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A Tarot of Gensokyou
« on: July 05, 2011, 01:30:58 am »
Here's some sketchy ideas for a tarot deck. Whenever possible characters were chosen by what they represent instead going for looks. When not possible, looks were shamelessly used:

 0 - Fool (Cirno) (+Rumia? + Daiyousei?)
nineball tomfoolery aside, Cirno is an apt fool, being an innocent character, as Rumia. In fact, the entire Team 9 could go here, but the other girls are probably used elsewhere.

 1 - Magician (Yukari)
reality changer, trickster of dubious morality. Also, did you guys notice how the bow in heir hair is totally an infinity symbol, right?

 2 - High Priestess (Patchouli?) (+Koakuma?)
because I want to save Reimu for Justice, Byakuren for Hierophant. Maybe Sanae would be a better fit (surrounded by two onbashiras as the Rider-Waite card) but Sanae is not wise. The high priestess should be wise, be holding a book and be indoors.

 3 - Empress (Suwako)
As the symbol of old feminine power. Maybe Minoriko would be a better choice, but I don't like to use original characters.
 
 4 - Emperor (Kanako)
Finding a match for imperative masculine power in Touhou is asking for trouble. Kanako is not a goddess of war, but she overthrew Suwako and "reign" in her place. Also, onbashiras, onbashiras everywhere.

 5 - Hierophant (Byakuren, Shou and Murasa)
I don't know much about this card, but it's supposed to be another symbol for wisdom and organized religion.

 6 - Lovers (no idea)
Major help is needed here. I'm not a shipper. There's three characters shown here: boy, girl and an angel of love. Showing Reisen and Eirin as the lovers with Tewi-cherub would be evil.

 7 - Chariot (Alice, Shangai and Hourai)
A character moving forward alone. I wanted to use Alice here, but better suggestions are appreciated.

 8 - Strength (Ichirin and Unzan)
My first idea was Yuugi here, but then who would be the lion? This card is about unseen strength.

 9 - Hermit (Kasen)
The description goes right in her business card. Just give a lantern to the girl.

10 - Wheel of Fortune (Yin Yang orb)
It's not a character here. There are three (or seven) mystical beasts around the wheel, so people could go crazy here.

11 - Justice (Reimu)
Gensokyo's balance. 'Nuff said.

12 - Hanged Man (Kogasa)
How would Kogasa stand upside down like that while keeping her modesty? It's a mistery! Another idea would be Yamame/Kisume (going by the look: Kisume literally hangs on her bucket and Yamame being a spider can hang from the ceiling too)

13 - Death (Komachi)
Give the shinigami her share. Since this is Gensokyo's deck, she should be pictured leisurely at her titanic, with hitodamas instead parts of people.

14 - Temperance (Suika) (lol)
Because This! Is! Gensokyo! the fluid being exchanged in this card is booze. But Suika is also pretty much the inverse of Temperance, so a better match is probably required.

15 - Devil (Remilia, Sakuya and Meiling)
She has the demon wings and likes to be called the part. Sakuya and Meiling are bound to Remilia by gods know what ties.

16 - Tower (Saigyou Ayakahi as the Tower, Yuyuko and Youmu)
I'm without better ideas regarding this card. If Remilia wasn't already a better fit for the Devil, I'd use the SDM's Clock Tower here.

17 - Star (Sanae? or Marisa?)
Both conjure star shaped danmaku. Both are main characters and should appear in the deck.

18 - Moon (Kaguya +Wriggle? +Mystia? +Nitori?)
By then I realize I'm still to use people from Eientei: This card should show the moon face (Kaguya, no doubt) plus night and aquatic creatures.

19 - Sun (Yuuka? Mokou?)
This card imagery is full of sunflowers in the Rider-Waite deck, which screams Yuuka. But if Kaguya is the moon, it's kind of unfair that Mokou isn't the sun. This card needs a sun face (Yuuka? Mokou?) and one or two kids playing below.

20 - Judgement (Eiki)
Presiding over a host of hitodamas and Ghosts. I wish all the cards could be this easy to decide.

21 - World (Akyu at the center, +4 beasts around)
This is Gensokyo. People could go crazy with the beasts: Phoenixes? Nues? Hakutakus?
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Re: A Tarot of Gensokyou
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2011, 03:40:40 am »
This is so cool I can't figure out what to reply with o_o

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Re: A Tarot of Gensokyou
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2011, 04:42:39 am »
Sakuya is The World, and for Lovers, my OTP is Alice/Marisa.

It might be better to go by the meaning of the card, rather than characters who superficially fit; you did this well for the most part, but for i.e. Hanged Man, what does the card actually signify? Who would fit the meaning, as opposed to "Which characters are upside-down?"
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Re: A Tarot of Gensokyou
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2011, 07:31:36 am »
I actually put together something like this a while ago with the help of my mother, who knew the interpretations of the major arcana by heart.

0 - The Fool - Rumia
Rumia is innocent, childish, lighthearted, and rather dim (pardon the pun). Additionally, when she covers herself in darkness she tends to bump into trees, making her a perfect fit for the Fool, who is also depicted as walking straight off a cliff while being chased by a dog, blind to the danger he is in in favor of the bright sunny day above him.

I - The Magician - Patchouli
The Magician often points to talents and capabilities at your disposal, and encourages not holding back and accessing one's full potential. Combined with the fact that it's called The Magician, I think it fits Patchouli very well.

II - The High Priestess - Satori
The High Priestess represents reading and revealing secrets, or when the truth needs to be revealed. Intuition is also a factor it represents. Satori's ability to read the hearts and minds of anyone is the perfect way to reveal the hidden truth.

