Labyrinth of Touhou 7F

[RegalStar]

Well, if you're purely using Eiki for the sake of Wandering Sin you might as well try to build her for durability and speed, since you're not going to do much damage with it either way...

[Serela]

If it does a completely insignificant amount of damage, then Renko/Maribel/Reisen does that job better and Shiki is out.

[NEETori]

Also, does anyone know how to solve the "recruit character = reset character level and skill levels" problem without starting over?

Intensive Cheat Engine hacking.  Which I have no idea how to use :V

Plus Shikieiki using Last Judgment does worse damage then a lot of my other choices anyway, and is less durable.

In terms of nukes, Last Judgment should more-or-less be your second/third strongest reliable nuke, because Shiki's got massive ATK and it ignores defense, and has a huge multiplier.  Suika, Yuugi, ATK Komachi, Suwako, Yuyuko, Mokou and possibly Patchy should only outdamage her with nukes if elements work in their favor AND the boss's defense isn't that high.  Oh and possibly Flan with 3 Gurthangs :V

Of course, Nitori does such good damage by yourself, she might be the only fragile nuke you need.  I'm not kidding - Megawatt Linear Gun does more damage than KOi3S does to a fire-weak target, despite Yuugi having higher attack, assuming equal buff levels.

Not counting Master Sparks/Flan's Composites due to the fact that they are unreliable.

Well, if you're purely using Eiki for the sake of Wandering Sin you might as well try to build her for durability and speed, since you're not going to do much damage with it either way...

To be fair, she can spam Bar of the Ten Kings for reasonable damage.  Of course, Mystia's Midnight Chorus Master has the same multiplier, Mystia's faster, comparatively durable, and MCM can paralyze and costs a third as much. 

[Serela]

In terms of nukes, Last Judgment should more-or-less be your second/third strongest reliable nuke

aya getting in 3 hits and then switching herself out before Winner can move begs to differ  :]

And Yuyuko is only a little bit weaker and is REALLY durable, and has low delay(for a nuke of power on a durable person).

Flan's speed and low delay means she can switch herself out after hitting sometimes, saving someone else a turn, and she can very definitely outdamage Shiki.

And Marisa with 3 Judas Pains, especially if I bother to lay a speed buff on her, can Master Spark at full or near full power pretty often, actually. But I did end up removing her from my party anyway.

I'm not going to say Shikieiki using Last Judgement isn't one of the games high-end nukes, though, as it definitely is, and using her for Last Judgment nuking is a fine thought. I'm just thinking that in my situation there are better choices.

[RegalStar]

Intensive Cheat Engine hacking.  Which I have no idea how to use :V

Screw that then, I'm starting over. I'm only on floor 2 anyways.

[NEETori]

aya getting in 3 hits and then switching herself out before Winner can move begs to differ  :]

And Yuyuko is only a little bit weaker and is REALLY durable, and has low delay(for a nuke of power on a durable person).

Flan's speed and low delay means she can switch herself out after hitting sometimes, saving someone else a turn, and she can very definitely outdamage Shiki.

And Marisa with 3 Judas Pains, especially if I bother to lay a speed buff on her, can Master Spark at full or near full power pretty often, actually. But I did end up removing her from my party anyway.

I'm not going to say Shikieiki using Last Judgement isn't one of the games high-end nukes, though, as it definitely is, and using her for Last Judgment nuking is a fine thought. I'm just thinking that in my situation there are better choices.

Flan beats everyone via pure attack stat
Except Nitori.  Nobody except Defense/Mind ignoring attacks on Hibachi twins beats Nitori :V

Aya's isn't so much a nuke so much as it is lots of medium power attacks in a short amount of time (like a precision carpet bomb), and if Aya can outdamage Shiki, I'd imagine Chen might be able to do it too.  Yuyuko definitely has a durability edge, but Shiki's got workable mind.  Not great, but workable. 

