Darker than Black Mafia (Game Over Scum win)

[capt. h]

EDIT: sorry, broken link. Here's post 207.

Only Scum would try to claim scumteams without any flips.
Seriously, Bardiche, stop being scum.

The reason my vote is still on UK is because of her case against me. It is not an OMGUS vote. I am voting scum for pushing bad cases. I am voting scum for pushing cases they themselves admit they don't even believe in. I thought I broke it down in my last post, but I guess it didn't work, so let's try again.

"So, on the one hand, I know that bad cases aren't scummy but..."
Okay, here, UK is saying she believes that the case she's about to pull on me is completely void.

"last time Zak made a bad case against me, he was scum."
Here, She completely backtracks her statement, on the assessment that because I did one thing one time when I was scum, that means that I'm theoretically always scum every time I do something that could even be called voting her for a "Bad" reason.

"Not to mention his complete failure to account for reality."
This is vague as hell, and it was added to make her case on me seem more valid than "What you're doing is not scum, but I'm going to vote you for it anyway."

If it was just her opinion post taken into account, I would have stepped off to look in other directions, but I can't forgive a case that's this bad. I've been impartial, unbiased, and even somewhat supportive of cases on me before when I realized they had good points, but this case is literally just UK trying to find a reason to start a counterbandwagon, and failing to find one at that.
This isn't how meta works. I do one thing once, and suddenly, every time I do something like it, I'm always going to be scum? What exactly makes you think it's not because I think your actions and cases are scummy? In fact, what makes other people think it's not because you might be scum?

...

*sigh*

Of course, with post 188, my original case on UK has completely been conceded, and logic is even going so far as to suggest she's town. This is highly frustrating, since all of my hate now has no place to go, and the best I could do to blow it off now is just calling her an idiot, which isn't useful at all to town, nor my own self-esteem. This absolutely kills my motivation, but whatever.

##Unvote: Uncertain Kitten

Cut: Man, I really don't feel like rereading, and even if I do, it feels like people aren't even voting me for things I did this game. UK's voted me for being scum last game, Bardiche and a few others are voting me for being lurkerscum last game. You guys are making real good cases for me not to play anymore. Basically, the only person who I would even let slide for my wagon is Serpentarius.

[UncertainJakutten]

So, anyway, the main problem is not Zak's (erroneous) case on me, but the fact that he absolutely refused to give opinions on anyone not UK. That's not a pro town thing. Add to that his case isn't really that well researched, and capt. h. is essentially making things up. This is nothing new though.

[UncertainJakutten]

EBWOP: Of course, because the general idea was the lack of trying and that was explained by Zak frustration, I'm not as hot on that wagon anymore.

[Shadoweh]

Helepolis: Besides falling for his charismatic smile you'll have to show me where I did this defending of Bard you keep bringing up. I'm positive that people are not taking into account that action time is getting cut directly from the day and treating it like we have 7 hours to take it easy in.

UK: That's a much more satisfying explanation of your reasoning. I will put to you my reasoning that Zak's case could be seen as a reprint of other people's motives, sounding better on the surface but really, isn't he just making a case on everyone and pursuing none of them?

[UncertainJakutten]

As I said, his most recent post without the vote should be scummy. But honestly, I can see where he's giving up. I think his best move would be to request replacement, honestly. But if he's not going to, I'm not going to remain merciful if he proceeds to not be helpful.

I just understand that fatigue with the game fits fairly perfectly with his actions.

[Pesco]

Voting
capt h(5): Schezo, rdj, NeoSerela, Yonowaaru, UncertainKitten (L-3)
Zakeri(5): Serp, Conqueror, Dormio, Bard, Shadoweh (L-3)
Helepolis(1): Hanged Hourai
UncertainKitten(1): capt h
Bardiche(1): Helepolis

Not voting
Zakeri

14 alive, 8 votes required for a lynch
~6 hours remain. Once the hammer vote is down, no more voting or unvoting will be counted.

