by far the hardest thing ever in touhou :s

I think Sariel and Yumemi would like a word with you. >=P

[チソウ タイゼン]

@Rei

I think there are only two extends in TH10 extra as well.
But there's like five in TH7.
If I recall correctly, TH8 has four extends and TH11 has a potiental, what, five or six?
TH12 is weird, but I've only gotten two extends out of it maximum as well.


will someone please get over here and correct me

[Yukari-Chan]

Th12 depends on the UFOs. I think the maximum is 3.

[Elysia]

I can attest that 3 extends in MoF extra is pretty easily doable. I don't know if 4 is possible, I'm no scorerunner, but I doubt it.

[チソウ タイゼン]

Ah, shit, I forgot about score-based extends.
I've gotten as high as 100m in TH06 Extra and never got one.

If I recall correctly, the TH10 Extra grants extends at 20, 80, and 150.
And then Kanako drops one. I thought Suwako dropped one somewhere, but I doubt it now.

[AJS]

If we're talking about patterns alone, I think Yukari's considerably tougher than Flandre.  One of the reasons being that her nonspells, though most of them are streaming, are at least slightly more challenging than Flandre's nonspells, all of which except the last are a total joke.  But when you bring resources into the game, Yukari is quite easier than Flandre.  Two 1ups, potential for shitloads of point-based extends, and an extra bomb or two if I'm not mistaken, give the player tons of opportunities to last until the end of the Yukari battle.  It's a bit justified, considering how she's tougher, but a good player can end the battle with pretty much a full stock of lives, providing for a MASSIVE margin of error if you're skilled.  For Flandre, however, you only get two extends, THAT'S IT (also, I consider Patchy to be one of the toughest EX midbosses).  This provides for a much smaller margin of error than Yukari, but several of her patterns, and most of her nonspells, become jokes once you understand them.

On a side note, provided that you don't die much, SA Extra can be quite generous with life pieces.

[I have no name]

(don't feel like quoting posts or parts of posts)
Breakdown of extra lives in extra stages:
EoSD: 2, midboss and right before boss
PCB: 5, midboss, boss after first spell and 3 for point items (200, 500, 800)
IN: 4, midboss, right before boss and 2 for point items (200, 666)
PoFV: potentially infinite, every 5,000,000 points
MoF: 3, midboss and 2 for score (30 million and 100 million)
SA: 3 (or 4, but then you don't need it) off life pieces (4 is if you don't die to Sanae or Koishi until Subterranean Rose)
UFO: 2-4 (midboss, boss, 0-2 off of UFOs)
GFW: depends on how much you freeze, but a ton.
TD: 2-3 (depends on trance placements-but 2 is a freebie)

On Kanako, I bomb almost everythign she has in actual runs, but in stage practice I reliably get her 1st spell, 2nd nonspell, 2nd spell, 3rd nonspell and 4th nonspell.  Her 1st nonspell, 4th spell and 5th spells are autobombs.  3rd spells is bomb if I feel trapped.  She's not the easiest to avoid, but to survive, she is very easy to survive against aside from VoWG, which gets hard to dodge halfway through.
For Kaguya, I figured out a tactic for her opener to make it easier, but her first spell is autobomb or death.  beyond that, I bomb if I feel i need to-said 1 death lunatic Kaguya had no bombs from after BDB all the way to Life Spring Infinity.
On Remilia, most of her stuff is straight of dodging, no gimmicks.  I've always been good at that, so I don't mind her to be that hard (still hard though, but not the hardest)
Lunatic Byakuren is no just no.

[チソウ タイゼン]

^Ah, thank you.

@AJS You're forgetting about the Supernatural Border :V

[Sakurei]

I believe there are more than just 4 lives for UFO extra. I can already get 1 extend before even facing kogasa. and seeing how she and nue both give you 1 more extend, I find it hard to believe that all you can get is 2 more red UFOs. I'd say at least 5, if you are really milking the red ones. I never really checked, but if you "skillfully" mix multi-colored UFOs inbetween the red ones to get more red pieces, it should be doable to get 5 extends...

as for lunatic bosses: iI was asked whether I fought remi and kaguya and yes, I do and did.

