Jojo's Bizarre Mafia: GAME OVER, ROLES WIN!

[Shadoweh]

This is an interesting post.
 First off, I feel misrepresented. Show me exactly where I have claimed that my miller claim makes me obv town?
 All I have said is that it doesn't make me obv scum. (Which is what Dormio is trying to imply).
 Secondly, I missed that 24 hour suggestion. Probably because it's so incredibly dense.

You are acting like someone attacking you is obvious scum. This carries the implication that somehow what you have done has made you obvious town. The truth is you became a good lynch FOR TOWN the moment you claimed, and you should know that. Also that the claim in and of itself is WIFOM. Personally I like having something sensical to argue about this early. If you missed the 24 hour argument maybe you should go read Action Dan's posts and comment on his suggestion about lynching UK as a test. (Cut by you doing that, okay) How long do you think we should wait to do lynches?

[Omba]

That said, Omba's posts are extremely fluffy. She doesn't give any opinion either way about Shadoweh, K4U, or LLD and her miller claim, and her reasons for voting Action Dan are vague. For someone that's fairly active, she sure doesn't have any strong opinions.

What. I wrote my opinion about LLD's claim. It's at the top of this page, actually.
My reason for voting ActionDan isn't vague, either. It's that he's prioritizing speculation over finding scum. He even entertains the thought of spending our first lynch on that speculation.

As for how LLD reacted to Dormio. What she did does carry the possibility of tripping over town instead of scum. But, so does pretty much any reaction fishing. Still a nulltell, just like her claim earlier was.

Furthermore, where's your opinion on the things you're asking me about? The only two people you've directly mentioned are LLD, me and to an extent Dormio.
Nothing for me to currently write about Shadoweh or K4U. Given that you would have wanted me to mention something about them, what do -you- find interesting about what they have posted?

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

If you can be 100% certain I am using the tactic, prove it.
 
Otherwise, you lose this argument because you cannot show what you are stating as "true" to be any more likely than what I am stating to be 'true".

Isn't it beautiful how your claim can only be truly proven by your flip?
If I had a vig shot right now, I would shoot you on the spot.
Alas, I lack the aforementioned ability and must kindly petition for any vig out there to shoot Lady Lambdadelta.
In the meantime, I shall push for your lynch as an alternate method of proving that I'm right.

[UncertainJakutten]

The Fourth "Battle Tendency" Vote Count

Mod Note: No clarifications appear necessary at this time.

Lady LambdaDelta (1): Dormio
Omba (3): Affinity, Schezo, Capt. h
Zakeri (0)
ActionDan (4): Shadoweh, Omba, PX, Zakeri
PX (0)
capt.h (0)
Schezo (0)
Serpentarius (0)
Kitten4U (0)
Shadoweh (1): Serpentarius
Dormio (1): LLD 
Affinity (1): Kitten4U
Edible (0)
blehdibleh (1): Edible
UncertainKitten (1): ActionDan

Not Voting (0)

ActionDan is at L-3
With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch
Game Day One Ends at 1:00 AM, EDT, Thursday (today is Wednesday)

[Lexicat]

Isn't it beautiful how your claim can only be truly proven by your flip?
If I had a vig shot right now, I would shoot you on the spot.
Alas, I lack the aforementioned ability and must kindly petition for any vig out there to shoot Lady Lambdadelta.
In the meantime, I shall push for your lynch as an alternate method of proving that I'm right.

Yeah, NOW you start talking about using a vig on me. After I called it something town might do.
 
No, it's too late for you.
 
Further, haven't I already talked about how my role is only provable after I die? I am pretty sure I did.
 
I'd like to know why that is justification for my death at this point. It is literally no different than say, you being confirmed scum until you die?
 
So should we just shoot you, so we can confirm YOU as scum?
 
Your logic is flawed. And considering that this is your ONLY reason for wanting me dead, it means you are saying you want me dead because... you want me dead.
 