III - The Empress - Minoriko
I lack the reservations against the Aki sisters that _cf holds, and therefore I have no qualms with using the much more fitting harvest goddess Minoriko as the feminine Empress. Minoriko, as a harvest goddess, is also likely calm and benevolent, like the Empress's personality.

IV - The Emperor - Alice
The Emperor card is not only masculine, but also a strong controller. The Emperor takes charge of several things at once with efficiency and an iron fist, similar to Alice's mastery of manipulating dozens of puppets at once with hardly any distraction.

V - The Heirophant - Sanae
The card that symbolizes a priest, one highly devoted to his religion. The meaning of the card is one I don't remember, unfortunately, but I knew that Sanae was a perfect fit.

VI - The Lovers - Byakuren
The Lovers does not only symbolize devotion to a person, but also devotion to an idea, to the point where the person will put their life on the line for that idea. It symbolizes that one's values will be tested. Byakuren was so devoted to the goal of unity of humans and youkai that she was imprisoned in Makai, and even after a thousand years there she still felt that humans and youkai should be equal.

VII - The Chariot - Youmu
The Chariot symbolizes cutting through problems in the fastest and most straightforward way possible. Youmu's reaction to most problems is to cut through them with her blade, the sword that can cut through almost anything.

VIII - Strength - Cirno
Strength represents steadfastness of mind and determination in the face of overwhelming odds. Cirno seems to be the perfect candidate; she vehemently believes in her strength, challenging anyone to a fight anytime, no matter what odds are placed against her. She is weak compared to everyone else, but her inner strength is what defines her character.

IX - The Hermit - Mokou
The Hermit is the card of isolation and self-searching. Mokou is a hermit of a sort, living almost alone in the Bamboo Forest, having all the time in the world to contemplate the feelings she has about her past. She associates with few, and her time alone must be spent in endless thought and soul-searching.

X - Wheel of Fortune - Tewi
This should be obvious. The manipulator of luck is a perfect representation for the card of luck.

XI - Justice - Aya
Aya's intention is to bring justice to Gensokyo by revealing the truths of Gensokyo to the public. Sometimes she will manipulate the truth, of course, but the intention is still there. Like Justice, her job is to be impartial and only provide the truth.

XII - The Hanged Man - Parsee
The Hanged Man is the card of stasis and waiting. Parsee is cursed to always want, always wait. She will never reach satisfaction because she will always want what everyone else has, unable to look at what she has. She is always waiting for something good to happen to her for once, but even if it does happen she may not even recognize it.

XIII - Death - Yuyuko
The Death card does not only mean the death of a phase of life. It also means the rebirth of a new phase in one's life. Butterflies are a symbol of resurrection, and Yuyuko, as the mistress of the netherworld, is therefore a perfect choice for the Death card.

XIV - Temperance - Reimu
Temperance is balance. Reimu is the enforcer of balance in Gensokyo, working tirelessly to tamp down anyone who seeks to uproot her calm paradise.

XV - The Devil - Suika
The Devil represents letting go of restraint and succumbing to emotion and revelry. Suika is The Devil in this sense, with her chains and constant partygoing attitude.

XVI - The Tower - Flandre
The Tower is the most violent of the cards, representing the destructive upheaval of everything in your life. It is the razing of everything so that a new life can be built on top of it, and can be called "the darkness before the dawn". Flandre's ability is to instantly destroy anything, and her wand, Laevateinn, is the wand used by Surt to destroy the world in Norse mythology.

XVII - The Star - Marisa
Aside from the fact that Marisa uses star-shaped danmaku, The Star is about optimism, inspiration, discovery, and becoming something more than you were. Marisa studies magic diligently, striving to become a great magician, and her lighthearted and optimistic demeanor is a perfect fit for The Star card.

XVIII - The Moon - Koishi
The Moon has to do with emotional turmoil, often expressed through nightmares. Koishi's ability to manipulate the subconscious gives her the ability to manipulate dreams.

XIX - The Sun - Utsuho
Not only does Utsuho use miniature suns in her attacks, but she is also generally cheerful and happy, reflecting the positive meaning of The Sun card, a representation of joy.

XX - Judgement - Shikieiki
I don't think I need to explain this.

XXI - The World - Yukari
Yukari is likely the one who aided in creating the Great Hakurei Barrier, thus creating Gensokyo in the first place all those years ago. She is the reason Gensokyo exists, and she loves it with all her heart; in a way, she is The World of Gensokyo. The World represents 'cosmic consciousness', and Yukari is often shown to know much more than she lets on, seeming almost omnipotent.
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Re: A Tarot of Gensokyou
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2011, 09:53:59 am »
I would buy the shit out of this.

If you're having trouble deciding on any of the characters, why not wait until 10D comes out? After all, there might be some characters in there that fit the bill better.
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Re: A Tarot of Gensokyou
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2011, 10:39:08 am »
It might be better to go by the meaning of the card, rather than characters who superficially fit

Seconding this, as someone who's studied and used the Rider-Waite deck for many years. Start with knowing the meanings of the Major Arcana cards, then go with the characters who canonically apply to those cards. I think you'll see a much more different deck emerge.

Also, we shouldn't forget the four suits of the Minor Arcana or who would be on them.

