Author Topic: Touhou 13 ~ Ten Desires announced! - Thread II (Reitaisai 8 scheduled!) (Read 104795 times)

Chaotic Phoenixma · « **Reply #30 on:** March 22, 2011, 12:23:08 AM »

Shackles a Criminal Can't Remove got changed so much on the full version of SA.

Never got to try to the demo's version, but it looks so much better than that card in the full version.

Drake · « **Reply #31 on:** March 22, 2011, 12:41:15 AM »

Shackles was changed because it killed everything.

Chaotic Phoenixma · « **Reply #32 on:** March 22, 2011, 02:15:07 AM »

From the video I saw of it, it just needed the gaps a little wider so that Marisa could get through.

DX7.EP · « **Reply #33 on:** March 22, 2011, 02:23:14 AM »

Quote from: Chaotic Phoenixma on March 22, 2011, 02:15:07 AM

From the video I saw of it, it just needed the gaps a little wider so that Marisa could get through.

Further proof that Marisa is a bit large (overweight, large build, Chou Marisa, whatever) and thus keeps getting shafted in the games. Her speed and freaking Master Spark are the only reasons why I even play as her in the later games.

nintendonut888 · « **Reply #34 on:** March 22, 2011, 03:06:07 AM »

Seriously. My wish is that someday ZUN will handle hitboxes like in PCB, where Reimu's small hitbox was a bonus, rather than Marisa/whoever being given a penalty. Or do it like EoSD and before and remove the differences altogether.

LHCling · « **Reply #35 on:** March 22, 2011, 03:22:02 AM »

donut: rtfm

Seriously, read it. It's right there, in your game folder. y'know, marked 「マニュアル」。
Actually, here's an extract of the relevant line:

Quote

特技当たり判定が若干小さい

nintendonut888 · « **Reply #36 on:** March 22, 2011, 03:55:59 AM »

Uhhhhh.

Sorry I'm not fluent in Japanese? What does it say?

Drake · « **Reply #37 on:** March 22, 2011, 03:58:30 AM »

special ability hitbox is a bit smaller

LHCling · « **Reply #38 on:** March 22, 2011, 04:06:48 AM »

or special skill slightly smaller collision detection but you're probably better off with the above

nintendonut888 · « **Reply #39 on:** March 22, 2011, 04:08:06 AM »

Okay...? What was the point then? I don't have any hard data, but it feels like the differences in hitboxes was different between PCB and everything afterwards. In PCB, Marisa and Sakuya feel like they have the hitbox from EoSD, while Reimu has a smaller hitbox. From IN on, it feels like Reimu has the hitbox from EoSD, and everyone else has one that's bigger. If there have to be differences at all (which I don't see why there ever had to be), I'd prefer the way PCB did it.

Because man, I see Youmu, and I really want to use Youmu since she's one of my favorite characters, but I just know I'm going to end up using Reimu like always because her hitbox is smaller.

Stuffman · « **Reply #40 on:** March 22, 2011, 06:37:11 AM »

I kind of have a feeling that's how it's supposed to be with Marisa.

Like it's sort of a "ARE YOU A BAD ENOUGH DUDE TO PLAY AS MARISA" thing.

Youmu will probably be kind of gimmicky but not necessarily bad. Maybe potentially really strong like IN solo!

Pesco · « **Reply #41 on:** March 22, 2011, 07:54:09 AM »

Hakurei's special ability of eating sweets and not getting fat :V

Mimachiro · « **Reply #42 on:** March 22, 2011, 10:13:53 AM »

Gotta love the perks of being the Hakurei maiden. Makes one wonder if that is the reason for Reimu's smaller hitbox. I wouldn't mind seeing PCB hitboxes again.

Letty Whiterock · « **Reply #43 on:** March 22, 2011, 10:46:41 AM »

Hitboxes.

http://i55.tinypic.com/2vxmxqv.jpg

<theshim> that thing is almost 2 mb man

Solais · « **Reply #44 on:** March 22, 2011, 11:48:59 AM »

Also, there were two UFO demos, and the first didn't had the bosses dropping life pieces, making the game a lot harder imo.

Also, from what I know, actually there are differences in the hitboxes in EoSD, Marisa's while it's not larger, it's a lot less consistent. (Aka, it's not really in the middle.)

LHCling · « **Reply #45 on:** March 22, 2011, 01:25:46 PM »

Man, I've been sitting here for ours trying to figure out how to word this right. Still don't know whether or not this is, but eh.

Quote from: nintendonut888 on March 22, 2011, 04:08:06 AM

Okay...? What was the point then?

