Author Topic: Myths  (Read 28524 times)

Forte Blackadder

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Re: Myths
« Reply #30 on: April 18, 2011, 04:30:34 PM »
It's called "Ouija", there are various version from the West to the East, but it's pretty much the same rule: A board with characters, more than 1 people to play and several accidents.
The Ouija board was invented to perform fortune telling, like Mariya Shidou said. However, the problem is not because it's twisted with nowadays rumors, but because it was used with the help of spirits. People believed that deceased spirits have power to read into destiny, so they summoned them into the board and ask them for what happens in the future. The reason of the scary rumors was the players can't know what kind of spirit will they summon. If they summon a calm one, they'll just get the predict normally, but if they summon a raged, vengeful one.... you get the idea.

There are two kinds of Ouija play in the East: Ouija Jin (仙 - god, celestial) and Ouija Ma (魔 - ghost). Jin is the divine kind of Ouiji, has almost no chance of curse of haunt, but only high skilled Taoist of Shaman can do. Ma is the normal play which everyone can do.

The tools to play this is a board and a planchette. Mostly made from wood. The planchette is especially good if made from the wood of a coffin (from the grave of course, it's no use if you get if from a brand new coffin which never had a corpse rest inside). If can't get it, you can use a coin or a normal wood, the older the better.
The players are divided in 2 groups: Possessers (no idea how to translated into English so I chose the role to name them) and the Observers. The Possessers can be anyone, but best are kids about 12 years old or so. The Observers are the ones to take the characters into sentences and so on.

The possessers get possessed (of course) to move the planchette. There are differences in West and East Ouija, in the West, the game stops when the planchette goes to "Good bye", in the East, the game stops when you turn over the board and shout "Stop!". The problem is sometimes the spirit doesn't leave the board, thus causing horror like the board suddenly appears somewhere, makes noise and so on. There are several ways to exorcise the spirit, Christian cross or Buddhism symbol (卍) usually do the trick.

So, what do we have for Ouija stories? A LOT! Usually, the horror starts during the game, the players start feeling chilly, hearing noises and the possesser goes mad. Sometimes, the spirit takes over the possesser and drain the life force. If the possesser doesn't get exorcised right away, he will eventually lose his body to the spirit. In which case, a reincarnation. Other stories go as the players' relatives' death was predicted. I can't tell you any story about Ouija board I experienced because I forgot all of them, so why don't you just go for a ride yourself?

Ok, today I was looking at... Chen. A Black Cat of Bad Omen, now now, isn't she cute? Well, as far as I know, not at all.  :V

Black cats have always been treated as bad luck and carry evil in the East. They're like shadows, appears in the dark and attack anything. A hundred years old black cat grows a long tail, almost as long as its body. It only appears in nights and whenever it goes to, the lights are out. They usually appears in the house where has a corpse, jumps over the coffin and creates a Jiang Shi (read #1 post). Black cats also have great potential to get possessed by evil spirits, which then feeds on human flesh to go to the next level. They bring very bad luck to the person that see them, but not the same as Black Dogs which brings death. The misfortune black cats brings won't kill the person, but makes him live a terrible terrible life, failures, rejections, hatred and vain.

Why is it? Here is one story... Once upon a time, there was a beautiful girl. She lived a happy life and married a wealthy man from another village. When she was pregnant, they found out that the man already had a wife, but she couldn't give birth so he had to marry another for the lineage. The wife hated the girl, and secretly mixed poison in her drink therefore killed the baby before it was born. Thrice. The girl was upset, and angry. On her death bed, she swore she will come back and kill the wife and all her kids if she ever has one. In the next life, the girl became a leopard, and the wife became a deer. The leopard keeps hunting and eating the fawns and eventually kills the mother deer too. In the next life, the wife became a snake, and the girl became a hen. The snake stealthily ate all the eggs, and then killed the hen. The cycle went over and over again until the girl became a black cat and the wife became her owner. They lived happily in poverty, until a shaman visited and told the wife the cat was the reason of her poverty and bad lucks. The wife didn't believe it, but one day, the cat jumps over her husband, and the next day he died in an accident at work. It was pure coincidence, but the wife recalled the shaman's words and decided to kill the cat. When the knife stabbed, the cat remembered its previous lives, the hatred returned as it refused to die. Due to the extreme vain and anger, the cat acquired the power of youkai and later came back, killed the wife. After that, by defying nature, the black cat turned into a complete youkai and hunt the reincarnations of the wife life after life. Eventually, it forgot the real reason and started to enjoy blood, it then kills everything it doesn't like, and joined in the royal battle of youkai in various wars.