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Re: A Tarot of Gensokyou
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2011, 11:14:31 am »
21 - World (Akyu at the center, +4 beasts around)
This is Gensokyo. People could go crazy with the beasts: Phoenixes? Nues? Hakutakus?
This

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Re: A Tarot of Gensokyou
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2011, 11:29:57 pm »
I'll second Squidtentacles, who listed an excellent deck - yours will also be visually stunning, I think.  :) The lovers as thought out is also interesting, although it is best to remember it is not a card just about love as a romantic, erotic ideal - but a as a force; of unity and merging. I have my own decklist somewhere, based off of my own (weird!) interpretations. I could dig it up, but I must warn that I diverge from Rider-Waite on several many keypoints. Also, I favor pentacles and dislike swords when it comes to the minor suites, and favoritism is never a good thing to have when trying to create something that others can use- regardless, this is a very cool project. If you decide to illustrate it and put it further to words, that would be wonderful.

Squidtentacles - I'm interested that you list the Tower as violent; I would say misfortune, more than violence. It always seems to accompany loss and doubt more than anything else in my experience.

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Re: A Tarot of Gensokyou
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2011, 12:02:13 am »
Also, we shouldn't forget the four suits of the Minor Arcana or who would be on them.

In the Rider-Waite deck, the four suits are the wand, the cup, the sword and the pentacle. Wands are Masculine/Fire, and represents the focused mind with ideas and concepts. Cups deal with the emotional and intuitive, and are Feminine/Water. Swords, Masculine/Air, regard action, and Pentacles, Feminine/Earth, are the result, the goal realized.

These have some obvious correspondences in Gensokyo; there are wands, swords, cups and pentacles. But the purpose of the Minor Arcana is to chart how an idea becomes a desire becomes an action becomes a reality. In that sense, I think four possible suits of the Minor Arcana in a Touhou-themed tarot deck would be the gohei, the hishaku, the hauchiwa fan, and the scroll.

The gohei is wand-like, of course, but it also occupies the initial stage, belonging to the main protagonist. She is the quester, repeatedly, so the gohei represents initiation well. The hishaku corresponds to cups not solely for resembling one, but also for its connection to a character whose entire story is bound in water, as well as turbulent emotion and desire. The hauchiwa fan has its correspondence with air, and is hand-held, like a sword, but it is also carried by one of Gensokyo's doers and creators. Lastly, the scroll can be said to represent fruition and realization, as it belongs to a character who was herself brought to realization after a very long time sealed away.

Now, if we have the Minor Arcana down, the rest is easy: each card of the Minor Arcana has a specific message, and these can be represented any number of great ways with an imaginative enough artist. Notice I'm not emphasizing technical ability - imagination is more important in this case.

Just my initial thoughts on this.

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Re: A Tarot of Gensokyou
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2011, 04:01:07 am »
Weighing in with my thoughts:

0 - The Fool is, above all else, spontaneous and unpredictable. Cirno... not so much. She's more childish the child-like. Memes aside, she's actually a remarkably poor fit for the Fool. I've always pictured Kogasa here, but I think I like Squid's suggestion of Rumia even better.

1 - The Magician is about straightforward action, direct energy. Quite frankly, I can't imagine anyone other than Marisa on this card.

2 - Counterpoint to The Magician, High Priestess is about mystery, secrecy, manipulation; sounds exactly like Yukari's MO to me. (Of course, this is based on the personal interpretation that she's not nearly as powerful as she lets on, just really good at making everything she does look effortless, but hey. Don't knock mah headcanon.)

3 - The mother figure; unchecked love and natural abundance. I second Minoriko.

4 - The father figure, symbol of authority and discipline. Who else but Reimu, keeper of the order in Gensokyo? ...though, the laziness bit is kind of a mismatch. Kanako is an acceptable alternative, and cuts an imposing figure to boot.

5 - The Heirophant is a symbol of tradition and conformance; it embodies established religious and educational doctrines. Sanae, eh... is kinda eccentric for this. I've always seen Keine or Akyuu in this spot (Though I like the suggestion of Akyuu for The World, so let's say Keine, yes?)

6 - Another counterpoint, Lovers is about breaking with tradition to explore your own personal beliefs and identity, then sharing that identity through interpersonal relationships and intimacy. I've never really been sure who would best represent this; I've always gone Koishi just by default, but I like Squid's Byakuren too.

7 - Never been one of my favorite cards, so I'll defer to Squid's choice.

8 - Cirno strikes me as kind of a non-sequitur here. Yeah, okay, she doesn't back down from a fight, but is that bravery, or just stupidity? The popular Yuugi/Suika choice also manages to miss the main point of the card. Yes, raw power is an aspect of Strength, but it goes far deeper than that, incorporating courage, patience, compassion; strength of character. I can honestly say that I am thoroughly biased about this card, and refuse to accept anybody but Meiling as Strength's representative.

9 - Another card I disagree with Squid on. Sure, Mokou's got the solitude down, but where's the introspection? She's not interested in deep thoughts; hell, she never so much as gives a second thought to her centuries-old feud with Kaguya. No, Mokou doesn't work for Hermit. Kasen is the obvious choice, though I haven't read WaHH, so I can't say just how good the fit actually is. I'd feel more comfortable putting one of our resident magicians, Patchy or Alice, on this one. (Though it's really about the search for wisdom, and not just knowldegde... but until someone else weighs in on the Kasen issue, I'm stickin' to it.)

10 - The Wheel of Fate is big. BIG. Wheels within wheels, grand designs, and all that. Far bigger than any one agenda, which makes meddlesome Tewi a bad choice, and the popular pick, Remi, even worse. I say this card should follow suit with Rider-Waite, and not showcase any character. Though, I'm sad to say, I don't have any brilliant ideas on what to replace it with. The Yin-Yang Orb is... well, a step in the right direction, but still too directly associated with the Hakurei Shrine to be a perfect fit.