[capt. h]

As I said, his most recent post without the vote should be scummy. But honestly, I can see where he's giving up. I think his best move would be to request replacement, honestly. But if he's not going to, I'm not going to remain merciful if he proceeds to not be helpful.

I just understand that fatigue with the game fits fairly perfectly with his actions.

Is fatigue a town quality? I mean, what's the difference between defeated town and defeated scum, and what about Zak's actions make you think he's defeated town as opposed to defeated scum? I ask mostly out of inexperience, but you were driving a case against him hard before he gave up.

I still think he's town, but I'd like to know why you changed your mind.

[Bardiche]

Shadoweh ilu so much, can I touch you?

[capt. h]

Shadoweh ilu so much, can I touch you?

Yes, I understand that you and bardiche are just having a ball, claiming five different rolepowers each, and attempting to lynch people for reasons that happened in other games, but if you are town, both of you STOP THIS NOW. I mean seriously. You are both actively getting in the way of people being able to read and understand you, and townies have no reason to do this. If you are town, STOP TRYING TO MISLEAD OTHER TOWNIES. I can't understand a damn thing about your intentions, and no one else can either judging from the fact that Capt H (And I) couldn't even find bard's actual case on me despite putting it right next to the vote. I literally though Bardiche was voting for me without even taking into account my play for this game. Seriously, I'd be willing to lynch both of you at this juncture even if I got cop investigations stating you were both town.

God damn, I though I spent all day cooling down over this, but every time I just look at Bardiche, Shadoweh, or UK, something just stirs up inside me. Something that's way bigger than actually catching scum. I am not having fun here, and I seriously wish I could even have the guts to just say I want to quit.

Basically Bard, please shut up.

[Bardiche]

Basically capt h, no.

[UncertainJakutten]

@capt. h.: A fair point. There's a sense of half assed trying in his latest post. Most of his observations don't really benefit scum, I feel. They feel pro active, but the lack of vote was an attempt to bait us because he gave up. It's hard to explain, it's just...I sense really irritated town from this. It's sort've how I felt like with you, except I try not to give up when I'm irritated.

[Shadoweh]

Bard: Shh, what happens behind closed doors stays behind them. But sure why not. What do you think of Zak's post and is it enough to convince you to get back on capt.h?

UK: Same question as above but reversed, what do you think of capt.h's answers and are they good enough to switch?

I feel like I've regressed into mid-day UK. I'm happy to lynch either one of you with how helpful your votes are. THE OTHER ONE IS MORE LIKELY TO BE SCUM THEN YOU ARE IF YOU ARE TOWN. CAN YOU AT LEAST GIVE SOME 'NOT ME' VOTES?

[capt. h]

@capt. h.: A fair point. There's a sense of half assed trying in his latest post. Most of his observations don't really benefit scum, I feel. They feel pro active, but the lack of vote was an attempt to bait us because he gave up. It's hard to explain, it's just...I sense really irritated town from this. It's sort've how I felt like with you, except I try not to give up when I'm irritated.

I'd like to point out that scum probably wouldn't need to make any observations that benefit scum in thread. Usually scum have a quick topic where they can make all their observations. In fact, I usually use actions that make players look bad unnecessarily as evidence in their defense.

[Helepolis]

you'll have to show me where I did this defending of Bard you keep bringing up.

#129 You lecture Rdj regarding his vote on Bard. Advise him to find a "good case" and "stick with it".

What kind of sparked my curiosity while I just read back to Rdj's reply in #124. Rdj showed panic, same some strange things and then unvotes. Rdj later on claims he has some kind of case, mainly Capt H's  vote hop and aggression on me. Interesting, we just read Zakeri's explanation on Capt h's behaviour.

Thus successfully saving Bardiche. At that time, that early in game, there was no clearance Bardiche was clean however you acted as if Bardiche was clean. I call it defence.

Untill now, Rdj has not changed his vote, he is sticking purely to your "advise" Even after so many things have been discussed and seen. Rdj is not moving an inch. Schezo is doing the same either, but he hasn't replied yet today (Sunday). While Rdj did and his post contained nothing grounded except for the fact he is still voting because of Capt h, earlier actions. 

