Author Topic: Labyrinth of Touhou 7F (Read 201873 times)

chirpy13 · « **Reply #270 on:** May 19, 2011, 01:23:18 AM »

FUCK YOU MARIBEL MOTHERFUCKING HAN!! As I'm about to clear the boss rush, she decides to hit me with her death spell. Flan dies, everyone else gets hit with DTH. :colonveeplusalpha:

Edit: Got 5 stars now. Maribel V2 just knocked off Mystia on round 1. Pretty big jump from normal Mari, who can't hit over 1-2k on my weakest characters.

NEETori · « **Reply #271 on:** May 19, 2011, 06:35:32 AM »

Note that you will not be able to take Maribel v.2 for a while. Not until you can handle Baal Avatar, IMO.

chirpy13 · « **Reply #272 on:** May 19, 2011, 05:13:24 PM »

Quote from: NEETori on May 19, 2011, 06:35:32 AM

Note that you will not be able to take Maribel v.2 for a while. Not until you can handle Baal Avatar, IMO.

That sounds about right... I went into Baal and got the same deal. Opener --> dead Tenshi. That's definitely a first.

NEETori · « **Reply #273 on:** May 19, 2011, 06:14:22 PM »

You will also be finding Tenshi less and less awesome throughout the Plus disk. She stops taking 0s from everything even when buffed, which means she's inferior to Meiling by proxy of Meiling having better HP.

Serela · « **Reply #274 on:** May 19, 2011, 07:59:27 PM »

Although on the upside, her HP starts becoming less crappy!

...

But yeah, Tenshi is only worth considering due to her Sword of Rapture later on. Which, admittedly, can be a legitimate reason to use her in certain fights (I can understand wanting to dispell Winner's 50% ATK boost, especially if he uses it more then once before it wears off...!) but generally she's not too exciting.

She can still tank, but overall Meiling is a better choice, partially because in Plus Disk, Healer is actually a pretty nice heal!

In maingame though, her sheer ability to take 0s from near-everything is quite eye-catching, I've gotta say.

NEETori · « **Reply #275 on:** May 20, 2011, 12:12:59 AM »

Defenses scale less impressively than offensive stats in plus disk, from what it seems as well. While most off my tanky stay-in attackers are turning into nukes, my tanks that aren't Yukari, Reimu, Iku and Meiling have slowly gotten more disappointing. Komachi's switch to ATK-based means she can deal amazing damage, so yeah. My Komachi has 100k Attack with no gear boosts, so if I geared her as an attacker, she'd probably have as much as Nitori (who is sitting at a comfortable 150k with 2 Gurthangs and an Armads).

Oh, Tenshi's Sword of Rapture will help vs. Okuu, but otherwise, whatever Tenshi does, Meiling does it better.

Serela · « **Reply #276 on:** May 20, 2011, 12:22:30 AM »

Quote from: NEETori on May 20, 2011, 12:12:59 AM

Defenses scale less impressively than offensive stats in plus disk, from what it seems as well.

I found it went the other way around. Alice went from being less frail then the average caster to being tanky, for example, and around reaching Winner, pretty much everyone is far more capable of taking hits then previously. Not to even mention how ridiculous affinity boosting is, since even my Yuugi takes pretty small damage from elemental magic after a little special attention.

Unfortunately, Winner becomes ridiculously boring after a little while because the fights are pretty straightforward and nonexciting and take like half a year to finish. I didn't even have to switch ONCE on my 10th battle at Reimu lv700, using a team of Yuugi/Ran/Iku/Reimu. I had Iku attacking with Thunder Drum for about a fifth of Yuugi's damage. Yeah switching probably woulda made it a little faster and less boring, but not by a whole lot...

NEETori · « **Reply #277 on:** May 20, 2011, 12:26:30 AM »

Everyone gains the ability to take hits better, except Komachi (who's progressively higher-growing HP but relatively worse and worse defenses), and Tenshi (who's essentially Komachi except in reverse), so I guess you're right about that.

But there's serious power creeping after level 400 or so. Alice and Mystia for me have fantastic defensive stats and amazing offensive stats, too. Reimu, as I've mentioned before, is essentially a MND version of Meiling, except with an offensive presence.

Serela · « **Reply #278 on:** May 20, 2011, 12:32:43 AM »

Bah, Reimu should be far too busy healing/buffing/PARing/gettingswitchedoutfordelay to attack ;P

Right about Alice and Mystia though! They're quite nice.