As every other tailed youkai, the weakness of them is the tail, cut it and you can exorcise it. However, many wars proved that black cat youkai is one of the stronger youkai. The nature of the cats makes them a good hunter, a flexible fighter and a tactical survivor. It doesn't have a specific weakness, as it doesn't have immortality trait. So it can be killed by sheer force. Black cat youkai have bad relationship with mouse, horse, rooster. Surprisingly they don't have much quarrel with dog youkai, if unnecessary, the two will just ignore each others.

These guys are reckless, and don't like obeying orders. They don't make friends tho it will stay loyal to someone they've known a long time and have good relationship with, apart from that, they don't care. Even if you're their master's best friend, taunt them and they'll bite your head off when their master isn't looking.

I wonder how much of them is Chen?
Quote
But do you allow requests? You said your aunt told many ghost stories. Are there stories that remind you of Mima?
Well this topic is to share, so if I know of it I'll tell you :P But I have to say I have little knowledge about Western myths.

Mima looks like a normal vengeful ghost to me, but there are a loads of story on them so maybe I can find one "Mima" in there. I suggest you look on the stories of Onryo.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2011, 04:33:24 PM by Forte Blackadder »

Re: Myths
« Reply #31 on: April 18, 2011, 05:20:39 PM »
Wow, Chen is badass. I'll have to remember that, if I ever should decide to write a Chen story. And if Ran managed to gain Chen's loyalty, that makes her incredibly badass too.

Wait, I thought that stories of onryou would be eastern myths and not western?

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Re: Myths
« Reply #32 on: April 18, 2011, 05:27:04 PM »
Onryo is referring to vengeful ghosts. They are just a name and can be called different in different cultures, but in the end they're all the same thing.

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Re: Myths
« Reply #33 on: April 19, 2011, 01:23:05 AM »
Dragons.

I suppose everyone already knew about dragons. They are the divine creature, as high as Gods, ultimately powerful and have their own legends all over the world. Some people said dragons win, hands down, no discussion. Do they? Perhaps they do. Or do they?

Dragon is a race, and of course like any race, they have individuals. The Golden Dragon who lives in the sky, is the symbol of royalty in China. It has absolute zero power except looking cool. Youkai dragons, who inhabited in various places in Asia, had their own stories, worshipers and enemies. The most renown youkai dragons were the four sea dragon lords who controlled the West, North, South, East seas of China. Their ability is manipulating winds, thunder and rains. They have their own palace in the sea, a huge family with generations to seize the throne. They're loyal to Heaven King and have duty of taking care of raining seasons. The ranking of dragons goes as their "home":
Well < Lake < Cave < River < Mountain < Sea < Sky

The youkai dragons are distinctly stronger than other youkai, however their growth rate is extremely slow and they have a strict connection with fate: once they're born, they won't be able to change their rank. A well dragon will always stay in a well, no matter how much it trains, it will never be as strong as the lake dragon. Because of this dragons didn't bother participating in any youkai war, as they don't see a point in training and ambition. There are various dragons inhabited on the ground like caves, forest and mountain, but they had to face too many enemy that eventually got killed. The known youkai that defeated such dragons were tiger, eagle, dog, nine-tails fox and spider. Some Oni in fact, won in a deal with mountain dragons. However, when it comes to "air" and "water", dragons are almost invincible.

Born with divine body, dragons were the target of many hunters, one of them was human ourselves. Dragon's skin is one of the best defensive material, dragon's claws and fangs can make super weapons, dragon's blood grants a superhuman body and dragon's heart is one shortcut to be celestial. Because of this, around the time of the Qin dynasty, the dragon race was told to be extinct. However, the result wasn't like the rumors. All those dragon's stuffs were just junk. The youkai and human realized the dragon race is just a race with hardened scale, strong muscle and ability to control elements. The number of real dragons who are "ultimate" can be counted with your fingers:

- The Giant Dragon that was so huge that when it flew, the Sun was nowhere to be seen, darkness covered Earth and the air pressure destroyed everything: Human, Gods and youkai first time joined force to take it down. The dragon's body later decayed and became a country. (some said it became Japan or Vietnam, due to the shape of these countries on the map)
- The Divine Green Dragon that won 5th place in the Zodiac Race: alongside with its friends (12 zodiac animals) in the war against 12 stars, it died in a 1-on-8 battle.
- The Ocean Blue Dragon: leader of the Four Divine Beasts, Lord of the East. This dragon is the strongest dragon in all Asia, also the representative of Asian dragons.
- The Golden Dragon: the symbol of true kings, said to be the closest being to Heaven King, doesn't have any offensive power but untouchable.

Dragon isn't ultimate. They are beings that follow the nature rules quite strictly: each dragon is born with an element which become its strength and weakness forever. The rate for elements of dragon are: Water > Wind > Thunder > Earth > Fire > Wood > Metal. By using the opposite element, even human can defeat a dragon. Dragon also don't have the ability of resurrection. It has massive defense, but when killed, it dies. Because of this one of dragon's most hated rivals is phoenix.