Up to this point, I am still okay with my vote being on capt. h

The summary you gave, did not added any new information of what was known.

Like I said, all Bardiche can hope for is the plan not failing as everything is left to the scums. He has suddenly backed off in silence or outputting "lulz" posts now, so he doesn't mess up the plan more. And now Shadoweh is asking why Bardiche isn't voting for Capt h.

I am curious what he has to say and what he will do.


Cut by 6 posts, but that doesn't change my initial post.

[UncertainJakutten]

Shadoweh, this is filler. You know my stance on capt. h.'s answers. I've elucidated them several times. I've ALSO stated my stance on Zak. He's more or less likely to be town at this point. Why would I switch to Zak town, except MAYBE to secure a lynch over no lynch?

@Capt. h.: What I mean is his observations benefit town, which is bad for scum. And significantly so. Notice that VERY FEW PEOPLE have been pressuring the lurkers. And I think he seriously has a point on some of them. But it'd be one hell of a thing to get people to magically switch to them, and I personally think you're scum so I'm happy with my vote. But I expect tomorrow we'll want to fall on those lurkers like mad.

[Bardiche]

Bard: Shh, what happens behind closed doors stays behind them. But sure why not. What do you think of Zak's post and is it enough to convince you to get back on capt.h?

Zakeri's post reads as defeatist. I'm not happy with a player who basically doesn't really want to play, but I can get on capt h just fine. His scumhunting has begun but it's Too Little Too Late.

##UNVOTE
##Vote: capt h

Also teehee~ Shadoweh-chan~

It's a dark, unsettling night. The rain outside beats against the windows as a man does his wife. Thunder crackles and roars. The world outside is frightening, and aggressive... but inside, there's only you and I. We're sitting on a couch. Your head is on my shoulder. Your beautiful eyes reflect your honesty and my love for you.

"Oh, Shadoweh," I mumble, running a finger through your lush hair. "What would I ever do without you?"

The room is lit up as thunder flashes outside. For a moment, I can see your brilliant face lit up as a sun. You're beautiful. And I love you. I move my hand up...

And...

##Touch: Shadoweh, stroking your warm, apple-like cheeks.

"I love you."

[capt. h]

Zakeri's post reads as defeatist. I'm not happy with a player who basically doesn't really want to play, but I can get on capt h just fine. His scumhunting has begun but it's Too Little Too Late.

##UNVOTE
##Vote: capt h

Also teehee~ Shadoweh-chan~

It's a dark, unsettling night. The rain outside beats against the windows as a man does his wife. Thunder crackles and roars. The world outside is frightening, and aggressive... but inside, there's only you and I. We're sitting on a couch. Your head is on my shoulder. Your beautiful eyes reflect your honesty and my love for you.

"Oh, Shadoweh," I mumble, running a finger through your lush hair. "What would I ever do without you?"

The room is lit up as thunder flashes outside. For a moment, I can see your brilliant face lit up as a sun. You're beautiful. And I love you. I move my hand up...

And...

##Touch: Shadoweh, stroking your warm, apple-like cheeks.

"I love you."

**** you, **** you, **** you, **** you, **** you.  :flamingv: :flamingv: :flamingv: :flamingv: :flamingv: :flamingv:


I don't care anymore. I'll vote Zak if only to secure the lynch, but I really, really want you dead to end the nonsense. It's annoying as hell, and it's breaking my ability to scum hunt. If you aren't scum, then I really hope you get NK'd. Or vigged. or commit sepuku. Or get mod killed. I don't care, whatever it takes to make this circus stop.

[Helepolis]

He is not going to get NK Capt h. As expected, he changed his vote again to exactly as I expected.

Soon Shadoweh will do the same making it 7 votes, with the excuse of securing a Lynch and hinted Bardiche. Now it comes to this: Either all scums are already voting for you or there is 1 AFK/Sleeping momentary.

The trap is already set, matter of time for the 8th to join. I am not going to be that person. There is one option left,  Serp , Conqueror, Dormio , Hanged Hourai, Zakeri and you to change voting to Bardiche to make it 8 vs 7. Though if that happens, If Bardiche is a townie, I will take full responsibility for that.

