Jojo's Bizarre Mafia: GAME OVER, ROLES WIN!

[Lexicat]

Well, it's true that I completely ignore emotions in my cases.

How do you argue using emotion-based evidence? And how do you tell a scummy response from a town one?

Well, it's kind of the ability to tell the difference between the scum who's trying to appear town (it'll seem really fake) and the sincere townie.
 
It's also the difference between flailing scum and frustrated townie. Both act similarly when you examine only their actions, but it's emotion based reading that differentiates them.
 
In the end, if Mafia were a game in which logic could be used with 100% accuracy to find the scum, it wouldn't be a game. There HAS to be an element of emotional reading and intent tells, or the game wouldn't work. It\s important to incorporate that side of the game into your reads, and use it to narrow your focus. It can be as easy as listening a little more to your gut. It's just important that you don't get side tracked by your logic, because scum can use good logic too.
 

 

[Bardiche]

Well, it's true that I completely ignore emotions in my cases.

How DO you argue using emotion-based evidence? And how do you tell a scummy response from a town one?

What's "emotion-based evidence"?

You say that

...But deep deep down, you really do love us.

I demand evidence to support the claim that "I love you guys deep down".

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Oh yeah.
Dormio gets tired and forgets that it exists QT.

What proof do we need other than the fact that you're so KYUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUT!?

[Lexicat]

What's "emotion-based evidence"?

I demand evidence to support the claim that "I love you guys deep down".

Would you be here if you didn't?

[Bardiche]

Would you be here if you didn't?

Hourai captured my reasons for existing here quite poetically. It's like that cheap breakfast cerial you buy to save some money, and then for some inexplicable reason you eat it every day, though the taste is old, stale and musty.

[Chaore]

Good game.
AND I REALLY COULD BRING BACK TREESTUMPS DAMN IT.
IT'S JUST THAT capt. h WAS GIVEN THE GRAVEYARD, ERGO, NO RESURRECTION.

I totally apologize if my claims you were lying scum aggravated you a bit. 'cause it seems like they aggravated you a bit.

I'm kinda surprised though, I -was- wondering what it was that caused the mod error. Didn't think it was a dead QT.

[Lexicat]

Hourai captured my reasons for existing here quite poetically. It's like that cheap breakfast cerial you buy to save some money, and then for some inexplicable reason you eat it every day, though the taste is old, stale and musty.

Hmmm...
 
That's not healthy~

[capt. h]

Emotion-based evidence is really the only evidence I use.  I do pay some attention to role shenanigans, but not as much as some people I think.  This is why I say what they do isn't nearly as important as why they do it.  Because Townies Are Weird and reading people based on the inevitably weird actions they do will lynch more town than scum simply because there are more townies and because townies are more likely to be incredibly confused.

What to look for is simply asking yourself why they did things.  I'll use your claim as an example because I think you could have claimed any role and I still would have cleared you.  You claimed because you wanted to avoid being lynched yes, but you claimed at a time that would give town time to decide on someone else (rather than panic), you were exceptionally clear in it and the entire thing just read like trying To Get Stuff Out There in case you did get lynched.  In other words, the motivation behind the claim was very clearly townie.

It's kind of like that.  Some things are easier to read than others, and all things get easier to read with more experience.

I thought Shadoweh was talking about something different, considering her LLD clear was "LLD cares what we think about her. Mai didn't. Therefore LLD is town."

But yeah, that makes more sense.

[Bardiche]

You should be fine so long as you stop thinking that all actions taken are well-thought out measures followed in order to reach Ultimate Plan X. Not all people are crafty buggers with ulterior motives who have complete control over all their actions - in fact, I'd argue no one can ever be in complete control of a situation.

I kept chuckling as I read your QT where you claimed LLD was using Refuge In Audacity like I was. I never intentionally did so, and it seemed much less convoluted to assume LLD was being sincerely upset and frustrated.

Some actions are, indeed, the result of a logical reasoning to achieve a certain goal while satisfying a number of conditions. But not everything is. Keep an open mind, and try to consider why they would be doing what they did. Try to empathise and sympathise, then argue why what they do  is not in line with their regular behaviour, or why it doesn't feel sincere.

