Author Topic: So I've decided to convert to Hard mode..  (Read 10351 times)

So I've decided to convert to Hard mode..
« on: July 11, 2009, 03:28:17 AM »
Since Normal is becoming a bit too easy for me, and Extra seems too tricky to do it at my level,
I've decided to start practicing on hard mode.

So far it's.. Hard.

I've mostly been playing MoF, at the moment. Can't seem to get past Aya (semi-obvious), even
if I try the stage several times over. I can usually make it to stage 4 without continuing.

So far, converting to hard mode hasn't exactly been easy, which is why I'm asking for any tips you might want to share with me.

I'm probably going to do PCB hard now, I can't stand Aya. I'll get back to her later.

If you need any replays to see what I play like, There are some in the Touhou Accomplishments section. I'd suggest seeing some of my later ones, if you're going to see something.

Drake

  • *
Re: So I've decided to convert to Hard mode..
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2009, 03:44:52 AM »
I'll see if I can get any good ones up.

In general, I thought EoSD was the easiest out of all of them. I played them by release date and found that it was pretty much difficult in the same order.

But yeah, PCB should be fine to start.

A Colorful Calculating Creative and Cuddly Crafty Callipygous Clever Commander
- original art by Aiけん | ウサホリ -

Re: So I've decided to convert to Hard mode..
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2009, 03:51:14 AM »
http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=3337

Here's my normal mode replay of PCB. I'll show a hard mode replay when I get a good
run in.

Re: So I've decided to convert to Hard mode..
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2009, 04:31:32 AM »
Ooh, I got a great Hard Mode run on PCB. Replay'd

http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=3925

Drake

  • *
Re: So I've decided to convert to Hard mode..
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2009, 05:21:59 AM »
Alrighty, just going to say right off the bat, that wasn't really great. You don't know the stages and take advantage of SakuyA's bomb spamming and ridiculous homing to do everything for you. This is not the way to play. Not saying that you shouldn't use her, but... you shouldn't. It leads to terrible habits. Especially Stage 5; you just sat in the corner the entire time.

Also Sakuya's way too fast and she has a giant-ass hitbox.

Your Concerto Grosso was pretty nicely done. And I guess, if you really had to, you could do as well as you're doing now with a few tricks, and you'll get a bunch of extra lives. Well, two.

A Colorful Calculating Creative and Cuddly Crafty Callipygous Clever Commander
- original art by Aiけん | ウサホリ -

Re: So I've decided to convert to Hard mode..
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2009, 06:35:50 AM »
Fastest way to get better is to stop using characters with homing bullets -- forces you to pay attention and buck up. That's not to say it will work immediately or anything, but I know that whenever I play Reimu homing (or a wide shot character like Yuyuko (IN) or Yuka (MS)) I start slacking and don't pay attention as much, so when it actually comes down to dodging I'm poorly prepared and generally suck up a storm. Something you could try for a while... Not just once and say "lol this sucks, homing4lyfe". Even just Normal mode with a forward shot type (MarisaA/MarisaB in PCB, for example) I find is oodles better than playing Hard mode with either Reimu or Sakuya homing, just because you actually need to pay attention to the enemies or risk getting overwhelmed by bullets.

Re: So I've decided to convert to Hard mode..
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2009, 08:11:36 AM »
How you managed to clear Normal mode with such a low score is a mystery to me. Okay, here is some words of advice.

1: Stop using SakuyaA. She is cheap and broken and when you aren't looking she will stab you in the back. (She has the fastest focus speed which isn't necessarily a good thing...)

2: Practice the stages and bosses. At my initial Normal mode run from i think 8 months ago i didn't know anything about Stage 4 at all so i had to rely on bombing and Reimu's homing fire and i died a lot of times. Recently though i decided to wrap it all up and make a new Normal clear that's less horrible. In doing that i went and learned the stages. It didn't take long to get things down and after just a few runs i could consistenly do Stage 1-5 perfectly and thus leave Yuyuko as the only threat.

