Author Topic: RPG Mafia thread (Path of Radiance ongoing)  (Read 58790 times)

J.O.B

  • YOU CAN'T MAKE ME CHANGE
Re: RPG Mafia thread (Magical Madness Ongoing)
« Reply #450 on: August 05, 2011, 09:26:00 AM »
I find I have a disadvantage when playing alone.

Bardiche

  • Mafia: Worst Game Ever
Re: RPG Mafia thread (Magical Madness Ongoing)
« Reply #451 on: August 05, 2011, 09:29:15 AM »
Says the guy who isn't even /in. I hate anon games and I'm still doing my part to fill up the playerlist.

Deal with it. Hydras are stupid and I refuse to play in any game that accomodates them. You're big enough to go to the toilet alone, you're big enough to play by yourself.

I still don't understand the opposition to hydras on general principle.  I mean, you wouldn't say that Kiro has an unfair advantage playing alone (well, okay, maybe you would, but...), so you wouldn't say that Kips has an unfair advantage if Kiro's telling him what to do.

Uh-huh. So let's dissect this logic. Let's say Kiro is X. Kips is Z. Player value wise, let's assign everyone an arbitrary number between 0 and 100. Let's say Kiro's ranking is 80. Kips' is 40.

You argue that because X = 80, X + Z = 80 as well. Haha.



It isn't.

Any method by which to boost any given player's rate of success by sole virtue of having someone to talk to about their ideas or point out things they themselves hadn't yet seen is a method that unfavourably favours a particular player.

For my game, UK and Shadoweh requested to hydra. Neither of the two are bad at this game. Are you honestly going to assert that Shadoweh and UK cooperating will add no extra value to that player slot?

People just want to hydra out of lazy convenience, or because they "want to be part of the game" but for some reason don't want to sign up. If you want to play, then play for real. None of this hiding behind another's back. I make only exceptions for mentor hydras who stick to mentoring rather than coaching and playing the game for their pupil.

J.O.B

  • YOU CAN'T MAKE ME CHANGE
Re: RPG Mafia thread (Magical Madness Ongoing)
« Reply #452 on: August 05, 2011, 10:16:53 AM »
So were you fine with the mentor hydra with Kilga and I?

Conqueror

  • Here I am, dirty and faceless
  • waiting to heed your instruction
Re: RPG Mafia thread (Magical Madness Ongoing)
« Reply #453 on: August 05, 2011, 10:32:59 AM »
It's not that. It's more of "I'm busy for a third of the day."

Well, I'd imagine we all have other stuff to do. :V Mafia isn't supposed to take up your entire day after all. If it is, you should probably detach yourself from your computer and go take a break.


On tue un homme, on est un assassin. On tue des millions d'hommes, on est un conqu?rant. On les tue tous, on est un dieu.
Every saint has a past and every sinner a future.

Bardiche

  • Mafia: Worst Game Ever
Re: RPG Mafia thread (Magical Madness Ongoing)
« Reply #454 on: August 05, 2011, 10:53:53 AM »
So were you fine with the mentor hydra with Kilga and I?

Totes. :V Only Hydra we didn't end up warning.

J.O.B

  • YOU CAN'T MAKE ME CHANGE
Re: RPG Mafia thread (Magical Madness Ongoing)
« Reply #455 on: August 05, 2011, 11:53:52 AM »
detach yourself from your computer
I don't have anything else to do though.
Also, Kilga and eye are TEH STRONGEST HYDRA!

Dormio Ergo Sum

  • MotK's Official Idlebot
  • *
  • I don't bite... much.

Serp

  • It's all about overwhelming force and irresistible style
  • And in a pinch, style can slide
Re: RPG Mafia thread (Magical Madness Ongoing)
« Reply #457 on: August 05, 2011, 12:13:35 PM »
Uh-huh. So let's dissect this logic. Let's say Kiro is X. Kips is Z. Player value wise, let's assign everyone an arbitrary number between 0 and 100. Let's say Kiro's ranking is 80. Kips' is 40.

You argue that because X = 80, X + Z = 80 as well. Haha.



It isn't.