It's less of a complicated art than it sounds, but understanding people helps a lot. This is why I am not that good at these sort of games, people mystify and confuse me.

[Lexicat]

+1 bard

You should be fine so long as you stop thinking that all actions taken are well-thought out measures followed in order to reach Ultimate Plan X. Not all people are crafty buggers with ulterior motives who have complete control over all their actions - in fact, I'd argue no one can ever be in complete control of a situation.

I kept chuckling as I read your QT where you claimed LLD was using Refuge In Audacity like I was. I never intentionally did so, and it seemed much less convoluted to assume LLD was being sincerely upset and frustrated.

Some actions are, indeed, the result of a logical reasoning to achieve a certain goal while satisfying a number of conditions. But not everything is. Keep an open mind, and try to consider why they would be doing what they did. Try to empathise and sympathise, then argue why what they do  is not in line with their regular behaviour, or why it doesn't feel sincere.

It's less of a complicated art than it sounds, but understanding people helps a lot. This is why I am not that good at these sort of games, people mystify and confuse me.

 
+1

[Shadoweh]

Well, it's true that I completely ignore emotions in my cases.

How do you argue using emotion-based evidence? And how do you tell a scummy response from a town one?

I don't think this question has a straight answer. Rather then calling it emotion-based, it would be better to call it reading for intent, and for motives. For example, Dormio. His vig claim made sense when you took into account he'd been crumbing wanting to vig Lambda since day 1, and he said he wanted to see Lambda's flip anyways on Day 8. He wouldn't expect SHOCKING REVELATIONS to suddenly make Lambda obvtown. His other suspect all game had been capt.h. Dormio gets easily confused with role shenanigans, so fumbling with his claim was expected. Scum Dormio would have shot me because Dormio is a jerk. Serial Killer Dormio wouldn't have leaked his role at all. Therefore, his motives and stumbling play come out townie.

Conversely, Chaore. If you look at what he was saying, then what he was doing, the motives don't mesh. He didn't have a reason to suddenly like Affinity. If anything, Affinity had just claimed to do something pretty scummy with his PX vote. He never provided a reason for his change of mind. His acceptance that Anthy's role could be possible, plus disbelief in Dormio's claim wasn't being reflected in his vote. Anyone that didn't believe Dormio should have voted him on the spot.

The more obvious one is Edible because that is not, in fact, how he rolls. I think he was making fun of Protoman when he said that. >8( The lengths he was going to trying to make Lambda sound scummy were absurb. It was like a parody of Dormio's rage attack on Helepolis in DtB.

My LLD clear was more based on how LLD was doing jumping jacks trying to get people's attention. I don't know why anyone thinks scum want to piss off the entire playerbase. That just leads to getting lynched because people hate you.. Mai didn't care if we weren't listening as long as we weren't lynching HER. LLD was dead set on us Listening To What She Had To Say.

[Edible]

Shadoweh, you haven't seen me get pissed off at anti-town play before this game.  Few players earn my ire like severely anti-town players.  This type of player is a distraction to me as I feel they're better off out of the game, regardless of alignment, because even though I'm aware you can be both anti-town and not aligned with scum, it doesn't mean I'm willing to put up with your shit.  Legends are written of my anti-wrathie bias.

I've made this statement in a few places, and I'll make it here too - my case on Lambda would have happened regardless of my alignment.

[Lexicat]

Shadoweh, you haven't seen me get pissed off at anti-town play before this game.  Few players earn my ire like severely anti-town players.  This type of player is a distraction to me as I feel they're better off out of the game, regardless of alignment, because even though I'm aware you can be both anti-town and not aligned with scum, it doesn't mean I'm willing to put up with your shit.  Legends are written of my anti-wrathie bias.

I've made this statement in a few places, and I'll make it here too - my case on Lambda would have happened regardless of my alignment.

[redacted]
 
:S

[Conqueror]

Serp not being tremendously obvtown scumslayer extraordinaire on D1 means he's scumslayer extraordinaire with a powerful role.  I'm very afraid of him and it's why I had him killed first off. :<

I thought Serp was pretty obvtown, despite it all.