GREAT JOB. TOWN TOTALLY DOES THIS. ALL THE TIME. YEP. /sarcasm
 
@Shadoweh: I'm not saying I'm confirmed or obvious town by any means. What I am saying is that Dormio is scum, and it's not because he attacked ME in general. I would have voted him for this had he attacked ANY miller claim like this.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

I wanted to see your flip as soon as you claimed miller.
You have yet to tell me what reasons town would have to claim miller in the first place, especially un-pressured town.
I apologize for being unable to reply instantly to your points, especially if you post them en masse. I suppose replying slowly makes me scum.
And I want you dead because I think you're scum.

[capt. h]

What. I wrote my opinion about LLD's claim. It's at the top of this page, actually.
My reason for voting ActionDan isn't vague, either. It's that he's prioritizing speculation over finding scum. He even entertains the thought of spending our first lynch on that speculation.

As for how LLD reacted to Dormio. What she did does carry the possibility of tripping over town instead of scum. But, so does pretty much any reaction fishing. Still a nulltell, just like her claim earlier was.

Furthermore, where's your opinion on the things you're asking me about? The only two people you've directly mentioned are LLD, me and to an extent Dormio.
Nothing for me to currently write about Shadoweh or K4U. Given that you would have wanted me to mention something about them, what do -you- find interesting about what they have posted?

K4U and by extension K4U v. Dan consists of unnecessary escalation, K4U leaping at a joke vote, Dan not voting or giving an opinion on K4U, and K4U concentrating on minor points.

That said, I think Dan is worse for the encounter. K4U is typically an extremely quiet scum, to the point where she outlurks herself. I don't think she would end RVS as scum. Whereas Dan didn't really give any strong opinions on K4U.

Shadoweh has been saying what I'm thinking; Lambda's claim itself introduces a lot of Wifom. Shadoweh doesn't look very scummy to me.

What's your read on the exchange K4U and Dan had at the end of the RVS stage?

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

And, oh, yes.
Claiming miller for no reason and attacking anyone that thinks you look scummy for it is so obvtown. /sarcasm

[Lexicat]

I claimed Miller for a few reasons:
 
1) It draws in the scum. (See: Yourself)
2) It saves the cop from having to waste an investigation on me,.
3) It stimulates discussion, and gets town out of RVS.
 

[PX]

Kitten4u:  That vote was not in fact, purely a joke vote.  We have the option to lynch people not directly in the game, and I was wondering if anybody was actually going to consider that seriously as I did (this line of argument made sense at the time).  As a serious option to secure a "lynch" without voting for a player at the end of the day, I was also looking out for reactions to the idea. 

Capt, that was clearly not a joke vote. Declared by ActionDan himself.

Opinions on Miller claim and following: :V

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

I claimed Miller for a few reasons:
 
1) It draws in the scum. (See: Yourself)
2) It saves the cop from having to waste an investigation on me,.
3) It stimulates discussion, and gets town out of RVS.

You forget the part where you:

• Dissuade cops from investigating you, as well as leaving yourself an excuse for a scum result if they do.
• Confuse town.
• Attack anyone that attacks you.
• Spin your actions to make you appear obvtown.

Because your claim was the paradigm of town behaviour, right?

[Lexicat]

See, where as I have actual reasoning why you are scum...
 
YOU are simply sitting around with your hand on your dick going "HERP DERP MILLER CLAIMS ARE SCUM CLAIMS"
 
You're amazing at this game, you know right?
 
You're the best to ever play.

So, uh, this is kind of being a bit of a jackass, sorry Lambda. Could you tone it down a little? (Yeah, I know, I'm one to talk)

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

See, where as I have actual reasoning why you are scum...
 
YOU are simply sitting around with your hand on your dick going "HERP DERP MILLER CLAIMS ARE SCUM CLAIMS"
 
You're amazing at this game, you know right?
 
You're the best to ever play.

Yeah, OMGUS, best reasoning ever, am I right?
I also like the part where you ask "Show me where I use WIFOM? All I did was claim Miller." as if claiming miller isn't WIFOM by itself.
And, indeed, I am the best at this game.

