Zombie Apocalypse Mafia - GAME OVER

[Kilgamayan]

@Kilga: Well, I haven't seen anything from anyone else yet that has made me want to switch from capt. h. Has he provided any real opinions on any of the cases on the table yet? I can tell he's trying, but he really hasn't done that yet. While I don't find it particularly scummy (the day's only just started, he's a new player, etc.) at this point none of the other players seem scummy to me either. Hence, my vote.

So your vote is on someone for something you don't find particularly scummy because you don't find anything particularly scummy about anyone else? What makes his not particularly scummy action stand out?

Oh hey upon a read continuation I see this reason morphed into "I vote for the antitowniest when I have no scumreads". Not only is this a fairly easy stance to hide behind at the point in the game at which it was presented (a number of serious cases had been made already, so clearly the potential was there), I have to question why it wasn't mentioned in response to me.

More reading, largely in huh what's camp as that back-and-forth carries on. No change in my vote as a result.

---

Kilgamayan: Do you care to explain why you found the reasons for Bard uninteresting compared to reasons for me which were basically random votes?

For the reasons Zakeri mentioned. To condense it down, it felt like people were voting for him because he didn't have multiple votes to cast in all directions for everyone that fit his voting criteria. Except for this:

No, I'm voting him because his vote on NeoSerela is founded around actions of Serela's that aren't really scummy at all. It's a forced, bad case and it reeks of scum intent.

Actually I'd say it's a fairly pro-scum thing for RVS to extend because more time spent on RVS means less time spent on legitimate scumhunting, which is pretty obviously good for scum. Continuing RVS shenanigans extends RVS time, so.

Also you do realize you are criticizing the first "legitimate" ED1 case as "forced" and "bad", right? Every such case ever has been that way, short of a scum VI claiming scum. :C

---

PX's one retort post is kinda bad, ED1 reasons tend to be relatively bad more often than not (note that there is a difference between bad reasons and no reasons) and nowhere in the part of capt. h's quoted post do I see any indication of the very loud THIS VOTE ISN'T SERIOUS label that PX tries to slap on it. Misrep makes me sad.

[UncertainJakutten]

@Zak 136: One problem Zak. I'm not voting Capt. H.

I've merely expressed what I find odd about him, and have kept into consideration the points where it's just bad town play. Secondly, why did you give Bardiche an answer before he's shown up to answer? Thirdly, why do you spend one paragraph saying newbie punishing is bad...and then vote Schezo for being anti town? At the moment, I think I have to conclude your reasons for voting Schezo are silly.

However, you do at least hit what I was about to bring up about contradiction != scummy except in specific cases. Though for someone who is apparently so interested in consistency, that was an interesting mistake Shadoweh pointed out.

@Schezo 141: See, this is how townies get tricked into lynching townies. They decide that a single word is enough to determine why someone is scummy, without determining the why. That's one of the big reasons scum "tells" are becoming a worse and worse way to scumhunt, as compared to scum intent. OK, great, you've said Shadoweh misrepped Affinity. Question one is "how?" You may have already answered this, but feel free to requote yourself if you have. Question two is "How does this advance the goals of scum?" That latter question is more important than a rhetoric about "It's misrepping so it's bad!"

@Colt 146: All right, let's go with what I told Schezo.
One, HOW was voting a non existent player scummy?
Two, HOW did this advance the goals of scum?
I realize you're unvoting now but the vote in the first place is bad. Thirdly, do you have absolutely *no* other scum suspects in 5 pages?

Oh, hi HW saying the same thing >=[!

@Serela: What makes you so certain A) The newbie flailing is town, and B) That it's newbie flailing? How can you base a case off of an "easy scum target" when we lack flips thus far?

@Kilga: No, it's more he completely failed to acknowledge the existence of others filling his criteria and failed to provide reasoning for how Serela is distinguished from the rest. And then has failed to explain this thus far, though that could be due to sleep. Still wanted an explanation before laying off him.

All right, next thing I want to do is reread Conquerer to see what the hubbub is all about. Then I'll be placing my vote elsewhere.

[Serela]

How can you base a case off of an "easy scum target" when we lack flips thus far?

