Author Topic: The tragedy of long life  (Read 13920 times)

Drake

  • *
Re: The tragedy of long life
« Reply #30 on: December 05, 2011, 02:11:13 AM »
It's entirely possible Sakuya's time-based abilities come from her pocketwatch.
Also, as mentioned, "You've been with us so long that it doesn't seem fitting to call you human" seems to blatantly make note that Sakuya's been alive much longer than she seems to have been. The immediate next line, also, implies that the next in line to serve can be trained to do so. Not necessarily that time powers come with it, but it's a probability. If Sakuya were simply a human she probably wouldn't innately have such powers, either. But that's all speculation, I suppose.

I'm still of the belief that Marisa is gradually succeeding in her attempts, otherwise the whole point of making her "want to become long-lived" would be, narratively, redundant. She has to be succeeding at some level or else it would just be silly. Likewise, as there probably will never be a definitive end to Touhou, Marisa will also never achieve that goal within the span of the series. At (narratively) best, a work will pop up in the future, describing a future, where Marisa has indeed succeeded. At best best, it would be a passing mention of almost nothing. But if were to happen within the series it would be kind of lame.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2011, 02:17:06 AM by Drake »

A Colorful Calculating Creative and Cuddly Crafty Callipygous Clever Commander
- original art by Aiけん | ウサホリ -

Helepolis

  • Charisma!
  • *
  • O-ojousama!?
Re: The tragedy of long life
« Reply #31 on: December 05, 2011, 09:41:23 AM »
But if were to happen within the series it would be kind of lame.
It would be lame indeed. ZUN isn't going to make Marisa turn youkai at some point and cause an incident which requires ass kicking. We already had that in the PC98 series and IN. And Fairy Wars if that counts.

Also we know that none of the "bad girls" die in the series, though would be good fanfic materials for the library fanboys/girls.


Sality

Re: The tragedy of long life
« Reply #32 on: December 05, 2011, 12:25:59 PM »
Also we know that none of the "bad girls" die in the series

That is, if "bad" girl exists in touhou  ;)

Helepolis

  • Charisma!
  • *
  • O-ojousama!?
Re: The tragedy of long life
« Reply #33 on: December 05, 2011, 01:39:50 PM »
That is, if "bad" girl exists in touhou  ;)
Obviously they do, which is why we play Touhou.

Re: The tragedy of long life
« Reply #34 on: December 05, 2011, 01:59:04 PM »
Surprised nobody's mentioned this one yet.
About the ending... just ignore it and enjoy the rest of the comic.

Edit: Wow, that's rare, I never expected people to actually appreciate the ending, everyone I ever linked that comic to before raged about it. Guess I underestimated the awesomeness of this particular community :derp:
« Last Edit: December 05, 2011, 05:09:41 PM by Remilius »

Vyrien

  • Your maiden walls
  • *
  • ...heheheheh
Re: The tragedy of long life
« Reply #35 on: December 05, 2011, 04:06:02 PM »
Surprised nobody's mentioned this one yet.
About the ending... just ignore it and enjoy the rest of the comic.

The ending was awesome, I was in buckets of tears from the main story and then the ending happened and I raged but then laughed. :V
Congregation of Impertinent Drama Queens.


Art threadLivestream | Pixiv

Re: The tragedy of long life
« Reply #36 on: December 05, 2011, 05:03:22 PM »
Surprised nobody's mentioned this one yet.
About the ending... just ignore it and enjoy the rest of the comic.
Spoilers for the comic linked.
Spoiler:
The ending is the reason why Touhou is so good. It makes it feel more real than if it was just a sad story. With just a sad
story, I felt like, I am not reading Touhou, but an alternate fake Touhou universe. I would have just deleted the images, instead of
keeping it, if not for the ending.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2011, 05:05:26 PM by Starxsword »

Zap

  • Embodiment of Lightning
  • Shocking, isn't it?
Re: The tragedy of long life
« Reply #37 on: December 05, 2011, 11:01:14 PM »
Surprised nobody's mentioned this one yet.
About the ending... just ignore it and enjoy the rest of the comic.
Spoiler reaction:
Spoiler:
Ok, I know I was trolled there. But I couldn't stop laughing!  :D
To tell you the truth, I could honestly say I can see all of this happening, with or without the ending.

