Labyrinth of Touhou 7F

[c l e a r]

Yes she does, Sword buffs attack while Orb buffs Magic, sure, she can't do both in a single go, but it makes it all the more specific. After all, some times you may have two physical damage dealers in and not actually need the MAG buff, or vice-versa.

Also, I think, I found a glitch in the 30th floor, I was using a hacked party of Youmu, Shikieiki and Kaguya just so that I could check the BGMs for all the three ultimate bosses, and I ended up killing all three easily (Well, duh, with a level 6500 party of nukers.) and... Now even after leaving and re-entering the labyrinth their icons are not there anymore.

Did I overkill them so much that they just died for the rest of the game?  :V

Also, it would seem to me that the only benefit I see from Ran is that it boosts you seperate magic and attackers alike, but imo, too slow, and only really good if you combo with Stone Bowl to a nice 30% from the get-go.

The only use is for Hybrid attackers, which are few and between, but imo, suck, since even the sterner stuff like eiki would bank on Last Judgment in the late over Bar of the Ten Kings.

[Serela]

The only use is for Hybrid attackers, which are few and between, but imo, suck, since even the sterner stuff like eiki would bank on Last Judgment in the late over Bar of the Ten Kings.

Well, when you say Hybrid attackers, I'd assume something more in the composite attack category. But, since Reimu should be defensive, the best composite attacker is Ran herself, and the only other notable one that comes to mind is Orin, that's not really a problem.

IMO since Ran's buffs take soooo long to build up, and I tend to have Iku out almost 24/7 once I'm a good bit into the game, (And I've tried using Keine as a backup+Offtank, worked pretty great), a better use for her IMO (At least in my setups) is being an amazing attacker or a defensive buffer; keep dem DEF/MND buffs from wearing off by using it every turn, and people just switching in are already all walled up  :] Also, if you aren't doing Winner by having Ran use her DEF/MND buff every single turn to keep your entire team constantly at 80~100% buffs, you're doing it wrong and just making it harder on yourself. Seriously. Also likely applies to Hibachi Twins. DEF-Based Ran is a wonderful tank too, by the way, better in all stats then my DEF-Based Yukari that I used wonderfully the entire game.

And yes, Ran has just about the best composite damage considering her formula ((350% of each wheras the next best from Reimu/Orin are 400%, but Ran has higher stat growths albiet a little slower leveling)), and THEEEN she ALSO has better survivability AND oh my god 70% delay that is just godly, only 70. Percent. Delay. That's Aya-tier right there, even if she isn't quite as fast as Aya (still fastish though).

oh goodness ranting is fun

anyway Keine is great as a back up for Iku, a version with higher speed to actually buff up attackers before they attack in randoms, and as a tanky gal, but she definitely doesn't -replace- Iku and isn't hugely needed, which is why I dropped her after awhile

[J.O.B]

What eventful things happen in the plus disk?

[Serela]

What eventful things happen in the plus disk?

to be honest, nothing

[Eliirae]

What eventful things happen in the plus disk?

If you want, you can skip the entire plus disk and lose out on nothing aside from the ability to start a NG+.  And even then you could just grab a save file from one of these LoT threads and start a NG+.  So nothing of value is lost unless you like grinding and bossfihts and no story,

[Gesh86]

If you want, you can skip the entire plus disk and lose out on nothing aside from the ability to start a NG+.  And even then you could just grab a save file from one of these LoT threads and start a NG+.  So nothing of value is lost unless you like grinding and bossfihts and no story,

I think at some point the game even openly admits that there's no reason for the party to roam around the strange space anymore. Only nonsense happens in Plus Disk.

To me, the game was still a lot of fun until 29F. Grinding for the ultimate bosses was extremely long and annoying to say the least. (Even though only my stubbornness got me through that, I still adore the game as a whole.)