It wasn't a particularly strong case, as ED1 cases usually are. I am much more comfortable with my Zak vote, because... as I said, he's voting someone whom he doesn't have any reason to believe to be scum, and voting them over things that didn't even happen in the current game. It's jokevote material made as a serious case, and made outside of RVS by a player who is most certainly not new, that is completely absurd.

I'm surprised no one else until UK has so much as commented on Zak's vote at all. Are they distracted by the perfectly good logic provided in the rest of his post?

[UncertainJakutten]

@capt h.: What do you feel the liklihood is of a lynch occuring within the next 4 hours? Next 8? Next 16? Before everyone has chimed in? Secondly, do you think an attitude that "we aren't likely to catch scum D1" helps to catch scum in any way?

Hey capt! You never answered this. Taking the first question off the table. Answer the second one.

@Conquerer 73: Didn't notice this before. Why do you accuse PX of a "nice wagon jump" in what I presume is deadpan "y u do dis?" way, and don't VOTE him when your vote is currently parked on someone you perceive at antitown? I realize this is a past issue but it interests me.

Definitely seeing what Kilga 101 says. Particularly when he *has* named a better target. Yet...doesn't want to vote him because of "prior track record as town?" Yeah. No.

@Conquerer 104: So, to clarify, PX's "nice wagon jump" is not at all suspicious? Then why did you bring it up?

Oh, right, my scum intent on Conquerer. Bah, wish I had taken notes. Anyway, I found it odd Conquerer had *no other suspicions* and wanted to hide behind "WELLP HE'S ANTI TOWN"

@Capt. h. 111: OH wow this was rich. I totally missed this. Calling out lurkers after less than 6 hours of play? WHOOOOOOOOO!

@Conquerer 114: Why Capt. over PX? Particularly when the wagon hop should have been genuinely scummy.

HW is a pretty cool guy, eh, summarizes the case on Conquerer and doesn't afraid of anything.
I'm in full agreement with Post 116. Well, except for the parts that miss capt. h. scumminess.

@Conq 125: Yes, because "nice wagon jump" stated sarcastically is not an opinion at all. The main problem is that you explain *now* why you vote capt. h., but you never have before, just maintaining the vote! Thirdly, that's hilarious that you now call capt. h. *scummier* as opposed to *more anti-town*.

All right, you know what? I'm sold on Conquerer scum.

##Unvote
##Vote Conquerer (L-5, if I can count. Should be the fourth vote on him)

About the only issue I have is how easily the wagon on him formed, but even then it's not going strongly yet.
I'll also note I'm willing to put capt. h. as scum as well. (I kinda reread the whole game)

@Serela cut: I disagree you can use "easy scum target" as D1 reasoning without flips or information. I do find it interesting that no one else commented on Zak's vote.

[Shadoweh]

Mmm. I can't blame people for the Conqueror case, it's just that Zak sums up my feelings about it. Replace 'Kilga' with 'Everyone's'

Kilgamayan's case on Conqueror is theoretically sound. However, I don't really feel the way Conqueror is posting to be scumsourced as of yet.

I feel like Zak is trying to make a point with his vote that I'm not getting. Maybe he should let people know the punchline if it bothers them. As for capt.h frankly considering what he said about Schezo before joining the game I'm not surprised he voted like he did.

General note to newer players: Please give comments on at least 2-3 players and lay a vote on who you think sounds worst. At this point everyone should have a vote on whoever you think is scummiest.

PX: 

[UncertainJakutten]

@Shadoweh: That's about my feelings. The Schezo vote feels like bait  for...something.

[capt. h]

I don't think there is a high likelihood of anyone getting lynched in the next 48 hours, Kitten, let alone the next 24.

Truth be told, the attacks on the non-existant players was just over-excitement, and I wasn't planning to mount a strong attack on any of them until I know which ones aren't here.

##Vote Shadoweh

You have yet to establish a case on PX, yet you are voting for him anyway. In fact, you go through more effort avoiding voting for Conqueror then you do explaining your PX vote. You seem to take the case against PX for granted.

Kilga: Actually, the way you put it right there makes perfect sense. Agree with the no noise policy.

I really want to vote PX for his idiot newbie bandwagon but I think he can't help but look like scum. You should get that checked. In general to everyone, last game was awesome but it isn't the only game in existence and is not the be all and end all of mafia situations. I think I'll make that a real vote for now and evaluate later.