A dragon power may flow in a youkai or human depends on their date of birth (12 zodiacs) and the type of element depends of the time they were born (5 elements). Of course, this applies to all 12 animals but dragon type has a distinct aura of dominance. The youkai/human with dragon power usually have great ambition and work alone. They're also hard to beat but once beaten, they give up very easily. In Chinese/Japanese myths, the carps which was born with dragon power can swim upstream and evolve to a dragon. At that stage, its base power will decide if it's a well dragon or a sky dragon. Most of them became weak dragons though.

Some (mythical) information about dragons:
- They once had a large population, but decreased greatly.
- The aggressive dragons were the ones that got killed first.
- They go alone and die alone. No party, no buffer, no healer. They don't even buy HP pots. Like a boss.
- Their intelligence is above average youkai, but not really impressive. Only seek advice from an old dragon who had enough experience to tell you not to stand up with a wooden stick and walk really slowly towards the gunners.
- A river Dragon is as strong as a Land God, about a native god with faith from 300 people.

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Re: Myths
« Reply #34 on: April 19, 2011, 01:41:19 AM »
I always look forward to your posts. They are so darn informative.  :getdown:

I wonder if this rules Meiling out as a dragon, though.  :derp:
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Re: Myths
« Reply #35 on: April 19, 2011, 01:59:24 AM »
I always look forward to your posts. They are so darn informative.  :getdown:

I wonder if this rules Meiling out as a dragon, though.  :derp:
Well, he did say this:
Quote
A dragon power may flow in a youkai or human depends on their date of birth (12 zodiacs) and the type of element depends of the time they were born (5 elements).
I suppose that would be the most likely explanation for Meiling, anyway.

And the dragon that appeared at the creation of Gensokyo definitely seems to be based off of the Giant Dragon.

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Re: Myths
« Reply #36 on: April 19, 2011, 05:12:11 AM »
I'm more inclined to believe it's the Golden Dragon, given how the Celestials generally report to the very same dragon that aided in Gensokyo's creation.
And since the Golden Dragon is an equal to the Heaven King, that would make sense.

The only other one would likely be the Ocean Blue Dragon, since it's said it resides in a palace deep under the sea. And Iku is an Oarfish Youkai, and messenger of the Dragon Palace.
Where are Oarfish found? Deep under the sea.
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Re: Myths
« Reply #37 on: April 19, 2011, 09:50:05 AM »
Quote
I'm more inclined to believe it's the Golden Dragon, given how the Celestials generally report to the very same dragon that aided in Gensokyo's creation.
And since the Golden Dragon is an equal to the Heaven King, that would make sense.
Perhaps, but the Golden Dragon only appear when true king was born or give him advices, apart from that it does absolutely nothing. We don't even know where it lives, in various myths involving coming to Heaven, it didn't appear at all. The Golden Dragon is just a symbol.
However, Ly Cong Uan, the King of ancient Vietnam, built the capital on the land when he saw a golden dragon flew from there to the sky. So it fits quite perfectly with Gensokyo's myth (the dragon god was seen only once when Gensokyo is created). Then it's quite sad because the dragon should never involve in Gensokyo's activity anymore. Unless a "true king" is born, which is impossible because there are only girls ;)

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Re: Myths
« Reply #38 on: April 19, 2011, 11:08:31 AM »
Quote
They go alone and die alone. No party, no buffer, no healer. They don't even buy HP pots. Like a boss.

This made me giggle.

Awesome and informative stuff.

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Re: Myths
« Reply #39 on: April 19, 2011, 05:24:16 PM »
Human Eater youkai.

Well I know this is a stupid name, because most youkai eat human or anything have meat. But this one is quite unique. The legend spreads throughout Asia, from Japan to Malaysia with many names I don't know which should I use. So I'll use the Vietnamese one: ? ma lai. (pronounce: O-mah-lie). Usually a woman or a little girl, who has perfect normal appearance and live together with us all day. However when night falls, her neck tears off and the intestines fly out with the head. This youkai only active at night and have a power of light-twisting or illusion, which makes the victim feel the surrounding becomes darker. ? ma lai doesn't eat human normally like others, they use their entrails to bind the prey and give it a french kiss. I mean, her tongue digs in your throat until it reaches your intestines, roll them up and eat them all. This creature is one of the cruelest youkai in the history, just imagine the feeling of your heart, lungs, kidneys and so on getting pulled up to your throat and a beautiful head eating them right from your mouth. After that, they leave the body and go back.

There are several stories on this youkai, but all of them had the same background: a girl made a pact to evil for beauty. The rest is pretty much varied.