[Ghaleon]

I'd like to dispute the ran is better off buffing defense than ATk thing. I feel this way because of the way buffs deteriorate, buffing attack by just 30% is actually VERY significant due to the subtractive nature of enemy defenses. Really, I use her to buff both ATk and def, staggering each buff. It should be noted though that I play slower and more defensive (sounds odd saying that whilst defending fans ATk buff usage despite a defensive option), so I have the extra time to set up I suppose. It's also much easier to put out a super squishy who absolutely cannot take a hit, do a nuke and switch out if they are prebuffed, as opposed to having to be out for a buff and a nuke (and where the said buffer cannot act as a switcher afterwards due rituals buff's delay)

[c l e a r]

I'd like to dispute the ran is better off buffing defense than ATk thing. I feel this way because of the way buffs deteriorate, buffing attack by just 30% is actually VERY significant due to the subtractive nature of enemy defenses. Really, I use her to buff both ATk and def, staggering each buff. It should be noted though that I play slower and more defensive (sounds odd saying that whilst defending fans ATk buff usage despite a defensive option), so I have the extra time to set up I suppose. It's also much easier to put out a super squishy who absolutely cannot take a hit, do a nuke and switch out if they are prebuffed, as opposed to having to be out for a buff and a nuke (and where the said buffer cannot act as a switcher afterwards due rituals buff's delay)

Well, Ran is really the only real "safe" way to buff Flan, even her Starbow Break at Attack 30% up is a sight to behold.

[J.O.B]

I guess I'll go along the plus disk at my own rate.
Pick a team for NG+
And any restrictions if wanted.

[Pesco]

No leaving the dungeon unless all members are out of TP or KO'd :V

[J.O.B]

Sure why not? Now pick a team.

[Dr.Strafe]

How about:
-Marisa
-Minoriko
-Alice
-Rumia
-Yuugi
-Ran
-Suwako
-Yukari
-Suika
-Flandre
-Maribel

Up to you if you want a twelfth character.

[J.O.B]

Any restirctions for the characters? Also 12th char has to be Meiling :V

[Dr.Strafe]

Any restirctions for the characters? Also 12th char has to be Meiling :V

Skill points and level bonuses can only be spent on EVA. :V
I'm kidding. No additional restrictions. Your blonde run (+Meiling?) should give you plenty of challenge.

[J.O.B]

Lol, I was worried for a second. Plus I wouldn't count Minoriko as much of a Blonde but there aren't much more people so....

[Dr.Strafe]

Lol, I was worried for a second. Plus I wouldn't count Minoriko as much of a Blonde but there aren't much more people so....

Many fanarts depict her as blonde. But if you disagree, take her out. Good luck without a suitable healer, though  :V

[J.O.B]

I'm gonna keep her anyway. Also Pesco I'm not actually patient enough to do that so I guess I'm just going to use the team.

[Pesco]

Running out of TP to leave the dungeon is very easy to do.

[Parallaxal]

Well, Ran is really the only real "safe" way to buff Flan, even her Starbow Break at Attack 30% up is a sight to behold.

If you find the need to buff Flandre, you're probably doing something wrong.

Personally, the one thing I don't like about Ran's buffs is that it takes so many turns to "set up". Other buffers like Iku or Keine will have your attackers doing significantly more damage right from the beginning of the fight. If you set up optimal switching sequences, you can keep your attackers buffed for the duration of the fight as well.

Then again, I am also an impatient player. But I agree that Ran makes for an excellent attacker.

[Serela]

That "blonde team" (+Meiling) actually isn't half bad. You don't have Reimu, but Yukari and Rumia combined make up for it, and otherwise it seems fairly nice.

Not having Iku or Keine means you'll probably want to use Ran as full-time offensive buffer, though. Especially so Rumia's Demarcation will have the required power. Maribel will be more useful then she normally is because she'll be the only one who can quickly get buffed ATK/MAG.

[Ghaleon]

If you find the need to buff Flandre, you're probably doing something wrong.

Personally, the one thing I don't like about Ran's buffs is that it takes so many turns to "set up". Other buffers like Iku or Keine will have your attackers doing significantly more damage right from the beginning of the fight. If you set up optimal switching sequences, you can keep your attackers buffed for the duration of the fight as well.

