GOD DAMNIT CHAORE Mafia (A.k.a. Mafia RPG!) - GAME OVER, SCUM WIN.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

I believe what he's saying is that PX isn't town.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

In fact.

Anybody up for a PX lynch? The mod essentially just implied that his kill is not in town's best interest, and his selfish shot (killing Hourai) makes him sound even more self-aligned. I would feel a lot safer about PX dying than reV dying, anyway.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Though, I'd prefer Zak die the most, if that's not clear from me not changing my vote. <_< I just think PX would be a better choice than reV.

[Schezo]

Yeah, what the hell is reV doing?  Coming up with insane ass theories and dodging questions.  Also, the way huh what has taken it feels like reV's gambit may be doing what he wants it to, sucking up to huh what to not get a vote from him, otherwise that would make no sense  to claim doctor as town but it does for scum .  His entire play just is Arg so yeah, he needs to die as he flat out admits again he is gullible for claims too but first.

With what huh what just brought up, I think a Zakeri lynch would give us more information to go off of.  It irks me that he still hasn't responded to anything and I can't tell where to go from here because a lot of stuff has been put up against him and we don't have an explanation from him yet.  I would like to see something.

I feel reV, Zakeri and PX all need to die at this point, PX gets no clear in Lou of what Chaore just explained.
 
edit:I'm still ready for a PX lynch wherever you guys what to do it.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Schezo: You do realize this is psuedo-LYLO, right? Informative lynches are probably not in our best interest here if PX chooses to fire.

[Schezo]

You know what yeah, we can't trust PX to keep his word that he won't nightkill tonight if we hit town, especially with:

Nighttime: Okay, I take back what I said. Who I shoot is my secret though :3

I'm willing to bet he is going to shoot someone tonight regardless of what happens so he can have a better chance to win.  We can't follow through with huh what's, "you will be lynched as soon as town can lynch non-scum without losing the game." unless we for sure hit scum today, and even then it's too late.  However if we get rid of this extra kill over night it will put us in two consecutive MYLO instead of a chance of for sure loss if we don't hit scum today.  This is all worst case scenario and that not a single scum gets hit today but it can still happen.

[PX]

##Unvote

No hammer for you Pesco

[reVelske]

Yeah, what the hell is reV doing?  Coming up with insane ass theories and dodging questions.

DODGING WHAT QUESTION? WHAT INSANE THEORIES? All my theories have got valid reasoning to them, if you want to argue them, ARGUE, not come shit on them and look away like Pesco. Oh wait, hi parrot-chan.

And what the hell, everyone wants a roleclaimed doc dead when there is next to no scum benefit to the claim and when he wasn't even under pressure. EVERYTHING IS BACKWARDS. MY MIND IS FULL OF FUCK.

Anyhow.

Hm, call me slow but, I'm needing a little explanation as to how you come to the conclusion that PX is the SK, since I don't really understand what Chaore just explained.

And also, I assume "Pseudo"-LYLO is pseudo due to what the SK/vig could do and scums could potentially mis-kill SK?

[reVelske]

The last bit of questions were for huhwhat, of course.

[PX]

Also, I am holding my damn shot.

[Schezo]

Well let's see. PX asks you a question and you insult him without a straight answer that you still haven't answered.  The scum benefit could be that that is so stupid that you want us all to just look away.  Another insane theory is that you want a pretty much proven SK to live and get away with another kill tonight.

cut by PX: and we are just supposed to believe you?

Let's look at it this way, worst case scenario :
We mislynch and hit a town today
Scum nightkills town
3rd party/vig nightkills town

town lost and we can't hold PX to his word.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

MYLO = LYLO would mean that even if we No Lynched, town could lose. Likely due to a SK screwing us over. Though, due to the possibility of the SK killing scum, it would really only be Potential LYLO. Maybe Chaore is just being a derp. <_<

It's likely we'll be better off if we stop playing the set-up. I still think PX is self-aligned, though.

