Darker than Black Mafia (Game Over Scum win)

[Bardiche]

Self-evident, yes, Serp.

Reporting what others are doing is giving an illlusion of being active, and highlights a (negative) trait in one's posting without considering actual wording and context. It highlights something "bad" someone's done without actually saying so, relying on others to see the "bad" and voting it while keeping out of the issue yourself.

Reporting and cheerleading are like two brothers who go on a date.

[capt. h]

Reporting and cheerleading are like two brothers who go on a date.

 :ohdear:

Thanks for that, Bard. Thank you so much for that image.

@Helepolis

Correct. You aren't making a visible contribution. What conclusions do you expect me to draw from players that don't make visible contributions?

They're the first to see the noose.

[Shadoweh]

I'm still writing and I hate to interupt, but
@mod4u: Is that last votecount missing a vote on UncertainKitten a typo?

[Helepolis]

@Helepolis

Correct. You aren't making a visible contribution. What conclusions do you expect me to draw from players that don't make visible contributions?

Define "visible contribution". A vote? A summary like everybody did?  A deep-analysis of everybody's actions?

[Janitor Morgan]

Also, rdj, are you saying that lying about one's abilities and openly admitting to doing so is a null tell?

It was a public action, and nothing seems to have happened as a direct result of it. If he was lying about NOT having an ability and then using one, that would raise a red flag in my opinion, but using an ability he doesn't have doesn't appear scummy to me.

However:

So how do you feel about me bro. The Zakeri train you're unsure of, okay, I dig that, bro. Brofist on that. But you haven't explained why you needed to raise people's actions with everyone.

And trying to paint a black and white picture that "if I cannot report people's actions, you must want x and so" does not do you favours. People can pay attention by themselves, we don't need you to point out what's going on and slinking to the sidelines with "it's all a nulltell!".

On the action list: Shadoweh said that I needed to provide my input on everyone else, so I posted the list and gave a short summary of what I took away from the items on that list, thinking was what she meant. I also thought that it would provide a starting point for people that did not read over the other posts, and that if they wanted more information or thought that I was misrepresenting things, they could go back and check, then make their own decision (this addresses the second part of your post). Evidently that was 1) not what she wanted, if I'm interpreting you correctly, and 2) not anywhere near enough explanation.

On you: Because I'm unsure of the Zakeri train, I really don't have anything on you other than that you've voted me for acting scummy. The fake actions, as I mentioned to Dormio and as you yourself have said, can't be a scum tell because there were no visible results. Just as non-kill night actions are sent in private and are resolved in private, day actions are resolved in public, if I understand the game mechanics correctly. This leaves only your vote, and though I am town, I understand why you are voting me. Bad townies are just as harmful as scum.

At any rate, had I known I would perform this badly, I would not have signed up. All I can do now is try to make up for my mistakes, or get lynched trying.

cut cut cut cut cut

Hanged Mokou: Is it not common practice to offer input on things? Even if Hele wasn't speaking directly to me, it was something to be responded to. I brought up UK's stance on lurking because I agree with her; at that time, it was too early in day 1 to tell who the lurkers were. I also agreed with Hele's analysis because scum COULD be blending in with the town and participating in discussions. In retrospect, that is common sense and I don't know why I felt the need to state "I agree" with regards to that point.

Also in retrospect, I probably shouldn't have taken Dormio's vote so seriously. That, combined with my misassessment of what constituted an opinion in this game, is what's gotten me into this mess.

##Unvote

[Kitten4u]

I'm still writing and I hate to interupt, but
@mod4u: Is that last votecount missing a vote on UncertainKitten a typo?

What typo?  I see no typo. *whistles innocently*
Yeah, it was.  Fixed.

[Kitten4u]

Voting
NeoSerela(1): Shadoweh
Zakeri(1): NeoSerela
rdj(2): Schezo, Bardiche
Serp(1): Helepolis
Dormio(1): Yonowaaru
UncertainKitten(2): Serp, Zakeri
Conqueror(1): Conqueror
Bardiche:(2): Dormio, capt h
Helepolis(1): Hanged Hourai

Not voting
UK, rdj

14 alive, 8 votes required for a lynch
~44 hours remain

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Shouldn't rdj be on the not voting list?