Then again, I am also an impatient player. But I agree that Ran makes for an excellent attacker.

I kinda mentioned it but went off tangent a bit regarding defense using subtractive formulas. But yeah, I meant to say that 30% buffs from ran (or whoever) are more significant than I think people give credit to. Because it doesn't really deteriorate so much as a major buff would. Plus with ran, you actually see 100%s around quite often in +disk content for your less used characters. I really think people subconsciously think that 60% or 70% is SOO much better than say 30%. But the fact is, it's no where near twice as good, especially when it's done to the whole party.

[c l e a r]

If you find the need to buff Flandre, you're probably doing something wrong.

Personally, the one thing I don't like about Ran's buffs is that it takes so many turns to "set up". Other buffers like Iku or Keine will have your attackers doing significantly more damage right from the beginning of the fight. If you set up optimal switching sequences, you can keep your attackers buffed for the duration of the fight as well.

Then again, I am also an impatient player. But I agree that Ran makes for an excellent attacker.

It definitely made a difference to ***CHEATER***, that's for sure.  Fuck his Flesh to Stone.

[Serela]

Ran actually only buffs 20%.

70% IS really good in comparison to 20%; throw on one buff, and you're good to go. Thing about Ran is if you aren't casting it constantly, then it's not going to do a lot, and you CAN'T cast it constantly until later in plus disk due to sheer cost. Yes, she buffs the whole party, but for most of the game she'll go through all her SP soon and it takes awhile to get the numbers up; Iku can just throw one buff as soon as they're switched into the front and you're likely up to 100% again.

Ran's certainly still very good buff-wise though. And, her buff DOES do enough to keep buffs from deteriorating; once you CAN afford to spam her buffs constantly, having her keep the entire party at 80~100% DEF/MND buff forever makes a GIGANTIC difference.

jeez I like capitals :c

also it doesn't hurt that MAG-based ran spamming En No Ozuno on a boss is fucking amazing, and still fairly durable

[Parallaxal]

Isn't Ran's buff 20% to active members, 15% to inactive party? Iku's buff is 72%, btw.

[Ghaleon]

Yeah I wasn't claiming Ran can do 30% in one go. It was more of a "realistic" figure of buff%s she can effectively maintain on the entire party before post game kinda deal. Personally I think she can easily maintain more if you make her atk/mag only but whatever.

[chirpy13]

I think I might pick this game up again.  I got bored around 21 or 22F or something because I didn't feel like grinding past there, but I'm considering a solo character run or something for fun.  Solo as in one character at a time with swaps allowed of course, since I don't think anyone's versatile enough to do a true solo without severe overleveling, and even this seems pretty ridiculous....  In any case, how do I New Game+?  I never saw the option anywhere after clearing the main game.

[Parallaxal]

NG+ is unlocked after clearing the final bonus boss of the 30th floor. There's a save file with a NG+ character roster in the first post though, I believe.

[chirpy13]

NG+ is unlocked after clearing the final bonus boss of the 30th floor. There's a save file with a NG+ character roster in the first post though, I believe.

Ah okay, that explains things then.  [ur=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihJwoAyhT_Ql]Progress so far.[/url]

EDIT: And while I'm thinking of it, I assume I should modify my builds a little to have some of the beefier attackers go pure def or mind for survival purposes (since they'll still deal okayish damage and not die so fast).  What's the pros' opinions on who should go with what builds for something like this?

[Hanzo K.]

Hm, looks like I've been doing things right so far.
Still trapped in the maze bit. And I still don't have Tenshi.


I'm starting to consider streaming most of this just so folks can lend a hand.

[Mr. Sacchi]

Hm, looks like I've been doing things right so far.
Still trapped in the maze bit. And I still don't have Tenshi.


I'm starting to consider streaming most of this just so folks can lend a hand.

Paral did a video-walkthrough of floors 10~12, if that's where you're at.

Part 1
Part 2