[yoshicookiezeus]

Huh. Seems like Mystia is not quite as fragile as I keep thinking she is; I missed switching her out against the last phase of Serpent of Chaos, and while I was expecting her to get OHKOd by Ether Flare, she somehow managed to survive both it and Exhalatio. Of course, she then died to the following Demon-Slashing Dance, but still :V

Also why won't the Machine God Lucifer drop already D:

[Serela]

if Aya can outdamage Shiki, I'd imagine Chen might be able to do it too

I hoped so, but Chen seems to be doing a fraction of Aya's damage, although due to how speed scales, she IS a bit better at getting turns in.

It may have a bit to do with the fact that Chen got 10% less exp then Aya out of like 700m exp, and since Chen levels so incredibly fast, she probably lost like 60 levels.

Yuyuko's MND is surprisingly high, by the way. Reimu has about 242k, Iku has 250k, yet Yuyuko still chalks in at about 200k. For comparison to people not using MND based builds, Meiling has less then 100k, and Alice has 160k.

[yoshicookiezeus]

I seem to have reached the point where the only threatening attacks Serpent of Chaos has are its single-target physical nukes; this last battle it didn't use any of them, and as a result I got through without losing a single character. :V Still no drop, though.

Also having two people rotate a team of Nitori/Flandre/some other nuker in and out results in some pretty crazy DPS during the last phase. It's interesting how Flandre is 40 levels behind the rest of my team due to me not having used her in a while (just realized that I never use Patchy nowadays due to her abysmal speed, so I thought I might as well exchange her for someone more useful), and she still manages to have an ATK stat that's quite a bit higher than any other stat on my other characters.

[NEETori]

I seem to have reached the point where the only threatening attacks Serpent of Chaos has are its single-target physical nukes; this last battle it didn't use any of them, and as a result I got through without losing a single character. :V Still no drop, though.

Also having two people rotate a team of Nitori/Flandre/some other nuker in and out results in some pretty crazy DPS during the last phase. It's interesting how Flandre is 40 levels behind the rest of my team due to me not having used her in a while (just realized that I never use Patchy nowadays due to her abysmal speed, so I thought I might as well exchange her for someone more useful), and she still manages to have an ATK stat that's quite a bit higher than any other stat on my other characters.

Her ATK growth is about as egregious as Komachi's HP growth.  With two Extinction Cannons and a Longsword "Ringil", my Flan clocks in at 185k attack, compared double Gurthang + Armads Nitori witht 125k

[Ghaleon]

Screw that then, I'm starting over. I'm only on floor 2 anyways.

I thought that nonsense was fixed with 3.02 or whatever the newest version is.

[RegalStar]

I thought that nonsense was fixed with 3.02 or whatever the newest version is.

Apparently, not if I simply copy the folder as save1 and replace the old one.

Well, this time I completely ditched my old save folder and copied a new one from the special disk, and then put in the NG+ save file as save1. Hopefully there's no more bugs.

[yoshicookiezeus]

:D

[attach=1]

Took ~10 attempts, but +300% to all stats and other assorted boosts are well worth it. It feels somewhat fitting that this was another no-death battle, as well.

Next target - Hibachi twins v2 and their Physical Reactor. Approximately when can I start thinking about taking them on? Currently at Reimu level 484.

[Serela]

I always cringe when I see people's thLaby using the ugly thin text instead of the pretty and voluptous text >: But to get it you pretty much have to boot it with applocale or set your computer to use Japanese as a second language, so... oh well.

Next target - Hibachi twins v2 and their Physical Reactor. Approximately when can I start thinking about taking them on? Currently at Reimu level 484.

Right now. At your level they should be pretty nondangerous until one hits Berserk mode, really.

Anyway, I did some thinking in my head at school, and Wandering Sin should be stronger then Reisen's Discarder if nothing else, and while Shiki is slower then Reisen by a significant bit, she's more durable, the debuff is stronger, and it can hit PAR. So I'm keeping Shikieiki. Also going to remove Chen for Maribel, who can lay strong debuffs while still having pretty good damage!