[capt. h]

Just because it doesn't give direct visible "contribution" to this situation, does not mean it is "useless".

Define "visible contribution". A vote? A summary like everybody did?  A deep-analysis of everybody's actions?

@ Helepolis - You may want to watch that temper.

If you really want to know what I consider useful, your should bring up an original point no one else has thought up, and is perfectly valid in this situation. If you at least make a summary on everyone, then when we catch scum, we'll have at least one statement per person that town can use. But you should do something that you would consider constitutes a visible contribution, since it's by your own admission that what you've posted so far does not qualify.

[Shadoweh]

Oooh and it starts, I leave for a few hours and it's newbie-train o' clock just as planned.

Rdj: Bardiche is incapable of telling you what Shadoweh wanted unless he learned mindhax lately. You're operating under alot of misconceptions that could be considered scummy, so I'm going to go over some of them. They're self-devised traps you shouldn't fall into. Providing a summary of people's actions is considered reporting, buffing your content by just showing what other people said. Don't do it, people will look for themselves and they don't appreciate the effort. Secondly don't assume anything about actions. Private actions could resolve publicly and public actions could resolve privately. You aren't "in a mess" yet, it's just crazy Bard. Just find another case on someone you think is acting scummy now that the game is going (and we're PLAYING MAFIA YAAY~) and keep your vote on them. The only thing you can do wrong is give up.

capt.h: That's an interesting viewpoint you have there. Why do you think only scum can be contractors or have post restrictions?
K4U: Of course not, you're absolutely flawless.

[Hanged Hourai]

@ Hanged Hourai,     OT > (why did you change your nick btw... thought that was not allowed in this game)

I did it a while before the game started. :<

You seem to be missing my point or misunderstanding. I wouldn't be surprised with that temper. I merely requested clarification on your groundless assumptions.

Temper?
If you are talking about the assumption that you were not contributing, I believe you said that you were holding back your opinions until everyone has said enough. It may just be the difference in playstyles, but I don't like that.

Rdj Reply

Ummmm, I still feel the fence-sittingness. The unvote with no case on anyone is groan-inducing. Urgh, this is your first game?

[capt. h]

capt.h: That's an interesting viewpoint you have there. Why do you think only scum can be contractors or have post restrictions?

I thought this game was humans versus contractors.

Although now that you bring it up, I guess there could be human scum and contractor town.

@Mod: Are we playing humans versus contractors or scum versus town?

[Shadoweh]

I can't believe you just asked that question.  :fail:

Okay, Serela still isn't here but unless he votes for himself I'm feeling like:

##UNVOTE
##VOTE: Helepolis

If you're staying on the lookout for weird shenanigans and nothing else, how did you not notice there was something screwey with the votecount? So you're not watching for weirdness and you're not scumhunting and you're brushing aside your no longer lurker's argument against you as temper, so.. what are YOU going to do to contribute to town today?

[Pesco]

@Mod: Are we playing humans versus contractors or scum versus town?

An informed minority versus an uninformed majority

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Anyway.

Helepolis: Opinions. Simply having the facts is useless if we don't use these facts to form our own opinions.

Voting
Conqueror(1): Conqueror

:V

... It would appear as though I am currently incapable of any thought, considering how I've been staring at this for half an hour.

Warning - while you were typing 2 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.
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Stacking diseases is so awesome.

[Schezo]

Alright so yes, from what I can get from this game, a lot of derp and and a lot of not saying much going on.  So to better make my decisions, I've decided to line people up by how much conviction they have had behind their actions.  These are the people I'm watching the most so far:

Helepolis: He seems to have some newbie air around him sure, but I don't think he's aware of what active lurking really means since it was pointed out to him.  All game he has indeed been active lurking which is not directly lurking in un itself, but posting a bunch of stuff that makes one appear like they are really doing something when really all they are saying is fluff and not scumhunting at all really.  It's posts like this that can be counted as active lurking since his own opinions aren't really going out there.  He later seems to confirm that's what he's doing, but he may not realize what he is doing is bad.  We really need to hear opinions from what is already on the table right now.  It's not ok to just wait for everything to get revealed because nothing ever would if all of the town just sat around twiddling our thumbs and not daring to make cases on one another to find scum.  I wouldn't feel right about this wagon right now but if it persists then yes I'll take another look at him.

rdj:  Shadoweh just covered a lot of what I was going to say and time constraints and just >.<

Hard to get a read on Bard right now but that first role declaration may have been with satire.  Everyone's reaction to it was interesting though.