3: Plan a little ahead. I'm not saying that anything should be played by some well-planned scheme but a little pre-knowledge is nice to have. By playing the stages in prace stage mode you will learn which spells and attacks you can or can't beat. After having done a lot of runs of Stage 5 Hard i realised that Youmu's first spellcard have a high chance to screw you over so it might be best to just bomb it. What i'm saying is: Go to practice stage and make some runs of all the stages. Figure out which spells you have a chance to beat and try to beat them while doing your run while bombing those where you don't have much chance for sucess. What is important is that you get the 1CC. Not how many spells you capture. That can wait for later.

As for characters i would recommend MarisaA or ReimuB. Preferably MarisaA as her speed can give you a major advantage if you can control her. If not then play as ReimuB.

EDIT: After watching your replay.

You messed up big time at Chen. Her midboss attack as well as the spellcard there is really simple. Go grind it out in Stage Practice. You can't afford to lose lives there. As for her bossfight you will want to practice until you can do all her spellcards consistently.

On another note. Set your starting lives to default.

Oh and i just tried using SakuyaA. Even if you don't use bomb spamming she is abusable. I only made it to Stage 5 though, default lives of course, but i'm guessing its mainly due to me playing on my desktop instead of my laptop and the fact that i'm not used to Sakuya's speed.

In any case, use someone else. She is cheap and broken. Use anyone except the knife-throwing housemaid.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2009, 09:08:04 AM by Zengeku »

ghost333

  • A retired Lunatic
Re: So I've decided to convert to Hard mode..
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2009, 09:50:48 AM »
I play SakuyaB and i can say that she is not so easy as MarisaA.
actually she is a great choice.
SakuyaA on the other hand never filled me.

?q

  • Lurking librarian
  • and moe sound effect
Re: So I've decided to convert to Hard mode..
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2009, 12:32:31 PM »
Hey, don't knock Yuyuko solo.  I found that I had to pay MORE attention because it was harder to get point items with her focused speed, thus forcing me to ration bombs. on Lunatic (-;

The problem with SakuyA, more than the loldogmeat above, is that her shot power is mediocre and her bombs aren't much better.  On higher difficulty levels when you want to get out of enemy spells quickly, SakuyA will not come through.  Cheap, yes.  Broken, no.  Still better than ReimuA?  Very much so.

In MoF, ReimuA is the same way.  The stages will become very, very easy, but the bosses from Aya on will drag on forever - and in a game where bombing is tied to power, messing up just makes the REST of the battle take longer, causing you to bomb/die more, and so forth.  Don't bother taking on Suwako unless you have half an hour to burn.

Naut had it right - learn to use forward-firing characters.  In PCB, I kind of like MarisaB for this - you do quite a bit of damage for focus-firing into the boss, and while her bombs are powerful, you only get two.

Alternatively, play EoSD or SA, where even homing characters will time out spells if you're not under the boss.

Re: So I've decided to convert to Hard mode..
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2009, 12:30:18 AM »

In MoF, ReimuA is the same way.  The stages will become very, very easy, but the bosses from Aya on will drag on forever - and in a game where bombing is tied to power, messing up just makes the REST of the battle take longer, causing you to bomb/die more, and so forth.  Don't bother taking on Suwako unless you have half an hour to burn.

ReimuA is not that weak. She is my choice of character for MoF Extra (only because she trivializes the stage) and deals decent damage to Suwako.

Heartbeam

Re: So I've decided to convert to Hard mode..
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2009, 03:06:58 AM »
Quote
Ordered by power
0:15 MarisaBugged
0:34 ReimuC close
0:36 MarisaC 3 frostthrowers
0:40 MarisaC 2 frostthrowers
0:41 ReimuB
0:46 ReimuC med
0:46 MarisaA
0:46 MarisaB
0:55 ReimuA
1:08 ReimuC far

Of course, she'll probably pull through in situations where you or the boss are constantly shifting positions but those opportunities are not plentiful.

I wonder what time MarisaC with four frostthrowers would clock in at.

Sodium

  • pew pew lasers
Re: So I've decided to convert to Hard mode..
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2009, 03:19:16 AM »
Quote
Ordered by power
0:15 MarisaBugged
0:34 ReimuC close
0:36 MarisaC 3 frostthrowers
0:40 MarisaC 2 frostthrowers
0:41 ReimuB
0:46 ReimuC med
0:46 MarisaA
0:46 MarisaB
0:55 ReimuA
1:08 ReimuC far

Of course, she'll probably pull through in situations where you or the boss are constantly shifting positions but those opportunities are not plentiful.