However, that is not going to happen because Shadoweh is pushing people to vote. So it will be a boring conclusion with no thrill.

[capt. h]

He is not going to get NK Capt h. As expected, he changed his vote again to exactly as I expected.

Soon Shadoweh will do the same making it 7 votes, with the excuse of securing a Lynch and hinted Bardiche. Now it comes to this: Either all scums are already voting for you or there is 1 AFK/Sleeping momentary.

The trap is already set, matter of time for the 8th to join. I am not going to be that person. There is one option left,  Serp , Conqueror, Dormio , Hanged Hourai, Zakeri and you to change voting to Bardiche to make it 8 vs 7. Though if that happens, If Bardiche is a townie, I will take full responsibility for that.

However, that is not going to happen because Shadoweh is pushing people to vote. So it will be a boring conclusion with no thrill.

You know what? Fine. If nothing else, killing one of them will end this charade. And Bard is the scummier of the two.

##Unvote
##Vote Bardiche

[UncertainJakutten]

So, I'm confused. I only see two votes on Bard including capt. h.'s

Are you seriously planning to make this a wagon out of nowhere?

[Shadoweh]

#129 You lecture Rdj regarding his vote on Bard. Advise him to find a "good case" and "stick with it".

This isn't true and you should be ashamed for this. rdj wasn't even voting Bard anymore when I made that post. My lecture had nothing to do with Bard and everything to do with encouraging rdj, who I saw as a new player confused with what to do, not to sit back unvoted and instead make a new case that he believes in.

UK, your post stating your opinion wasn't there the first time I tried to post that. I blame the internet. :fail: I can't say I'm satisfied with Zak's post even if I agree with the lurker sentiments. I seriously hope he plans to pick things up Day 2 if he makes it there. capt.h I still feel is close enough to scum to vote for. If you do get lynched as town I advise next game to play more like your later day self early on.

##Unvote
##Vote: capt.h

If I can't make rereads without turning red this is going to be a very long game for me.

[capt. h]

So, I'm confused. I only see two votes on Bard including capt. h.'s

Are you seriously planning to make this a wagon out of nowhere?

So, I'm confused. I only see two votes on Bard including capt. h.'s

Are you seriously planning to make this a wagon out of nowhere?

Sure, why not. Anything to make Bard stop it.

[Shadoweh]

Soon Shadoweh will do the same making it 7 votes, with the excuse of securing a Lynch and hinted Bardiche. Now it comes to this: Either all scums are already voting for you or there is 1 AFK/Sleeping momentary.

Oh mai gawd how did you guess that Shadoweh who is manicing around trying to secure a lynch voted with the excuse of securing a lynch! You must be psychic!

You are assigning scum motives to things town needs to do to win the game. Refusing to secure a lynch because someone you don't know the alignment of might be town is not a pro-town action.

[Serp]

Regarding "defending Helepolis in detail," this is why you should only quote complete sentences, folks.  I said I'd defend Helepolis if I still thought he was town and he was the main alternative to someone I wanted to lynch.  In such a situation, you need to defend the alternative lynch candidate in order to have a better chance of seeing your preferred target lynched.  That's basic townie strategy.

UK, you didn't answer my question in my post #201.  I basically asked what changed between your post #160, where you didn't like capt. h's methods but still seemed to be satisfied with his answers, and your post #187 where you said that capt. h wasn't answering your questions.  All in all, I don't really buy the sincerity of your case on capt. h.  Looks more like you're punishing him for playing horribly, and you're as conscious as anyone of how stupid it is of MotK town to punish newbie play with lynches.  It makes you look scummy, in my estimation.

I'm not really getting a town vibe from Zakeri's recent posts, either.  Seems like he's laying the appeal to emotion on a bit thick.  There are opinions there, but the lack of a vote so late in the day would be fitting for a scum in trouble who wants to obfuscate a lot without actually giving the town anything to go on.  Zakeri remains my preferred case.