[Lexicat]

Yeah, OMGUS, best reasoning ever, am I right?

KILL.
IT.
WITH.
FIRE.
 
HOW ABOUT ALL THOSE OTHER POINTS I BROUGHT UP HUH? THAT CASE I POSTED HUH?
 
YOU GONNA TRY AND DISCREDIT ME BY BRUSHING IT OFF AS OMGUS?
 
Real town doesn't Discredit arguments like you are doing now. Real town would attempt to dissect them point by point.
 
You are simply scum still pushing that terribad logic trying to get the D1 mislynch.
 

[WHMZakeri]

While I understand the sentiment of wanting to vig a claimed miller (it's pretty common practice), most town players will treat the Miller claim as secondary, and attempt to read the claimed miller like they would any other townie first.
 
So if you can justify some kind of scum intent read on me, I'm perfectly happy to take a bullet.
 
But I'm not going to condone a shot being taken at a miller, solely because they are a miller. That makes you no better that Durrmeow over here.

"Most Town players will treat the Miller Claim as secondary"
Note: Zakeri is not voting LLD
Note 2: Zakeri is commenting on the miller claim, and throwing a hope for a vig as he considers the miller claim as a secondary option behind ActionDan
"Zakeri is as scummy as Dormio for the way he commented on me."

how about you stop trying to weasel around the fact that people are suspicion of you for claiming an anti-town role that scum would use to get out of being cop investigated, and just let your scumhunting do the talking. If you throw suspicions at people who are suspicion of you, you're only going to hit more townies than mafia. Unless you honestly think a Vig is going to leap out of the bushes and shoot you just because I said they should.

[Lexicat]

I feel misrepresented. I did not call you as scummy as Dormio.
 
Asking that you consider giving me a chance to play the fucking game and let people get a read on me before you authorize the vig shot.
 
I was saying that to simply want me vigged D1 would be as bad as the lynch Dormio is pushing. I didn't say as SCUMMY.
 
You're actually my only town read right now, so I don't know how you got that I thought you were scum out of that @_@

[Lexicat]

Oh, and I am scum hunting.
 
Note that I'm not pushing everyone who calls me scum.
 
I'm simply pushing the person who hopped on the miller claim the fastest.
 
Because scum would want to push that claim HARD.

[Omba]

What's your read on the exchange K4U and Dan had at the end of the RVS stage?

Null. Hence why I haven't commented on it. It looks like an exchange that just went nowhere. And I've only ever read both of them when they were town, so no useful meta read on them there, either. The whole exchange is something they might write if they're town. Might, that is - hence, null.
Though now that I'm considering meta, that speculation could be something Dan'd do as town. He is the one that once suggested getting himself modkilled. Well, shit. I'll have to see what he does once he drops the speculation.

##Unvote

Dormio: Consider that I deliberately played like scum last game to get people to derp attack me. As town. Whereas LLD has spent all of one post on getting people to attack her.
The more you tunnel in on her for that, the less you look like derp town (and instead start looking like scum).

##Vote: Dormio

PX: Opinions on anyone that is not Dan or Schezo? (something more than :V if possible)

[WHMZakeri]

how did I get cut with 20 posts without even being told?

I claimed Miller for a few reasons:
 
1) It draws in the scum. (See: Yourself)
2) It saves the cop from having to waste an investigation on me,.
3) It stimulates discussion, and gets town out of RVS.

I'll give you the last two, but I disagree with the first. You're more likely to attract townies with loud attitudes than scum looking for an easy bandwagon. I don't think Dormio is scum for attacking you, and I think you calling him out for attacking you is nothing short of confirmation bias as a result of your petty argument.

I feel misrepresented. I did not call you as scummy as Dormio.
 
Asking that you consider giving me a chance to play the fucking game and let people get a read on me before you authorize the vig shot.
 
I was saying that to simply want me vigged D1 would be as bad as the lynch Dormio is pushing. I didn't say as SCUMMY.
 