Point is, Reimu's hitbox is, regardless of the game and sans pre-PCB, considered an advantage. You considered it a standard, and you marked the other player characters' hitboxes as a disadvantage. Which is all sorts of wrong. When you look at these sorts of things, you keep it to the game itself. Otherwise, you end up like those people who complain about the oddities of things like EoSD bullets (in truth, people should be arguing the other way if you ever feel the need to argue about it!), or a lack of a hitbox in EoSD, or that UFO is so over-the-top difficult because the first three stages aren't so trivial and a totally different survival (and to an extent, scoring) system was implemented.

By the way, certain bullets have had their bullets increased in size since EoSD. So yeah, Reimu's always had a PCB!Reimu-esque hitbox, and the other characters in similar fashion.

Somehow skimmed over this.

Quote from: Chaotic Phoenixma on March 22, 2011, 02:15:07 AM

From the video I saw of it, it just needed the gaps a little wider so that Marisa could get through.

No, no. You just need to be- what's that word? Good?

Mint: Aya's / Hatate's hitboxes are the beautiful things ever. _{also so totally oversized}

Kips McKipzerson · « **Reply #46 on:** March 22, 2011, 01:48:05 PM »

Personally, I cant see the difference between Reimus or Marisa's hitboxes. Do remember thatevery SHMUP game I've ever played (which is a lot) has characters with advantages or disadvantages. It's that way in all games. What some characters lack in speed, they make up for with power, and vice versa.

DX7.EP · « **Reply #47 on:** March 22, 2011, 02:02:28 PM »

I never worried about Reimu's or Marisa's hitboxes either. While it has made the difference between graze and pichuun several times, I consider this aspect not much more than a character trait that can be used to better fit one's playing style.

@Mint: That is just crazy with the hitbox size - StB makes even less sense now.

Helix ⑨ · « **Reply #48 on:** March 22, 2011, 03:18:50 PM »

On a related note, something I have always been wondering. Are there character perks in UFO? And if so, what are Sanae's perks?

nintendonut888 · « **Reply #49 on:** March 22, 2011, 04:19:23 PM »

Quote from: LHCling on March 22, 2011, 01:25:46 PM

Man, I've been sitting here for ours trying to figure out how to word this right. Still don't know whether or not this is, but eh.Point is, Reimu's hitbox is, regardless of the game and sans pre-PCB, considered an advantage. You considered it a standard, and you marked the other player characters' hitboxes as a disadvantage. Which is all sorts of wrong.

I judge the hitboxes by using EoSD's as a standard, since that hitbox size to me is the perfect size. I didn't really mind in PCB when Reimu got her advantage, since Marisa and Sakuya could still function like in EoSD. However, when the advantage is given by giving Reimu the regular EoSD hitbox and making everyone else's bigger, THAT'S when I have a problem. Touhou games as a whole are mostly interchangable when it comes to gameplay, and enlarging the hitbox would be the same as extending Mega Man's hitbox by a few pixels. Small difference, yes, but when it comes down to pixel-perfect precision, it's an annoying one and an unnecessary change. Sure shmups give shot types different advantages and disadvantages, but I don't see how giving Reimu a smaller hitbox balances anything out, since she always gets at least one powerful shot type as well. >_>

Quote from: Just Simply Solais on March 22, 2011, 11:48:59 AM

Also, from what I know, actually there are differences in the hitboxes in EoSD, Marisa's while it's not larger, it's a lot less consistent. (Aka, it's not really in the middle.)

Propoganda from people who aren't cool enough to use her in EoSD.

I personally have a harder time with Reimu's hitbox in that game.

Paper Conan · « **Reply #50 on:** March 22, 2011, 06:35:58 PM »

Quote from: nintendonut888 on March 22, 2011, 04:19:23 PM

Sure shmups give shot types different advantages and disadvantages, but I don't see how giving Reimu a smaller hitbox balances anything out, since she always gets at least one powerful shot type as well. >_>

Reimu not only has a terrible unfocused speed, she also has the weakest shot type (homing Reimu) in every game (excluding PCB's Sakuya A).

I would complain about the hitboxes in general, but I'm more than sure all my mistakes come from lack of skill.

RegalStar · « **Reply #51 on:** March 22, 2011, 07:52:20 PM »

Quote from: Paper_Conan on March 22, 2011, 06:35:58 PM

Reimu not only has a terrible unfocused speed, she also has the weakest shot type (homing Reimu) in every game (excluding PCB's Sakuya A).

I'm pretty sure that Focused SakuyaA is strongr than ReimuA (both focused and unfocused).

Iryan · « **Reply #52 on:** March 22, 2011, 08:44:06 PM »

Quote from: Paper_Conan on March 22, 2011, 06:35:58 PM

Reimu not only has a terrible unfocused speed, she also has the weakest shot type (homing Reimu) in every game (excluding PCB's Sakuya A).

