Labyrinth of Touhou 7F

[Jq1790]

Like Suwako and Reimu right?
Komachi's not that useful due to her widespread debuffing.
I should probably bring Reimu's MND closer to Patchy's level so I can be safer, that way I shouldn't have too much to fear.
I can just stock up on SKP, the enemies seem to drop those polymer liquid items quite often, and they sell quite nicely.

If you've been using her, Cirno could also help with the PAR through...whatever her second spell was, as much like Reimu's ESC, hers is a multitarget spell, though her PAR effect is weaker than the Iron Ring from Suwako if it hits.  Once you KO one of the trio, you can also use her SPD debuffing spells as well to give you more time to kill the others as well(Since if there's only two alive and Kaggy's one of em, you'd be safe from the Stone Bowl if there're only 2 targets, long as it's only one debuff class, such as SPD Down.)

fakeedit:  *pulls a kunai out of his back*  Freaking ninjas...

[Hanzo K.]

I see.
Cirno was pretty much benched once I had more characters than I knew what to do with.
She's still been racking up levelups, and the occasional SKP pile chucked her way.

[Jq1790]

I see.
Cirno was pretty much benched once I had more characters than I knew what to do with.
She's still been racking up levelups, and the occasional SKP pile chucked her way.

Yeah, with her low damage output and only one element, she's a bit of trouble to use, but that PAR effect alone is almost enough reason to keep her around if only for floor exploration.  Her SPD debuffs are, I believe I read on Touhouwiki, the strongest you'll ever get except I think

Spoiler:

Renko(who doesn't appear til postgame, IIRC)'s Galaxy Stop(An insane -100% SPD in addition to the strongest PAR in the game, if memory of what I've read serves...)

[Hanzo K.]

So essentially, reserve Cirno for when the fight's down to two foes, right?
Makes sense.

[Jq1790]

So essentially, reserve Cirno for when the fight's down to two foes, right?
Makes sense.

Those SPD downs will help prevent you from eating a Hourai Barrage or Astronomical Entombing while you take out the other one.  Remember to ignore Reisen- much like in fanon, here she's just a useless bunny compared to the other two.  Eirin's probably the one to take out first, simply due to her higher HP and healing, as you figured.  Her FIR weakness should simplify that though, as you also know.

I'd recommend trying to have a buffed nuker or two, like Marisa or Nitori(Her nuke's nonelemental in 3.01, but with an even more insane multiplier, so while she won't hit Eirin for weakness, she can still do some good damage overall.), waiting in the wings for when you have to take out Kaguya.  As you can plainly see, if she casts the Barrage, that's the game right there.

[Hanzo K.]

Didn't just see it, I took one headon.
But I would assume then that using Iku and having PAR resist on my nukers would work good right?
Or just use Sanae's Miracle Fruit.

[J.O.B]

Highest stat list v2:
Up to 24F
Level:227 for Chen
HP:66635 for Komachi (Meiling is getting there with 58231 HP)
SP:1787 for Patchy
ATK:59918 for Flan
DEF:22785 for Meiling
MAG:33638 for Marisa
MND:30756 for Patchy
SPD:1682 for Chen (Slowest is Yuyu again with 304)

Plus disk is boring. Anyone have a save file at 30F?

[Parallaxal]

You don't need to save Cirno for just when there are 2 enemies left. Icicle Fall is her strongest SPD debuff, and it's only single target. I like using Icicle Fall on both Eirin and Kaguya, since they are the most dangerous enemies. There's no need to slow down Reisen if you can just keep her paralyzed with someone else.

Icicle Fall is a fine weapon to keep exactly 2 debuffs on the Eientei group, so you won't trigger Buddha's Stone Bowl.

[Hanzo K.]

Yeah, but Kaguya likes spamming Fire Rat's Robe, and that one laser-y move. I'd rather not leave much to chance.
But I guess I'll give it a shot, see how things go. Cirno probably needs some more SKP in order to keep up with everyone else though.


EDIT: Gave it a second whack, this time with Reimu and Cirno replacing Remi and Komachi respectively.
Took out Eirin and Reisen at the same time, then Kaggy thought it'd be a laugh to use Hourai Barrage right after.
I wasn't laughing. And after a couple more levels and such, neither will she.

[Sophilia]

EDIT: Gave it a second whack, this time with Reimu and Cirno replacing Remi and Komachi respectively.
Took out Eirin and Reisen at the same time, then Kaggy thought it'd be a laugh to use Hourai Barrage right after.
I wasn't laughing. And after a couple more levels and such, neither will she.