You later go on to explain how PX has no content in two other instances. However,  you seem to have a stronger case against Conqueror than PX. I would like to hear your case on PX.


For Shadoweh: Looking back, I actually unvoted because:

Cut by capt. h: So? Pesco scares me regardless of my alignment but I don't constantly push him for lynch. (Although, maybe I should.)

Sorry for the misrep.

[UncertainJakutten]

OK. Capt. H. You see that post you just made? That was a good post

Keep it up.

Small quibble though, where does Shadoweh post a case on Conquerer? Could you link or quote it?

[UncertainJakutten]

EBWOP: But you answered the wrong part of my question, Capt. I was asking about the catching scum D1 thing.

[Shadoweh]

This isn't a problem yet but please don't call her Kitten, there are two of them. UK is better.
My case on PX hasn't changed since I voted. This is because as I am subtly pointing out he hasn't said anything else yet. Other people defending him is great but I prefer the person I'm actually voting for give me a reason not to.

I don't have a case on Conqueror. He's posting too much for me to think he's scum. If he's faking interest his undeniable deep red lurker urges will give him away in time.

[UncertainJakutten]

@Shadoweh: Disagree that posting amount determines scuminess. I'm a VERY good example of this. Regardless of alignment, I post LOTS, whenever I can. I've seen other players do the same thing.

[Serp]

VOTECOUNT  -  Groggy Mod Edition

Conqueror (4)  -  Kilgamayan, huh what, Affinity, UncertainKitten, NeoSerela
Shadoweh (2)  -  Schezo, capt. h
Zakeri (1)  -  NeoSerela, Shadoweh
capt. h (1)  -  Conqueror, Colt, Hanged Hourai
Schezo (1)  -  Zakeri, capt. h
huh what (1)  -  Hanged Hourai, Affinity, NeoSerela
NeoSerela (1)  -  Bardiche, Kilgamayan
PX (1)  -  Shadoweh
Dormio (1)  -  PX, Kilgamayan, huh what
Bardiche (0)  -  UncertainKitten, huh what, NeoSerela
Kilgamayan (0)  -  Shadoweh, Conqueror

Not Voting:  Colt, Dormio, Kitten4u

With 16 votes in play, 9 are required to lynch.

[capt. h]

EBWOP: But you answered the wrong part of my question, Capt. I was asking about the catching scum D1 thing.

Yes my attitude was unhelpful earlier day 1. I said we were unlikely to catch scum day 1 because we are unlikely to catch scum day 1. It's right in the How to play Mafia Flash tutorial right here: http://www.sitesled.com/members/mikeburnfire/mafiascum04.swf


Now, these are Shadoweh's mentions on Conqueror:

Conqueror: Are you going to come back to what you think on Bard later?  :V

Are we reading the same game here? PX has posted one blatantly blatant wagon hop onto the newbie and one post completely tunneling on his newbie vote target. Considering you're calling Conqueror out for not targetting anyone else in one sentence and acknowledging he's looked at two other players in another, this is suspicious. If you misread it PX didn't ask any questions to 'Schezo and co.' and said he would 'get on to other people.'You've said some version of 'I will look tomorrow' four times now. Are you doing this on purpose?

PX: 

Mmm. I can't blame people for the Conqueror case, it's just that Zak sums up my feelings about it.

Kilgamayan's case on Conqueror is theoretically sound. However, I don't really feel the way Conqueror is posting to be scumsourced as of yet.

That was the entrety of Zak's case for Conqueror.

This isn't a problem yet but please don't call her Kitten, there are two of them. UK is better.
My case on PX hasn't changed since I voted. This is because as I am subtly pointing out he hasn't said anything else yet. Other people defending him is great but I prefer the person I'm actually voting for give me a reason not to.

I don't have a case on Conqueror. He's posting too much for me to think he's scum. If he's faking interest his undeniable deep red lurker urges will give him away in time.

You basically don't seem to have a case on anyone, and seem to be ignoring Huh What's case against Conqueror. And the reason you don't vote Conqueror is because of Zak's feelings, which is that the case is sound, but it doesn't feel scummy enough yet.