Any method by which to boost any given player's rate of success by sole virtue of having someone to talk to about their ideas or point out things they themselves hadn't yet seen is a method that unfavourably favours a particular player.

For my game, UK and Shadoweh requested to hydra. Neither of the two are bad at this game. Are you honestly going to assert that Shadoweh and UK cooperating will add no extra value to that player slot?

Okay, let's take your logic to its conclusion as well.  Suppose that player A has a value of 80.  Suppose that players B through J have a value of 10 each.  You seem to be insinuating that a nine-headed hydra of players B through J would be a better credit to their team than player A alone would.

Alternately, we could stop using dumb mathematical fallacies.  In a game like this, skill levels of players don't just add linearly like that.  When the two heads of a hydra disagree over a player's likely alignment or role, one of them will be right, and one of them will be wrong.  If the correct player were playing alone, then he'd definitely get his way.  If he's playing in a hydra, he might be swayed away from that opinion.  In any one situation, a hydra will never play any better than the best of its heads.

Now, if the players of the hydra know each other well, and make an agreement beforehand along the lines of "Okay, you've been really good at telling newbtown from newbscum in the past, and I know a lot of the old player meta, so you watch the new players and I'll watch the old ones," then over the course of the game, they'll probably make less mistakes than either of them alone would.  That doesn't really bother me, especially considering that there are probably other players in the game better at that particular facet of it than either of the hydra members.  There's a big difference between covering up a weakness and enhancing your play to levels that other players can't reach without using the same means.  You might as well ban NEETs from playing 'cause they get more time to reread the thread, or ban folks who have played in more than 20 games here 'cause they've learned too much meta.  There are lots of out-of-game circumstances that can add value to a player slot, and doing a hydra is just one of them.
[15:13] <Sana> >:<

Helepolis

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Re: RPG Mafia thread (Magical Madness Ongoing)
« Reply #458 on: August 05, 2011, 12:28:31 PM »
Serpenterius smacks so many nails on the head it isn't funny any more.

Aside this whole mafia thing. There is a reason why a 'second opinion' is often something extremely valuable. Or could create valuable information. Not going to wall O text the advantages and disadvantages of 'working together, as any common sense person can come up with them.

Also funny how you people cannot reach a conclusion. Opinions are fine, suggestions are fine. But at the end: decisions have to be made. And the hoster is the person who makes that decision and deals with its consequences. Good or bad.


ActionDan

  • Teaching old dogs new tricks
Re: RPG Mafia thread (Magical Madness Ongoing)
« Reply #459 on: August 05, 2011, 02:00:43 PM »
Just gonna add in here that when I Hydra'd with Conqueror, I felt godlike.  That. is. all.

Don't lynch me.

Affinity

  • hoho
  • ... but I have promises to keep.
Re: RPG Mafia thread (Magical Madness Ongoing)
« Reply #460 on: August 05, 2011, 02:27:26 PM »
About hydrae, the most irritating thing I find about them from a townie perspective (when making cases) is that there tends to be a 'dominant head' that changes every post (e.g using the Kiro/Kips thing, their first post might sound like Kips, the second like Kiro, etc.), so often it feels as if you are interacting with two different people under one persona which only needs to post once every 24 hours.  Compounding this is the fact that different heads think up of different points, so if one person were to take issue with one of these points, the head not responsible of it would merely say something like 'wait for the other guy to respond', and it might take a long time for that other head to respond since sharing the work of playing was the point of making up the hydra in the first place.  Since most people here consider the inconsistency of other players' views as scumtells, and since inconsistency is innate in every hydrae except for mentor-student ones, I think hydras go against he spirit of the game in this respect, just as lurkers do with their lack of information and posts.

I don't have qualms about the supposed increases in skill level though, since there isn't a skill cap in the game, and I do agree with what Serp said, but yeah, I don't really support hydras either.

Pesco

  • Trickster Rabbit Tewi
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Re: RPG Mafia thread (Magical Madness Ongoing)
« Reply #461 on: August 05, 2011, 05:49:51 PM »
You know, I just want people to not hydra so that we can GET 16 for the game.

People hydraing for convenience or whatever is secondary for today's matter.