I also thought Edible had to be the scum godfather, trying to attract a cop with his D1 play, but it turns out he was just lazy scum. :V

Well, good work town and Chaore.

[ActionDan]

If only I had Conq to Hydra again, he would have raised my power level by over 9000!

[Shadoweh]

I thought Serp was pretty obvtown, despite it all.

Serp was obvtown. He needs to learn how to not get shot in the face Night 1 more often. >.>

[Edible]

One day we're going to have a game where Kilga, Kiro, Serp, K4U, and Pesco all survive until day 4.

Then the world will effectively end.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

I dunno. A set-up with 5 bulletproofs seems a little imbalanced to me.

[PX]

You forget Zak. Zak past N1 is scum.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Zak's meta is dying before D2 and then later dying a second time, not just dying N1.

[WHMZakeri]

Zak's meta is dying before D2 and then later dying a second time, not just dying N1.

Unless of course, I'm an investigative role, in which I proceed to flounder around and not catch scum for as much of the game as possible.

[ActionDan]

Which game is it Zak dies twice?

[Affinity]

Sorry for being somewhat lackluster towards the end of the game.  Felt somewhat tired and lost the fire shortly after the Schezo lynch for some reason, since I could only be online once every 24 hours most of the time, and had to do so in a noisy cybercafe with DoTA distracting me from time to time.  The PX v Chaore thing was argh, and I should really have went for Chaore in the first place for Dan's play and his rather strangely put first post.  Also, I think my Dormio case and my refusal to give something on Anthony to Shadoweh was pretty bad.  I'm never ever voting an easy target ever again except as an alternative.  Though I doubt I would have ever believed that Edible was scum, though.

Well, congrats Shadoweh for the smart witholding of reads and role information, and generally great townie play overall, especially the last burst on Chaore.  The sudden misplacement of scum rankings in Chaore's case was a nice catch, but not an easy one (i thought that point was wrong for some time).  Chaore, as everybody has said, almost saved the game, though there were some cracks which could have been hidden a little more.  Anthony, I am also rather impressed at how concisely he gave his views and dissected the situation (though not completely correctly), and if he were more willing to commit onto bandwagons, I think he would be a good player. 

As for PX, I take back what I said about him having some potential back in JK9; I agree with capt's saying that he is getting worse and worse each game, with such dubious goals as 'surviving as long as possible as vanilla townie'.  LLD has to start toning down her rhetoric and considering what other cases are being given in addition to hers; I get the feeling that she can't see past her own cases, reads, and tells, which makes her rather abrasive and tough to play with regardless of alignment.  Schezo should have answered the heart of the question which I gave to him, and remained calm in face of K4U's little gambit, but his roleclaim did at least mislead a certain number of people. 

Also, the setup clicked rather well (except for Shadoweh's role, which should have been 1-shot)!  Is it true that I was the only vanilla townie in the game?

[Shadoweh]

I am so sorry for being such a huge pain in the ass, Affinity. I think you were doing a fine job of telling me to stop being dumb at the end. :3 We don't have to be enemies every game! Friends 4ever. <^_^> hey so about the next game's power roles..

[Bardiche]

Affinity: Yes, but PX was also sort-of Vanilla, and when we made the Governor we treated it as functionally Vanilla.

[UncertainJakutten]

All right, fine, let me post roles. Four corrections needed to happen that were just me brainfarting. One, I had to tell Omba his roleblock was only 4 Game Days, and two, I had to tell PX that yes, he was Jotaro KUJO, not Jotaro Joestar, because I forgot my JJBA. Three, the mafia win con needed to become "When you control 50% or more of the votes", not "more than 50% of the votes". Four, Schezo WAS supposed to have a passive that made him show as town to investigations. GUESS WHAT I FORGOT TO ADD TO THE PM :VVVVVVV

I don't RECALL any other changes, but there might have been. Again, these are my QT notes, not my dynamic home notes.