I thought homing reimu being the weakest shottype was balancing out the fact that the shottype is, you know... homing.
Pretty much all games have a needle reimu as, which usually has one of the better damages and still has the hitbox advantage. :derp:

Mimachiro · « **Reply #53 on:** March 22, 2011, 09:49:33 PM »

Yeah, there would be problems if homing shots also had power; it would be way too easy. I enjoy the fun of trying to pit Marisa in the right place to pound the enemy with her powerful shots (love the challenge). I don't mind having homing shots though, so I can focus more on dodging.

ふとくていなねこじょおう · « **Reply #54 on:** March 23, 2011, 01:32:20 AM »

By the way, I just thought of something. If 10D is anywhere near the Sanzu, wouldn't that make the predictions about TH13 being water-based at least partially true? :derp:

Helepolis · « **Reply #55 on:** March 23, 2011, 07:32:24 AM »

Quote from: nekorandomnessqueen on March 23, 2011, 01:32:20 AM

By the way, I just thought of something. If 10D is anywhere near the Sanzu, wouldn't that make the predictions about TH13 being water-based at least partially true? :derp:

If you look it that way then you can make any prediction/speculation partially true about any subject.

あさらぎシジェ · « **Reply #56 on:** March 23, 2011, 08:52:13 AM »

Quote from: nekorandomnessqueen on March 23, 2011, 01:32:20 AM

By the way, I just thought of something. If 10D is anywhere near the Sanzu, wouldn't that make the predictions about TH13 being water-based at least partially true? :derp:

If that's to be the case then at most the stage 1 boss would be water-affiliated.
Unlikely anything beyond that.

Spoiler:

shadowbringer · « **Reply #57 on:** March 24, 2011, 01:42:51 AM »

Quote from: LHCling on March 22, 2011, 01:25:46 PM

Man, I've been sitting here for ours trying to figure out how to word this right. Still don't know whether or not this is, but eh.Point is, Reimu's hitbox is, regardless of the game and sans pre-PCB, considered an advantage. You considered it a standard, and you marked the other player characters' hitboxes as a disadvantage. Which is all sorts of wrong. When you look at these sorts of things, you keep it to the game itself. Otherwise, you end up like those people who complain about the oddities of things like EoSD bullets (in truth, people should be arguing the other way if you ever feel the need to argue about it!), or a lack of a hitbox in EoSD, or that UFO is so over-the-top difficult because the first three stages aren't so trivial and a totally different survival (and to an extent, scoring) system was implemented.

I complain about bullet hitboxes' size because there were several cases where I died because I underestimated their sizes or took wrong decisions (moving to where I'd supposedly be safer or standing still) by not knowing their actual sizes. Knowing the hitboxes is helpful for survival, avoids needless frustration and trial-and-error and adds an element to make a decision from, rather than having the player guess if he/she should move or stand still or move towards a safer area by going through some risky bullets or not (depending on their hitboxes).

Thinking that hitboxes are greater than what they really are = bullets seem too much limiting and you have to use bombs more, which gives the feeling that the game is cheap and luck can have a greater impact in your runs.
Thinking that hitboxes are smaller than what they really are = you die with bombs in stock and gets frustrated with the game.

For some reason, I find grazing easier to do (or more comfortable to do) on Batrider and Raiden Fighters Jet, but it may also be that their scoring systems don't require the player to graze as much. Perhaps, too, the enemy bullet hitboxes are more intuitive (not much different from their sprites) and this helps reduce the need to know their actual hitboxes for survival (I mean, there are less cases where you're supposed to decide between trusting your bullet hitbox knowledge or not)

MTSranger · « **Reply #58 on:** March 24, 2011, 02:24:10 AM »

Quote from: RegalStar on March 22, 2011, 07:52:20 PM

I'm pretty sure that Focused SakuyaA is strongr than ReimuA (both focused and unfocused).

That is correct most but not all the time because SakuyaA misses homing shots against bosses with small hitbox (Alice lol).
In part, it takes forever to kill anything in Extra/Phantasm with ReimuA.

Quote from: shadowbringer on March 24, 2011, 01:42:51 AM

Thinking that hitboxes are greater than what they really are = bullets seem too much limiting and you have to use bombs more, which gives the feeling that the game is cheap and luck can have a greater impact in your runs.
Thinking that hitboxes are smaller than what they really are = you die with bombs in stock and gets frustrated with the game.

Of all this talk about hitbox...
I find that they don't really matter that much (except in SA, and to a certain extent, UFO :V).
Movement speed (like lol EoSD Marisa focus) screws me up much more easily.
I haven't noticed any noticeable change in Marisa's hitbox imo (but then again, I'm not a fan of pixel-perfect dodging, so...)

Lreaper9 · « **Reply #59 on:** March 24, 2011, 04:21:26 AM »

I notice the difference, but yea it's the speed that usually gets me, not the hitbox XD.

Author Topic: Touhou 13 ~ Ten Desires announced! - Thread II (Reitaisai 8 scheduled!) (Read 104795 times)

Letty Whiterock