11/20 - These two are kinda tricky, due to overlapping connotations in the terminology, so I'm lumping them together, to get this out of the way all at once:

JUSTICE is about morality, black/white distinctions, decisions and consequences, courtroom-proceedings-kinda-stuff. In a word, Eiki.
JUDGMENT is more about self-appraisal, finding a higher calling, weigh-your-heart-against-a-feather and all that jazz. I think Shou, holding forth a shining pagoda, would be wonderful here.

12 - I... really can't get past the image of Wriggle hanging by her foot in that one Inaba Moon/Earth chapter on this one. No contribution here, sorry. Though, I can say that Parsee is a poor fit; Hanged Man is about surrendering to experience, which... is not what Parsee does. At all.

13 - Squid's got it spot on here. Yuyuko <3

14 - Reimu, eh. Again, the laziness aspect rears its ugly head. I've always thought Eirin made a good Temperance, though I can't seem to muster a persuasive argument why atm.

15 - The Devil is a card of vice, slavery to one's own nature. Between the chains and the alcohol, Suika would be a good match... except that the shackles don't actually restrict her any, and she's addicted to sake in the same sense that humans are addicted to food. No, she's far too upbeat for the dismal nature of this card. I say we're back to Mokou and Kaguya's endless war here.

16 - The Tower is another one of those cards I've never really identified with... and I have seen some nice renders of Flandre on this one, so... yeah. Basically, I got nuthin'.

17 - Coming from the misery of the Devil and the violence of the Tower, The Star represents a calm moment filled with positive energy. Hope and inspiration are the words of the day here. I like Sanae here, for purely selfish reasons, of course.

18 - Two words: Moon, illusions. I usually try to avoid the obvious choices, but really, I can't find any reason why Reisen shouldn't be a perfect fit here.

19 - I kinda lean towards Utsuho on this one, though Yuuka is pretty good as well. Once again, obvious choices win the day.

21 - "Damn it, Yukari!" (*ahem* now that that's out of the way...) The culmination of the Fool's Journey, integrating everything in the previous twenty cards. I've really never had a good pick for this one... until now. I gotta hand it to you, _cf, your Akyuu suggestion surprises me with its brilliance.

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Re: A Tarot of Gensokyou
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2011, 08:17:26 am »
0 - The Fool - Reimu Hakurei (Alternate at end)
The Fool can also represent not only someone who is child-like or blindly (mis)fortunate, but those on a voyage of discovery. I would argue that Reimu has been learning more about Gensokyo with every game, and that the incidents she resolves - by pure chance, often after many encounters with youkai and spirits completely unrelated to the incident - are her version of the pitfalls of the road. Alternatively, I nominate Maribel.

I - The Magician - Patchouli (Alternatively; Rinnosuke, Renko.)
Couldn't agree more that Patchouli makes a great version of the Magician. For a less literal example - one that substitutes a discovery and encouragement through salvaged technology and rumor rather than actual magic - Rinnosuke fits well. If Maribel is the fool, then it is only logical the first person she encounters is Renko - who encourages and enables her to embark upon a journey both magical and rational.

II - The High Priestess - Kurumi
To explain; the High Priestess often holds hidden knowledge that others are not meant to know; I often see water and moonlight mentioned. To me, the obscurity of Kurumi's reasoning behind engaging in combat - as well as her wholehearted effort - make her enigmatic, and thus a perfect candidate for the High Priestess. I would also put Mystia in this role for similar reasons.

III - The Empress - Minoriko
I think we're all in agreement here; if anyone is the sort of guiding and pleasant person that the Empress - usually - is, it is Minoriko. That being said the Empress can also be aloof and removed, and demands discipline from those who listen to her guidance. As the Harvester sows, so can it be taken away.

IV - The Emperor - The Yama
Shikieiki would not wish to be this card, but I feel she would embody it simply to prevent others from doing the same. The Empire is definitely masculine and controlling, demanding strict obedience - and Alice with her legion of dolls can fit that quota nicely - but it is also a symbol of authority and rigidness. Even if the Yama desires to be seen as someone who helps others, in a place as freespirited as Gensokyo, her influence is often mistrusted and even viewed antagonistically; leading to her sometimes confrontational methods.

V - The Hierophant - Yumemi
For someone who values innovation and science, the Hierophant seems strange; it is a card that is about knowledge, yes; but also it's foundation in rational, stolid fact - not the kind of rampant superscience that can unify entire fields. Nevertheless, though Yumemi is hardly a reactionary individual, to Gensokyo the things she bring are a poisoned offering - being both amazing and yet capable of bringing with them change that would take much of the 'mystery' of Gensokyo away. This leads us to the Lovers nicely-

VI - The Lovers - Gensokyo
It is a place that we all love; a place that even those who dwell within it know to be special. To strangers and residents alike, it is magical, precious. Can any one person rightly guide this place to further development..? So asks the Fool as they continue along their journey.

VII - The Chariot - Yuugi
This card is all about the power of confidence. For someone who can fight without ever mishandling the elegant bowl from which she drinks, Yuugi positively exudes confidence and good-natured boisterousness. On the other hand, she is also aggressive and headstrong - traits that though positive, can lead to strive and conquest.

VIII - Justice - Byakuren
And here I notice the order of our decks differ. Eh? Do I have bootleg cards or something~? Anyway, if the Yama is the Emperor, than Byakuren is justice - the idea that both human and youkai must receive the same chances. It is vital to note that despite the level of devotion she inspires, Byakuren is not perfect; she has many flaws and doubts. This blindness - both to the concept of self, and perhaps to the task she has set out on - is also befitting of Justice. She may yet change that land.

