Author Topic: GOD DAMNIT CHAORE Mafia (A.k.a. Mafia RPG!) - GAME OVER, SCUM WIN. (Read 45048 times)

PX · « **Reply #150 on:** February 13, 2011, 08:21:04 AM »

Don't worry, nobody should be stupid enough to somehow get 3 people to ninja hammer you in a span of a few hours when we have 2 days left.

WHMZakeri · « **Reply #151 on:** February 13, 2011, 09:52:32 AM »

Quote from: reVelske

##VOTE: PESCO

YOU! You got the face of someone who's ready to be lynched on day one! Submit to your fate!

But his face always looks like that.

Quote from: reVelske

not a big fan of Pesco's lack of activity and his half-ass attack on Conqueror, and GUT FEELING FUCK YEAH, so free vote for him.

...But his face always looks like that. :v

Quote from: Bardiche

Conqueror isn't on my hatelist because I've signed him off as derptown.

Except he is neither derp, nor town.

Quote from: Bardiche

I started disliking Zakeri around the time he began defending Kips by reporting, then clearing him based on non-descript conditions for "derptown VS derpscum". Also not fond of him saying "There's no reason to convince us Bard is scum" due to buddying up to me, and I don't like that.

Whoo, you clearly did not read my post. I was responding to Kitten4u, if that helps your reread.

Cat said "The difference she's noticed between derptown and derpscum, is that derptown is more likely to have convictions about a single person." Cat then went on to vote Kips for not having any convictions. I then went and pointed out all of the posts where Kips had shown evidence that he had strong convictions. This is what people call a "contradiction." The point of the post was that by her own analysis of derptown vs/ derpscum, she should have read Kips to be town, but instead ignored all of Kips posts, and focused only on what you accused Kips of doing.

Also, Buddying? Really? You're going to try and call me out on the fact that I claimed there was no legitimate case to be made on you? I suppose you also missed when your BFF Conq said the same thing in his IIoA against Kips?

Quote from: Bardiche

I'd rather not waste the town's lynch on someone who does not want to play the game, and had rather the mod deal with it, either by urging mudkips to start playing, by replacing, or by outright removing from the game.

I, wait-what? You want to lynch me instead because kips can't hunt scum? He's not going to get modkilled or replaced you know. He may have the problem of putting his emotional baggage on display in a game where you need to conceal your reactions and feelings, but I doubt he's going to just drop out of the game. That's just his way of dealing with the pressure of being at L-1 within 24 hours of the game. This looks to me like a half-assed excuse for switching your vote from someone who can't hunt scum to someone who can. This entire post has launched you up my lynch rankings to second place. Even higher than my initial suspicions of K4u.

Schezo · « **Reply #152 on:** February 13, 2011, 03:58:16 PM »

So anyways, this game is such a headache to read.

Hourai: Ok so reading you I'm getting a strange feeling with your association with kips. You were helping him earlier in the game, and finally decide to vote him, but your post doesn't have much conviction. Almost as if you wanted to help him but decided to pull out and slap a vote on him, least you start looking suspicious. You replied plenty of times to kips and finally decided to put your vote on him, but the reasons of your vote don't seem to point to him being scum, It feels like something else.

Kips: Is just a torrent of confusion that I would be willing to jump on at the end of the day.

Bard: I would like to know why Conqueror just got a clear from you.

Conqueror: Seems to be very dodgy in his first few posts. He has been passive-aggressive the whole time and tried to write some of the things he did off as contributing when he really didn't. After his big IIoA I find it hard to believe he didn't have an opinion on anyone else at the time after laying out all that information, which he confirmed later. That, and his actions just seem off because they aren't particularly attention grabbing but they aren't completely in the right either.

##Unvote:
##Vote: Conqueror

Pesco · « **Reply #153 on:** February 13, 2011, 05:38:51 PM »

I reread the thread and promptly forgot what I was going to post.

mudkips is still wrathie. It's a lot of derp but as long as he's not alive at LyLo, town's got this. Basically he'll screw up on his own if he's scum.

Conq putting the L-2 on mudkips feels pretty wrong. The post words it like a pressure vote and if we go by intentions, it's a weak one IMO. I get the feeling of throwaway vote from it. Compared to Kitten's L-1, she's given her reasons for the vote and I reckon as long as it wasn't the hammer, she'd vote mudkips no matter how many he had on him already.

Conqueror · « **Reply #154 on:** February 13, 2011, 08:51:33 PM »

@Pesco I am about to make a longer post after this, but before that, perhaps the post you were about to make but forgot about was on this topic:

Quote from: Inaba Tewi on February 13, 2011, 08:03:27 AM

No I don't. I should pull out my vig on you.