These are before names, I'll give you the name list as well. Also, each PM was *supposed* to initially have a quote, but I couldn't find any soooooooooooooo~ (See, my notes at HOME actually have names and everything)

"INSERT QUOTE HERE"

Welcome to Jojo's Bizarre Mafia, PLAYERNAME. You are Diavolo, Townie Time Eater. You have the following abilities:

Passive Abilities:
Stand: You have a Stand named King Crimson
Points: You start the game with 0 points. Every Game Day that passes, you gain 10 points.
One More Red Nightmare: Whenever you would be targetted by an ability, you lose 15 points. You learn the name of the person that targetted you and roleblock them. If you do not have 15 points, this ability does not activate.

Active Abilities:
Rewind (40 Points): If a player is roleblocked by One More Red Nightmare, you may activate this ability within one Game Day of roleblocking them. If you do, the 10 second period in which you were targetted is completely erased, and the player that targetted you is killed. Kill method is Erased.

Win Condition (Town): You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.

----------------------------------------------------------- ----------

"INSERT QUOTE HERE"

Welcome to Jojo's Bizarre Mafia, PLAYERNAME. You are Dio Brando, Town Time Stopper. You have the following abilities:

Passive Abilities:
Stand: You have a Stand named The World
Points: You start the game with 0 points. Every Game Day that passes, you gain 10 points.
I, Dio: To use any of your active abilities, you must declare them in bold in thread. This is in addition to submitting the action to the game moderator (i.e., if you use ZA WARUDO, you need to post ZA WARUDO in thread to activate it. No double octothorpe required)

Active Abilities:
Toki Wo Tomare (30 Points): Time stops for 1/2 of a Game Day. (Time period does not count for any time based point gain, all ability resolution or activation is delayed until after this time period)
ZA WARUDO (50 points): Time stops for 1 Game Day.
ROAD ROLLER (80 points): Time stops for 2 Game Days.
WRRRRRRRRRRRRRYYYYY (120 points): Time stops for 3 Game Days.
Dio's World (200 points): Time stops for 5 Game Days.
Soshite, toki wa ugokidasu (0 Points): All time stopping effects initiated by you are ended.

Win Condition (Town): You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.

----------------------------------------------------------- ----------

"INSERT QUOTE HERE"

Welcome to Jojo's Bizarre Mafia, PLAYERNAME. You are Joseph Joestar, Town Badass. You have the following abilities:

Passive Abilities:
Stand: You have a Stand named Purple Hermit
Points: You start the game with 0 points. Every Game Day that passes, you gain 10 points.

Active Abilities:[/i
Vinefield (100 points): You gain the passive ability Untouchable for the next four Game Days.
 Untouchable (Passive): All actions targetting you fail.

Win Condition (Town): You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.

----------------------------------------------------------- ----------

Robert E.O. Speedwagon (Town Self Sacrificing Roleblocker):

30 points: Target player is roleblocked for the next 4 game days. If you would prevent a kill this way, you die.

"INSERT QUOTE HERE"

Welcome to Jojo's Bizarre Mafia, PLAYERNAME. You are Robert E.O. Speedwagon, Town Interfering Roleblocker. You have the following abilities:

Passive Abilities:
Points: You start the game with 0 points. Every Game Day that passes, you gain 10 points.
Did I Get In The Way?: If your roleblock prevents a kill, you block the kill and die instead.

Active Abilities:
Interfering Speedwagon (30 Points): You roleblock target player.

Win Condition (Town): You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.

--------------------------------------------------------- ------------

"INSERT QUOTE HERE"

Welcome to Jojo's Bizarre Mafia, PLAYERNAME. You are Giorno Giovana, Town Endless Vigilante. You have the following abilities:

Passive Abilities:
Stand: You have a Stand named Gold Experience
Points: You start the game with 0 points. Every Game Day that passes, you gain 10 points.
Single Requiem: You can only Endless Vig one person at a time. If you choose another Endless Vig, the first target is revived as a treestump.

Active Abilities:
Requiem (80 Points): You kill target player. Target player continually dies.

Win Condition (Town): You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.

----------------------------------------------------------- ----------

Rudolf von Stroheim (Town Jack of All Trades)

150 points: Investigate target player
125 points: Roleblock all players for the next 4 game days
100 points: Protect Target Player for the next 4 game days
85 points: If you would be killed during the 4 game days and you use this ability, you instead come back as a treestump
50 points: Send an anonymous message to target player

"INSERT QUOTE HERE"

Welcome to Jojo's Bizarre Mafia, PLAYERNAME. You are Rudolf Von Stroheim, Townie Nazi Army Knife. You have the following abilities:

Passive Abilities:
Points: You start the game with 0 points. Every Game Day that passes, you gain 10 points.

