Author Topic: A Balanced Game of Mafia (Over; town wins) (Read 52908 times)

Shadoweh · « **Reply #390 on:** April 26, 2011, 12:36:09 AM »

I have this spore spot on my forehead right now. This case might be delayed due to lack of brain function.

Dan: This kind of stuff is why even after Dormio's flip people aren't considering you confirmed town.

ActionDan · « **Reply #391 on:** April 26, 2011, 12:40:05 AM »

Quote

buddies.

I don't mean to nitpick here (well actually I do). But this implies there are 2 two scum other than me.....
You if you were assuming I was a scum you might have instead said buddy. Just sayin'

GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em · « **Reply #392 on:** April 26, 2011, 12:41:20 AM »

That was a slip because I'm scum and actually have two remaining buddies instead of just one. Edible lied about the set-up in the first post because he's a bastard mod.

GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em · « **Reply #393 on:** April 26, 2011, 12:45:13 AM »

Okay, on second thought, I'm going to stop trolling.

Dan, please think of the implications before you post things. I could have sworn somebody already explained this, but mentioning who you think the PRs are is BAD because it helps scum decide who to nightkill. Your wording nitpick about me makes absolutely no sense and does not imply anything about my alignment whatsoever because none of the remaining scum can have more than one buddy regardless. It's meaningless and I have no idea why you felt the need to point it out, unless you wanted to waste our time.

While I'm here, I think I'm going to re-read Hourai. More on that in a bit.

ActionDan · « **Reply #394 on:** April 26, 2011, 12:55:34 AM »

I'm just saying the sentence kind of reads better like this:

Quote

It comes off like you're scum trying to communicate with your buddy.

instead of

Quote

It comes off like you're scum trying to communicate with your buddies.

You might think it's lame but to me it's like a possible slip (buddies = you + other scum, instead of, buddy = other scum)
Honestly I thought the PR thing was lame too.. but that doesn't stop everyone telling me its bad to even mention PR.
I didn't get mad over it cuz UK and shadow have a point.

GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em · « **Reply #395 on:** April 26, 2011, 01:03:05 AM »

Yeah, okay, I didn't really get much out of re-reading Hourai that people haven't already stated before, but I'd like to note that before he gave Sect the newbpass, Hourai paid attention to and attacked Sect early on in D1 but unleashed his wrath and vote on Dan instead. Not the most admirable, considering Sect's current situation. Somewhat interesting how he goes after Dan for defending Sect when Hourai's actions here could actually be interpreted as defending Sect as well. If Sect is scum (and I'm still fairly confident he is), I could definitely see Hourai as the final of the three, perhaps even moreso than Bard. I'll have to take a closer look at Bard/Hourai overnight following Sect's flip. Additionally, Hourai has not said anything about Sect today, which is... augh. Hourai, where do you currently stand on Sect, now that Dormio has flipped scum?

Sect · « **Reply #396 on:** April 26, 2011, 01:17:38 AM »

Okay, honestly, I've had enough of these shenanigans.

I'm scum.

##Unvote
##Vote Sect

Someone please finish me off already.

UncertainJakutten · « **Reply #397 on:** April 26, 2011, 01:18:38 AM »

I can't tell if you're lying so you can die or not.

Sect · « **Reply #398 on:** April 26, 2011, 01:21:03 AM »

If I'm lying town, then you lose a useless townie. If I'm scum, then you're closer to winning. Win-win situation, really.

GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em · « **Reply #399 on:** April 26, 2011, 01:22:46 AM »

If Sect was town who got tired of playing, he would probably just request a modkill or replacement, considering that's what he did in his first game.

...And even if he wouldn't, I'd like to believe that he has the decency to not do something this anti-alignment as a townie. <_< Granted, it totally would be anti-alignment if he were scum, too, but he's probably going to die anyway and if somebody lynched him now the day would at least end early, benifiting scum.

Speaking of which.

##Unvote

Shadoweh · « **Reply #400 on:** April 26, 2011, 01:23:17 AM »

Even if he's telling the truth we still have lots of day left to talk about it.
<_< I'm just going to throw this case out now and assume we're looking for Dormio x Sect x

then.

GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em · « **Reply #401 on:** April 26, 2011, 01:24:48 AM »

oh but he also got rid of any chance of hourai answering me in guaranteed honest manner argh

Yeah, Sect is scum helping scum by attempting to self-hammer. <_<

UncertainJakutten · « **Reply #402 on:** April 26, 2011, 01:25:35 AM »

Yeah, that's probably the best course of action, Shadoweh.

Shadoweh · « **Reply #403 on:** April 26, 2011, 01:26:20 AM »

In fact I have a huge headache now so I'm going to take the time to lie down and think about it. Also:
##Unvote

ActionDan · « **Reply #404 on:** April 26, 2011, 01:29:41 AM »

I don't mind talking more, but by the end of the day, I still want Sect dead. His flip will help us out regardless.

GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em · « **Reply #405 on:** April 26, 2011, 01:29:51 AM »

Sect, are you the Scum Roleblocker?

GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em · « **Reply #406 on:** April 26, 2011, 01:36:36 AM »

After thinking things over, Hourai seems like a better pick for Sect's buddy to me than Bard. While Bard did claim that the Sect case was uninteresting to him, I don't think that is as bad as ignoring it outright, and the timing of Sect's scumclaim could be interpreted as an interruption to my questioning of his buddy.

Plus, from being buddies with him in Zombie Apocalypse, I would expect scum!Bard to be hardbussing Sect right now. It might be a bit silly for a meta clear, but it is noted nonetheless.

Haven't given Polly a proper lookover yet. I'll do that soon.

Oh, and considering Sect's vote during D1, Shadoweh is now completely obvtown to me. I would personally suspect the third scum to be somebody off her wagon (hi Hourai), too, unless they were really that determined in getting her lynched.

GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em · « **Reply #407 on:** April 26, 2011, 01:39:28 AM »

On that note, I feel like everybody is ignoring my posts today. I've got maybe what, one response? <_<

Kiro · « **Reply #408 on:** April 26, 2011, 01:51:30 AM »

To humor Bard's #337, my Shadoweh vote was a Day 1 case so I'm most flexible then. She was looking more Townie as she made her arguments and I didn't want to lynch her anymore. The way I worded it is vague and I don't want to deal in absolutes and have it bite me in the ass later. And the comment about getting Hourai and Polaris more involved was exactly that. They were not contributing and I figure if I draw a little attention to myself to get them to respond, it's worth it. But yeah, it possibly could have been bad. Maybe we might revisit this in postgame.

That said, I can see you bringing it up and not giving me a clear, but why? Your choices are me and Omba and I'm having a hard time believing you think the last 2 scum both bussed, one that started the wagon and one that kept the Dormio wagon tied rather than shift it to Dan. Especially when we had to deadline struggle to get Dormio.

Uh, thanks Doc. And yes, it doesn't condemn Bard. We'll deal with it.

Quote from: Bardiche on April 25, 2011, 07:58:24 PM

Ombra, your entire "omg u must haf brains" assumes scum'd be so goddamn retarded it's not even funny. No, there is no wisdom in scum trying to lynch Kiro: scum typically attack what they think is the towniest person in the game, and that person is usually most difficult to lynch. If scum decided Kiro was that person, why in the hell would a scumBard attempt to even try and lynch that person? Your scenario assumes scum is goddamn retarded. You're still left with a shaky WIFOM reasoning that you blew your claim on.

I disagree with that. It's a nutty WIFOM loop since now you suggest that you would never do such a thing as Scum. But maybe just this once, it could work and we'd let it pass. Considering how far behind Scum is currently in this game, they might be forced to go with such a gnarly gambit. One reason you could do this as Scum is because your buddy was also on Dan's wagon and you realize just how royally screwed you'd be if you played it conservative.

Verdict: Still a person of great interest.

Breaktime, Funday Monday.

Cut: Oh shit, Sect voted himself... Let's not end the Day yet.

ActionDan · « **Reply #409 on:** April 26, 2011, 01:59:26 AM »

HW if it makes you feel better I think all your D2 posts have been good. and also Welcome to club (except people don't call you :derp:)

Bardiche · « **Reply #410 on:** April 26, 2011, 04:30:22 AM »

Right, Kiro. Except the argument presented was against Ombra's "I assume you have brains!" validating that IF scum attacked Kiro who was GUARDED, THEN scum would LOGICALLY attempt to lynch Kiro during the next day. This logic doesn't hold because usually scum attempt to kill the towniest person alive and that's also the hardest target to lynch. If you assume a scumBard will take the smartest and easiest route, he would never make a Kiro case.

If you assume scumBard would perform Unlimited Gambit Works, then he might! He might. Except getting a town flip on you would've condemned scum, too, and the risk would be a Doc claiming. ~~Obviously all in my calculations, I am scum with Sect and have elegantly laid bare the Doc.~~

This game has trolls in it, I'm just not sure who's trolling who.

Bardiche · « **Reply #411 on:** April 26, 2011, 04:46:23 AM »

In short Kiro, that just means it's an entire WIFOM mess, which means that arguments as "I'm assuming you have brains!" doesn't really work in attempting to mount a case, because it'd more be gutsy than logical for scumBard to make a vote on you. Your entire post elegantly danced around the entire purpose behind it and twisted it.