And now, I have a request. Can someone show us something from the 'Immortals of IN''s point of view? Like Mokou? I would like to see that.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2011, 08:45:01 AM by Helepolis »

Re: The tragedy of long life
« Reply #38 on: December 06, 2011, 02:04:39 AM »
There's lots of those around, they're the first touhou doujin stuff I read actually, this is the only one I saved though:

http://danbooru.donmai.us/post/show/702429/-absurdres-blush-cirno-close-up-comic-daiyousei-ey

Savory

  • I am a save frog
  • *wink*
Re: The tragedy of long life
« Reply #39 on: December 06, 2011, 02:12:58 AM »
I can't even watch Alice-Dere without tearing up. First time I saw it, I bawled my eyes out.

Drake

  • *
Re: The tragedy of long life
« Reply #40 on: December 06, 2011, 02:27:55 AM »
I can't even watch Alice-Dere without tearing up. First time I saw it, I bawled my eyes out.
EDIT: never mind i was thinking of something else
EDIT: spoilers marisa dies at the end WHAT A TWIST ENDING IOSYS
« Last Edit: December 06, 2011, 02:34:40 AM by Drake »

A Colorful Calculating Creative and Cuddly Crafty Callipygous Clever Commander
- original art by Aiけん | ウサホリ -

Re: The tragedy of long life
« Reply #41 on: December 06, 2011, 02:39:29 AM »
Okay, here's one I particularly remembered. Surprisingly not much else to find aside from stand-alone images and really short comics, I thought there were a lot more. Maybe they've been deleted.

Edit: There's a missing page in the pool that's included in this one, make sure to take a look at it if you haven't cried enough.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2011, 03:31:02 AM by Remilius »

Tengukami

  • Breaking news. Any season.
  • *
  • I said, with a posed look.
Re: The tragedy of long life
« Reply #42 on: December 06, 2011, 03:15:34 AM »
Okay, here's one I particularly remembered.
Quote from: Manga Title
"Fujiwara Mokou who lives million times, and Kamishirasawa Keine's one happy lifetime"

Yeah, no, I see where this one's going ...

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

チソウ タイゼン

  • tarzan cheetos
  • you'll thank me for the cropping later
Re: The tragedy of long life
« Reply #43 on: December 06, 2011, 05:05:51 AM »
This is one of the things about Touhou I can't think an awful lot of.
Touhou is only going to be a happy series for about fifty years of Gensokyo's history for me ;-;

As for the works:
Read the comic, held it in
Read End of Maiden's Illusion, held it in
Watched Alice -> Dere, but it was too busy being IOSYS for me to feel much
Read Rou's short, tried really desperately and held it in

Please find something to make me cry like a bitch


Helepolis

  • Charisma!
  • *
  • O-ojousama!?
Re: The tragedy of long life
« Reply #44 on: December 06, 2011, 08:57:56 AM »
This might be surprising to you but, holding it in means your heart cried out loud. Mission accomplished.


capt. h

  • Only sane townie
Re: The tragedy of long life
« Reply #45 on: December 06, 2011, 09:53:28 AM »
I find it ironic that the tragedy of long life is that other people die before you (as in genuinely ironic; the term "tragedy of long life" is used to refer to the exact opposite of what I would expect).

Mind you, there are a lot of tragedies that could be caused by longevity. You forget who you were. You go mad (not necessarily from boredom). You become a pariah. But the fact that other people die doesn't strike me as a drawback of long life, as much as it's a drawback of short life. It's a tragedy of mortality rather than longevity.

Helepolis

  • Charisma!
  • *
  • O-ojousama!?
Re: The tragedy of long life
« Reply #46 on: December 06, 2011, 11:04:01 AM »
You have a point there though yea, imagine you see your own children dying before you. Generally those kind of things are the tragedy of long life.

The Green Mile movie comes into my mind suddenly.


Re: The tragedy of long life
« Reply #47 on: December 06, 2011, 11:14:34 AM »
But the fact that other people die doesn't strike me as a drawback of long life, as much as it's a drawback of short life. It's a tragedy of mortality rather than longevity.

On the contrary. It might depend on your views of an afterlife, but the tragedy of longevity is that you're stuck in a single state for eternity. Everyone you know and love will eventually have moved on to whatever that postmortem stage of life is, while you'll be trapped in a neverending purgatory, never able to go forward or backward, never again able to see the people you cared about, watching them age, degrade, and die, while you remain unchanging, forced to watch everyone live their lives and move on.

Maybe it's just me, but that seems like the worst form of torture possible. Not only the endless loss, but also the permanent stasis.