You're actually my only town read right now, so I don't know how you got that I thought you were scum out of that @_@

How else am I suppose to parse "That makes you no better that [the person I'm voting for] over here."? Of course, now that you've cleared up that you're not attacking me, I don't feel any scum motivation in your posting anymore.

[Lexicat]

I... want to apologize for what I've been saying...
 
I've sort of fallen into a spiral of rage in my more recent games, mostly due to people bashing me and basically beating down my opinions as if they were of little consequence.
 
So I've been yelling and retaliating and... things have not gone well from there.
 
I've gotten off the path of how I want to play this game... and I'm really sorry...
 
(In no way does this change any of my opinions or reads in this game... I'm just changing how I express them. )

[capt. h]

Null. Hence why I haven't commented on it. It looks like an exchange that just went nowhere. And I've only ever read both of them when they were town, so no useful meta read on them there, either. The whole exchange is something they might write if they're town. Might, that is - hence, null.
Though now that I'm considering meta, that speculation could be something Dan'd do as town. He is the one that once suggested getting himself modkilled. Well, shit. I'll have to see what he does once he drops the speculation.

Omba, "null" is an excuse not to give out reads. It means you feel no differently about the players in question after their exchange. In Dan v. K4U, K4U attacked Dan for a vote on the mod (which PX corrected me as "not a vote", but K4U didn't know it when she began her attack), attacked Dan for defending Affinity, and admitted to playing completely differently than she usually would play. Meanwhile, Dan declared his vote for the mod as serious and offered fairly wishy-washy opinions on K4U. I don't think Dan v. K4U is town v. town, and I think Dan is likely to be scum as a result. However, the way you post null reads on the actions of a lot of other players and not really commit to any opinions on them is worse.

Explain why you would expect K4U and Dan to be no more likely to argue as they did if one of them was scum than if both of them were town.

[Kitten4u]

Getting this post out there.  Will post a real post soon (read: probably sooner than 2 hours from now).

@Lambda
I think there's enough stuff out there to make a case on another person, or at least post some basic reads.  It looks like you tried to do a little of that, but right now I think it would be helpful to take a step back and look at other people.  Is there anyone else you find suspicious?

@Dormio
Same goes for you.

@Capt. H
Why are you voting for Omba and not either Dan or me if you think our spat wasn't town vs town?

[Kitten4u]

EBWOP

Forgot Dan

@Dan
Vote for someone.  No, you are not voting for anyone right now.

[Omba]

Explain why you would expect K4U and Dan to be no more likely to argue as they did if one of them was scum than if both of them were town.

Because I can read what both have written as something that could be town-motivated. If I can do that and one option does not seem much more likely than the other, it's a null read. The only thing about that which actually stuck out to me was Dan's speculation. Which I since remembered is something he just tends to do. As long as I have no flips connected to them, I only look at players individually, not in groups. How I should be able to discern the difference you're asking me about is beyond me.

LLD: Shame. I for one actually like reading posts that are written in an aggressive style.

[Lexicat]

Because I can read what both have written as something that could be town-motivated. If I can do that and one option does not seem much more likely than the other, it's a null read. The only thing about that which actually stuck out to me was Dan's speculation. Which I since remembered is something he just tends to do. As long as I have no flips connected to them, I only look at players individually, not in groups. How I should be able to discern the difference you're asking me about is beyond me.

LLD: Shame. I for one actually like reading posts that are written in an aggressive style.

I can't be that person anymore. I have been playing that persona for a while now in games, because it was the only way to be heard, and I can't take it anymore because I can't take feeling horrible everytime I post a message.
 

[Serp]

ActionDan:  Claiming scum reads without following that with a vote is what's called cheerleading.  Essentially, it lets you push a case into the spotlight without actually being connected to it.  Notice the way that after you accused K4u of "under the stable" stuff, which is implicitly scummy, your next posts only mentioned K4u as far as necessary to defend yourself and instead went after Shadoweh.  It leaves too much room for you to retroactively define your opinions.  Placing down a vote might not have any game effect up until the hammer is dropped, but that doesn't mean that voting is pointless.  You really should understand this already, and the way that you keep stretching more and more to justify your lack of a vote looks scummy.  Trying too hard to resist having any criticism of your actions stick.  Come back, clarify your scum reads with regard to each other, and place a real vote.