It's not that you have a case on PX or Conqueror that bothers me. It's that you have no case on PX, and are actively ignoring the case on Conqueror in favor of a vote on someone for which you have no case.

[UncertainJakutten]

@Capt. H.: Wow, that is completely terrible. While it's TRUE, it's still not helpful to point out. And to be honest, I think "unlikely to lynch scum D1" is an overused and inflated meme. With proper scumhunting, I feel a better D1 scum lynch rate can be achieved. Of course, with people like you saying it's impossible, of COURSE it won't happen.

[Bardiche]

So, what, I return to see that people diagnose my case is shoddy (no, seriously, people?), and UK clinging on to her vote on me for nearly eternity when 1) Kilga had already explained that prodding was useless as I was, indeed, asleep and 2) such a whirlwind of things happened and the best thing she can find is a vote on me for NOT flailing and accusing everyone of being useless?

Sorry, everyone's RVS posts are useless and I'd vote every single one of you, but until a bastard mod passes me the multiple votes role, I'm afraid I just can't do that.

As for why Serela and not X, at the time I started writing my post, Serela was the one posting directly before me. Now that I've elucidated this important point I am curious what UK hoped to accomplish by parking her vote on me when other things surfaced and a prod vote was clearly not going to be of use?

The scuffle with capt h is not really that fascinating to vote for. He's derp and engages in the traditional MotK "Let's sit back and see what happens" playstyle which we see so often in our D1's. Being lost early D1 is nothing new for newcomers, so I'm not inclined to vote him for it.

Not sure how I feel about Zakeri being scummy. He's an experienced player so obviously he knows that his case is shit and that people're going to slam him for it, so why make it at all? To declare it SCUMMIEST THING AROUND!! and immediately vote it without considering the implications feels lazy, and so I would like NeoSerela to recap why Zakeri's movement is more scummy than incrediderp.

Zakeri may come in and explain why he made that case, I can't imagine he thought we'd all jump on board and saunter off into a schezo-lynching sunset with that kind of case.

UK finds it interesting people didn't mention Zakeri. Does interesting equal scummy?

Huh What, why did you need to have a major epiphany before you concluded that your vote on me was, in fact, absolute crud?

There's just so many people I want to vote for, but I still have only one vote (and no six hammer votes to crumble either ) so I'm going to go with the one who I find most egregious. ##UNVOTE
##VOTE: UncertainKitten

You mention that you worry how easily the wagon on Conq was made. I take this as a worry that there may be scum intent founded in voting him. Yet you seem to agree he is the scummiest person around.

Why make this mention at all? Shouldn't it be a good thing lots of people pile on the person who looks scummiest to you?

This mystery, along with the dogged idea that voting me until page 6 was going to yield a groundbreaking revelation, as well as a plethora of friendly conversation that sadly has no real bearance on the here and now of the game raise you to my utmost scum state. It's this post that's funny, because you're saying there's enough to work with to make cases, and yet you have made no effort to do so yet other than prodding and prying.

This feels like a cheerlead. Conqueror and capt H are scummy, but I'm not going to pursue it, is how I read that.

[Serela]

Not sure how I feel about Zakeri being scummy. He's an experienced player so obviously he knows that his case is shit and that people're going to slam him for it, so why make it at all? To declare it SCUMMIEST THING AROUND!! and immediately vote it without considering the implications feels lazy, and so I would like NeoSerela to recap why Zakeri's movement is more scummy than incrediderp.

I... don't know? 

...I guess he either thought it wasn't horrible or he's doing some gambit thing? But townie gambits generally are not good things to do. And I'd hope if he was town he'd know better then to think it wasn't bad. I guess it just seems more likely that he's scum and thought it was okay for some reason (maybe sleep deprived or lazy, but the latter is usually -me-) or is doing a gambity thing. If it's not either of those two things, it really just comes down to "Why make it at all?" like you said, and... that doesn't make any sense.

Incrediderp or gambit just doesn't seem like something that would come from Zak!town, or in general any reasonably sound-minded town player who doesn't have a role that warrants said gambit. And I'm not going to go around guessing that Zak has some role that gives him information on the first one to vote him.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
capt. H:Yes, it is unlikely to catch scum on D1, but you should still be at least trying to do so. Unlikely is not impossible, and not trying is anti-town. On a decent enough amount of the time I have seen scum lynched D1. Even if we don't catch scum, people genuinely trying to do so should help result in better information on later analysis-es of D1.