You're having trouble avoiding Kaguya's limit so...you take out the person who can tank it straight-up?  I'm not really seeing the logic here.  Yeah, Avici isn't good for this fight.  But she can still deal good damage with Scythe, especially if she's Iku'd, and most importantly, she has the gobs and gobs of HP that it takes to swallow Astronomical Entombing or Hourai Barrage.  If you're pulling her, you had better be set up to kill Eirin or Kaguya and then not give the other one a single turn!

[Hanzo K.]

And with Reimu and Cirno handing out PAR and SPD debuffs like crazy, Meiling had time to sit around a pitch out heals when they got turns.
Eventually I had them so locked down that they had no chance to use focus....Outside of Reisen, but by the time she gets there she's inconsequential.
She consistently does nothing to patchy, and the endgame was heralded by patchy's thunderclouded royal flare taking out both Eirin AND Kaguya at the same time.
At that point, I could win at my own pace, since even with all the debuffs Reisen was slinging, they were completely ineffective at damaging patchy.
Only things tat caught me up were her status-effect moves, Gas-Woven Orb, and Silent Cloud.
The latter of the two being the most annoying. After the PAR from another thundercloud wore off, I used Silent Selene for game!
Only Limit Seen This Round: Mind Starmine, doing a laughable job of absolutely nothing. (It even failed at failing!)

What a useless little rabbit, but maybe she just wasn't applying her talents right~?
At any rate, Eirin and Reisen are now mine. Next stop? Flan.
...This is something I've been looking forward to all game! :firedup:


Also, funny story happened during that same brawl.
I had Ran in towards the end, but not until the fateful flare, and I inadvertently used Fox-Tanuki Youkai Laser.
Dealt a flat 10k to all of them. Cue me spamming that until Ran ran out of MP....Which wasn't too much further, given that I used her ATK/MAG buff earlier.


EDIT: C'mere you drunken little Oni, I'm gonna need yer help busting up an immortal....And a ghost....hell, Rampage time!

[RegalStar]

IIRC anyone with 2640 MND or higher takes no damage from most of their spells.

Have you tried tanking with just Iku?

[Hanzo K.]

The Eientei team?
Yeah, they're 86'd already.

My next task is beating Yuyuko, I had no clue that her Saigyouji Flawless Nirvana was a Physical Spell.
I'll need to train on 13-14 for a while in order to face her head on, and maybe some more Forbidden Tablets.



Also, lulzy story.
You guys know how Holy Win is one of the best MND items you can get in the 10-15 area?
Well, imagine asthmatic little Patchy swinging around that beast of a holy sword. I mean really, +60% MND, and +10% REC? How can I say no?
And on the Eientei Trio fight, I got the third Getitup V. found a Dairokutenmaoh Armor on Floor....14 as well, I think.
I guess right now my next goal is to grind my arse off until I can face down Yuyuko and Mokou, as well as Orin, since I don't want to go too much further until I've recruited everyone I can.
It's why I got Tenshi before fighting Eientei.

[J.O.B]

It's probably better if you grind on higher floors if you want to recruit.

[Hanzo K.]

Well, if I can barely scrape past those 14F golems, I don't think I'll be able to do much better later on, not without heavy training.

[J.O.B]

Does Flame Tyrant on 24F use any status inflicting moves?

[Hanzo K.]

According to the wiki, no.
It's just the X's Foe series beefed up to the Nth Degree, right down to the use of Flowing Hellfire.

It is however, cripplingly weak to PAR, having only 5 PAR resist.
If you wanna fight it without PAR, you better be at least 310+ with 500+ FIR Affinity, since the cheesed version's recommendation is 210+.
Guy's got 60k MAG apparently. It also takes 2.5x damage from Cold element, so Cirno's quite useful, as are Patchy(Undine), Suwako(Froggy), Nitori(Waterfall), and anyone else with Cold attacks.

Quote from the Wiki's entry.

Flame Tyrant
HP                        Level Recommendation          EXP                      Skill Points                        Drop
6,000,000                           210+                        626,800                  198,000                     Black Hole Ocarina
The only thing that you need to know about how to beat Flame Tyrant is that it has a PAR resist of 5. It also has 60000 MAG, and can probably kill some of your members ten times over with a single Flowing Hellfire, so you'll want to abuse that ridiculously low PAR resistance. Make sure your front four members have very, very high FIR affinity, survive its opening attack (usually Flowing Hellfire), inflict PAR on it somehow, and reapply it once in a while as you beat it to death without fearing any form of counterattack whatsoever. It's highly resistant to FIR as expected, what you may not expect is that it's also resistant to MYS and SPI, so go use other elements instead (preferably CLD, which does 2.5x damage to it). That pretty much sums it up.

