This is my 10th time dying on Flandre

[Yukari-Chan]

I swear to God, she is harder than Yukari yakumo. DAMNIT FLANDRE! Why must you split into four! And Patchy,YOUR NOT HELPING EITHER! Any tips are appreciated.

[Skyler]

Which parts are you having trouble with? I suck at Ex Patchouli too so I can't really help you there, but if you give some details then maybe I can help you a bit.
I find Flandre harder than Yukari as well.

[Yukari-Chan]

Maze of Love,  And then there will be none,  Ripples of 495 years. They should make Flandre the Phantasm boss for the next Touhou given her insane difficulty.

[Elysia]

Help thread here.

In general I strongly recommend using the hitbox patch if you aren't already, that's probably half the reason I don't suck at EoSD.

If you're having trouble with Patchy, I would recommend practicing Silent Selene until you get it. Stay in the bottom, watch where the lighter bullets are going, and try to stay completely out of their way. That's probably the easiest card unless you're playing MarisaA since she laughs at Royal Flare (as shown in this video). Speaking of that, that may be a reason to use MarisaA if you aren't already; EoSD doesn't give Reimu a smaller hitbox unlike later games.

Maze of Love: I find it easier to just stay in the bottom and micrododge between the tiny openings. If nothing else, it ends the card much faster.

ATTWBN: Try and dodge slowly around the whole screen for the first phase (I start by aiming the first stream a little left of bottom center, then going slowly counterclockwise from there) and then micrododge what's left behind. Second phase is completely static memorization; the red balls are by far the hardest, so don't hesitate to bomb those. Replay in which I capture the card, if it'll help.

QED: I typically take the earliest opportunity to dodge each individual circle, then move on to the next one. Don't worry if you can't capture this, that's pretty normal. Just remember that it's the last card; a 0/0 clear is a million times better than a 0/3 miss.

[edited for formatting fail]

[Yukari-Chan]

The Hitbox Patch? Can you link me too the patch if it's okay with you?

Never thought about doing that. I use Marisa A so yeah. I figured out a safe spot for Starbow breaker.  Anyways, thanks for the tips. I'll try it and see. I just have to make sure I don't screw up with the fairies.

[Zil]

Actually I'd recommend Reimu over Marisa. The firepower difference isn't too great, the weak bomb is irrelevent, and her speed is easier to manage, which is a big factor on the three cards you mentioned. Also it's normal to find Flan harder than Yukari. The label of "Phantasm" is pretty stupid, since Yukari is easier than most Extra bosses. :derp:

And yeah, the help thread would be a good place to ask about particular spells. I'm assuming there are more things that get you than just those three.

[Yukari-Chan]

I agree with that. Personally, I'm making a Yukari boss that is harder than the original. I think Flan could be labeled as Phantasm though.

[Agent of the BSoD]

Flandre is indeed hard. I cleared Ran and Yukari before I got her down. Maze of Love was the spell that stopped my runs for the longest time, till I learned that I can just micro dodge at the bottom. Yukari seems much easier than Flandre, and actually, for some of her spells, is easier than Ran, though she does have some harder ones.

[Esper]

Also it's normal to find Flan harder than Yukari. The label of "Phantasm" is pretty stupid, since Yukari is easier than most Extra bosses. :derp:

FUCK I THOUGHT I ACHIEVED SOMETHING BEFORE

Serious mode: Yeah, I hate those cards too. I keep dying on Maze of Love because Marisa's a prick that likes to either 1. Run into walls, or 2. Somehow STILL go slower than the Fast Wall Bullets. Reimu's worse, you HAVE to resort to the unintentional method with her. Reimu is NOT easier to manage. If she were easier to manage, I would have 1cc'd Touhou 6 with HER, not Marisa. Marisa's speed may be a little too high but since it's good for scoring runs, it's also good for hoarding lives by scoring and THEN stop risking your shit and GO GO GO.