UK finds it interesting people didn't mention Zakeri. Does interesting equal scummy?

I wouldn't say it's scummy, but it's rather strange. Wouldn't you think it's odd if you pulled some lulzybad case out of the air and voted on it, and everyone completely ignored it? It's not scummy because it's the other people doing so, not Zakeri himself, it just kind of... baffles me.

[Kilgamayan]

Heading out for a few hours. Expect to discuss more than just this when I get home.

Serela: Does Incrediderp or gambit seem like something that would come from ScumZak? If so, why would it come from ScumZak and not TownZak?

[Shadoweh]

capt.h: The odds are against catching scum Day 1, but it does happen and has happened in the past. The thing about MotK's terribad hatred of newbie play is eventually one of the really does pull scum.
I'm extremely confused on what you think is a case against Conqueror. The posts of mine you've brought up clearly show I don't have a case on him and mention that I think PX is much worse right now. After questioning Affinity and reading over people's arguments with Conqueror I've decided their reasons for their cases don't ring as scummy. I simply disagree with them so far. Bad Posting Style does not equal Scum Posting Style.

You actually quoted my case against PX. "One blatantly blatant wagon hop onto the newbie and one post completely tunneling on his newbie vote target." After Post #135 I can add "Useless clarification of something that doesn't matter without answering any questions, addressing the rest of the game or being useful." Is that clearer?

I'm actually blatantly ignoring huh what until he reads over me and tells me why I'm so underwhelming because I'd really like to hear it from him.

[Shadoweh]

UK: I'm not saying everyone that posts alot is Town, but the LAL is strong in this one.

Oh, before I forget again, capt.h are you going to answer my question?

[UncertainJakutten]

Mm, prior experience? Admittedly, I'm not too hot on meta...

[Shadoweh]

Comparing GDC, in which he posted more and was put on the Day 1 Bus, to MRM in which he lurkscummed his way to Day 4, yes. Opinions may change depending on how he defends himself and the same goes to PX.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Currently catching up, but wanted to address this first:

Also you do realize you are criticizing the first "legitimate" ED1 case as "forced" and "bad", right? Every such case ever has been that way, short of a scum VI claiming scum. :C

I don't really know what to say to this other than that me misreading the circumstances of Bard's case (and the post in general) made me have higher expectations for it. I already realized this, hence why my vote is not on him anymore.

[Hanged Hourai]

6 pages? *cries in a corner*

Ok let's see here on some opinions.

capt. h-
Reads heavily as DERRRRRRP to me. Little conviction in his votes. I'm writing him off as an overeager town trying to contribute for the time being. A decent re-read will be in order later.

PX-
Literally jumps on wagon with, "I agree." Follows up with some newb grilling.
 I see this whole thing as easy target, going after the fruit on the low branches. And I'm also suspicious of the people who write him off as "That's just him." Other opinions than the newbie?

Conqueror-
Argh. Even after re-read, I am not sure where he stands on who's scum or not and why. Can you restate them for me? Pretty much everything else on him has been said already.

Colt-
Wat? You wanna play the game?

And my last point here, Zak

Hi there. He pops in to say why voting newbies is bad, and then points outs to UK that she is wrong in voting capt. h, when she isn't even voting him. And then he goes and throws a vote on Schezo because he played scummy last game in retrospect. What? How are you helping town by doing that. RVS is over and doing that cannot be considered hunting in the slightest.

##Unvote
##Vote: Zakeri

In summation, he has almost no opinions and is using his vote as a toy with no decent reasoning on someone who hadn't even checked in. Zak ducks out and hasn't followed up, leaving town to loldebateclub.  Can I get some actual opinions on people who are scummy?

[capt. h]

UK: I'm not saying everyone that posts alot is Town, but the LAL is strong in this one.

Oh, before I forget again, capt.h are you going to answer my question?

Your question was:

Do you know what alignment I am?

The answer is no, no I don't.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

I've been having the same feeling as Shadoweh and UK about Zak's vote, and I honestly have to say it kind of bugs me. Making a vote only to make a point does is not actually helping us catch scum, so if his vote is intended as bait then it had better be for really good reasons. I wouldn't be interested in voting him, though, as I personally feel scum would not use a gambit clearly made to draw attention to themself.