This youkai is originally from the forest, or mountain, so they have eaten all the herbs thus make it immune to ordinary exorcising methods (holy water, poison) and because it has connection with the tribes which worship nature, religious methods don't work either. They are also very hard to avoid because when it's not active, it's the perfectly normal person. It even gets married, lives a good life, goes to school and drinks your beer. There was a story, a shaman whose son was in love with the most beautiful girl in the village, realised her was an ? ma lai. He tried to tell his son, but the guy refused to believe. The only way to suspect was her neck had a distinct fold. But that alone wasn't enough. One night, the son asked the girl to a walk, which ends on her bed. The morning after, the shaman cried with his son's empty corpse in his arm. The girl disappeared, of course.

There is almost no way to avoid getting killed by this youkai, even if you locked the door and never meet her, she can indirectly eat your entrails if she eats your excrement. However, a flying head with entrails attaching along, this youkai isn't that hard to beat. Sometimes, the entrails got stuck and tore when it flies pass trees. Cutting off the entrails and burn them is the best method to kill it. However this youkai is very aggressive, i can stay active for a day even after the entrails cut off. Other method is to find the body and turn it upside down. With this method, when the head returns it won't be able to use the body, thus eventually die.

? ma lai have similarities with vampires, but they don't have much power, actually they're freaking weak. Their strength is the horror when they appear, covers you in a semi-darkness and tie you up with its entrails (she smells really really bad too). I don't know about you guys but I, as a man who did many research on demons and such, will wet myself if I see it approaches me. They are more or less related to the "bloody girl who's looking at you outside the window", because their most favourite place to hide to wait until you sleep is on your roof. This youkai has nothing to do with the moon, and if your room starts to get darker even with the light on, you better be prepared for some tentacles action.

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Re: Myths
« Reply #40 on: April 19, 2011, 05:31:40 PM »
? ma lai doesn't eat human normally like others, they use their entrails to bind the prey and give it a french kiss. I mean, her tongue digs in your throat until it reaches your intestines, roll them up and eat them all.

Ok, that sent shivers down my spine. *shudder*

I really shouldn't imagine what such gory stuff would be like to presence.
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Re: Myths
« Reply #41 on: April 19, 2011, 05:37:21 PM »
Oh, I remember hearing about these. I learned about them under the Malaysian name, Penanggalan.

I wonder what a Touhou version of one of those would be like. :3
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Re: Myths
« Reply #42 on: April 19, 2011, 05:54:33 PM »
However when night falls, her neck tears off and the intestines fly out with the head.

Sounds kind of like the Manananggal of Filipino mythology (her torso detaches, she grows wings, etc.)

Thread still overflowing with awsm, BTW.


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Re: Myths
« Reply #43 on: April 20, 2011, 01:18:56 AM »
I often wondered if Kokkuri-San's Contract (Ran's survival card, apparently named after the Ouija spirit) was intended to spell out anything or communicate a message to the player that those in the know would get.

Western myths and legends vary wildly from country to country and are more commonly forgotten since storytelling traditions are dying out a bit. But, for a Scot like me, you know to watch out for Selkies and Kelpies, even if they are just kappas on holiday. ^^
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Re: Myths
« Reply #44 on: April 20, 2011, 06:30:12 AM »
Gold Mine Thread!
Many thanks for sharing your knowledge with us!

Human Eater youkai.

Well I know this is a stupid name, because most youkai eat human or anything have meat. But this one is quite unique. The legend spreads throughout Asia, from Japan to Malaysia with many names I don't know which should I use. So I'll use the Vietnamese one: ? ma lai. (pronounce: O-mah-lie). Usually a woman or a little girl,

I read that this Youkai resulted because she broke an oath not to eat meat (was it for ever or a certain time frame? I don't remember...) right?
Poor woman, only vegetarians do that now a days...

When I heard about her neck I thought it related with the Japanese Rokurokkubi, and/or Maikubi, but the way she eats stuff was closer to the Japanese Youkai Nikusui (肉吸い = Flesh sucker)

Here's a description of the Flesh sucker story...
The Nikusui is said to appear as a beutiful woman of around 18 or 19 years of age.
When travelers come across her during the night she says to them "Can I borrow your lantern?"
If you don't act fast, the Nikusui takes away the traveller's lantern, which surrounds both the traveler and the Youkai in the darkness.
In the darkness without the lantern, the Nikusui is said to suck the flesh out of the traveller.
There's a few versions of the myth, and although I don't know if there's a version where she kisses you, but she's said to either suck flesh from where she bites you, or she can suck flesh from anywhere you make contact with her body.