IX - The Hermit - Marisa
I realize that many of you are probably scratching your heads at my weird choices right now; but ever since I started playing Touhou, Marisa seemed like a Hermit to me. Although she is open and outgoing, she doesn't ever tend to share her deeper motivations. She wanders Gensokyo in search of... Well, anything, really, and we have seen her copy many things that belong to other - but these knowledges are never shared with others. Her secrets are her own, but her wisdom and drawn comparisons to the Magician make her the epitome of this card; in my mind.

X - Wheel of Fortune - A stylized drawing of Eientei, with many rabbits; Mokou and Kaguya face each other while Keine; who is of two halves - attempts to hold them at bay.
Neither side will ever progress, yet at the same time they are always progressing. There are many sides more than just two; but despite how they may act to others, they will always attempt to juxtapose the balance of power; and if that has consequences for those around them, so be it. So the wheel continues to turn, where it's roulette ends a constant mystery.

XI - Strength - Ichirin. Unzan looms in the background, looking both terrifying and yet calm.
Inner strength - quiet devotion, thought, and a will of iron - are the qualities of Strength. She is unfairly lambasted as being merely Unzan's hitbox; how can that be, when it is she who gives Unzan form and allows him to remain in this world? Ichirin gives Unzan purpose, and it is for that reason that he does not appear alone; her inner strength is as bright as a monk could be.

XII - The Hanged Man - Koishi
A closed eye brings happiness and great power; but at the same time, Koishi has abandoned a facet of herself; out of fear of fear, hatred of hate. Although her sacrifice does not leave her bitter, to assume that she is solely happy of such a loss is debatable; on the other hand, she did gain knowledge and enlightenment of a sort from this sacrifice, so perhaps through the loss of her eye, she was in fact correct..?

XIII - Death - Yuyuko
Yuyuko really is the perfect embodiment of all sides of change/death. There is nothing more to say.

XIV - Temperance - Suwako
It takes gracefulness and knowledge of oneself to admit defeat; and it takes foresight and planning to rear your own descendent as a maiden. Suwako exemplifies the nature of Temperance not just as balance and wholeness, but also in terms of foresight - and in less flattering ways - the ability to undermine things with quiet power as opposed to raw strength.

XV - The Devil - Yuuka
It is one thing to interpret the Devil as being a card leading others into temptation, and still another to it be associated with restraints and the lifting of them. Yet a third is someone who acts on impulse; who eats for the pleasure of food as it crunches beneath their teeth, fights for the thrill of blood spilling, gives for the joy of a warm smile, and turns to the sun with the coming of dawn. In this interpretation, Yuuka represents both the negative and positive connotations of the Devil; she is free to do what she wants, but that is because she holds no code or law to stop her. Many of the Old Gods of Gensokyo and other lands might also fall under this interpretation...

XVI - The Tower - Remilia visiting an imprisoned Flandre
It is not just the destruction and doom that the Tower brings, but it's meaning; the Tower brings destruction because it was weak, built on pride and refusal to change. Remilia is intelligent, lady-like, and refined; but she is also extremely proud of herself and those who serve her. Her sister is both family and yet a nuisance, living a life far removed by force - and deadly certainty that sister knows best. Even if this does protect Flandre, the effect it must have on Remilia's mental well-being alone is enough to make the Scarlet sisters a perfect fit for this card.

XVII - The Star - Mima
Although Marisa would fit here thematically, the Star is a herald of coming joy; prosperity, livelihood, peace. One might ask how Mima has anything in common with those things - although she may be mentioned as an Evil Spirit, she has since disappeared almost without trace; and now that she is gone, what are most days in Gensokyo like? Each new dawn heralds another peaceful, lazy day - only interrupted by just enough incidents to keep things 'interesting'. One wonders if Mima saw that there was no longer a need for her in Gensokyo. Or perhaps...

XVIII - The Moon - Satori
Although Koishi has power to control the subconscious, Satori must see the plain and simple truth that is the Moon's antithesis. However, these are filtered through layers of thoughts; dreams, desires, creativity, stagnation... In the end, because of this burden of truth, she must unravel the entirety of the illusions woven by human or youkai alike simply when interacting with others - and the distrust and the loathing this creates as a reflection are so very fitting for the Moon.

XIX - The Sun - Chen and Ran, looking at something past the view of the Card. They are content, but distant.
Although Yuuka or Utsuho are very thematic against the Sun, this is a card of simple joys. Happiness that should last forever, but may just be a temporary state of mind. Nevertheless, as our Fool advances farther along in their journey, they are likely to reach this state of happiness more and more frequently; they are no longer done however; beyond the view of this temporary happiness lies reality.

XX - Judgement - The Other World.
It is frayed at the edges, and Gensokyo and it clash at the borders; Yukari's gaps peer over two sleeping on a train, vines wind through the pavement, cars careen across unpaved roads. The dead mingle in the streets of what we can consider the real - and in Gensokyo, the youkai are repelled by superior force of arms and sheer disbelief; for even if Gensokyo is powered by such disbelief - a theory of which I am not sure I ascribe - when weaponized, the conflict would be disastrous indeed. The Fool understands; the Hakurei border must be maintained, or the happiness she has sought will forever be lost. Then again, if you subscribe to the alternative Fool and Magician -

XXI - The World - Yukari
In the end it doesn't really matter, does it? Life continues. Gensokyo will be Gensokyo, and our world will be our own. The two may coexist; they may drift closer or apart. In sleep or dreaming they will be watched, regardless of who has learned these lessons. Harmony is found; it was never really lost.

I'm willing to explain my decisions if necessary, as well as talk a bit about the minor arcana if people are interested.