[I have no name]

FUCK I THOUGHT I ACHIEVED SOMETHING BEFORE

Serious mode: Yeah, I hate those cards too. I keep dying on Maze of Love because Marisa's a prick that likes to either 1. Run into walls, or 2. Somehow STILL go slower than the Fast Wall Bullets. Reimu's worse, you HAVE to resort to the unintentional method with her. Reimu is NOT easier to manage. If she were easier to manage, I would have 1cc'd Touhou 6 with HER, not Marisa. Marisa's speed may be a little too high but since it's good for scoring runs, it's also good for hoarding lives by scoring and THEN stop risking your shit and GO GO GO.

Rebuttal: I capture Maze of Love every time the intended method with Reimu, and most of the time with Marisa.  I still suggest Marisa though for a first clear of the stage.

[BT]

Do MoL the right way. After a few attempts, you'll cap it. After you cap it, it's hard to stop capping it, unless you're distracted or something.

Flandre is harder than Yukari. Didn't stop me from beating her first, though. :V

[Zil]

I'm pretty sure it's inconceivable to not get every available extend before the end of the game, so there's no reason to play for score. At least, the kind of score playing needed to get more lives than you normally would probably calls for suicides and stuff anyway.
Also, a lack of speed shouldn't be killing you on the maze. It's more about accuracy. If you can't keep up with it then you're too far away. The tighter the circles you can do around Flandre, the easier the spell is, which is why it's harder with Marisa. She actually moves too fast. The speed also does you no favors on anything with micrododging: Starbow, QED, Kagome, etc. I know I found it much easier with Reimu for my first clear. (And I still find her easier now.)

And another thing, if you bomb right at the end of ATWTBN, the bomb will damage QED, so you may as well put Marisa's bomb to use I guess.

[I have no name]

I'm pretty sure it's inconceivable to not get every available extend before the end of the game, so there's no reason to play for score. At least, the kind of score playing needed to get more lives than you normally would probably calls for suicides and stuff anyway.

EoSD has only 4 lives available for score, and there are no score extends in the extra stage.
Also, when I'm playing normally any decent survival run gets to 60,000,000 points, the final extend.  Of course no vertical normal I missed the last extend  :V

[K.B.]

There's only one tricky part in Maze if you micrododge at the bottom and stay on target, so you can consistently clear it with one bomb/death even if you're not too good or comfortable with tapping only a couple/three pixels at a time.  That's how I did it when I was learning, anyway.

Also, am I the only person who said 'pffft f- this i'm staying at the bottom' from the very first time seeing the card?

And go into QED with an extra life.  If you're having trouble with EX overall then you're almost certainly going to need some wild luckshit to win if you have anything less than that.  That said, for that card, applying one of the general rules of dodging is critical: make it so you have to dodge the least number of bullets at any given time.

In general I strongly recommend using the hitbox patch

Eww.

You're recommending the wrong hitbox patch.

[Yukari-Chan]

I keep messing up at Royal Flare. By one little position >.>! But, overall, I can dodge most Flandre's spells. I've improved a bit and messed up at the last part >.>! There results my  end of lifes.

[Sakurei]

I don't think losing against an Ex-boss 10 times is that bad. it took me several months to defeat koishi (yes, THAT koishi. the "I have almost only fixed the same pattern" koishi). and in those months, I played more than a hundred times (known through spellcard counter ), that is why you shouldn't feel bad or aggressive about losing.

I find myze of love to be very difficult myself, just as Q.E.D. I can totally relate and that is why I say: don't give up, keep trying, no matter how long it takes.

Also, a lack of speed shouldn't be killing you on the maze. It's more about accuracy. If you can't keep up with it then you're too far away. The tighter the circles you can do around Flandre, the easier the spell is, which is why it's harder with Marisa. She actually moves too fast.