Basically it's not so much the fact that other people die. It's the fact that you have to sit there and watch them die and there's nothing you can actually do about it, whether you want to try to stop them from leaving or try to go with them. Either one is impossible.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2011, 11:16:07 AM by Unassuming Squid »
All lies and all sin, all dreams and all majesty, Everything rots in this ruined hell

[The Perfect, Elegant Maid] [Pathos of the Hated People] [Music, Projects, and Art]

Helepolis

  • Charisma!
  • *
  • O-ojousama!?
Re: The tragedy of long life
« Reply #48 on: December 06, 2011, 11:39:26 AM »
Unassuming kind of summed it up. Unless you are a cold blooded, relationship-less person, it might not harm you but that is indeed the torture. I guess it is impossible to understand the torture of immortality as (afaik) we haven't run into such person yet.

Also, slightly bending back to Touhou for a moment: It is funny in IN post-extra dialogues that all the girls refuse to eat the guts of Mokou to gain eternal life. Reimu refuses because she does not want to give up humanity. Marisa refuses even though she likes the immortality thing. Sakuya refuses for the oddest, but understandable reason imo and Youmu just lost interest?


Zil

Re: The tragedy of long life
« Reply #49 on: December 06, 2011, 12:10:05 PM »
I think what capt. h was trying to say is that the death of your friends is caused by their short life spans, regardless of how long your own life is. So death is really a tragedy of short life (we have to deal with it in reality, though we don't have any immortals running around). If everyone lived forever, this whole tragedy wouldn't exist.
Though I guess from a different pespective eternal life could be viewed as a tragedy as well, if you think there's something better after death.

J.O.B

  • YOU CAN'T MAKE ME CHANGE
Re: The tragedy of long life
« Reply #50 on: December 06, 2011, 12:28:40 PM »
And now, I have a request. Can someone show us something from the 'Immortals of IN''s point of view? Like Mokou? I would like to see that.
Here is a simple yet effective one.
(Danbooru warning)

Savory

  • I am a save frog
  • *wink*
Re: The tragedy of long life
« Reply #51 on: December 06, 2011, 12:36:33 PM »
That's one of the reasons Alice -> Dere made me cry so much. A lyric at the end says:

"You and I are not the same.
And the one who will be left crying is me."

That sums up the tragedy. Losing the person you most care about and living you life without them.  And it's even more painful because of what Alice is.

Alfred F. Jones

  • Estamos orgullosos del Batall?n Lincoln
  • *
  • y de la lucha que hizo por Madrid
Re: The tragedy of long life
« Reply #52 on: December 06, 2011, 03:55:40 PM »
My biggest problem with the "tragedy of long life" stories is that they're all so... contrived. Who DOESN'T feel sad when a close friend dies, regardless of the lifespans involved? But I can think of no alternative that I've liked, so this criticism is without an answer. Either way, I don't take kindly to works that start out with the intent to make me cry; it's far more effective when it sneaks up behind me and blindsides me when I least see it coming.

Zap

  • Embodiment of Lightning
  • Shocking, isn't it?
Re: The tragedy of long life
« Reply #53 on: December 06, 2011, 10:34:38 PM »
There's lots of those around, they're the first touhou doujin stuff I read actually, this is the only one I saved though:

http://danbooru.donmai.us/post/show/702429/-absurdres-blush-cirno-close-up-comic-daiyousei-ey
Okay, here's one I particularly remembered. Surprisingly not much else to find aside from stand-alone images and really short comics, I thought there were a lot more. Maybe they've been deleted.

Edit: There's a missing page in the pool that's included in this one, make sure to take a look at it if you haven't cried enough.
Here is a simple yet effective one.
(Danbooru warning)
Man, all of these are making me tear up... T__T
Thank you for putting these here... Just what I needed.

Sality

Re: The tragedy of long life
« Reply #54 on: December 07, 2011, 02:03:18 AM »
That's one of the reasons Alice -> Dere made me cry so much. A lyric at the end says:

Have you seen this one ?
Topic is about the same <3

Aba Matindesu!

  • keep it gwiyoming
  • DASEU RAESISSEU
Re: The tragedy of long life
« Reply #55 on: December 07, 2011, 12:38:18 PM »
There was this little short about Reimu
Spoiler:
using herself as a sacrifice to revive Yukari
that made me tear up a little.

I know it was discussed somewhere here on MotK at one point, but I forgot the title of the vid.


teets mi hao 2 2hu teets mi teets mi hao 2 2hu

Re: The tragedy of long life
« Reply #56 on: December 07, 2011, 12:52:53 PM »