>: I'd vote you but Ombra self-destructed to save you and all. It'd be uncouth of me to still insist you're scum.

Sect, stop adding to the shenanigans. It's bad enough already, we both know this.

Kiro · « **Reply #412 on:** April 26, 2011, 05:29:01 AM »

Um, so yeah... I don't need to reread Sect. Whether he's frustrated Scum, or frustrated Townie (please don't be frustrated Townie), he's getting lynched today.

Hourai #373: Not sure why you earlier said I shouldn't give Bard a pass and then you kind of do it yourself with your unvote there. That being said, the case on Polaris is reasonable if he doesn't think Sect or Bard was Scum. Except he doesn't say anything about Bard at all. Best thing Hourai has going for him is that Polaris really is nowhere to be found and any contribution he'd make to Day 2 is now skewed. I guess it all really depends on reread after the Sect flip.

Oh yeah, Dan, when we have the full disclosure of the game at the end, we're all going to discuss things you did right (which I believe there are some), and things you did wrong (which I believe there are some more).

Hi HW. To me, you're kind of like Zakeri right now. Both of you posting reasonably but still wary of because neither of you were really on Dormio Day 1. Your #399 gives me hope that the forced lynch is indeed worth going for along with Sect's earlier stances.

I might be done with questions for today. We gonna let all of us sound off before we decide to go ahead with Sect?

Cut by Bard: Except you might not be expecting me to get lynched anyways as you introduced your case. Would Scum you waste the time to do that and then eventually back off? It lends credence to the whole, "it's so stupid he can't be Scum" vibe. Indeed, I'm not sure what purposes it serves, but I threw my opinion at it to keep us on our toes about you which is the best anybody can do anyways.

ActionDan · « **Reply #413 on:** April 26, 2011, 05:57:57 AM »

@Kiro: sounding off sounds fine to me, as long as the whole group gets to post once more from now until a Sect lynch.

Ya I'm sure post game discussion will be fun! I always have fun reading the QT's. I see nothing to justify not lynching Sect at this point; he's the best canidate plus his flip will be quite useful in regards to HW, Bard, and HH. My vote is on him and staying there. We can keep him at L-2 until the past two people chime in.

Shadoweh · « **Reply #414 on:** April 26, 2011, 06:45:49 AM »

So if it wasn't obvious I've been focusing my rereads on Hourai and Polaris. I still find huh what less suspicious (hi huh what!) and he hasn't entertained any ideas today besides Sect's untimely death even before his claim, so I find him even less worth looking into now.

Hourai: I'm skipping over the Dan fight comments because they've been done to death. His comment about Dormio as his second scum pick comes at post #170, and it does come before Dormio became OmegaSuspicious. On his Day 2, his reasoning for unvoting Bardiche is incredibly vague. What about his content was better and made you believe he looked better then Polaris?

Polaris: I might be biased from the start since I never liked his 'forgettable' comment. At least he's easy to read over! The first thing he does is vote for Dan. He stays on Dan for the entire day, making comments on Dan, Omba, Dormio, myself and huh what. Two names that are missing from this list that pertain to Day 2 are Sect and Hourai. His points against Dormio are always secondary to Dan and even when he votes for Dormio he makes it obvious he's still willing to go the other way. His Day 2 post does the same thing with Sect, saying he wouldn't mind a Sect lynch but pursuing Hourai instead. Since Kiro was already voting for Hourai it's possible he saw this as the best viable counter-wagon to Sect.

This plays out about the same as before considering Sect as scum actually. I would pursue Polaris over Hourai, and either of them over Bard or huh what, with some UK thrown in there depending on how she makes me feel. There isn't much further we can go on cases before feeding Sect to ZE HOUNDS! I need more content from Zak before I can get a feel for him either way.

Kiro: Your argument with Bard right now sounds alot like "Bard could have not done this thing as scum OR MAYBE HE DID!" I don't think pursuing that WIFOM really helps making a case either way. We already have enough newbies going after red herrings.

Omba · « **Reply #415 on:** April 26, 2011, 10:26:38 AM »

Quote from: Bardiche on April 26, 2011, 04:46:23 AM

In short Kiro, that just means it's an entire WIFOM mess, which means that arguments as "I'm assuming you have brains!" doesn't really work in attempting to mount a case, because it'd more be gutsy than logical for scumBard to make a vote on you.