I was always alittle more proficient at EoSD, I don't know why. aside from lunatic, my first everything was in EoSD: first normal 11c, first hard 1cc, first extra clear. so it may just be me, but I find it easier to fight remilia than most people apparently do.

as for kaguya: I hate IN for the resond of marisa and I am not too fond of reisen either, but I can handle kaguya somewhat well. she is not easy, by no means and hourai jewel is a horrid streaming spell, but she just feels less tough than kanako does.

[Marisa Kirisame]

Boundary of Humans and Youkai vs. Kokkuri-sans Contract: 0 captures versus 3 captures, 1 of which was done no focus.  Advantage Yukari
Boundary of Life and Death vs. Descent of Izuna Gongen: 0 captures versus 3 or 4 captures and I'm basically 100%. Advantage Yukari.

This is why Ran is easier, even if Charming Siege is harder.  It's nice to have my hardest part come earlier in the boss then, I don't know, FOR 2 WHOLE MINUTES 8 INTO THE STAGE

Also, on Flandre...hardest part to perfect is QED, and also the 7th and 9th spells.  and 6th and 1st I guess.  and 4th can be wall.

I know what you mean about Yukari. Ran causes me few issues aside from some faulty positioning on Charming Siege and I beat her with ease. Yukari on the other hand I have only beaten once and I got REALLY LUCKY simply because I had no lives and was just short of gaining on headed into Life and Death.

Flans spell cause me little problems (except the standard Maze of love, which I really need to practice capping for the sake of capping.). Should you have problems with any other spells on flandre, save for Q.E.D., ask and I can help you cap them. You've helped me enough with other things that it is the least I can do.

[MTSranger]

I believe there are more than just 4 lives for UFO extra. I can already get 1 extend before even facing kogasa. and seeing how she and nue both give you 1 more extend, I find it hard to believe that all you can get is 2 more red UFOs. I'd say at least 5, if you are really milking the red ones. I never really checked, but if you "skillfully" mix multi-colored UFOs inbetween the red ones to get more red pieces, it should be doable to get 5 extends...

as for lunatic bosses: iI was asked whether I fought remi and kaguya and yes, I do and did.

I was always alittle more proficient at EoSD, I don't know why. aside from lunatic, my first everything was in EoSD: first normal 11c, first hard 1cc, first extra clear. so it may just be me, but I find it easier to fight remilia than most people apparently do.

as for kaguya: I hate IN for the resond of marisa and I am not too fond of reisen either, but I can handle kaguya somewhat well. she is not easy, by no means and hourai jewel is a horrid streaming spell, but she just feels less tough than kanako does.

To get 4 extends, you need 2 extends outside Kogasa/Nue, which means 4 red UFOs. I've done that before.
If you want 5 extends, that's 6 red UFOs. You will need 13 red UFO tokens.
Since there are only 8 red UFO tokens available (counting multi-colors), you will need to summon 5 rainbow UFOs.
I would say it's damn difficult. Summoning 11 UFOs in the stage, in that combination.
There are long sections where only blue and greens are dropped.

Oh, and we are saying, though, on lunatic, Remillia and Kaguya are quite a bit harder than Kanako.
That might not be the case on normal or even hard mode (I can captured Scarlet Gensokyo without too much difficulty in hard).
I mean just simply wait until you get to the level where you can capture VoWG and still get destroyed by Scarlet Meister.
My first game was EoSD. I've been playing EoSD for 2 years, 1cc'd the lunatic long time ago. Still. Can't. Do. It.

And, btw, you can't say the boss isn't difficult because you can survive a long time by bombing everything. :V
When we talk about the difficulty of a normal game boss, it's not about the difficulty of simply clearing cuz you can always bring 6 lives with you and raze your way through. We are talking about the difficulty of actually dodging all the stuff.

[MMX]

Flame nonsense thread! I'm posting in it :V

After giving up clearing EoSD extra with Marisa A, i've tried it with Reimu B and succeeded. That was an awfull run, i've captured only 4 spells: Silent Selene, Cranberry Trap, Laevatein and QED lol. The last one was like: "oh shi-- i'm 0/0 and got nothing to do but capture this shit!" Since that time i dont even bother to try to clear EoSD extra again

And yeah. 10 times is just a beginning. I cant remember how much tries in total i spent on Flandre till i beat her. Maybe around hundred.

[Yukari-Chan]

I find Ran, Yukari, and Suwako easier than her. Koishi is almost as mind-raping as her and Nue justs spams loads of shit at you.