Conqueror should stop jerking around and play the game now that it has gotten serious. 

capt H.: Now this one is odd.  The fact that immediately took Dormio's case on Bard and voted him for being annoying instead of being scum when the reasons against the Bard vote have been whacked over the head already.  He then proceeds to Bash Hele for being Newbie and is currently role speculating.  Make up your mind.  What do you want to happen?  Finding the scum is our priority and scum hunting is what we need to use to do it.  All of this wishy washiness is not pro town so it would be great if you started standing by your convictions.

That said, he looks the strangest.
##Unvote:
##Vote: capt. H

[Helepolis]

orz time zones, need to sleep first, probably have to read quite some stuff tomorrow :V

I understand most of you are upset about me not taking any solid actions or contributions. And nobody said I was going to wait till the last minute either. I like how words are being added to my own story and being shaped into something people just want to believe themselves.

Give me some mental rest for the time being, and I'll input my contribution after carefully typing my post. I am sure it will be helpful.

[WHMZakeri]

Hey, Bard and Everyone else who's voting reason is "Reporter style slash IIOA"

How about instead of voting for someone who is trying to give opinions, but failing.
You vote people who refuse to give opinions in the first place?

You know, people like, for instance, certain kittens.

or rather

Uncertain kittens.

...just a thought.

[Janitor Morgan]

Ummmm, I still feel the fence-sittingness. The unvote with no case on anyone is groan-inducing. Urgh, this is your first game?

On MotK? Yes. In general? ...may as well be. :fail:

Rdj: Bardiche is incapable of telling you what Shadoweh wanted unless he learned mindhax lately. You're operating under alot of misconceptions that could be considered scummy, so I'm going to go over some of them. They're self-devised traps you shouldn't fall into. Providing a summary of people's actions is considered reporting, buffing your content by just showing what other people said. Don't do it, people will look for themselves and they don't appreciate the effort. Secondly don't assume anything about actions. Private actions could resolve publicly and public actions could resolve privately. You aren't "in a mess" yet, it's just crazy Bard. Just find another case on someone you think is acting scummy now that the game is going (and we're PLAYING MAFIA YAAY~) and keep your vote on them. The only thing you can do wrong is give up.

re: making newbie mistakes -- Noted.
re: don't give up -- I'm trying.

As for finding another case, I'm interested in capt. h. Not only is his vote jumping from person to person, but he's also recommended that Helepolis stop lurking by doing exactly what caused Bardiche to vote me. Perhaps he's trying to draw attention away from himself? Seems rather scummy to me. Helepolis doesn't look too town-ish to me either, but perhaps his explanation of his stance will change my mind.

##Vote: capt. h

[Shadoweh]

Helepolis: You have around 43 hours to change people's minds, please do so.

Schezo: Sorry, I type more manic then you. You don't see anything wrong with UK's /ignore of giving opinions?

My reply to Bard's shenanigans:
~~~<~@~~~<~@~~~<~@~~~<~@~~~<~@
Shadoweh waited at the steps of the podium as Bardiche strode down the steps, the sun glistening over his hair like diamonds refracting a disco ball. She rushed to his side, locking their fingers together in worry. "Was that all true? Are you running off with that UnreliableKriminal and leaving me in this poor town we grew up in?" Bardiche, swave as ever, answered, "Of course not baby, you know I'm a gambiting man. Come with me into my quick topic and I'll show you my Unlimited Gambit Works." Unable to resist, Shadoweh swooned and quickly rewarded the magnificent macho manipulator with a hot, steamy, X rated kiss.
~~~<~@~~~<~@~~~<~@~~~<~@~~~<~@

[Hanged Hourai]

Just for clarity, are you saying he's scum, that his shenanigans are wooing you, or that you both have a QT?