I'm kinda tempted to switch someone for Mystia and spend the whole battle debuffing him and trying to hit PAR while dealing decent damage. Because hitting a strong PAR pretty much ends the fight. Suwako would work too, but Mystia would be cooler and faster and more durable, so.

[RegalStar]

Apparently, not if I simply copy the folder as save1 and replace the old one.

Well, this time I completely ditched my old save folder and copied a new one from the special disk, and then put in the NG+ save file as save1. Hopefully there's no more bugs.

Update: Apparently, that glitch only affects select characters, because Meiling wasn't suffering that problem but Cirno is. Maybe it has to do with the fact that I'm using the downloaded NG+ file instead of properly unlocking it.

Does anyone have a save file just before they beat Winner that they can give to me?

[yoshicookiezeus]

Well then that was almost kind of anticlimactic. :V Dual Hibachis v2 flawless victory and drop gotten on my first attempt, and they didn't even use Dual Funeral Washing Machine once. Took forever, though, since I pretty much only used Kaguya for damage until the first one went down.

Also dear lord Meiling with a Machine God Lucifer is the best tank ever.

I always cringe when I see people's thLaby using the ugly thin text instead of the pretty and voluptous text >:

...I didn't even know there was another font. I can't seem to get it to appear even when running the game through Applocale, though...

[Serela]

You might not even have the font :V I don't seem to remember it coming with the game. For some reason. At least not on the OLD download, I dunno about Special Disk. Don't really worry about it, I guess, it's a bother.

Although I'm really glad mine works for whatever reason.

[Serela]

K look here's the font, you need to put it in the Fonts folder in Control Panel.

And then, if it doesn't work, try applocale and it theoretically should. Theoretically. It only takes 5 seconds to throw it in the fonts folder anyway, I suppose.

[yoshicookiezeus]

Me not having the font seems to have been the problem, yes - after installing it, it shows up just fine. Thank you!

[NEETori]

I want to try MAG Renko for shits and giggles.  Currently, my defensive Renko tanks fairly well, but MAG Renko can deal lolbad damage and makes Charge unusable.

[yoshicookiezeus]

Out of curiosity, which characters show up on you guys' save files? I have Nitori, due to using her to clear trash throughout pretty much the entire game, and my first (unfinished) playthrough had Cirno up until some time through the massive 30F grind wall.

I want to try MAG Renko for shits and giggles.  Currently, my defensive Renko tanks fairly well, but MAG Renko can deal lolbad damage and makes Charge unusable.

Solo Renko run gogogo  :getdown:

[Parallaxal]

My save file portrait character is almost always Mystia. I also had Orin for Team Unappreciated, because I used her extensively when grinding on 27F. Needle Mountain's piercing damage formula happens to be pretty effective against Nightmare Cancers.

Anyway, I did some thinking in my head at school, and Wandering Sin should be stronger then Reisen's Discarder if nothing else, and while Shiki is slower then Reisen by a significant bit, she's more durable, the debuff is stronger, and it can hit PAR. So I'm keeping Shikieiki. Also going to remove Chen for Maribel, who can lay strong debuffs while still having pretty good damage!

You'd think that, but practically speaking Reisen should never be using Discarder without at least +60% in all stats, thanks to how easily spammable Grand Patriot's Elixir is. The speed boost from GPE more or less overwrites what little delay you spend to use it, so its only real drawback is the SP cost, which shouldn't matter at all in the postgame. She also gets half-decent durability when her DEF/MND boosts are always over 60%. Factoring in her buffs, my Reisen's defenses are comparable to DEF/MND build Keine pretty much 100% of the time.

I gave my Machine God Lucifer (dropped on 27th kill!) to Reisen for the WINNER fight, and she was easily my second best damage dealer, beaten only by Nitori.

[NEETori]

It was Remilia up until floor 7, until Meiling took her place.  I used Meiling for random encounters up until Komachi came along, and even then Komachi saw less use than Meiling.

I will also vouch for Reisen being much more effective for debuff spam via Discarder.  My Reisen is woefully underused, and once buffs are in place, she's way better against physical attacks than Shiki, and slightly worse than an unbuffed Shiki against magic.  Note that I also have no good gear on Reisen - Shiki has some floor 30 stuff.