Is this some sort of joke?

Kips McKipzerson · « **Reply #155 on:** February 13, 2011, 09:00:17 PM »

Quote from: Inaba Tewi on February 13, 2011, 05:38:51 PM

I reread the thread and promptly forgot what I was going to post.

mudkips is still wrathie. It's a lot of derp but as long as he's not alive at LyLo, town's got this. Basically he'll screw up on his own if he's scum.

Conq putting the L-2 on mudkips feels pretty wrong. The post words it like a pressure vote and if we go by intentions, it's a weak one IMO. I get the feeling of throwaway vote from it. Compared to Kitten's L-1, she's given her reasons for the vote and I reckon as long as it wasn't the hammer, she'd vote mudkips no matter how many he had on him already.

Actually I'm always derpy on day one. Because theres no one to really vote or anything.
Also how the fuck arent I dead yet wat.

GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em · « **Reply #156 on:** February 13, 2011, 09:11:51 PM »

@ Schezo: Previously, you had your vote on kips because of kips' wishywashiness. What changed between then and your most recent post that made him seem okay? You never mentioned anything that indicated you find Conqueror worse than him, so the complete switch of attitude regarding kips feels a little bit jarring.

Pesco · « **Reply #157 on:** February 13, 2011, 09:31:55 PM »

Quote from: Conqueror on February 13, 2011, 08:51:33 PM

Is this some sort of joke?

Wanna rolefish?

Schezo · « **Reply #158 on:** February 13, 2011, 09:33:01 PM »

I didn't clear kips or anything if that's what you're thinking, he's still my 2. I don't know why you say I find him ok. Because he doesn't have my vote when I find another more scummy? I just found what Conqueror did a lot more alarming than what kips has been doing and he seems a lot more scummy to me right now to make me put my vote there.

GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em · « **Reply #159 on:** February 13, 2011, 09:35:38 PM »

Alright, noted. It's just that your post gave me the impression you were giving him a pass for being a "torrent of confusion".

Conqueror · « **Reply #160 on:** February 13, 2011, 09:37:15 PM »

Quote from: Inaba Tewi on February 13, 2011, 09:31:55 PM

Wanna rolefish?

Wanna answer Hourai's question?

Seriously, I don't know what kind of game you're trying to play. Threatening Kips with a joke in poor taste? Or are you making some sort of insinuation? What the hell is going on here?

Also, massive wall of text in process of being typed up, please wait warmly.

Hanged Hourai · « **Reply #161 on:** February 13, 2011, 10:04:20 PM »

Quote from: Schezo on February 13, 2011, 03:58:16 PM

Hourai: Ok so reading you I'm getting a strange feeling with your association with kips. You were helping him earlier in the game, and finally decide to vote him, but your post doesn't have much conviction. Almost as if you wanted to help him but decided to pull out and slap a vote on him, least you start looking suspicious. You replied plenty of times to kips and finally decided to put your vote on him, but the reasons of your vote don't seem to point to him being scum, It feels like something else.

Guys. Really? I'll say it again. I was helping a newb with the basics of the game. If you see fit to kill me over that, then fine.

As for the feeling you're getting, I don't know. I suppose I pity him and can sympathize about being a newb in a scary game of mafia, but that does not change certain actions of his.

But giving a final, unchanging gut vote is something I am not a fan of at all. And unvoting while channeling wrathie's spirit does not make me like him any more.

But for right now,

##Unvote

I am in no way clearing kips and I am hoping for a vig kill on him soon. If that doesn't occur, then I am indeed open to the idea of lynching him at the end of the day.

As of right now, I want to see Conqueror's text wall before I say anything else.

Kips McKipzerson · « **Reply #162 on:** February 13, 2011, 10:13:09 PM »

So wait, you go from helping me and defending me to being ready for me to be killed at the end of today JUST because it might make you seem scummy?

Seems a bit more scummy to me.

Conqueror · « **Reply #163 on:** February 13, 2011, 10:15:40 PM »

Quote from: iliekmudkips on February 13, 2011, 09:00:17 PM

Actually I'm always derpy on day one. Because theres no one to really vote or anything.
Also how the fuck arent I dead yet wat.

Because people have dismissed you as derptown based on this post and others. Regardless of whether you are scum or town, your play is generally anti-town because it is confusing and no one knows what to think of it. In any case, you could stop talking about how you're going to get lynched and start talking about why other people should be lynched instead.

Quote from: Inaba Tewi on February 13, 2011, 07:16:37 AM

Since you believe scum are getting him lynched, I'd like to believe scum aren't bussing one of their own. Why should scum be forced to sacrifice one of their players when there is no damning evidence? We don't have any hindsights at the moment, so I'm feeling your draw-to-attention of scum flying under the radar is fearmongering.

commenting on my quote:

Quote

The way the convo is going, everyone, including scum, can just criticize ilmk whlie flying under the radar themselves.