According to myths, the Nikusui is weak against fire and you can defend yourself by smashing the lantern in to her before it gets taken, or by having some other sort of fire ready to sick at her.
In a certain myth, she gets defeated by a gun with a special bullet inscribed with the word "Namu ami dabutsu", and her true form was a pile of bones.

Apparently, the bones seeked for flesh to fill its self with and thus turned in to the Youkai Nikusui.



If any Youkai, the fact that this one prays only in the dark sort of reminds me of Rumia... although I'm guessing Rumia would be interested in every ounce of meat in your body, rather than just the organs or the flesh.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2011, 06:31:59 AM by Sabino »

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Re: Myths
« Reply #45 on: April 20, 2011, 08:56:11 AM »
Rumia is likely to be based off that type of youkai......

Also, this is a very good thread, I always am interested in Asian myths but I can't really find much sites on the internet about it....

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Re: Myths
« Reply #46 on: April 20, 2011, 09:48:01 AM »
I often wondered if Kokkuri-San's Contract (Ran's survival card, apparently named after the Ouija spirit) was intended to spell out anything or communicate a message to the player that those in the know would get.

Someone should do an overlay of that card's motion pattern on a Quija Board.
Either the Western or Eastern model should work, but I'm more inclined to believe it would be the Eastern one.
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Re: Myths
« Reply #47 on: April 20, 2011, 01:14:09 PM »
Quote
I read that this Youkai resulted because she broke an oath not to eat meat (was it for ever or a certain time frame? I don't remember...) right?
Yes, there is Malay version of her like this, it's 40 days.

Today I'll dig deeper in the Four Beasts. Many know that they're the four divine lords that territorise four directions East, South, North, West. But little know about how they come to and why. In ancient time, the Chinese divided the sky into 4 according to four directions. Each direction has 7 stars and they look like a beast: dragon, bird, tiger, turtle. There are total of 28 stars and on the Royal Road. (二十八宿) These stars from then are used vastly and commonly in every kind of fortune-telling, astronomy, advise,... These 28 stars were written so they make a circle (360 degrees) and every 30 degrees then represents a zodiac, each zodiac represents 2 hours in a day, 1 month in a year and 1 year in every 12 years, thus created the closed cycle of life. Each 90 degrees then make a divine beasts according to the direction, represent an element . However, there is five elements, but the theory isn't flawed, in the middle of the circle stands the "center" thus has the beast of guardian and expansion: unicorn (kirin). This beast isn't included in the four beast as there is no such direction as "Center", it represents the human who use the theory at the moment, the center from then became the symbol of perfection and nothingness.

Chinese myth explained the universe like this: (the names were changed to fit the definitions in English, the original words are far more badass)

The Void created the Big Bang
The Big Band created Yin Yang
Yin Yang created the Four Beasts
Four Beasts created Ba Gua
Ba Gua created Unlimited


The Four Beasts also are the view of ancient Chinese to the universe: Sun, Moon, Stable Stars and Moving Stars

The Blue Dragon: Lord of the East, Wood Element. It is made by these 7 stars: Crocodile (Spica), Dragon (Virgo), Bat (Libra), Rabbit (Libra), Fox (Antares), Tiger (Scorpius), Leopard (Sagittarius). Infidel, weird and unpredictable, The Blue Dragon is known for its vast knowledge and superior powers. It is the strongest of all dragons, born in the sky. His famous power is manipulating water and wind, with the type of Wood, these powers act as its supporters and healers. When it rains, the Blue Dragon is invincible. It represents the King.
Traits:
- Dawn
- Begin of Yang
- Spring

The Red Phoenix: Lord of the South, Fire Element. It is made by: Stray Dog (Gemini), Goat (Cancer), Java mouse-deer (Hydra), Horse (Alphard), Deer (Crater), Snake (Corvus), Worm (Corvus). Prideful, calm and patient. The Red Phoenix is immortal, revive from its own ashes and represents the Queen. It has connection with the Dragon, sometimes good, sometimes bad, sometimes go for each other's life for its own benefit. Red Phoenix lives in the highest mountain in the farthest sea, unreachable for commoners. It uses its own power: Fire, without any other type. Has absolute confidence and burn everything on its way to cosmic dust.
Traits:
- Midday
- Full of Yang
- Summer

The White Tiger: Lord of the West, Metal Element. It is made by: Wolf (Pegasus), House Dog (Aries), Pheasant (Aries), Rooster (Pleiades), Crow (Taurus), Monkey (Orion), Gibbon (Orion). Protective, Carefree and Open Minded. The White Tiger is the god of its world, it do anything it can on a whim. Although random, but White Tiger is predictable. It stays in the deepest forest where its treasures are kept. White Tiger understand the new, but cannot change easily. As the King of animal, it looks down on other species and see nothing worthy but food. However, it can't fly and have to look up to the Red Phoenix and Blue Dragon. White Tiger represent human.
Traits:
- Sunset
- Begin of Yin
- Autumn