Active Abilities:
Secret Nazi Database (150 Points): Investigate target player.
Lockdown (125 Points): Roleblock all players for the next 4 Game Days.
Full Metal Body (100 Points): Protect target player for the next 4 Game Days.
Tough As Nails (85 Points): If you would be killed during the next 4 Game Days, you instead come back as a treestump.
Efficient Messenger (50 Points): You may send an anonymous message to target player through the mod.

Win Condition (Town): You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.

----------------------------------------------------------- ----------

"INSERT QUOTE HERE"

Welcome to Jojo's Bizarre Mafia, PLAYERNAME. You are Hol Horse, Town Neighborizer. You have the following abilities:

Passive Abilities:
Stand: You have a Stand named Emperor
Points: You start the game with 0 points. Every Game Day that passes, you gain 10 points.

Active Abilities:
A Partnership of Necessity (50 Points): Target player becomes a Neighbor to you. You will be able to talk in a QT at any time.

Win Condition (Town): You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.

----------------------------------------------------------- ----------

"INSERT QUOTE HERE"

Welcome to Jojo's Bizarre Mafia, PLAYERNAME. You are Polnareff, Townie Stand User. You have the following abilities:

Passive Abilities:
Stand: You have a Stand named Silver Chariot
Points: You start the game with 0 points. Every Game Day that passes, you gain 10 points.

Active Abilities:
You have no active abilities

Win Condition (Town): You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.

----------------------------------------------------------- ----------

"INSERT QUOTE HERE"

Welcome to Jojo's Bizarre Mafia, PLAYERNAME. You are Jotaro Joestar, Informed Townie. You have the following abilities:

Passive Abilities:
Stand: You have a Stand named Star Platinum
Points: You start the game with 0 points. Every Game Day that passes, you gain 10 points.
Pursuit: You know that ZA WARUDO is an ability in this game, and that Dio Brando holds it.

Active Abilities:
You have no active abilities

Win Condition (Town): You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.

--------------------------------------------------------- ------------

"INSERT QUOTE HERE"

Welcome to Jojo's Bizarre Mafia, PLAYERNAME. You are Funny Valentine, Town Governor. You have the following abilities:

Passive Abilities:
Stand: You have a Stand named Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap
Points: You start the game with 0 points. Every Game Day that passes, you gain 10 points.

Active Abilities:
Presidential Pardon (30 Points): You prevent target player's lynch for the next 3 Game Days.

Win Condition (Town): You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.

------------------------------------------------------------- --------

"INSERT QUOTE HERE!"

Welcome to Jojo's Bizarre Mafia, PLAYERNAME. You are Enrico Pucci, Mafia Accelerator. You have the following abilities:
Factional Abilities
Buddies!: You are in the Mafia with PLAYERNAME, Josuke Higashikata, and PLAYERNAME, Yoshikage Kira You may talk to each other at anytime in this quicktopic
Mafia Kill: You can execute the Mafia kill by targetting a player at night. Your kill method is "Shanked"
Mafia Falseclaim: At any time during the game, as many times as you want, you may send me a character name and a list of abilities and I will construct a fake role PM for you.

Passive Abilities:
Stand: You have a Stand named Stairway to Heaven
Points: You start the game with 0 points. Every Game Day that passes, you gain 10 points.

Active Abilities:
Accelerate (10 Points): You reduce the Game Day by 30 Life Minutes (i.e., if the Game Day is 24 Life Hours, you reduce it to 23.5 Life Hours)
Disc Extraction (30 Points): You demoralize a player for the next 4 Game Days. (Demoralize effectively makes someone vanilla for the duration of the ability).

Win Condition (Mafia): You win when the mafia controls more than 50% of the votes

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"INSERT QUOTE HERE!"