I wonder what time MarisaC with four frostthrowers would clock in at.
It'd probably clock in at around 0:32 seeing as how 3(two middle+1side) is 4 seconds less then 2 middle, so adding another side option should reduce the time by another 4 seconds. Now, this may not seem much, but this is on VoWG, so yeah.

But it's only possible when you get another option while focused and to the left of your current three options, so that the new option is layered with the other three. As in, completely impractical, but hilarious if you do get it.

Heartbeam

Re: So I've decided to convert to Hard mode..
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2009, 03:50:36 AM »
As in, completely impractical, but hilarious if you do get it.

As a matter of fact, the last fairy before Kanako as well as the few before Suwako...

?q

  • Lurking librarian
  • and moe sound effect
Re: So I've decided to convert to Hard mode..
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2009, 11:01:46 AM »
In MoF, ReimuA is the same way.  The stages will become very, very easy, but the bosses from Aya on will drag on forever - and in a game where bombing is tied to power, messing up just makes the REST of the battle take longer, causing you to bomb/die more, and so forth.  Don't bother taking on Suwako unless you have half an hour to burn.
ReimuA is not that weak. She is my choice of character for MoF Extra (only because she trivializes the stage) and deals decent damage to Suwako.
I question your definition of "decent".
Alternatively, have you tried other shot types?  ReimuB is much better at basically everything except the fairies that scream in firing blue bullets and the fairies that come in from behind.

Silentsword

  • Ace Hakurei Attorney
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Re: So I've decided to convert to Hard mode..
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2009, 04:44:01 AM »
In MoF, ReimuA is the same way.  The stages will become very, very easy, but the bosses from Aya on will drag on forever - and in a game where bombing is tied to power, messing up just makes the REST of the battle take longer, causing you to bomb/die more, and so forth.  Don't bother taking on Suwako unless you have half an hour to burn.
ReimuA is not that weak. She is my choice of character for MoF Extra (only because she trivializes the stage) and deals decent damage to Suwako.
I question your definition of "decent".
Alternatively, have you tried other shot types?  ReimuB is much better at basically everything except the fairies that scream in firing blue bullets and the fairies that come in from behind.

Agreed. 

Much as I love ReimuA for the main game, candor compels me to admit that she just doesn't have the oomph behind her attacks that ReimuB and Marisa have.  While the lengthened spellcard time isn't usually a problem for me (except against VoWG, certain noncards, and possibly Cork Sign), it is a problem against Suwako, and perhaps more importantly, it gives me more time in which to make a mistake.  As u? pointed out: once you make that first mistake, you can expect more to follow, simply due to reduced output on your end.

Point of fact, ReimuB and MarisaB are the only two with whom I can clear Extra. 


Looking back, I find that while the homing characters make the game easier at first, they quickly fall behind characters like PCB/EoSD MarisaA/ReimuB, IN Youmu/Magic Team, MoF ReimuB, and so forth.  The problem I have in playing them is that when I do, I'm not actually learning anything about the game, the opponents, or my own play.  All I'm doing is letting the computer handle the killing while I dodge a dramatically reduced number of bullets and enemies....until something shows up that the homers can't take out quickly, at which point I'm caught off guard and pretty much hosed.  And when I switch to someone without homing, nothing I picked up from the homer applies - no patterns, no techniques, no nothing.  Not even information.

And when you're moving up to Hard and Lunatic, you need all the help you can get!
« Last Edit: July 15, 2009, 04:59:14 AM by Silentsword »
"But if I don't do this, then all that's left is to stand around and do nothing, and I've discovered I can't do that. That's the problem with the freedom of choice he was talking about: once you've got it, you can't live with yourself very comfortably if you choose not to exercise it." - Commander Warner Caslet.

Re: So I've decided to convert to Hard mode..
« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2009, 10:28:53 PM »
funny that, i just switched to hard mode too

im close to 1cc'ing IN and PCB atm, Stage 5 for both of them screw me over.