The Black Turtle: Lord of the North, Water Element. It is made by: Crab (Sagittarius), Bull (Capricornus), Porcupine (Aquarius), Mouse (Aquarius), Swift (Pegasus), Pig (Pegasus), Sheep (Algenib). Isolate, wild and wise. The Black Turtle is famous for knowing anything and everything. Also, it never stays in one place, but moving around all the time, thus gives the trait of freedom and a symbol of Hermit. Using its type as Water, Black Turtle sometimes seen using Wood power. A nature power with unlimited enhanced resource. Black Turtle loves quizzes and puzzles, to test if a creature worthy enough to talk to it.
Traits:
- Midnight
- Full of Yin
- Winter

The Golden Unicorn (Kirin): Lord of the Center, Earth Element. It does not have any star. It represents the Void, true third party point of view who never lean on any side. The Kirin stays at the middle of four beasts, keep the balance between them and the start point of anything and everything. It never moves, ever. The Kirin is the Observer, keep an eye on everything but never act, it understands everything has its place in time. One must die for another to grow. The cycle circles, the water flows, the wind blows and money are meant to be spent. It doesn't have emotion and despited by the world (Oh god why don't you help me blah blah). It has ultimate defense, indestructible however because of its role, nobody ever care to fight it because even if they do, it won't fight back at all. It'll just stand there looking at you with Nagato Yuki's eyes. (though it's the true leader of the Beasts)
Traits:
- Afternoon
- Balance of Yin and Yang
- Changing Season


In theory, the four beasts are equally strong, however in various fictional works the phoenix and dragon are placed higher than tiger and turtle. Among them, the phoenix is the most wanted beast with its blood that can grant immortality. In the Qin Dynasty, Qin Shi Huang wanted to rule China forever after unification and made his finest men to seek for the phoenix. The men found the nest, but was no match for the Divine Bird. One man luckily survived and drank a leak blood from the beast's leg. He became immortal and decided not to go back, but stayed in the wild to master himself. A thousand years passed and he became the strongest human on earth after endless fights with martial artists, youkai and even celestial. However, because he only drank a bit of Phoenix's blood, which granted immortality but didn't help him avoid aging. One day he looked at the mirror and scared, because of it, he created the most powerful clan in order to hunt the Ocean Dragon, whose heart he believe that can grant him true immortality. However, the dragon was much better at fighting than the phoenix, the whole clan was wiped out and the man got swallowed. Inside the beast's stomach, his half-assed immortality couldn't help him from melting. From then, nobody had seen the Beasts anywhere anymore.

Re: Myths
« Reply #48 on: April 20, 2011, 02:19:35 PM »
Whoa. =o Wait, the center beast is a Kirin? I thought it was, uh... This:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huang_Long_%28Four_Symbols%29

That said, this is amazing. Keep up the amazingly amazing work.

Oh, and one more request? I'd like to know if any myths come to mind when you think of Yuuka.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2011, 02:21:24 PM by Silverkun »

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Re: Myths
« Reply #49 on: April 20, 2011, 03:19:36 PM »
The beast's name in the center is very hard to translate properly into English. As Kirin means Unicorn, but it isn't a horned horse. Also there are another 4 divine beasts Dragon, Kirin, Phoenix, Turtle which are just divine beasts. They have connections with the beauties of the world: Wind, Flower, Snow, Moon and appeared more in art than myths. However, the Kirin is often described similar to a lion and chose to be the fifth beasts to avoid repeat. (already have dragon for East)
This Center Beast isn't fixed, even in the wiki you can see:
Quote
In East Asian culture, there is sometimes a fifth Guardian Beast of the Si Xiang.
So it's up to you to believe which is sitting in the center.
Quote
Oh, and one more request? I'd like to know if any myths come to mind when you think of Yuuka.
There is, but no specific name, only a mixed legend and it's freaking long:

From the very dawn of time, youkai was born alongside human. And just like human, there was war to have the true leader of all youkai. Because the youkai are so varied, they often built up small clan or family which have their own relative as members. At the first war, the Oni clan stood out as the most powerful force, they created their own league with the Elite Four (四大王) who acted as the leaders of all Oni and the most fearsome warriors there was. Because they were too strong, the Oni defeated almost everyone and made some youkai clan its vassal (Tengu, Kappa). However, the Tengu was not "enslaved", they chose to support the Oni. After the first war, the Oni King was the leader of all demon on Earth.