Re: RPG Mafia thread (Magical Madness Ongoing)
« Reply #462 on: August 05, 2011, 05:54:31 PM »
Given the circumstances of the hydras that signed up, I don't think breaking them up would actually work for filling more player slots.

Plus, I'd rather just have two more unrelated players for the sake of variety!

People just want to hydra out of lazy convenience, or because they "want to be part of the game" but for some reason don't want to sign up.
I don't think this is true. I think some people will just hydra because they like their other head and think that the hydra would help both of them enjoy the game more, which wouldn't really be for convenience so much as just having fun. I mean, that's the only reason I would consider hydra-ing, so.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2011, 06:00:52 PM by huh what »

UncertainJakutten

  • Then you should get out of the way when I tell you
  • Do you not trust my aim?
Re: RPG Mafia thread (Magical Madness Ongoing)
« Reply #463 on: August 05, 2011, 06:15:39 PM »
I earned my own rep and THEN hydra'd. I didn't hydra when it's was hipster because I'm the one that made it hipster. :V

Psh, both of us did!

Also Serp is my hero :3.

Bard has many misconceptions that he's going to push to the end because it's the only possible way he can be "right"


Shadoweh

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Re: RPG Mafia thread (Magical Madness Ongoing)
« Reply #464 on: August 05, 2011, 06:22:31 PM »
This argument is silly. It would be like refusing to play with Pesco because he'll already catch the scum team Day 1. :P
For my game, UK and Shadoweh requested to hydra. Neither of the two are bad at this game. Are you honestly going to assert that Shadoweh and UK cooperating will add no extra value to that player slot?
It totally would have. UK wouldn't have been there to lynch me Day 1!
Quote
People just want to hydra out of lazy convenience, or because they "want to be part of the game" but for some reason don't want to sign up.
Or because this is a game we play for fun. I'm pretty sure the 'lazy convenience' motive that unites the hydras is 'this would be a fun thing to do'.  It isn't nice to accuse people of hydraing to be lazy, because I don't think it's true at all. I think sometimes in the spirit of making things fair, balanced and following a ruleset of how a person thinks something should work, people forget about the most important part of mafia, it's a game we play to have fun together. <^_^>


Kitten4u: "I'll say it plainly: THERE IS NO WAY SHADOWEH IS SCUM!" - A Balanced Game of Mafia

Pesco

  • Trickster Rabbit Tewi
  • *
  • Make a yukkuri and take it easy with me
Re: RPG Mafia thread (Magical Madness Ongoing)
« Reply #465 on: August 05, 2011, 06:25:28 PM »
Quote
mafia
Quote
a game we play to have fun

Shadoweh. You're in the wrong place. Here we play mafia to RAEG!

UncertainJakutten

  • Then you should get out of the way when I tell you
  • Do you not trust my aim?
Re: RPG Mafia thread (Magical Madness Ongoing)
« Reply #466 on: August 05, 2011, 06:29:07 PM »
;_;...I play to have fun...


Re: RPG Mafia thread (Magical Madness Ongoing)
« Reply #467 on: August 05, 2011, 07:02:18 PM »
I play Mafia because I have nothing better to do with my spare time. :shrug: I guess that whole "fun" thing might possibly have a little to do with it, too.

Re: RPG Mafia thread (Magical Madness Ongoing)
« Reply #468 on: August 05, 2011, 07:03:56 PM »
I play mafia because...
Because I...
I... umm ...
I play because ...

...

...hmm.

UncertainJakutten

  • Then you should get out of the way when I tell you
  • Do you not trust my aim?
Re: RPG Mafia thread (Magical Madness Ongoing)
« Reply #469 on: August 05, 2011, 07:24:56 PM »
Wait, Zakeri plays mafia? I thought he just joined and then lurked.

(Kidding, ilu Zak)


Dormio Ergo Sum

  • MotK's Official Idlebot
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  • I don't bite... much.
Re: RPG Mafia thread (Magical Madness Ongoing)
« Reply #470 on: August 05, 2011, 09:25:46 PM »
he's going to push to the end because it's the only possible way he can be "right"
Misreps, obvscum.
##Vote Bardiche

Shadoweh

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Re: RPG Mafia thread (Magical Madness Ongoing)
« Reply #471 on: August 05, 2011, 10:59:24 PM »
I think Dormio is the cop.