I beg to differ. to my experience and knowledge, marisa is just fast enough to move in a small circle while focusing, which makes the whole card a lot easier, if you decide to take that roundabout way of dealing with it. but it's true that it doesn't really help against most other cards.

[AJS]

Flandre is harder than Yukari.

Ehh, it's all subjective really, cuz I think it's the other way around. :derp:

But that's besides the point.  Dying ten times to Flandre isn't that big a deal, really.  It took me two months to beat her after I first unlocked her.  Just keep trying, and study Youtube videos for help with technique.  That's what I did, and I took her down eventually.

[Agent of the BSoD]

Ehh, it's all subjective really, cuz I think it's the other way around. :derp:

But that's besides the point.  Dying ten times to Flandre isn't that big a deal, really.  It took me two months to beat her after I first unlocked her.  Just keep trying, and study Youtube videos for help with technique.  That's what I did, and I took her down eventually.

EoSD was the first Touhou I got, and didn't have any experience with this type of game. I unlocked Extra late July, and beat Flandre in late March the following year. :derp: Though this was even before I made a hard clear of the game. I'm sure at my skill level I could do much better against her now, but TBH, I haven't played that extra stage since I beat it.

And I swear, Yukari is easier. I cleared her many times before I cleared Flandre, and I worked on Flandre first. :V Yukari only took a few attempts, easily less than 10 IIRC. Flandre, on the other hand, probably took easily more than 70 or so, not joking.

[I have no name]

Yukari is harder to dodge than Flandre.
Flandre is harder to beat due to less resources, although tbh they're both jokes for me now.

[Zodiac]

Ran is harder to perfect than Yukari in my opinion .  . . because

Spoiler:

CHARMING SIEGE!

Spoiler:

[Yukari-Chan]

Yukari's version of Charming Siege is much  easier do to more space. Ran shoots a shitload of bullets with slow speed that take forever, and FUCKING LOW SPACE!

[I have no name]

Ran is harder to perfect than Yukari in my opinion .  . . because

Spoiler:

CHARMING SIEGE!

Spoiler:

Boundary of Humans and Youkai vs. Kokkuri-sans Contract: 0 captures versus 3 captures, 1 of which was done no focus.  Advantage Yukari
Boundary of Life and Death vs. Descent of Izuna Gongen: 0 captures versus 3 or 4 captures and I'm basically 100%. Advantage Yukari.

This is why Ran is easier, even if Charming Siege is harder.  It's nice to have my hardest part come earlier in the boss then, I don't know, FOR 2 WHOLE MINUTES 8 INTO THE STAGE

Also, on Flandre...hardest part to perfect is QED, and also the 7th and 9th spells.  and 6th and 1st I guess.  and 4th can be wall.

[Sakurei]

Also, on Flandre...hardest part to perfect is QED, and also the 7th and 9th spells.  and 6th and 1st I guess.  and 4th can be wall.

I beg to differ.

her 7th spell, Catadioptric, is actually one of her easier spells. it might be that there'S a stray bullet occasionally to easily hit, but that's really all you have to look out for.

and then there were none is tricky - in the beginning. it's just a matter of not walling yourself with the bullets following you, because everything else  is totally static.

starbow break, der 6th spell, can indeed be difficult, but it generally is just an average spellcard in terms of difficulty. unless your are clinging onto the bottom, it shouldn't be as hard as many make it out to be.

cranberry trap is a joke. sorry, but the purple bullets are static, and it is not difficult to manipulate the blue ones into a more harmless direction. it's difficult to fail it once you practiced it for a bit.

as for kagome, kagome: yep, parts can become a wall, but it's not like "wall" means undodgeable, and even if it is, it's not like there's an undodgable wall across the whole screen.