Psuedo-LYLO is because if PX holds his shot after we lynch town then we'll still have enough players alive that scum won't outnumber all other factions. Though, it -would- result in D5 being a kingmaker in the best case scenario.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Kingmaker is the wrong wording.

Town vs. SK. vs Scum is what I mean. Basically, town can't win.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

...in that particular scenario, I mean. <__________<

[PX]

Also, he did answer. Just not as direct as I wished.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

By the way, how is reV wanting the SK to live any worse than Zak wanting us to save the SK for later? It's effectively the same thing as far as I'm concerned, except Zak has been more subtle about it.

[reVelske]

PX asks you a question and you insult him without a straight answer[/url] that you still haven't answered.

MY FUCK.

The scum benefit could be that that is so stupid that you want us all to just look away.

When nobody was really looking towards me and it was pretty obvious that Zak was heading for a lynch?

Another insane theory is that you want a pretty much proven SK to live and get away with another kill tonight.

Note how I've made no real comment on PX after huhwhat's explanation, but asked for an elaboration instead? And proven SK? Like hell would you have deduced that.

Try harder, scumface.

@huhwhat: Fair enough, though I'm still not absolutely certain if that is what Chaore meant (It sounded like him commenting about MYLO as a concept rather than in our scenario), but yeah well, far too over it to spend more time thinking on this, PX's insistence that there is no 3rd-party kinda reinforced your accusation. Isn't PX still relatively new? I also wouldn't be surprised if he's trying to more or less copy Affinity's semi-false claim from last game.

Not really sure what to do at the moment, ie. not certain if lynching the SK would be the better or worse option to take at this point, and I'm still not comfortable with Zak lynch. He needs to pop in to say something, along with Kitten. Pesco also needs to stop being a jerk.

[Kitten4u]

@huh what: Yes, Zak's case was one of the weirdest things I've ever read, but considering Zak hasn't looked scummy to me before that I'm at least willing to wait to see what he has to say.  Regarding the PX SK thing, I think you're reading too much into what Chaore's saying. x:  It says in the rules that town MUST lynch in LYLO so...

---

Here is why I don't think PX is SK.  First, having a SK that cannot shoot every night is just cruel (seriously, after playing one in MSR I know how friggin hard and annoying it is, and someone even asked Kilga if he planned to give my role to someone he hated, and I had a whole slew of other abilities).  Lying about not being able to shoot every night is just silly.  It makes winning considerably harder because you have to live longer, and just living as SK is really, really hard.  Second, as much as I hate to say it, I do find his target reasonable (if not hair-pull worthy).  I didn't see anything that would make me think that Kips was a bomb (for the record, the right way to play a bomb is to be extremely townie so you get NKed and if you fail at that it's to claim bomb so that town gets 2 lynches), but I'm willing to chalk him thinking there was up to inexperience (I don't think there has EVER been a bomb in an MotK game).  So, shooting someone that he found scummy as to not die seems reasonable to me.  And because no one else has claimed the Hourai kill I am willing to believe his claim and clear him.

Now, regarding Rev's claim.  That is a very convenient claim.  I do not believe it.  First, not only does town already have one investigative role, but there have been craptons of other PRs out there (spoilers, I have one too).  Second, his target makes no sense.  I don't really understand why he would pick PX over, say, Bardiche (who he himself said was a good NK target).  And saying that people weren't looking your direction is not true.  I am voting you, Zak is voting you, Pesco is looking in your direction, Schezo was looking in your direction...Yeah, clearly you had no chance of being lynched. :V

---

Yes, I do have a PR.  I'd like to keep it secret until tomorrow to keep scum in suspense, but I can claim now if absolutely necessary.

Also, regarding PX's vig.  If we lynch town today I think he should hold it, but if we lynch scum I think he should shoot.  At worst he kills a scummy townie (which is always good for town, but it's especially important in LYLO imo), and he may just off the other scum if he shoots.