Re: So I've decided to convert to Hard mode..
« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2009, 06:00:08 AM »
Thank you all for your help! I switched to Marisa A, set the lives to 3, and am beginning to use stage practice more
often now. I'll post a replay here as soon as I get one.

Lopsidation

  • Exploring the Twin Labyrinths
  • Be light of heart;
Re: So I've decided to convert to Hard mode..
« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2009, 03:55:57 PM »
I've just shifted up into hard mode too. Here's my latest go at EoSD hard:
http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=3988
where I was trying to practice bombing much more aggressively than I usually do.
I finally made it to Remi!  If only I'd gotten to the 60 million point 1-up, I might have had a (tiny) chance at beating her.
Note my extreme failure on the Stage 3 midboss and boss, and the worst point collecting ever on Stage 6.

Any tips?
"Happiness is like a cat, If you try to coax it or call it, it will avoid you; it will never come. But if you pay no attention to it and go about your business, you'll find it rubbing against your legs and jumping into your lap."

Heartbeam

Re: So I've decided to convert to Hard mode..
« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2009, 04:58:03 PM »
I've just shifted up into hard mode too. Here's my latest go at EoSD hard:
http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=3988
where I was trying to practice bombing much more aggressively than I usually do.
I finally made it to Remi!  If only I'd gotten to the 60 million point 1-up, I might have had a (tiny) chance at beating her.
Note my extreme failure on the Stage 3 midboss and boss, and the worst point collecting ever on Stage 6.

Any tips?

Create consistent paths for yourself as you run through the stages.  Take out enemies before they make a mess of the screen, controlling aimed attacks so you aren't pushed against the edge, stuff like that. 

You probably already know about this but Marisa B's bomb has a tendency to prevent enemies from entering the screen, ever.  The fairy rings that come before Sakuya on stage six are aimed at you so a tap will solve everything except maybe a fairy running into you from the side.  Staying on one side should prevent that.  Then, once the first of the mass of fairies comes out you can start the bomb.  Other decent bombing locations include the rows of fairies in stage five before midboss and endstage Sakuya.

Unless you want to figure everything by yourself there are plenty of replays to draw ideas from.

Re: So I've decided to convert to Hard mode..
« Reply #19 on: July 19, 2009, 06:58:08 AM »
best way to practice hard is to practice lunatic

do a stage on lunatic 5-10 times, go back to hard, laugh at how easy everything looks...

..and still die, but itll seem much easier which will help the learning process.

nintendonut888

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  • Leave a sign of your life, no matter how small...
Re: So I've decided to convert to Hard mode..
« Reply #20 on: July 19, 2009, 07:54:27 AM »
best way to practice hard is to practice lunatic

do a stage on lunatic 5-10 times, go back to hard, laugh at how easy everything looks...

..and still die, but itll seem much easier which will help the learning process.

Strangely, this also works in the inverse. I've been up against lunatic patterns I've thought were impossible, tried hard once, and in the lite version of the attack saw how it works.
nintendonut888: Hey Baity. I beat the high score for Sanae B hard on the score.dat you sent me. X3
Baity: For a moment, I thought you broke 1.1billion. Upon looking at my score.dat, I can assume that you destroyed the score that is my failed (first!) 1cc attempt on my first day of playing. Congratulations.

[19:42] <Sapz> I think that's the only time I've ever seen a suicide bullet shoot its own suicide bullet

Re: So I've decided to convert to Hard mode..
« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2009, 01:02:20 AM »
In MoF, ReimuA is the same way.  The stages will become very, very easy, but the bosses from Aya on will drag on forever - and in a game where bombing is tied to power, messing up just makes the REST of the battle take longer, causing you to bomb/die more, and so forth.  Don't bother taking on Suwako unless you have half an hour to burn.
ReimuA is not that weak. She is my choice of character for MoF Extra (only because she trivializes the stage) and deals decent damage to Suwako.
I question your definition of "decent".
Alternatively, have you tried other shot types?  ReimuB is much better at basically everything except the fairies that scream in firing blue bullets and the fairies that come in from behind.

I have only done a single MoF Extra clear as ReimB. Yes. She was much more effective against Suwako but i don't really need all that firepower against her anyway. It doesn't matter if it takes a few more minutes to do. it will certainly not be half an hour.