Another thing that happens, which can be both good and bad, is SPD. It just kind of evens out over the board. You have your slower people (Only tanks should be in this group purely for switching efficiency, even if you COULD make them fast), your normal people, and people named stuff like Chen or Aya.

Even YUYUKO stops seeming slow. Which is good so that you can actually hit random battles with her DTH attacks before they all move. And speaking of Yuyuko, her MND becomes amazing. Almost as good as MND-based Reimu's. That combined with higher SP for more Flawless Nirvana makes her wonderful.

NEETori · « **Reply #279 on:** May 20, 2011, 12:45:45 AM »

Reimu's offensive presence is for grindan. Helps to have a fast, cheap spirit nuke that isn't from Hourai NEET

Rukoto · « **Reply #280 on:** May 23, 2011, 12:32:53 AM »

After a long hiatus from this game I finally pick myself up again, at 30F (still). I got a warm welcome from Hibachi 2 V2's Dual Funeral Washing Machine; it successfully killed my active party in one shot. Is Reimu 454 too low?

EDIT: Oh wait Reimu's actually level 445. Was reading the Load File Screen's level.

NEETori · « **Reply #281 on:** May 23, 2011, 08:42:09 AM »

Wiki says 445-530, so I'd image about Reimu 475-500ish

Ghaleon · « **Reply #282 on:** May 23, 2011, 08:52:40 AM »

Make sure you kill the correct one first (the one with a stronger magic attack and weaker physical attack), that helps.

It's a really stupid fight though, I personally find no shame in beating it a bit over level if need be because fact is there's not really much strategy in it since 100% of the challenge is managing a beserk hibachi, which is best done by counting hps and rounds and entering beserk mode at the right time, which is right/wrong tedium rather than actual strategy...It's a shitty fight.

NEETori · « **Reply #283 on:** May 23, 2011, 08:55:24 AM »

I'm just wondering if it's possible to kill them both at the exact same time by just using Rumia, Okuu and Kaguya.

Serela · « **Reply #284 on:** May 23, 2011, 10:55:26 AM »

Quote from: Ghaleon on May 23, 2011, 08:52:40 AM

Make sure you kill the correct one first (the one with a stronger magic attack and weaker physical attack), that helps.

To be specific, the one with a stronger magic attack (the one on the right side, I think) is the one you want to LEAVE alive.

And no, it is completely impossible to kill them both at the same time, unless you can deal over 100,000,000 damage before they get another turn. The Special Disk Database has cool AI info for bosses :3

NEETori · « **Reply #285 on:** May 23, 2011, 04:50:43 PM »

Damn, there goes being a smartass and bypassing the berserk phase.
I guess I should pack a few more nukers to take down Berserkbatchi.

Pesco · « **Reply #286 on:** May 23, 2011, 04:54:03 PM »

Hax in 100% debuffs on them.

NEETori · « **Reply #287 on:** May 23, 2011, 05:11:50 PM »

Quote from: NeoSerela on May 23, 2011, 10:55:26 AM

And no, it is completely impossible to kill them both at the same time, unless you can deal over 100,000,000 damage before they get another turn.

Re-reading the damage, this makes me want to somehow abuse Spirting Away combined with buffs, Hourai Barrage and Giga Flare in order to finish them of. Of course, their initial HP Is less than a 3rd that.

Rukoto · « **Reply #288 on:** May 23, 2011, 07:14:45 PM »

Thanks for all the replies about the dual Hibachi fight. And yes I did leave Hibachi 2 (the pink magic one) alive; it still nailed Reimu for 100k+ and Yuugi for 212k (not surprised) with its nuke. Guess I'll have to waltz in 27/30F some more.

Serela · « **Reply #289 on:** May 23, 2011, 07:48:27 PM »

With Dual Funeral Washing Machine, you pretty much just pray that either it DOESN'T GET USED before you win, or that Meiling survives it. Or maybe Komachi if you use her, but I dunno how much HP she would have/take. Mostly you pray it doesn't happen.

Leaving the magic one alive is more because, due to affinities and most characters having better MND then DEF, it's just easier to survive it going berserk; and partially due to their strongest non-washing attack, Needle Parade, being devastating when the ATK-based one goes berserk.

You still really want to damage them evenly, partially because less berserk time is better, and partially because when they go berserk, their HP becomes 10m plus double whatever they had remaining. Or just 10m if they were both below "zero" hp (aka below the 100m buffer HP they have) at the time. If you only hurt one, then the remaining would have a killer 70m HP in berserk mode :ohdear:

Ghaleon · « **Reply #290 on:** May 23, 2011, 10:57:25 PM »

Quote from: NeoSerela on May 23, 2011, 10:55:26 AM

To be specific, the one with a stronger magic attack (the one on the right side, I think) is the one you want to LEAVE alive.