...Although, while I'm at it. His claim that he can not see scum!Conq is a little vague. Zakeri, why do you not feel Conqueror's posting is scumsourced?

As for the people voting Zakeri, Hourai suddenly jumping on the Zak wagon looks bad to me. I've already stated why I don't think Zak's votegambit is scummy in this particular scenario, and Zak did give more opinions than his Schezo vote. It should also be noted that his case on me disappeared completely with no explanation. I'm willing to give Serela a bit more grace in this area because he was the first to vote and did not completely drop any past opinions when voteswitching. Everything else out of Hourai seems like parroting to me.

... In fact, I think I'd be willing to see him hang (derp) for this. Still not the biggest Conq fan at all, but I can't have my vote in two places and Hourai making a post with absolutely nothing new before jumping on a particularly shaky wagon while also dropping his past convictions looks downright awful to me. Does he really not have anything original to contribute?

##Unvote
##Vote Hanged Hourai

This might just be an immediate reaction since he made his post while I was still rereading, but I personally think he looks pretty scummy.


Other stuff:
I like capt. h's points on Shadoweh and still need to re-read her to see if I agree with them. :effort:

The high concentrations of meta are pretty silly, and I do not agree that they apply to the Conqueror case. He was majorly grilled for being lurkscum last game, so it's not impossible that he could just be scum trying to change the way he plays. I don't really know, but I don't think it's a reason to discount him a potential scum.

I'm actually blatantly ignoring huh what until he reads over me and tells me why I'm so underwhelming because I'd really like to hear it from him.

I forgot you were playing until recently, and that's typically indicative of low presence which is not good. But I can be rather inattentive at times (see: the entire first half of my play so far), so it might just be the result of derp. I intend to re-read you after this post.

Huh What, why did you need to have a major epiphany before you concluded that your vote on me was, in fact, absolute crud?

I still really can't defend against this beyond "I was confused/wrong/derp/whatever and made a mistake". Most of my early holding on was in hopes that it would count as pressure but I guess that was made void by timezones. :x
As is, I don't really have anything against you, though I personally do not agree with your UK vote. I'll let her defend herself.

[Hanged Hourai]

Ah, the reason I dropped my previous vote on you was because you were voting Bard for trying to take us out of RVS, but with your new claim of accidentally misrepping him, it becomes very poor. And besides, I see scummier cases right now.

Original content? Let me wade through 6 pages and get back to you soon. Trying to get opinions out so we know where I stand.

[Prody]

Hur, being new and all, I lack confidence in my reasoning, which is why I prefer to wait until I see notable points to bring up. (none yet, everything up to now seems to be mainly composed of lashing at each other, is that normal here?)

To start off, what Zakeri said basically explains the situation. The whole newbie punishing things and all is what stuns me to speak up now, and I once again simply just require more information. Furthermore trying to figure out Zakeri's side just from experience from past games is also something that saddens me because there is nothing I can say about that.

Kitten4u has still yet to speak, and I want to see what he has to say both for himself and towards the current situation.

Votes seem to be heavy on Conqueror now but he hasn't woken up yet and I want to see what he says in response. The stuff brought up against conqueror both by Kilga and Affinity seem to be the most sound to me so far so I'm leaning towards voting him. (Then again, want to see what he says before I vote)

Even Bardiche is indecisive on who to vote!

[Kilgamayan]

Okay, with Iku out of the way for the evening, let's see if I can regather my thoughts here.

Reading Bard's case on UK looks fairly sound to me as far as D1 cases go, though it doesn't outweigh my feelings on the Conqueror case, who went from no apparent reason for his vote to needing multiple people asking him before producing a rather lackluster reason, one that could have been easily provided the first time I asked him. The delay there smacks of being something he had to make up in the face of dogged pursuit rather than what he actually feels.

Also worth noting is that one of the parts of UK case I buy into more - the pestering of an absent person - is also somewhat true of Shadoweh in regards to PX. That being said, capt. h's case on Shadoweh is not one I buy into, given I think Shadoweh's reasons are fairly obvious. There is something I would like Shadoweh to update, however:

I really want to vote PX for his idiot newbie bandwagon but I think he can't help but look like scum. You should get that checked. ... I think I'll make that a real vote for now and evaluate later.