Lambda:  Explain for us why scum want to go after the Miller.

Regarding day time, 24 hours is definitely too short for us to pick good lynches.  48 hours may possibly be good, just in case scum gets kills based on how much time passes instead of each lynch the town performs.  But doing junk lynches on the mod and such is not something we should do, just in case scum gets kills based on each lynch the town performed instead of over the passage of time.  Not to mention that mobilizing for a mod lynch takes time and attention away from the task of actually looking for scum.  It's all setup speculation, but we should probably try and take a moderate strategy between the possibilities.

So, if the town has already basically agreed on a lynch after 48 hours, getting a lynch in before the end of the day might be smart, but if there's still meaningful discussion going on, waiting the full 72 is fine.  Going all the way to 96 probably wouldn't be good unless there's really some important stances being determined.

capt. h:  Your Omba vote looks scummy to me.  At the time you placed it, you were guilty of the same thing you were accusing him of.  Now he's explained his thought process, and you've explained yours.  You're on even ground as far as your explanations of your stances are, and your most recent post said more about Dan's scumminess than it did about Omba's.  It looks like you're just parking your vote.

##Unvote
##Vote: capt. h

[Shadoweh]

THE ONLY ONE ALLOWED TO CARRY ON UNLIMITED RAGE WORKS HERE IS ME!
hey I just woke up are we fightan or something

Lambda, just forget about it and give us some opinions on people, like that Omba guy who's post you quoted. Girl. Whatever Omba is. Omba scum?
I'd swear there were a few more players in this game but where did they go? Oh there's one sayin a bunch of stuff I was thinking. I think it is likely scum will get kills based on both Serp if we take way too long to make a choice. This is based off a game I stalked Lambda and UK playing before. I don't think UK would give free kills before a decent amount of time passes, hence thinking 72 hours.

That Action Dan guy disappeared too, I'm feeling all lonely in activity besides Stalker Dormio.

[Edible]

Hum.  Discarding Dan's lynch-UK nonsense (it's nonsense) and Lambda's miller claim (it's optimal play for a real town miller and as previously stated, saves us a cop check if it's a scum gambit and deserves no further analysis), I'm still super annoyed because both of them used stupid gotcha games in early day 1.  Lambda especially comes off bad here, because she even has a back-up plan if someone doesn't step on her first gotcha landmine.  I dislike both, but I feel Lambda has more intent behind her posts, which is not necessarily bad, but... it's a thing that bothers me.  So:

##vote Lambda

@Lambda: When you claimed you thought Shadoweh was the scummiest person available, was that solely because you were attempting to gotcha people, or did you actually have meat to your claim?

(I'm glad you've calmed down; let's keep things as civil as possible \o/)

Zak keeps saying a lot of stuff I want to say, which makes me feel good about him.

Cut by Serp - I'm glad I'm not the only one who's still kinda confused by the time stuff.  I should add to your suggestion re: 48/72-hour lynches that such a "soft" limitation on our votes is probably optimal for another reason: given what typically happens around here when we play on extremely long days.  We tend to start puttering around and either repeating arguments or letting the game drag on.  I will say as long as we have something fresh to discuss and activity is good, we should hold off on lynches.

[Lexicat]

When did I claim Shadoweh was the scummiest person available?
 
I never gave ANY reason for my votes.
 
The Shadoweh vote was really to see if any scum would take that bait.
 
But the scum took the Miller bait instead.

[Edible]

When did I claim Shadoweh was the scummiest person available?
 
I never gave ANY reason for my votes.

Upon doublechecking, it looks like you didn't!  I apparently remembered one of Dan's posts as your own, because he responded for you to a question Omba asked of you.  Hahaha! :colonveeplusalpha:
 

The Shadoweh vote was really to see if any scum would take that bait.

Well, at least you admit it.

Grumble.