Shiki's also unlikely to be a recipient for defensive buffs with my playstyle (I use her as a second Nitori). 

I'd also like to nominate Alice as being one of the most reliable characters throughout the game, being only dangerous to use against Eientei, and useful practically in every single battle in the game besides that.

[Serela]

About the portrait on save file thing, it was Rumia for maingame, Nitori for Plus-Disk, and turned into Kaguya around 27/30F grinding.

Parallaxal:Self-buffs are less useful when I've got Iku and Yukari out almost all the time to keep everyone's stats in tip-top shape :V Plus Reimu popping in whenever needed.

Also, about Reisen's defenses, yeah, they get around what Keine's are; that is, what unbuffed Keine's are :x That Reisen can keep her stats at 80~100% buffed DOES help a lot, though. Plus since Winner almost exclusively has elemental magic for MND-hitting attacks, giving Reisen two Physical Reactors would help a crapload.

Being able to pray for PAR off Shiki helped in her favor. But I might end up using -both-, really. Between Maribel, Reisen, and Shikieiki, plus Renko at like the start of the battle to get the debuffs rolling... yeah. His lowered offensive stats and speed would really help out the stayoutibility of those three, plus if I manage to score a hit of PAR from Shikieiki, BOOM there goes 1/4th of his HP at LEAST.

If I get ultra lucky and a rarely-used Galaxy Stop hits PAR then I instantly win  :]

[NEETori]

if I manage to score a hit of PAR from Renko, I win.

Fix'd.  Hard bosses are so much easier when they have no turn for 10 of mine

[Serela]

Nyeh, I almost want to start grinding for Physical Reactors NOW since it's pretty much an instant gate to tankability for anyone against Winner. As long as they're near the back so they don't get hit by a physical in the front.

Edit:Ran is going to be my replacement Alice, I've decided while trying to rearrange my team, so Maribel will take Alice's spot. Ran certainly does WAY more damage then Alice will, and has better defensive stats in all 3 spots.

Reisen will replace Kaggy once I don't need Kaggy for randoms anymore.

Or I could get Reisen NOW and Maribel later... hmm.

[yoshicookiezeus]

...if Meiling with a Machine God Lucifer is an amazing tank, Meiling with a Machine God Lucifer and a Physical Reactor is an even better one. :V 130k DEF and 700-800 in all affinities now means that anything that isn't non-elemental magic or ignores defence barely even scratches her.

I just wish that the 30F randoms wouldn't be so stingy with their good drops. D:

[NEETori]

I wish 30F wasn't so stingy with the drops, period.   The more useless things can be sold  for SKP :V

Edit: Wiped against Yukari v.3 because Dual Colorful Light HITS FOR 100K+ at her last phase if I can't end her quickly enough.

[Ghaleon]

I wish 30F wasn't so stingy with the drops, period.   The more useless things can be sold  for SKP :V

Edit: Wiped against Yukari v.3 because Dual Colorful Light HITS FOR 100K+ at her last phase if I can't end her quickly enough.

Yeah, yukari v3 is pretty tough, and dual colorful light is always a brutal nuke, pretty much anybody who has and uses it kills people with it.

About all this physical reactor talk, personally I'm dubious that a reactor would help most characters defend against most attacks more than the MGL. Unless they are komachi, suwako, yuugi (vs magic) or flan or something. I mean the elemental resistance thing diminishes quite a bit by that point in the game, and the math for it is applied BEFORE mnd/def reduction to boot, unless it has some kind of hidden stat or something.

[yoshicookiezeus]

Well, the Physical Reactor boosts all of my Meiling's affinities from 300-350 to 550-600 (misremembered earlier :V), which is after all a reduction almost by half of every single elemental attack. And since it just so happens that almost all strong magic attacks have an element, and Meiling's MND not exactly being her strongest stat... yeah, I'd say it does a difference. It's kind of hard to compare since I can't refight the Serpent of Chaos for quite some while, though.