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Re: A Tarot of Gensokyou
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2011, 12:12:35 pm »
"Gensokyo Tarot Cards"

Where do I buy?

Oh, and I can't contribute much to Tarot. I have a vague idea on what this is.


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Re: A Tarot of Gensokyou
« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2011, 12:27:16 pm »
I'm willing to explain my decisions if necessary, as well as talk a bit about the minor arcana if people are interested.

Thoughts on this then?

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Re: A Tarot of Gensokyou
« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2011, 12:32:36 pm »
VIII - Justice - Byakuren
And here I notice the order of our decks differ. Eh? Do I have bootleg cards or something~?
Nah, your deck is based on the older numbering, as seen on the Tarot of Marseille. Justice being swapped with Strength is something the Rider-Waite deck started, probably to have Justice stand right in the middle of the major arcana.
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Re: A Tarot of Gensokyou
« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2011, 12:35:28 pm »
Nah, your deck is based on the older numbering, as seen on the Tarot of Marseille. Justice being swapped with Strength is something the Rider-Waite deck started, probably to have Justice stand right in the middle of the major arcana.

That was A.E. Waite's decision, as he felt previous Tarot decks were too heavy on the Christian imagery. Waite was more informed by Eliphas Levi, the Golden Dawn, and the Rosicrucians, and wanted his deck to be special.

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Re: A Tarot of Gensokyou
« Reply #15 on: July 07, 2011, 12:12:17 am »
Thoughts on this then?

HOW DID I MISS THIS

I'll second the re-imagining of Wands, Cups, Swords and Pentacles/Coins. To lend more thoughts on things - Since the gohei is the tool of initiation, it almost makes sense for it to appear in Major Arcana where it is not traditionally present, especially towards the beginning of the journey. This is my interpretation, however. Since these symbols fit so well with the Minor Arcana, we move on to how best to bring them together - and that's something where I need to absolutely emphasize creativity and the personal beliefs/interpretations of the artist. Each minor arcana is usually created with a motif personal to - but not only relevant to - the artist and creator. That way, the cards spread a bit of their ethos of said theurg wherever they go - if you believe in that sort of thing. For a more practical standpoint, the best way to get results with a deck, or any such thing is to make it personal. While the symbols used represent the story of Gensokyo and the Fool, the deck itself, and especially the Minor Arcana, represent the story of the crafter.

As a side note, the art of ZUN is a perfect example here; although perhaps not 'technically' proficient, it is full of such imagination that even now we are talking about his work and coming up with new interpretations; that is precisely the sort of energy one wants in their deck. That of creative order and creative disorder.

Quote
Nah, your deck is based on the older numbering, as seen on the Tarot of Marseille. Justice being swapped with Strength is something the Rider-Waite deck started, probably to have Justice stand right in the middle of the major arcana.

Ooo- I thought I had the Rider-Waite deck.  :derp: That makes a lot of sense thematically, but I'll leave my layout as is; Justice is a lofty goal, anyway.

Quote
That was A.E. Waite's decision, as he felt previous Tarot decks were too heavy on the Christian imagery. Waite was more informed by Eliphas Levi, the Golden Dawn, and the Rosicrucians, and wanted his deck to be special.

Eliphas Levi~ You know, I feel really bad for Baphomet. A created deity based on a mispronunction of a name, who probably never even existed, imaged as something of a guider of knowledge and protector of monotheists, and what does shi get? Blammed with the devil logo and a bunch of burn-y templars. Anyway, I should actually find the Rider-Waite deck, shouldn't I? Hopefully this won't means that my ramblings aren't too discard-worthy.  :V


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Re: A Tarot of Gensokyou
« Reply #16 on: July 07, 2011, 12:21:20 am »
Not at all. I think it's important that we have people working on the deck who know what the Tarot is about.

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Re: A Tarot of Gensokyou
« Reply #17 on: July 07, 2011, 12:29:29 am »
Thank you! I'm very interested to see how this develops. Projects like this are some of the things I enjoy most in life. :) I'm wondering if there are any other motifs that we could incorporate in; I want to examine the MA card by card, but that might take awhile... After I check the garden, perhaps.

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Re: A Tarot of Gensokyou
« Reply #18 on: July 07, 2011, 12:47:33 am »
Aren't there already like 20+ decks of Touhou tarot cards circulating the market?  You can borrow ideas from those.

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Re: A Tarot of Gensokyou
« Reply #19 on: July 07, 2011, 01:53:51 am »
Aren't there already like 20+ decks of Touhou tarot cards circulating the market?  You can borrow ideas from those.

Yeah, there are a lot of them, but a Tarot deck is something that can take years to really know. Sure, you can look up the definitions online, but this doesn't teach you anything about the archetypes used across the deck, what cohesive theme/mythology they employ, and so other nuances of meaning. I'm only confident in two: the Rider-Waite and, to a lesser extent, the Thoth, also known as the Crowley deck. It seems Tired/Warm is familiar with at least one deck that predates either of them. So it looks like we have a good foundation for how decks are made.

But a deck should really have one cohesive mythology holding it together. Fortunately, we've chosen a theme that already has a rich mythology. The "incidents" of Gensokyo are in a way legends, and their symbolism can be used in the artwork of the cards. A minor event in the Scarlet Mist incident, for example, could be depicted in the Five Hishaku (if we correspond it with the Five of Swords). There's a lot to draw from.