The brute of the Oni eventually angered everyone else, human found out their weaknesses and started to chase them away (In Japanese myth, it was beans, in Vietnamese myth, human outwitted the Oni and left them no land to live, thus the Oni had to move to underground). The Earth was once again no-ruler. The Second war started for the soul of a deceased god, which believed to grant absolute powers. This war was the worst war in the Youkai history, ended up with a weakling, Nurarihyon, stole the soul with its stealth ability. The Nurarihyon then gained a huge power to become the leader of the Youkai. This was also a peaceful period on Earth.

Hundred years after, a fox youkai trained itself to become a golden kyuubi. This youkai challenged Nurarihyon and won, thus started the third war which involved mostly beasts. The only youkai that said to be strong enough to kill Kyuubi was Yamato no Orochi, which sadly got killed by the hands of Susanoo already. The realm of Kyuubi lasted for 300 years, and ended as Kyuubi suddenly disappeared. (Some said it was sealed, some said Buddha tamed it)

The next generation had a stoned monkey, who learnt 72 magics from a Buddha. The monkey then destroyed the Sea Palace, took the Golden Ruler for its weapon and invaded Hell. It even defeated the Yama and Shinigami, rewrote the Book of Fate and erased its own name from there, so it can't be killed. Later on, it gathered all youkai to invade Heaven. As the result, it was defeated by Grand Buddha and later became buddha with the name Sun Wukong.

After Wukong legend, the youkai realised the soul of any creature is good, and rushed to kill. Human's soul wasn't enough, so they started killing stronger youkai and eat them. The most outstanding youkai a this time was a spider. After hundred of years, it'd eaten so many youkai and human that nobody dared to oppose it. Thus made it the 5th Youkai Leader. This spider died from too much power its body couldn't contain hundreds years later.

After 5 generations, the Earth consumed five elements of life: Oni King, the Ground type demon that built the basics of Youkai Empire. Nurarihyon, the Water type youkai that knew what to do to achieve success. Kyuubi, the Fire type beasts that had absolute confidence in itself. Sun Wukong, the Metal type youkai that never change its belief, and Supreme Spider, the Wood type youkai that'll do everything to be the best. All these elements combined to a jewel, stayed in the ground for exactly one year, got the power of every weather, every season, every sin and deed, bloomed into a flower, the most beautiful thing on Earth. This flower has the power of every youkai and stronger. Though its appearance is a flower, this youkai's real identity is nature itself. There is no way to defeat it unless you destroy the world, it stood out from the food chain, nobody even God can defeat it without harming all Hell, Earth and Heaven. Fortunately, this flower don't give a damn about power and reputation, it spends all year in the most beautiful place in the world, dancing with the Wind, singing with the Snow and watching the Moon.

Source: various youkai war stories, Journey to the West - After -, various youkai clans stories.

Of course, this flower isn't a leader of youkai, as the whole youkai empire collapsed after the Supreme Spider era. Human got a better of them and youkai was forced to hide away. But I'm quite sure hundred years later, my waifu, Yukari, appeared and became the 6th leader that foolishly invade the Moon.

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Re: Myths
« Reply #50 on: April 20, 2011, 04:16:11 PM »
All I saw in this particular explanation was Inuyasha.  :derp:

Especially the Supreme Spider (Naraku) and the jewel formed from the four elements (the Shikon Jewel).

But if that flower is Yuuka, then she's even more of a badass than I thought she was.
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Re: Myths
« Reply #51 on: April 20, 2011, 04:19:43 PM »
Inuyasha isn't original ;) As you can find Nurarihyon from Nurarihyon no Mago or Gantz, and the Kyuubi from Naruto and Orochi from King of Fighters.

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Re: Myths
« Reply #52 on: April 20, 2011, 04:24:01 PM »
Yeah, I know. A lot of manga takes from old japanese legends. It's just that the one that this reminded me the most was Inuyasha. XP
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Re: Myths
« Reply #53 on: April 20, 2011, 04:26:22 PM »
Actually Inuyasha is a good manga to research youkai in the Sengoku era. When they actually had interact and influence with human.

Re: Myths
« Reply #54 on: April 20, 2011, 04:37:33 PM »
....I swear, the stories in this topic are some of the best I have ever heard. I love this topic so much. I tell my touhoufag friends on another forum about your stories, and they love reading them too.

...Hm, but according to that story, the birth of youkai was much longer ago than I first thought. According to Kaguya, the moon was the reason that youkai first began to exist on earth, they did this "to regulate the earth's filthiness." I thought to myself that I would probably put the timeline for that at about 1300 years ago. Perhaps, I thought, Eirin did it before she left the moon and her position as leader of the lunar emissaries. But this is not the case, in fact according to what you say I would put it at around the very start of the lunar civilization. Maybe Tsukuyomi did this when he left the earth behind.