How true does this whole sentiment still hold?

Uninterested in a Zakeri case, "weird" is not a valid reason to vote for someone imo and I can speculate a few reasons why TownZak might have done what he did (not that I will be providing them since they're Zakeri's countercase to make and I feel the reasons are far less readily available than reasons for Bard's Serela choice). Opinion of Serela is not improving. Opinion of Zakeri will, of course, drop considerably should he attempt to ride this out through the rest of the day, but I expect that will not happen.

I'm getting a sense that capt. h is more overeager than anything else. Not seeing much in the way of scumness there as a result. Currently uninterested in voting this way.

Colt: Votes are retractable! I would like to see a vote backed by opinions from you, instead of a journalistic account of events and things like "I want to wait and see before I vote for X". This is passive scumhunting, which is far less desirable than active scumhunting. Put the pressure on now, and if he happens to have a satisfactory defense later, there's no stopping you from parking your vote on someone else.

[UncertainJakutten]

The main thing about capt. h.'s Shadoweh case is it actually shows original thought and genuine trying, something that he had been lacking thus far. It had a few errors, but it still was a town motivated case. That's why I called it a good post.

To clarify, I've not found any real reason to suspect Shadoweh, but I also note that there have been more...glaring people that might be obfuscating my read.

And, yeah, Colt is not really making me happy, thus far. Still happy with Conquerer.

[PX]

I really want to vote PX for his idiot newbie bandwagon but I think he can't help but look like scum. You should get that checked. In general to everyone, last game was awesome but it isn't the only game in existence and is not the be all and end all of mafia situations. I think I'll make that a real vote for now and evaluate later.

##Unvote
##Vote PX

Jumping straight to me without mentioning anybody else. Also, you're just parking a vote so you can come up with a reason later?

Shadow's 96

What do you think about Bard then?

Everything Zak said about punishing newbies is true. I would also put Conqueror in the same easy town lynch category as capt.h . I don't know if Colt is new but his post is asking for it. I would like a better reason to vote for these three then 'their posts sound bad.' Note that I'm not voting him for time traveling powers, it was just weird enough to point out. I still expect a post from him on the matter.

Cut by.. Schezo. I'm not sure what you're getting at. PX has no content at all. Conqueror has more content right now at a glance by virtue of actually arguing his case with other people. No matter how scummy I think Conqueror is or isn't PX would rank on the bottom by default and I don't understand how there's a comparison. This applies to what I think of Affinity's post as well. You're also weirdly quoting my posts in ways that ignore the other people I was talking to in them. And.. I wasn't asking Conqueror to elaborate. I was joking that he sounded like his scum self.

Sorry I can't like, attack the entire game this time. Bard cut me by a few hours for mad anti-RVS shenanigans.

So.... You're essentially defending Conquerer and going straight after me with personal bias JUST because I have played more games than them. So you're cool with newb!scum getting through the game with a free pass because they're new?

To be fair to Conqueror, the scum in the other game accidentally said there were three scum. After a reread to confirm, I haven't seen anything in his posts yet that would make me suspect him. Conversely PX doesn't seem to feel the need to defend himself yet or comment on, say, not capt.h so I'm more comfortable with disagreeing on that point. \

Edit: Hi Colt if you could like exist and tell us what you think of people that would be great. Did you know capt.h isn't the only player in the game?

Defend myself? So you want me to defend myself from... nobody? Please, if you got anything on what I said, then make clearly state it.

Also, that "question" you wanted h. capt to answer so badly is absolutely stupid, pointless, and retarded. Do you REALLY think that would help ANYBODY at all?
Bardiche: Love his post

Zakeri's post I express the same feeling, but his Schezo vote baffles me.
h. capt: Huh... his case on Shadoweh makes sense.
Anyways, I was going to say something on the Conquerer wagon, but I accidently deleted that chunk of my post.... Orz, now I know how others feel when they do that... I'll just go post this now. Oh, before I forget
##Unvote
The accidently deleting has taken out a lot of desire for me to post right now
Fakeedit:NINJAS