Flandre is an easy boss aside from Q.E.D, but it's natural to have problems with her when she's first unlocked, as it is with every extra boss, unless you are experienced (as in, clear lunatic on regular basis), but she's overall one of the easier extra bosses, I suppose and if not, she's only average, somewhere in the middle. once you have her down, it's not very difficult to beat her

[Zil]

but she's overall one of the easier extra bosses, I suppose and if not, she's only average, somewhere in the middle. once you have her down, it's not very difficult to beat her

I think she's actually the second hardest to be honest. Only Alice is harder. That fact of it is that all of these bosses can start off kinda tough, but they always rely heavily on static "trick" attacks for some reason, so they become very easy with practice. Flandre is probably the most random, so she retains a shred of difficulty. QED is one of the hardest spells an EX boss has, after all. Though you're right about Cranberry. That's gotta be her easiest spell.

[MTSranger]

Agreed, Flandre's hardest part is a) low resources and b) QED (especially hard with Marisa)
I don't think Kagome Kagome walls often. I mean, you can always misdirect the aimed bubbles, or simply move around it.
Cranberry Trap can be easily memorized - and once you've got a route, it's 100% capture.
Starbow Break - Marisa has a harder time with it, cuz due to stupid movement speed, she can't rly dodge in tight gaps.
I've died to attwbn on the last second before - it's not exactly that trivial.

[Sakurei]

I think she's actually the second hardest to be honest. Only Alice is harder. That fact of it is that all of these bosses can start off kinda tough, but they always rely heavily on static "trick" attacks for some reason, so they become very easy with practice. Flandre is probably the most random, so she retains a shred of difficulty. QED is one of the hardest spells an EX boss has, after all. Though you're right about Cranberry. That's gotta be her easiest spell.

I don't feel her as difficult as that. I find at least nue and mokou more difficult than Flandre, and gengetsu still has to most difficult spell in all touhou (gengetsu's rape time. if you don't know it, google). I admit that I didn't do many pc-98, but I can assure you that gengetsu's harder than Flandre. and one difficult spell doesn't make her a dangerous boss. if you have like 2 lives left, you ca easily do it, even with subpar skills, because the other cards are relatively easy.

for attwn and it's last 2 seconds or so: yes, the screen gets full, but if you can capture starbow break, you can get this, too, because it's only dodging tight gaps (into the middle, not closer to the frame). I think you need to doge one green ring and a red one in that time, then you are save. and it's really not that much more difficult that dodging a tighter gap in starbow break, imo.

you ever thought about why you have low resources? because she is so easy. imagine you'd get as many lives as in IN or PCB extra. she'd be a joke boss like that similar to kaguya.

[I have no name]

LLS extra I almost cleared mostly blind, failed to the final attack-and the 'rape time' is the timeout phase, which I didn't reach.

and I know Cranberry Trap can be memorized, but I still suck at it-even with a path.
Catadioptric is also pretty doable, but I'm prone to screwing it up.  A lot.
Same for the survival.
and Starbow Break.
and Kagome Kagome.

Flandre is the extra boss I'm the most likely to screw up and not beat due to stupidity, followed by Koishi and Nue.

[Zil]

I don't feel her as difficult as that. I find at least nue and mokou more difficult than Flandre, and gengetsu still has to most difficult spell in all touhou (gengetsu's rape time. if you don't know it, google). I admit that I didn't do many pc-98, but I can assure you that gengetsu's harder than Flandre. and one difficult spell doesn't make her a dangerous boss. if you have like 2 lives left, you ca easily do it, even with subpar skills, because the other cards are relatively easy.

for attwn and it's last 2 seconds or so: yes, the screen gets full, but if you can capture starbow break, you can get this, too, because it's only dodging tight gaps (into the middle, not closer to the frame). I think you need to doge one green ring and a red one in that time, then you are save. and it's really not that much more difficult that dodging a tighter gap in starbow break, imo.

you ever thought about why you have low resources? because she is so easy. imagine you'd get as many lives as in IN or PCB extra. she'd be a joke boss like that similar to kaguya.