Warning - while you were typing 8 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.

GDI

[reVelske]

It's like I staring at a wall of scums.

[reVelske]

Now, regarding Rev's claim.  That is a very convenient claim.  I do not believe it.  First, not only does town already have one investigative role, but there have been craptons of other PRs out there (spoilers, I have one too).

No arguments there, but, wouldn't it also reinforce the idea of a SK? To balance the roles out? Hell, without my role, it's still plentiful.

Second, his target makes no sense.  I don't really understand why he would pick PX over, say, Bardiche (who he himself said was a good NK target).

You must've forgotten how Bard and Pesco were my main suspects at the time, I said, based on player experience, people like Bard/Pesco/Zak should've been the first NK target, that's all there is to it. I, as stated, believed PX's claim wholeheartedly (reasons were given), and seeing how were were potentially heading into a MYLO/LYLO, it was better to have him around as our backup option. I honestly do not see what's so confusing about that choice of protection.

And saying that people weren't looking your direction is not true.  I am voting you, Zak is voting you, Pesco is looking in your direction, Schezo was looking in your direction...Yeah, clearly you had no chance of being lynched. :V

Eh, no Schezo wasn't? And I was in no shape or form under pressure or threat of being lynch, at the rate Zak was going.

Also, regarding PX's vig.  If we lynch town today I think he should hold it

ie. you believe that there ISN'T a 3rd party? I mean, you do understand that it's 3v1v2 if we lynch a town, and scum kills off huhwhat and it's game over? Right?

[Kitten4u]

No arguments there, but, wouldn't it also reinforce the idea of a SK? To balance the roles out? Hell, without my role, it's still plentiful.

SK tends to hurt scum more than help, so that wouldn't help with balance at all.

I honestly do not see what's so confusing about that choice of protection.

It confuses me because I think PX had almost no chance of being NKed.  He still looked fairly scummy, so even if people didn't think he was mafia they could still push that he is SK.  Hell, they might even think that he is SK and that would make them even less likely to shoot him since they tend to be bullet proof.

Eh, no Schezo wasn't? And I was in no shape or form under pressure or threat of being lynch, at the rate Zak was going.

Oh, I misremembered when he started to be suspicious of you.  My bad.  However, how you can look at this and say that you were not a viable lynch is beyond me.  You were totally the counter wagon to Zak.  (yes, I know that was the vote count after you claimed, but I believe the number of votes on each of the main wagons was the same because PX unvoted and HW voted).

ie. you believe that there ISN'T a 3rd party? I mean, you do understand that it's 3v1v2 if we lynch a town, and scum kills off huhwhat and it's game over? Right?

No.  If there is SK it has to be PX and I've already explained why I don't think he's SK.

So wait, do you believe there is a third party?  Who and what do you think it is?

[Schezo]

PX:In which post?  I'm having a hard time reading through his sarcasm.

HW:He's not.  Which is why I want both of them dead.  I posted that it may have been ok in my 286 as long as we hit scum for sure because I didn't think through what would happen if PX was left alive, other wise worst case scenario ensues and town loses.

But while we're at it, let me make my next point.  It is imperative for us to lynch PX today.  I find him SK because he killed one of the more active scum hunters at the time, even with his reason, which kinda made sense but it involved Kips so there's not much to go off of there.  But he has shown anti town play throughout the game by read: not doing anything.  It has been weak scum hunting at best with his one conviction post of Hourai but the rest of the game there hasn't been much of anything so, it's hurting town one in the same.  We really can't let him take out another townie tonight, regardless of what he says, because you know he won't say, "If we hit town, I'm going to shoot tonight m'kay!"  Even though that's exactly what he wants to do to get closer to his win condition which isn't in the favor of town.