[Shadoweh]

For clarity I am going to answer exactly zero of those questions.

[Schezo]

And hey it's totally anti town to claim stuff and withold it from town...

[Bardiche]

We're going to have hot, steaming intercourse in the backroom, you dirty voyeurs. >_>

[WHMZakeri]

What?

But...

How did...?

What are Conqueror and I suppose to do now?

[Shadoweh]

I've been waiting two mafia games for my sonnets

Oh uh, don't be shy, carry on with that mafia thing and don't let me stop you! *cough*

[UncertainJakutten]

Oh God, catch up post!

@Shadoweh 74: That's great. But that doesn't remove the fact that you couched the newb parts of your post in scummy terms. Why?

@rdj 75: Your case is bad and you should feel bad. First, no need to cite the posts that have nothing interesting. Second, if you aren't going to stand behind your point, don't use it. That completely destroys your entire case. The main thing you lack is conviction, though logical reasoning also would help. Right now you're saying he made an off hand comment that may or may not be scummy, and nothing else is interesting.

@capt. h. 76: This is actually interesting.

@Hele 77: Yes, but what's the point of the speculation?

@Hele 81: All right. Define who is lurking as of...hour 22, when you made that post!

@Bard 82: I'll :V you fuckshit >=[! (jk, ilu Bard )

@rdj 83: Those are not opinions, those are reportings. Give opinions, thank you.

Dammit Bard 84, quit stealin' future me's thunder. Pasthole >=[!

@Bard 86: Well, you WERE Scum last time you picked only one target! Kidding aside, this post is fairly solid.

@Zak 89: Active lurking in 23 hours. Awesome. Hell, you voted me with even less hours. I think I was asleep when you did that. And I was running DnD when you posted that. Then I went out for a few hours.

Oh, not to mention the misrep. Where did I ever say anything about "getting back to you in a week or so"? At all?

So, on the one hand, I know that bad cases aren't scummy but...last time Zak made a bad case against me, he was scum. Not to mention his complete failure to account for reality.

Hell, ##Vote Zakeri. There you go!

@rdj 95: You're missing the point. My issue with Shadoweh isn't the newbie attack. It's the fact her list was phrased in a manner that wants you to think she wants newbie lynches. The implication was that she'd jump on anyone taking the bait. I do not see how this helps catch scum. I do see how it makes pretty cases. So, I'm underwhelmed with Shadoweh. The other issue is your entire post takes no solid stance. You do not have "pro town but maybe not" as an option. Pick. Town. Or. Scum. For everyone mentioned. Do not include null tells, they don't matter. Ideally, just post Scum: Because Post X had scum intent, due to Y. Town read posts are useless. (Town reads are not)

@capt h. 98: Why the fuck does it matter what actions Bard does? Unless he's fullclaiming roles and actions, you ignore what the fuck he's doing and scum hunt. Quit. Wasting. Time. Scumhunt!

@Caedo 99: Pro tip, it can be.

@capt. h. 103: Great. So...scum intent where?

@Caedo 107: Lovely. You're policy voting. No. Consider what Bard has to gain from lying? Please?

@capt. h. 111: Is anti town scummy? Further, what precisely makes his actions anti town? No, seriously, this interests me.

The accusations of active lurking a little over 24 hours into the game amuse the fuck out of me. That said, HH's post isn't bad.

@Hele 114: Amazing contribution, simply wonderful.

##Unvote, Vote Helepolis

How about you post opinions about players, guy? Such as, hey, Hanged Hourai. That sounds like a great idea. What do you think of him accusing you of active lurking?

God DAMMIT people, why do you have to post what I'm posting!?

I see Active lurking is going to be the words of the day. Did it occur to you that my prodding is helping determine where my vote should go? I'm trying to get information.