Are you sure YOU know what Gengtsu rape time is? As No Name said, it's the timeout phase, which you would never normally have to fight. Ordinarily it's just a pretty mild spell, and the rest of her spells are dementedly easy so she's by far and away the easiest extra boss in the series (yes I've fought them all). And despite the easiness of Gengetsu, Mokou is generally held to be the easiest, so I don't see why you think she's harder. She actually has only one spell that takes any dodging, eveything else is memotrash.  And the low resources on Flan are a source of difficulty, not an indicator of the bosses weakness. And how is Kaguya a joke boss? She's up there with Remilia and Byakuren I'd say. On Lunatic at least.

EDIT: Sorry if I came across as a knumscrut. I was raging for an unrelated reason. But yeah, when you've played them all a lot, they all become wicked easy, but Flan the least easy. Certainly practice Mokou and you'll see what I mean. She's considered the easiest for good reason.

[Sakurei]

Are you sure YOU know what Gengtsu rape time is? As No Name said, it's the timeout phase, which you would never normally have to fight. Ordinarily it's just a pretty mild spell, and the rest of her spells are dementedly easy so she's by far and away the easiest extra boss in the series (yes I've fought them all). And despite the easiness of Gengetsu, Mokou is generally held to be the easiest, so I don't see why you think she's harder. She actually has only one spell that takes any dodging, eveything else is memotrash.  And the low resources on Flan are a source of difficulty, not an indicator of the bosses weakness. And how is Kaguya a joke boss? She's up there with Remilia and Byakuren I'd say. On Lunatic at least.

I think that when taking a boss into account, you should look at every of her aspects, which is why I included gengetsu's rape time. and well, you cannot deny that it's by far the hardest thing ever in touhou :s

I find mokou difficult, very much so. she has one of the hardest non-spells in the whole series, fujiyama volcano is generally accepted as a very difficult spell, and I have seen many many people who have trouble with her timeout spell for several reasons.

yes, but the amount of resources you get are an indicator of how strong the boss is. I think that if she was on a higher level, then we'd have gotten at least one more life somewhere in the stage, as to keep the extra stage and its boss on a "around hard" level, which is what extra stages are. of course having less lives and bombs makes a stage harder, but in retrospect, it also shows that you don't really need more as an averange (or little above) player to beat the stage. I believe that you get as many resources as you need to win an extra stage when you are somewhere between normal and hard, which is why you only have 5 lives altogther in EoSD. the only exception is SA, because the life giving system is very...default.

as for kaguya: yep, she's hard as crazy on lunatic, but you see, not very many people play her on lunatic. most people are around normal and therefore fight kaguya on normal, in which case, she really is a joke. the difficulty jump from hard to lunatic is very steep in her case, moreso than for other bosses, in my opinion, with the possible exception of kanako (who I find to be among the most difficult stage 6 bosses on lunatic, but that'S another story).

another extra boss who is definitely harder than Flan is marisa. GFW might not be a main game, but it's still a regular shooter with merely a special gimmick, after all. I suppose thinking about marisa makes me want to take back what I said about gengetsu for being the hardest, but I'll leave it at that.

[I have no name]

I think that when taking a boss into account, you should look at every of her aspects, which is why I included gengetsu's rape time. and well, you cannot deny that it's by far the hardest thing ever in touhou :s

Do you ever face a final spell timeout phase in actual 1cc runs?  Yes, it's probably the hardest thing: but you don't face it (unless you pacifist) for a reason.

with the possible exception of kanako (who I find to be among the most difficult stage 6 bosses on lunatic).

kanako

What.
Kanako has ONE difficult attack on lunatic, and only because you can't bomb through it.  I blindly no deathed my way to VoWG on my first time facing her on lunatic, and capturing VoWG lunatic took me about 10 tries of going for it.  Kanako is not that difficult.
Remilia is.
Kaguya definitely is, although I've expended 1 bomb, 1 life and 1 more bomb to beat her once (yes, lunatic-with Magic Team!)