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Re: A Tarot of Gensokyou
« Reply #20 on: July 07, 2011, 10:17:50 am »
I was actually asking my mother about it; apparently, we have used the Marseille deck and variants on it for some time. It's news to me, and interesting news; I'll try to make it's differences relevant and useful, if nothing else as food for thought. Tengukami seems to be extremely schooled in the Rider-Waite/Crowley decks, and Squidtentacles seems to be very competent in it as well. I'm kind of interesting 8blueMegid0's thoughts as well; anyhow you look at it, there is a lot of thought drifting around this thread. The key is to utilized it. It's ultimately up to _cf what to use in the deck and how it's imagery is played with; it is the deck's creator who it's imagery reflects on.

Anyway, Commish' - Borrowing ideas in any form of magic or tradition is generally a bad idea unless you're a hackishly electic Discordian like me those particular traditions and beliefs mesh perfectly with your own. The reason this is so important with Tarot is that, well - you're going to be using it to examine the currents of your life; images and metaphor that resonates with you will create a stronger analysis, or magic if you prefer. It might not sound too sensical, but I can probably explain it better when not exhausted, eheh!

Back to you, Tengukami - I like the idea of using the incidents as Minor Arcana! This is brilliant because not only does it tie them together nicely with the Major Arcana, it reinforces the images we use. The Four of Scrolls could easily be imagined to be Reimu looking within her donation box; it is unclear whether her expression is pleased or annoyed, and whether the box is filled or unfilled. Those familiar with Touhou are likely to know, of course; and the notion of it's emptiness becomes juxtaposed with the trade-off of material rewards for spiritual fulfillment. And as always, the Ten of Fans should be quite interesting indeed..!

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Re: A Tarot of Gensokyou
« Reply #21 on: July 07, 2011, 12:15:15 pm »
Dangit, this topic made me get out my old Raider-Waite deck and I-ching book.

In terms of the major Arcana, I think using a mixture/combination of the interpretations shown here would work quite well at representing the amalgamous nature of the mythology of Gensyoko, albeit I like Squidtentacle's interpretation and Tired/Warms' interpretations the best so far.

I'll get to work on designing a card back, but is there anything anyone would like on it?
 
My current thoughts are:

Quote
An image of two halves-with a faded Ying-Yang sign in the middle over the image of the innards of a pocket watch-not only does this allude to Sakuya and Gensyoko as a whole, but it also is a constant reminder that every action we take will have further consequences-such as how altering the internal parts of the watch will change the time.

On the top half of the card back, The image would show a sun. On the left side of the top would be part of a touhou's hat (I'm thinking Yukari's), with three progressively larger images of Reimu, as drawn by Zun, in chronological order. Not only does this reinforce the progression of time message made by the watch/orb in the centre, but it also alludes to the Wiccan rule of three(If you cast a spell on someone, you can expect to have the effects returned threefold)-which very much relates to the consequences message put in the middle of the back of the card.

Conversely, the 'reverse' position of the card would show the moon, and following much the same pattern as the top. However, the hat top, now at the other side, would be Mima's, and the images of Marisa would get progressively smaller so that the largest reimu is opposite the smallest Marisa, which fits in with the Ying-Yang symbol in the middle, and it's representation of balance.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2011, 12:48:33 pm by Momijibot »

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Re: A Tarot of Gensokyou
« Reply #22 on: July 07, 2011, 03:59:43 pm »
Back to you, Tengukami - I like the idea of using the incidents as Minor Arcana! This is brilliant because not only does it tie them together nicely with the Major Arcana, it reinforces the images we use. The Four of Scrolls could easily be imagined to be Reimu looking within her donation box; it is unclear whether her expression is pleased or annoyed, and whether the box is filled or unfilled. Those familiar with Touhou are likely to know, of course; and the notion of it's emptiness becomes juxtaposed with the trade-off of material rewards for spiritual fulfillment. And as always, the Ten of Fans should be quite interesting indeed..!

I have a feeling this is going to go quite well.

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Re: A Tarot of Gensokyou
« Reply #23 on: July 07, 2011, 10:52:57 pm »
I would like, love to draw a tarot of touhou characters.  That would be legit fun :B

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Re: A Tarot of Gensokyou
« Reply #24 on: July 08, 2011, 11:01:47 am »
Quote
I have a feeling this is going to go quite well.

Seconded; I love how everyone is getting fired up! Momijibot - I love, love *love* the idea for the back of the cards. I wanted to work in the Rule of Three somehow, despite not being a Wiccan myself. It seemed very appropriate not just magically/thematically, but also because of a sort of division and growth of Touhou; PC98, Windows, and fanworks. Actually, I think we could tie in numerology more as well, but that's for another time. In terms of stuff to have on the back... Hrmn. I think that we should incorporate textured textiles akin to the Windows loading screens; if not on the back card (where they could fill in whatever isn't used..?) then in the various suites. Any other ideas?

Here are some ideas for Aces; I feel like the aces, especially, should be careful not to have easily identifiable characters in them. Thoughts? Anyway,  I was going to try to go up to three, but I think starting with Aces is acceptable for now.

For the Ace of Hishaku; a reflecting pool in the light of the moon, perhaps in Hakugyokurou; someone is looking into it, but who should be obscured by a ripple in their reflection; other than that the pool is still and welcoming. The ace itself is collecting water from the pool, although a few drops are about to spill into the pool and alter it forevermore - for better of worse is something that is to come. Whether it will bring love and acceptance, friendship, or distrust - no longer will things be the same. As a side note, I can't find where I put my meaning scrawls; I feel like it's missing something.