@Hele 119: Your post says that you aren't going to contribute anything at all. That helps scum more than town. You do realize that you have to give as well, right? Opinions and where you stand are THE most important things to keep transparent in mafia. Being wrong isn't scummy. Being unopinionated is. It's one thing to say that in RVS. It's a whole 'nother to say it after things are getting into the game. There's a lot to look at! So you know what would be cool? Rereading the game, trying to figure out who's actions help scum most, and then...and this is the hard part...telling us what you think!

@rdj 124: Good news! You bleed town! Bad news! It's derp town! First, you should have a vote down (cue cries of hypocrisy), secondly, you don't backtrack to rectify errors. You fix errors by being proactive and showing us what you've fixed, not admitting you messed up. So...I still have no idea who you find scummy! Enlighten me!

@Shadoweh 129: Newbie train? Where? I seem to have the biggest wagon, if it can be called such.

@capt. h.'s page 5 posts: HI FLAVOR SPECULATION!

Stop. Now. Flavor speculation is anti town at best and scummy at worst. The fact you aren't producing ANYTHING ELSE besides it makes it scummier. If you want a fuller explanation of why, ask me. I'd rather not inflate this post more.

@Hele 136: No, we're not upset at all. We just think you're scum. Nothing personal~

@Zak 137: Your case still sucks. See? I can repeat myself too and add nothing new at all!

##Unvote, Vote Zakeri

Fuck, BOTH of you can die for all I care!

@Shadoweh: Lol wut? There's like, no ignore of giving opinions at all? Maybe [[citation needed]] would get my point across better?

OH MY GOD CAUGHT UP! tl;dr post incoming!

[UncertainJakutten]

tl;dr!

A) Zakeri is useless as hell! His "case" on me is not founded in reality. Last time he did that he was scum! The fact that his further contributions have been reiterating the same tired point for no reason just further indicates scuminess. Particularly given his AMAZING lack of opinions outside of on my stunning self. Again, we've seen this pattern before guys~

B) Helepolis is hilarious for the whole throwing around active lurking accusations while producing nothing of value! And then further trying to justify this by...uh...saying that a judge waits for opinions or somethings? Are you completely missing the fatal flaw that you too are being judged? How is it pro town to hang back once things get serious, again?

C) Capt. h....is funny. On the one hand, he could be playing usual derpself. He was hard for me to read last game too. On the other hand, there's a lot of good scum reasoning for flavor spec and not much else, which he has stunningly provided us. Least certain on this one.

D) Shadoweh started off badly, but has shored it up outside of that ridiculous poke at me for no opinions, which is utterly silly. I'm willing to place her back at neutral for now.

E) rdj bleeds derp town. That is all.

F) Caedo and Capt. H's. votes on Bard are dumb and distracting. Scumhunt please!

If I don't mention you, you aren't interesting! Please try to be!

[capt. h]

Helepolis: You have around 43 hours to change people's minds, please do so.

Schezo: Sorry, I type more manic then you. You don't see anything wrong with UK's /ignore of giving opinions?

My reply to Bard's shenanigans:
~~~<~@~~~<~@~~~<~@~~~<~@~~~<~@
Shadoweh waited at the steps of the podium as Bardiche strode down the steps, the sun glistening over his hair like diamonds refracting a disco ball. She rushed to his side, locking their fingers together in worry. "Was that all true? Are you running off with that UnreliableKriminal and leaving me in this poor town we grew up in?" Bardiche, swave as ever, answered, "Of course not baby, you know I'm a gambiting man. Come with me into my quick topic and I'll show you my Unlimited Gambit Works." Unable to resist, Shadoweh swooned and quickly rewarded the magnificent macho manipulator with a hot, steamy, X rated kiss.
~~~<~@~~~<~@~~~<~@~~~<~@~~~<~@

We're going to have hot, steaming intercourse in the backroom, you dirty voyeurs. >_>

You two are NOT this buddy-buddy. You two are more likely to rip eachother's throats out than get this deep into the roleplaying aspect. Honestly, this is the strangest interaction I've seen all game, and it's leaving me too confused to figure out what exactly I'm looking at.

I'm going to assume neither of you consider the other to be scum, and simply ask what your opinions on eachother are.

[Hanged Hourai]

@mod: Has a prod been sent to NeoSerela?