If it wasn't for the obvious threat PX poses to town tonight you best believe I would be voting reV right now.  Your reasons for clearing everyone who comes forward with a claim is that you are a sucker for them, and the one you gave PX is that he attacked Hourai and then viged him?  Yeah, he could have planned that one out after he went after Hourai for semi-weak reasoning and then viging him in the night so as not to get much suspicion with his roleclaim which was bound to come out.  I also "deduced that" he's pretty much proven SK though I didn't say for sure he was, yet you just took that the extra yard; when, with what your posts are saying, you agree there is a 3rd party, yet I get the blame for it, for coming out and openly saying he's SK?

I also see the questions arising from people in that you were adamant on the first nightkills being experienced players, Bard/Pesco/Zak, why didn't you protect them because PX was getting crap from people earlier that day, making it really unlikely that PX would be the night kill over the people you claim it should have been.

hnng:cut by kitten

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

reV's PX protect seems fairly sensible when you consider that he was calling kips as the N1 kill. :|

[PX]

And fuck it, might as well roleclaim. I'm the Paladin, I can feel people up lay on hand on a player during night to prevent him from dying and reveal the attacker, I wasted the ability last night on PX.

reV, was your ability one-shot?

You know, if you just shut up about it, there'd been a chance of the scums offing me instead of you.

[reVelske]

SK tends to hurt scum more than help, so that wouldn't help with balance at all.

I suppose not, but the point of there being plentiful of roles as it is still stands. That's 5-6 roles and 2-3 vanillas regardless of the nature of our claims.

It confuses me because I think PX had almost no chance of being NKed.  He still looked fairly scummy, so even if people didn't think he was mafia they could still push that he is SK.  Hell, they might even think that he is SK and that would make them even less likely to shoot him since they tend to be bullet proof.

A matter of perspective, a vig, to me, is a wildcard, whereas townies can be manipulated, controlled and directed, scums have very little control over a vig unless they try order him around during day. When they are about to go into a MYLO/LYLO in a situation that is as comfortable as it is (of course, NOBODY EXPECTS THE HOLYWHAT INQUISITION), their only problem, their only blindspot, would be the vig.

You were totally the counter wagon to Zak.

Sure, after I took him off L1 just to have my own wagon built up, does that make us both scums? But wait, I was second on his wagon! How does that work?

Regardless, I still honestly don't see how most of you would've moved off Zak for me.

So wait, do you believe there is a third party?  Who and what do you think it is?

Oh no I totally don't believe there's a 3rd party, I've been ranting and raving about a 3rd party possibility since D2 just for shits and giggles. What makes it even better is how everyone except huhwhat took it as a fucking joke without even trying to discredit it with some logical explanation.

No, I have no clue who it is, and I'm not totally convinced PX's the SK either as stated few posts back, even less so now since your explanation against that theory does hold merit. Right now, I couldn't give a damn about who's the 3rd party, as far as I'm concerned, he's just another scum that needs to be lynched.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

reVelske: While you're here, why do you feel uncomfortable with a Zakeri lynch at this juncture?

There are more things I want to say about Zak and it's making me sad that everybody on his wagon jumped ship suddenly, but I'd like to see him get another post out before I make my move.

[reVelske]

Because how everyone else seem scummier and scummier to me the more they post (Schezo and Pesco mostly), this is why I'd really want to hear him say something.

And how quickly Zak reached L1 is alarming.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

How is it alarming? The only people who could really be considered as "pushing him to L-1" were you (second vote) and PX (third vote), and from your PoV one of those is town. You can't seriously think Pesco was attempting to push Zak to L-1 when he was only the first vote. If anything, you're the one who allowed it to happen. I'm a bit confused why you find it alarming as a result of this.

[reVelske]

Oh, right. All it took was three players to bring him to L1, thought it was at least four -_-. And yeah, no I did not bother to read back before posting that, said it just for the sake of making my post look a little more substantial than it really is.

No more post until I've had some sleep or until Zak posts I suppose seeing how I've been up all night and it's 8:34AM.

[PX]

huh what, you mixed up me and Pesco. I was first vote, Pesco was 3rd