And no, it is completely impossible to kill them both at the same time, unless you can deal over 100,000,000 damage before they get another turn. The Special Disk Database has cool AI info for bosses :3

derrp. I meant to say that but said the opposite. doh, thanks.

Stryfender · « **Reply #291 on:** May 24, 2011, 04:30:01 AM »

After 170 hours, more grinding then I've ever done in my 17 years of gaming, I simply give the hell up. WINNER is the most demoralizing, infuriating, punch-fist-though-wall RPG boss I've encountered. I can see him sneering at me as he uses Time Stop, then proceeds to buff his speed and attack before Sword of Light/Hammering someone I need alive. Or down 80mil HP then proceeds to use Medicine of Life twice in a row, pretty much undoing about 30 minutes of work. Of if that fails start spamming Ether Flare or Overgrown... how people. Do I have to fight this guy for a hour long slog and pray he suddenly has a "lol, time to make him rage quit" moment?

Unassuming Squid · « **Reply #292 on:** May 24, 2011, 05:58:57 AM »

Alright. I finally managed to obtain the Touhouvania 2 portrait rips, so I adapted them for LoT. Filenames are Alice_Touhouvania2, Chen_Touhouvania, Flandre_Touhouvania2, Komachi_Touhouvania, Marisa_Touhouvania3, Meiling_Touhouvania2, Patchouli_Touhouvania3, Ran_Touhouvania, Remilia_Touhouvania2, Sakuya_Touhouvania3, Youmu_Touhouvania, Yukari_Touhouvania, and Yuyuko_Touhouvania.

http://www.mediafire.com/?l61o19nxqt82j

[attach=1]

NEETori · « **Reply #293 on:** May 24, 2011, 07:53:02 AM »

I'm digging Youmu's sweater-vest-dress-shirt combo.

Dr.Strafe · « **Reply #294 on:** May 24, 2011, 11:31:20 AM »

Yeah, the Touhouvania artwork is always impressive. Definitely going to use badass Reimu in my set.

Ghaleon · « **Reply #295 on:** May 24, 2011, 05:45:45 PM »

I found winner to be an amazingly rewarding and fun fight sans timestop which may require some luck. Basically if he timestops after buffing, then chooses to use his big nukes, eek. It should ONlY be a fight screwed if he buffs just before and uses his biggest nukes after though.

As for his heals, he has a limited number of uses for each the small and the large (iirc on the first iteration he can only use the small 3 times and the large once). Basically, you should just treat the heals as a free turn for yourself, and factor them into his max hp, EXPECTING him to use em eventually in the fight, if he does t, consider yourself lucky.

As for badass Reimu, yeah, she's gorgeous, though I can't say I like her hair-do much.

NEETori · « **Reply #296 on:** May 24, 2011, 06:04:30 PM »

I'm in need of a new Flan, but really there hasn't been much that satisfies the sense of badass moe that Flan is.

Personally, I don't think of Flan as a psycho so much as a child who doesn't know her own strength. A fairly mature child, mind you, but still a child. Then again, there's not too much on her in canon.

Speaking of Flan, screwed by attack multipliers. Then again, if her multipliers were buffed up any appreciable amount, she'd probably be just as broken as Nitori.

Ghaleon · « **Reply #297 on:** May 24, 2011, 06:10:27 PM »

Yeah, I don't like batshit insane flan either. But my Flan portrait is fine enough for me (don't remember the source, but I'm sure it's one of the ones stickied or whatever).

To clarify about winner though, the grind itself is horrible, that part is NOT rewarding >=P

NEETori · « **Reply #298 on:** May 24, 2011, 06:13:52 PM »

Then again, grinding is almost never rewarding.

Spoiler:

Serela · « **Reply #299 on:** May 24, 2011, 06:19:08 PM »

One thing that makes a world of difference for Winner is using a DEF and/or MND based Ran in your front 4 spamming her DEF/MND buff the entire battle. Because of how damage formulas work, having 20~30% more buff (as she'll keep you at 80~100% buff p.much permanently) REALLY helps.

And if the doesn't have the SP for it, giving her an item should fix that right up. Dear god SP items practically double your SP in Plus. Yukari and Ran and Yuyuko are pretty much the only ones who can USE more SP at that point though, anyway. And Kaggy for random trash, I guess.