Ace of Hachiwa Fans - An unfolded fan whose design displays all of Gensokyo; the design is uncluttered and simple, yet shows off many of the places we know so well. Tiny figures can be seen amongst the unfolded fan, and a single snap could instantly seal their fate. Whatever the questant seeks, they will find through their own power and decisions, decisions that are now inexorably within their hands. I would also be fine with an image of peace interposed against conflict, or anything that suggests both the potential of strong (possibly violent) action and decisions (possibly wrong/stubborn); both of which embody the freedom and demands that Fans place upon the seeker.

Ace of Gohei - The ace hangs above a roaring bonfire someone has used to heat a kettle; the fire is welcome, even beckoning. One could say that it is inviting the seeker to wait warmly. It is unheld and is not in use - representing both the spiritual and mental lessons that the Goehi may impart, and the journey to achieve those lessons. In the background, a Torii can be seen, another indication of the spiritual crossroads that the ace can lead to; and away from the fire stretches a cobbled path, it's choice leading to adventure and power.

Ace of Scrolls - A scroll indicating the beginning of something; perhaps a ledger from the Human Village, or the first edition of the Gensokyo Chronicles. It should be both beautiful to look at, and somewhat unfinished; but the promise of it's completion seems near, and with that completion come both success and accomplishment - a sense of fulfillment at ones own tasks, whether as a simple merchant or a chronicler of all of Gensokyo. It should be laid out in an open-seeming area, to signify the free flow of information and opportunity that the Ace suggests, but again - I want to somehow emphasize that whether or not it is completed depends on the actions of the seeker. Again, any ideas?

-

Please feel free to suggest alternate aces/other cards. To say I'm excited about this is a bit of an understatement!

Quote
I would like, love to draw a tarot of touhou characters.  That would be legit fun :B

This - for my case, just forming the images in my head is a wonderful thing. :D

Awesome sig courtesy of Squawkers23! Thanks!

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Re: A Tarot of Gensokyou
« Reply #25 on: July 08, 2011, 08:48:37 pm »
10 seconds of google

For some reason, image quality sucks ass when i upload by forum. So here is a tinypic link: http://i51.tinypic.com/w9cms8.jpg
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« Last Edit: July 08, 2011, 08:53:35 pm by Helix ⑨ »
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Re: A Tarot of Gensokyou
« Reply #26 on: July 08, 2011, 08:55:46 pm »
10 seconds of google

Unfortunately, this is a very unimaginative Major Arcana. It does not depict any of the meanings of the cards, or employ archetypal symbolism necessary for an accurate reading. It's basically a series of cutesy drawings of Touhou characters.

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Re: A Tarot of Gensokyou
« Reply #27 on: July 10, 2011, 09:13:53 am »
It'd work for Tarot as a game to pass the time, and it's certainly got cute artwork - but generally you want to have symbolism as well. Speaking of symbolism, let's go onto round two!

Two of Hishaku: Shikieiki is dipping her feet into the water of the Sanzu River. At her side, Komachi is pouring them each a cup of tea; they have both fetched water from the river with a Hishaku appiece, both of which lie intercrossed on the ground. They are both enjoying themselves and the freedom from the rigors of their work - this is a rare moment where they are both able to happy in each others presence. It symbolizes the bond of trust between the two, in addition to the complications each faces in their work, and the importance of the reader relying on a friend or friends and a symbol of partnership, in either business or pleasure.

Two of Hachiwa Fans: Youmu is training tirelessly; in her hands are two metal-lined fans, which she holds at either side. Though she wears a blindfold, she has managed to make several cuts in the practice dummy she has set up, and looks serene for her efforts. Hard effort is it's own reward, and just the right amount of confidence can mean the difference between success or failure; in addition, the fact that Youmu is half-ghost emphasizes the two worlds and duality of thought she must posses in her training; to the reader, this translates to a choice between two options, self-confidence, and going with the flow.

Two of Gohei: Medicine Melancholy is tending to the Suzuran flowers; but amidst them have grown two spectacular roses. Medicine's reaction is hard to gauge; they aren't Suzuran, so they aren't her friends - but as she reflects on them, she begins to wonder if it isn't a sign that the whole world could grow lovely Suzuran flowers and be less noisy if they were to spread. The two of gohei indicates ruminations on past actions, and the potential to chart a new course through strength of arms, as well as germination of new ideas and creation of new plans - it is a card of both growth and action.

Two of Scrolls: Hina is spinning around a mountain path; we can see the heat of battle far away, but it has not yet reached her. Perhaps her actions themselves are causing the battle to not accelerate towards her; she has traced a figure-eight which has become a symbol of the infinite and her apotropaic dance is both unknowable but reassuring; we may not know the future or the path it will take us, but if we trust in it and ourselves, then we shall surely find ourselves at a better place to be than the arrival zone of Red-White and Black-White; it is a card of relocation and action with thought.


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Re: A Tarot of Gensokyou
« Reply #28 on: July 10, 2011, 02:24:21 pm »
I might be a bit late on the topic, but I sort of thought about Satori for Hermit.
She's in her own world down there in Chireiden, isolating her self with all but the animals that live down there.
the self searching part was something that I sort of thought about, because she only shows us only one of her 'own' spell cards, and the rest are things that she found in the opposing character's minds.

The second bit I have here is for the Minor Arcana (Although, sadly, I do not know about the stories behind them, and only the rough meanings)
9 of Wands I sort of imagine to be the relation between Kaguya and Mokou; other than the rivalry thing, I sort of think this because this card can also relate to the Touhou take of Kaguya's story.
The hidden part of the Bamboo cutter's story, Mokou.
... Although I have yet to find out how this can be shown as a card....

...
And then again, I'm not too knowledgeable about Tarot cards, so you don't need to take these stuff too seriously.
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