Can't wait to hear more stories! See, I never knew much of anything about any eastern mythology before getting into Touhou, and now I cannot get enough of it. I don't have any stories to share in this topic, unfortunately, but... This Sun Wukong guy, eh kicks the asses of everyone in both hell and heaven except for the Grand Buddha himself, and does not afraid of anything. And he's just 1/5 of this flower.

Hot damn, Yuuka. That's about all I got to say. She must be even greater than Amenominakanushi, the first Shinto kami who came into being before anything else and can surely create worlds with the smallest effort of will.

But hey, do any stories come to mind when you think of Gengetsu and Mugetsu? Sorry for so many requests.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2011, 04:40:18 PM by Silverkun »

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Re: Myths
« Reply #55 on: April 20, 2011, 05:15:53 PM »
Youkai was born ever since human was born. They represent what human's afraid of: greed, gluttony, gore, lies,... The Moon was believed to be created at the same time with the Sun (the Sun god and the Moon goddess are siblings and husband-wife) I say the youkai history was much longer than 1300 years.

However, in some culture, youkai was once a race of magical animals that lived happily with human. But one day, found themselves superior, they started asking the human to serve them. One tale said one day, a human lied and tricked a youkai to do his work without repaying, thus started the hatred. This legend started before human had any king or royalty.

Kaguya legend started in the 10th century (1000 years ago) when the first youkai - Oni, appeared in Vietnam and China roughly 4000 years ago. Sun Wukong was born about 600 years before Journey to the West (100 years of training and 500 years under the Five Elemental Mountain), and the journey took place at the 6th century. So I don't think Kaguya has anything to do with youkai, also before she was born, the Moon was there for a long time (Eirin is believed to be born on the Moon and has the age of 6 digits)

Quote
But hey, do any stories come to mind when you think of Gengetsu and Mugetsu? Sorry for so many requests.
Sadly no, mostly because their info isn't much, like unknown unknown, they're demon twins live somewhere unknown...
Quote
Hot damn, Yuuka. That's about all I got to say. She must be even greater than Amenominakanushi
Actually, I don't think so. Amenominakanushi is one of the Zōka Sanshin (Three Gods of Creation). If you let me, I'd like to say the Chinese had the very same God: Yuanshi Tianzun, one of the Sānqīng (Three Pure Gods) . Anyone in this group is as powerful as Grand Buddha, Sun Wukong had no way to touch their hair. The flower I mentioned only had the power of Wukong when he was still Monkey King, not the time he became Buddha. The flower itself is very strong, maybe the strongest, but can't compare to the True Gods, who can destroy its base (the nature). Let's say the flower is an Ultimate One, like Type Mercury other in TypeMoon.

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Re: Myths
« Reply #56 on: April 20, 2011, 05:28:33 PM »
I've been wondering about Mt. Ooe. Both Suika and Yuugi have spellcards that refer to this place. What exactly happened there?
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Re: Myths
« Reply #57 on: April 20, 2011, 05:38:35 PM »
Mt.Ooe is famous for being the "territory" of Oni. The leader was Shutendoji, who took maiden to the mountain to have fun and kill them, mix their blood in his sake for better taste.
Maybe Suika and Yuugi were stationed there?

Re: Myths
« Reply #58 on: April 20, 2011, 05:50:00 PM »
Ah, so the first youkai came into being 4000 years ago. That's really something. But you said youkai have existed as long as humans have. Then would it be the case that humans have only existed in eastern mythology for 4000 years?

Wait, I don't think Eirin was born on the moon. It says in Cage in Lunatic Runagate (chapter 3, I think) that Eirin was one of the few people that Tsukuyomi took with him when he went to go found the Lunar Capital. That was a time when the only life (apart from gods) was in the oceans and fought for survival (which was the source of the impurity). Meaning that it's almost certain that Eirin is a goddess, and a very old one. She was the most trusted friend of Tsukuyomi, he would always come to her for advice because she has always been absolutely brilliant. Combine that with the references to Omoikane, and you see... Isn't it pretty likely that she is Omoikane herself?

I see, well I don't know very much about Chinese gods, nor about TypeMoon stuff, but am I correct in saying that the only ones the flower youkai would be unable to beat are any member of the Zōka Sanshin as well as the Grand Buddha?

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Re: Myths
« Reply #59 on: April 20, 2011, 07:55:54 PM »
The first record of youkai and oni was before any country was built, where "everyone lived happily together". I don't know the exact time, so 4k years is just a guess.
About Eirin, let's stick on CiLR, since it's official.

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am I correct in saying that the only ones the flower youkai would be unable to beat are any member of the Zōka Sanshin as well as the Grand Buddha?
Any being that capable to destroy the whole world in an instant is stronger than that flower. Also there was the Infidel Buddha (無天佛祖) who defeated Grand Buddha, captured all the Buddhas, Gods, Celestial, Yama and ruled all three worlds.