Welcome to Jojo's Bizarre Mafia, PLAYERNAME. You are Josuke Higashikata, Mafia Doctor. You have the following abilities:
Factional Abilities
Buddies!: You are in the Mafia with PLAYERNAME, Enrico Pucci, and PLAYERNAME, Yoshikage Kira You may talk to each other at anytime in this quicktopic
Mafia Kill: You can execute the Mafia kill by targetting a player at night. Your kill method is "Shot"
Mafia Falseclaim: At any time during the game, as many times as you want, you may send me a character name and a list of abilities and I will construct a fake role PM for you.

Passive Abilities:
Stand: You have a Stand named Crazy Diamond
Points: You start the game with 0 points. Every Game Day that passes, you gain 10 points.

Active Abilities:
Protect (50 Points): Protect Target Player for the next 4 game days.
Protect Everyone (150 Points): Protect all Players for the next 4 game days.

Win Condition (Mafia): You win when the mafia controls more than 50% of the votes

------------------------------------------------------------- --------

"INSERT QUOTE HERE!"

Welcome to Jojo's Bizarre Mafia, PLAYERNAME. You are Yoshikage Kira, Mafia Repeater Godfather. You have the following abilities:

Factional Abilities
Buddies!: You are in the Mafia with PLAYERNAME, Enrico Pucci, and PLAYERNAME, Josuke Higashikata You may talk to each other at anytime in this quicktopic
Mafia Kill: You can execute the Mafia kill by targetting a player at night. Your kill method is "Burned"
Mafia Falseclaim: At any time during the game, as many times as you want, you may send me a character name and a list of abilities and I will construct a fake role PM for you.

Passive Abilities:
Stand: You have a Stand named Killer Queen
Points: You start the game with 0 points. Every Game Day that passes, you gain 10 points.

Active Abilities:
Another One Bites The Dust (100 Points): Once per game, if you would be lynched or killed in the next 4 Game Days after you use this ability, instead the day/night phase restarts without your death.
Reach Out And ##Touch Someone (50 Points): Target player becomes a bomb for the next 4 Game Days. This ability resolves 1 Game Day after activation

Win Condition (Mafia): You win when the mafia controls more than 50% of the votes

------------------------------------------------------------- --------
1. Shadoweh x Dorian Gray OTP: Diavolo
2. Lady LambdaDelta: Dio Brando
3. Zakeri: Joseph Joestar
4. Omba: Robert E.O. Speedwagon
5. Durrmio: Giovana Giorno
6. Serpentarius: Rudolf Von Stronheim
7. Kitten4U: Hol Horse
8. Affinity: Jean Pierre Polnareff
9. PX (a.k.a Fuck You And Your Moon Runes): Jotaro Kujo
10. capt.h x Kiro OTP: Funny Valentine
11. Edible x Edible OTP: Enrico Pucci
12. ActionDan: Josuke Higashikata
13. Schezo: Yoshikage Kira

Fun facts: There were four ways to kill Shadoweh outside of lynching her. One, Durrmio vigs her. The endless vig is a direct counter to the block/rewind power. Two, she hammers/rewinds a bomb. Three, Edible Disc Extracts her and then kills her. And four, action spamming her until she runs out of points (duh).

Stands were purely a red herring. Also, abilities costing 150 to 200 points were mostly trolling people. If they managed to drag things out to the point of using them, I'd have been very impressed.

Scum doctor was of course proveable claim bait.

Town having so many blocking roles was intentional, as well as having almost no investigative roles. I had a complete brain fart designing Shadoweh's role, as we been over several times.

I can't think of anything else, but this set up WAS fun to design, and I feel it was more or less a good set up, outside of Shadoweh's broken ass role. It was interesting seeing it play out.

[Hanged Hourai]

The spot I would have had rolled scum. ;_;
brb hanging myself

[Kitten4u]

Can we have a link to the mod QT?

[Chaore]

...so you gave -TOWN- the direct counter to a -TOWN- ability.

uk that isn't how balancing works

[UncertainJakutten]

It's how it works for MotK town, Chaore !

More seriously, the problem isn't that I did that. It's that the role being countered was RIDICULOUSLY OP. I wasn't trying to balance against the overpoweredness. I was just doing something for the lulz. If I were balancing for the overpoweredness, yeah, scum would have had that role.