I said nothing of the sort. I said that given the ridiculous amount of attention on kips, anyone could just fly by criticizing kips without contributing much else. Said people could be scum or town. What I was suggesting was that people start looking at other votes besides just kips. Anyway, this seems to have already happened organically.

Quote from: Inaba Tewi on February 13, 2011, 07:16:37 AM

Guess what you were doing about your stance on mudkips? Passing crits and passing it off as contribution. Easily forgettable and doesn't tie yourself too strongly to what happens to him.

Let's take a look at Pesco's contributions so far.
#26: Joke vote.
#58: One liner questioning me on answering for kips.
#61: Throwaway comment.
#80: Repeats his point about me answering for Kips.
#84: Tells Kips to hang in there.
#87: "Sounds like you already clearing mudkips as town." Even though I was doing nothing of the sort.
#122: Pesco's first substantial post, where he again trots out the line where I said "The way the convo is going, everyone, including scum, can just criticize ilmk whlie flying under the radar themselves." It's a fair point which I have responded to above. The rest of the post consists of a prod at Kips and a throwaway comment aimed at reVelske.
#124: Answers huh what's query to Kips on roles, by stating the completely obvious. "No matter what the setup, if it's not an open one, never rely on there being any role." I'm pretty sure huh what knows this. What was the point of this post? Why did you answer for Kips?
#129: "I dunno. I think I made a step to deterring a pointless setup speculation debate." Except there was no speculation debate. There was a question aimed specifically at another user and for some reason you stepped in. You know, sort of like what you kept prodding me on.
#130: Complains about Sect being replaced.
#138: "mudkips is wrathie "
#141: "No I don't. I should pull out my vig on you." Either a joke in poor taste, or some sort of massive mindscrew I don't even know what. Is there something you're trying to imply here? Or were you just being crass to the newbie?
#147: Another one liner aimed at Kips. "Start posting sense then."
#153: Pesco's second "content" post. "Conq putting the L-2 on mudkips feels pretty wrong. The post words it like a pressure vote and if we go by intentions, it's a weak one IMO. I get the feeling of throwaway vote from it. Compared to Kitten's L-1, she's given her reasons for the vote and I reckon as long as it wasn't the hammer, she'd vote mudkips no matter how many he had on him already." --> I'm a cautious person by nature and I don't like going closer to the edge than is necessary. As I have stated before, I was not going to be one of the last two votes on a derp wagon where there were other people to be questioned, etc. In any case, this is a pretty weak post, IMO. Compare this to the votes on me from huh what and Zakeri, which were both more substantial than yours. What's more, Zakeri and huh what have scum hunted around other people besides me and Kips. You have not.
#157: Avoids the question, accuses me of rolefishing.

I know you're an experienced player, Pesco, but so far your contributions have been seriously lacking. Your attempts at scum hunting have consisted of half-assed questions aimed at Kips and, in my case, "passing crits and passing it off as contribution."
Are you just being lazy, or is something else up?
Also, do answer Hourai's question.

##Unvote
##Vote:Pesco

Pesco · « **Reply #164 on:** February 13, 2011, 10:28:25 PM »

Best way to answer such a question is with results.

Wall of linked posts, so what? All you've done is tried to buff up an OMGUS.

GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em · « **Reply #165 on:** February 13, 2011, 10:31:43 PM »

@ Conqueror: I seriously cannot draw any conclusion from that wall of links. It's pretty much more IIoA and if the links are meant as examples then they aren't really working, because I do not understand what you are trying to get across about Pesco. I'm not even sure how any of your complaints about him make him scum, because you didn't explain how his actions are actually scummy. It's just a bunch of reportering.

Personally, I've found Pesco's contributions to be fairly substantial, though it would be nice if he could talk about somebody other than Conqueror and kips.

Pesco · « **Reply #166 on:** February 13, 2011, 10:37:39 PM »

Kitten is lurkscum and my proxy for the bofh policy lynch at 3P-Lylo :V

Hanged Hourai · « **Reply #167 on:** February 13, 2011, 11:00:32 PM »

Quote from: iliekmudkips on February 13, 2011, 10:13:09 PM

So wait, you go from helping me and defending me to being ready for me to be killed at the end of today JUST because it might make you seem scummy?

Defending you? I have not told anyone else to not vote you or anything along those lines.
And I was ready for you to be killed when I first voted you.