##Vote: Dormio


Kitten4u: "I'll say it plainly: THERE IS NO WAY SHADOWEH IS SCUM!" - A Balanced Game of Mafia

Bardiche

  • Mafia: Worst Game Ever
Re: RPG Mafia thread (Magical Madness Ongoing)
« Reply #472 on: August 05, 2011, 11:03:30 PM »
Bard has many misconceptions that he's going to push to the end because it's the only possible way he can be "right"

You still pretend I care about being right? :V

Serps reasons are like mine - an expectation of what will occur. I can't directly say anything he claims is false, because it's possible that pointing out things someone missed will only set them on the course of destruction because it's a bad thing. I happen to think it's more likely that discussing your arguments with someone else before making a post helps you as the hydras tend to give their own opinions, what points not to attack etc.

Anyway, no one thinks there's any merit in my side, so I'll drop the point. I actually signed up for this game a while ago anyway, but I like trying to remain anonymous in anony-games. Clear strategy backfire etc.

ActionDan

  • Teaching old dogs new tricks
Re: RPG Mafia thread (Magical Madness Ongoing)
« Reply #473 on: August 05, 2011, 11:39:04 PM »
Bard I support!  Here here.

Don't lynch me.

Re: RPG Mafia thread (Magical Madness Ongoing)
« Reply #474 on: August 05, 2011, 11:45:42 PM »
So somebody dropped out, meaning I'm stuck at 13 again.

Are you guys just in on some conspiracy to prevent me from ever getting an adequate amount of players or something?

There are a couple places where I could probably pull players from if I'm ~absolutely desperate~ to fill up some slots, but I'd rather not have to do that because it's not like we don't have a large playerbase here already even if half of it seems to hate me.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2011, 11:53:31 PM by huh what »

Serp

  • It's all about overwhelming force and irresistible style
  • And in a pinch, style can slide
Re: RPG Mafia thread (Magical Madness Ongoing)
« Reply #475 on: August 06, 2011, 12:29:51 AM »
Affinity:  I agree with you on that point, and that's why I'm always certain to specify that only one head of the hydra can post, in my games.
[15:13] <Sana> >:<

Shadoweh

  • I will ahn~ vote count for you
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  • The STRONGEST Day Effect
Re: RPG Mafia thread (Magical Madness Ongoing)
« Reply #476 on: August 06, 2011, 12:36:25 AM »
No one hates you huh what. :<
You should pull people. ^_^ Larger is better!
A larger playerbase that is. Moar bodiez.


Kitten4u: "I'll say it plainly: THERE IS NO WAY SHADOWEH IS SCUM!" - A Balanced Game of Mafia

Helepolis

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Re: RPG Mafia thread (Magical Madness Ongoing)
« Reply #477 on: August 06, 2011, 06:48:35 AM »
So somebody dropped out, meaning I'm stuck at 13 again.

Are you guys just in on some conspiracy to prevent me from ever getting an adequate amount of players or something?

There are a couple places where I could probably pull players from if I'm ~absolutely desperate~ to fill up some slots, but I'd rather not have to do that because it's not like we don't have a large playerbase here already even if half of it seems to hate me.
Advertise with more hot chicks / body builders to lure in male / female players.

Conqueror

  • Here I am, dirty and faceless
  • waiting to heed your instruction
Re: RPG Mafia thread (Magical Madness Ongoing)
« Reply #478 on: August 06, 2011, 07:11:13 AM »
13 players is a good number. And we'll probably need some players for replacements anyway.
But if you can pull people, go ahead.  :3


On tue un homme, on est un assassin. On tue des millions d'hommes, on est un conqu?rant. On les tue tous, on est un dieu.
Every saint has a past and every sinner a future.

Re: RPG Mafia thread (Magical Madness Ongoing)
« Reply #479 on: August 06, 2011, 08:49:46 AM »
14 meshes with the set-up better than 13 does, though. If I receive no more sign-ups whatsoever by the 7th, then I'll see if I can pull somebody over, I suppose.

The phrasing here makes me sound like a (macho) Cop.