If you want to fight the battle without PAR for some reason, know that since it's nearly immune to debuffs and no amount of defensive buff is going to be of any use against 60000 MAG (unless your party members are about 100 levels higher than needed), the only thing you can do about its attacks is FIR affinity, and lots and lots of it. The only thing Flame Tyrant does is fire attacks, and more fire attack, but they're also coming from the aforementioned 60000 MAG, so you'll need 400-500 FIR affinity on everyone who wants to stay in on one of its attacks. You will still be taking heck of a lot of damage though, so you'll probably need a couple of dedicated switchers to make sure Reimu can come in, heal, and leave as needed.

[J.O.B]

I read the wiki, I just wanted to double check as my Patchy's MND is half of his MAG so I thought with more FIR affinity and no status inflicting moves then she shouldn't take much damage.

[Hanzo K.]

Well, one would hope.

[Parallaxal]

Well, good luck with that. I've tried to fight the Flame Tyrant at "normal" levels without PAR, and it was pretty much the hardest Plus Disk fight until the 30F. Even Iku with 400-ish FIR affinity was taking 15k+ damage from Flowing Hellfire.

Assuming your Patchouli has around 30k MND and with the damage formula for Flowing Hellfire, you can expect her to take about 52k damage at neutral affinity, and 10k damage with 520 FIR affinity. You're going to need to keep her MND fully buffed if you want her to survive this fight.

Also, note that Flame Tyrant doesn't have a set attack pattern at all. He can use Flowing Hellfire multiple times in succession (I know he's done it to me).

[J.O.B]

Ok, Thanks.
I could try and level up her MND a bit more too. She doesn't even have 100 skill levels in it yet.

[Hanzo K.]

Well, Hell Forge isn't so bad.
I should probably train a fair bit more so I can keep trying for his drop.
Hey, the second dual halo might come in handy on...uh...someone.

It's Yuyuko and Triomagen that I'm not too thrilled with having to brawl with, especially considering that they too have drops I desire.
Things I already possess, but having more than one of them is never a bad thing, especially Triomagen's drop, which will be a useful replacement for the Galadriel's Phial I have on Remi right now.
Having a second Twilight Robe will also come in handy I'd wager. Can never have enough MND.

[Gesh86]

It's Yuyuko and Triomagen that I'm not too thrilled with having to brawl with, especially considering that they too have drops I desire.
Things I already possess, but having more than one of them is never a bad thing, especially Triomagen's drop, which will be a useful replacement for the Galadriel's Phial I have on Remi right now.
Having a second Twilight Robe will also come in handy I'd wager. Can never have enough MND.

You should definitely fight Triomagen until you get the drop. Star of Ellendil stays useful for a very, very long time.

[Hanzo K.]

Aye.
20% increase to all stats, plus a Resistances Boost, and doesn't it affect REC/TP too?
I don't have my game open right now, so i can't be sure what all it does beyond the stats and resist boosts.

[J.O.B]

I just went for Flame Tyrant using the PAR method.
He attacked once, three people died ( or two).
Then he was PAR the rest of the fight.
And I lost.

[Gesh86]

Aye.
20% increase to all stats, plus a Resistances Boost, and doesn't it affect REC/TP too?
I don't have my game open right now, so i can't be sure what all it does beyond the stats and resist boosts.

It's +4 TP, but that's just a side-effect. Items that solely increase stats are nice, though a few level-ups can do the same thing. But if you can't get your party immune to status-effects, you're just going to have trouble even with a high-level-party.

I just went for Flame Tyrant using the PAR method.
He attacked once, three people died ( or two).
Then he was PAR the rest of the fight.
And I lost.

That's how it usually goes...though I don't know what to make of that strike.

[Hanzo K.]

Well, China hardly ever gets zinged with effects(mostly due to elendil or phial),
And Remi's got the Ribbon, and a Phial, swapping the Phial for that second Elendil would be useful. 4% more statboost than the phial, and better resists.
I don't really care too much about status effects that aren't inflicted by my party, mostly because not many enemies have the prescience to do so, beyond the mildly irritating poison, and occasional PAR.
Which China and Sanae can easily repair. In fact, Evil Forge could be seen as that one 10-12F enemy turned up a few notches.
Because it's really not much stronger, just more durable.

[J.O.B]

That strike was just a joke.

[Pesco]

You can't repair DTH. SIL is almost as bad as PAR because who the hell uses the basic attack to deal damage?

[J.O.B]

Basic attack is fucking awesome for early boss rush and lower leveled enemies.
But useless everywhere else.
Also I need help with Baal Avatar, and yes, I did read the wiki.