Assuming you've got brains was not about what you'd do as scum, but rather what you wouldn't do as town. That being voting the most town looking player with that kind of weak points and when there were enough people around looking far more scummy. Now I thought Kiro was most likely town even before Dormio's flip, but still, that might have been just how I perceived it and it still might have been skewed on D2 since I then knew he's town. Only as far as I can tell pretty much everyone and their dog thought Kiro was town, too. Hence if you didn't, there had to be a good reason for it, one way or another.
Now of course everyone could have overlooked some really scummy looking things about him that made him look scummy to you - but, again, the points you actually brought up were damn weak for making him your prime suspect.
And at this point, I'm wondering why townBard would do this. "You simply made a mistake" is one possibility - which I'm pretty much discarding because of the brains thing. Which leaves me with "you deliberately did it for some reason" - and now the speculation comes in and makes a scum-intended move on your part seem far more likely to me than a town-intended one; your move already looked scummy without the whole Doc thing, the latter is just the icing on the cake.

And we really have to lynch Sect now, huh. Not much to add for me until I see his flip.

WHMZakeri · « **Reply #416 on:** April 26, 2011, 03:26:04 PM »

Bardiche is my top suspect right now, and is probably who I'm going to concentrate my rereads for tomorrow on. I'll also reread Polaris, and make a few other Iso on people not on my town list. My town list however, only really consists of people Dormio And Sect wanted lynched, so it's a little short.

Mostly, what I want to see is Bardiche making more cases. Those always seem to turn up funny when he's scum, so either He's town and they convince me not to lynch him, or they'll be good entertainment value for the remainder of the game.

Bard's argument that Scum wouldn't want to try and get a lynch on Kiro after the NK failed on him is silly. Being the Nightkill (especially on night one) Doesn't nessicerily mean that you're the hardest to lynch. It could mean no one has expressed the want to lynch, it could mean they've expressed want to lynch of a member of the mafia, it could mean the random number generator hates them. And in the case of MotK Mafia, it could also mean that they are Kiro (isn't one of the general rules of doctor play on MotK "Always Protect Kiro"? I remember a game where scum tried to kill Kiro repeatedly, even after the doctor claimed).

I'm pretty certain the point Bard is trying to get across is the same point that I'm making, and that the fact that Bardiche made a Case on whoever was last night's NK is a nulltell. Of course, that's the farthest his counterpoint goes, it it should be obvious from the post above mine, if not before that, that Omba's case on Bardiche has evolved beyond just "Making a case on the guy he failed to NK."

Also, it occurs to me I've been ignoring HW. His day one play, I fall under the category of "Okay, I get how he responded wrong, but how does that make him scum" line of thinking. Focusing on UK was definitely bad, but it's obvious the only reason he did that was because UK was intentionally trying to provoke him. You could have infered this from my earlier omittions, but HW is not a prime suspect to me right now.

Oh, dear Town Belle, you seem unusually quiet this game. Are you not feeling well? Do you need a~~nother posting restriction~~ handkerchief?

Bardiche · « **Reply #417 on:** April 26, 2011, 03:49:57 PM »

Actually you're all right, I'm scum with Sect. I completely voted Kiro not because I thought there was something scummy about it and look at things in a different way, it's because I do but look at it from a scum perspective. ScumBard would totally do that.

##Unvote
##Vote: Sect

Sorry buddy, bussing you hard for town cred, maybe it'll let me live. <3

Edible · « **Reply #418 on:** April 26, 2011, 03:58:00 PM »

Votecount: In English, because I cannot present a votecount in facepalm-ese

Hanged Hourai (2) - Kiro, Polaris
Sect (5) - Action Dan, UncertainKitten, Zakeri, Sect, Bardiche
Bardiche (1) - Omba
Polaris (1) - Hanged Hourai

Sect is at L-1!

~25 hours remain. 11 alive takes 6 to lynch.

Bardiche · « **Reply #419 on:** April 26, 2011, 04:06:27 PM »

To further explain, I voted Kiro because in my one game with him, I immediately perceived the MotK meta of always attacking Kiro, and always defending him. I further believed the best course of action was to do something completely nonsensical to anyone but me so as to further throw off people's guards.

Why am I scum? It's because I never took to easy trains in a calculated move to garner townie cred while obfuscating my real status as the scum roleblocker, master of gambits and the purveyor of fine suits. In fact, I am so scummy that once Sect flips as my scumbuddy (I love you man but you totally shouldn't have revealed Dan annoyed you so much you wanted him gone as a requirement for enjoying this game), you'll win the game once you tie me up for the lynch.

Never bother that I made a case on Kiro that reeks of ten kinds of bad. I do this as town as much as I do it as scum, but this game it's scum-oriented because Kiro is my failed nightkill, and like a real man Bard never lets his real target die. Tonight I'll be offing Ombra who is on to me, further pointing that I am scum aiming at people who MAY BE ON TO ME because this is in my meta.

Also, I tried to get rid of Dan on D1 because he is the most helpful obvtown the game has ever known.

Now, can we lynch Sect and I, preferably in that order? I don't mind if I go before Sect either, but I'm not sure if he'll last another day of these shenanigans.