As far as capt. h goes, I'm not saying that his play gives me a town vibe by any means, but I don't see scum intent there.  Some of his play is anti-town and pro-scum, but it all follows logically enough from the somewhat skewed viewpoints he's claiming.  I suppose I'm saying that his play isn't any more scummy than bad play inherently is by itself, and bad play is less of a scumtell in newbies who have every reason to play badly.

Wrote this as of #310, I see I'm being cut but my computer's dying so I need to get this out there.

[UncertainJakutten]

That's nice, and I must have missed the question. Though I'm PRETTY sure I DID answer it, thinking on it. I said several times that his little "There is no certainty in mafia" post was the straw that broke the camel's back. It made me realize just how much he was evading questions and not scumhunting. I said this several times. So...

[Helepolis]

This isn't true and you should be ashamed for this. rdj wasn't even voting Bard anymore when I made that post.

Eh, I know that. He unvoted in panic. And then you lectured him.

My lecture had nothing to do with Bard and everything to do with encouraging rdj, who I saw as a new player confused with what to do, not to sit back unvoted and instead make a new case that he believes in.

Rdj does not believe in anything. He has been ordered and isn't moving an inch for that reason. You declared Bardiche clean for no reason.

So, I'm confused. I only see two votes on Bard including capt. h.'s

Are you seriously planning to make this a wagon out of nowhere?

It is not out of nowhere. You asked me many times to scumhunt right? Like you have been doing on everybody. I explained clearly before my vote and analysis. So here is your scumhunt. I thought that was obvious from my serious posts.

Oh mai gawd how did you guess that Shadoweh who is manicing around trying to secure a lynch voted with the excuse of securing a lynch! You must be psychic!

No madame, not physic. It was the obvious left to clean up Bardiche's mess. Either quickly jump over, or stay at the useless double wagon. Zakeri is no longer a wagon. Another failure.


So yea, either all scums are in vote now, or one is waiting.


Cut by Capt h , Shadoweh and Serp but not changing the initial vote.


OT: Excuse me for dinner now. Miss Izayoi is throwing knives at me.

[Shadoweh]

I HAVE NEVER DECLARED BARD WAS CLEAN. STOP TELLING ME WHAT MY VIEWPOINTS ARE. If I have actually said "Bardiche is town do not lynch him" somewhere then by all means, show me where I did that! I have not. Your paranoia involving your scum team theory is stopping you from looking at the actions of individual players and judging them by their individual actions. If you're town you need to stop thinking in groups.

[Helepolis]

I HAVE NEVER DECLARED BARD WAS CLEAN. STOP TELLING ME WHAT MY VIEWPOINTS ARE. If I have actually said "Bardiche is town do not lynch him" somewhere then by all means, show me where I did that! I have not. Your paranoia involving your scum team theory is stopping you from looking at the actions of individual players and judging them by their individual actions. If you're town you need to stop thinking in groups.

Oh my, sudden screaming. Perhaps you did not read it #313 carefully. I used the word "declare" but it was obviously your actions causing it.

Strange, you demand me to show where you defended Bardiche, I do it in #313. You come up with lousy excuse. Then I explained clearly the case of Rdj's strange behaviour for that excuse.

Basically, I wouldn't be surprised you are just as scum as Bardiche. But Bardiche slipped, you didn't until now.

So now what?

[Serp]

That's nice, and I must have missed the question. Though I'm PRETTY sure I DID answer it, thinking on it. I said several times that his little "There is no certainty in mafia" post was the straw that broke the camel's back. It made me realize just how much he was evading questions and not scumhunting. I said this several times. So...

An annoying line, sure, but you weren't asking him a question, and he didn't give a dodgy answer.  You were just telling him how he should scumhunt, and he made a non sequitur comment justifying his methods.  His answers to your previous questions were poor, but they were complete, and I'm having a hard time seeing how you'd read them as evasive.

[UncertainJakutten]

Maybe my memory is off? It still remains that I can't remember one solid stance he's made until one page ago. And he spent a LOT of time rolefishing/dithering on Shadoweh/Bard for no purpose.