*Conqueror Wall o' Text *

...So it's basically an OMGUS vote restating everything we've seen with some of your opinions? I'm not feeling it.
And why do you keep saying it's my question when you're the one who's been pursuing it more than me? Gives off the feeling that you want to know, but don't want to seem responsible for being the one having the person claim.

And on a reread, most of your game has been defense and minimal scumhunting. I don't like it and I get a scum feeling from it.

##Vote: Conqueror

3 replies
Yous guys be ninjas.

Conqueror · « **Reply #168 on:** February 13, 2011, 11:01:36 PM »

Quote from: Inaba Tewi on February 13, 2011, 10:28:25 PM

Best way to answer such a question is with results.

Okay? ??

Quote from: Inaba Tewi on February 13, 2011, 10:28:25 PM

Wall of linked posts, so what? All you've done is tried to buff up an OMGUS.

Nice, but I don't really care that you're voting for me. What I do care about is that you. an experienced player, are calling me out on not scumhunting properly when your scumhunting has been rather light. I'm also looking at several other players but they're more mixed bags, so making an opinion on them takes longer.

Quote from: huh what on February 13, 2011, 10:31:43 PM

@ Conqueror: I seriously cannot draw any conclusion from that wall of links. It's pretty much more IIoA and if the links are meant as examples then they aren't really working, because I do not understand what you are trying to get across about Pesco. I'm not even sure how any of your complaints about him make him scum, because you didn't explain how his actions are actually scummy. It's just a bunch of reportering.

What would you have me say then? That I think Pesco is scummy because of such and such conjecture or because I have a GUT FEELING? I gave my opinions in the post above. What kind of convoluted stuff do I have to say for it not to be classified as IIoA or reportering?

Quote from: huh what on February 13, 2011, 10:31:43 PM

Personally, I've found Pesco's contributions to be fairly substantial, though it would be nice if he could talk about somebody other than Conqueror and kips.

The problem is that he hasn't talked about any other people, and for the two people he has talked about, his contributions are hardly pioneering nor especially probing. He doesn't really give any strong opinions, preferring to question others without passing some sort of judgement, save for his vote on me. His post at #153 where he "analyzes" me barely makes sense. Also, it would be nice if he didn't just off-handedly classify my post as OMGUS without responding to any of the few points that I tried to make in that post. I want substantial posts like the one huh what just posted, not one-liners.

Yes, I am probably guilty of the same thing that I am accusing Pesco of. But Pesco is not a relative newbie to the game, Compare his contributions to those of any of the other "regulars." Why does he get a pass?

Serela · « **Reply #169 on:** February 14, 2011, 02:13:48 AM »

Vote Count- The Spiritual Descendant of Wrathie Is Revealed (and then mass unvoted)

Conqueror- Bardiche, Pesco, Huhwhat, Zakeri, Schezo, H.Hourai
Iliekmudkips- Schezo, Zakeri, Conqueror, reVelske, Bardiche, Huhwhat, H.Hourai, Kitten4U, Sect
Bardiche- Conqueror, Sect, Iliekmudkips, Zakeri, reVelske
Pesco- reVelske, Conqueror
Zakeri- Bardiche
H.Hourai- Golden PX, iliekmudkips
Huh what- Hanged Hourai
Kitten4u- Pesco
reVelske]- Zakeri, Bardiche

There are 29 hours left in Day 1. Conqueror is at L-2.

Kips McKipzerson · « **Reply #170 on:** February 14, 2011, 02:28:47 AM »

Still dunno who wrathie is.

GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em · « **Reply #171 on:** February 14, 2011, 02:34:37 AM »

From what I gather, he is a notorious player from before your time (and also from before mine).
Pesco linked to a game he was in.

Kitten4u · « **Reply #172 on:** February 14, 2011, 03:23:06 AM »

Tired. Sorry if this is incoherent.

Quote from: Pesco

Kitten is lurkscum and my proxy for the bofh policy lynch at 3P-Lylo

B-but.

~~You can hardly blame me for wanting to lurk/play DotS in this game.~~

Quote from: Zakeri

:wikipedia:

Um...I suppose it's nice that he passes your conviction test? He does not pass mine. Tunneling relentlessly on someone for no apparent reason is not conviction. Voting for reasons that look more like what he should do if it was the end of the day and the two main wagons were him and Bardiche is not conviction. This is not conviction. This is not conviction. This is not conviction. Do I really need to go on? I have no reason to believe that he really thinks Bard is scum. It all feels very fake to me.

I'm very disappointed that the wagon on him has completely dissolved even though he hasn't really done anything to redeem himself. There has only been flailing. He has spent the whole game being more concerned about looking scummy rather than finding scum. He has spent the whole game telling people to get off his wagon without presenting a decent alternative, or even trying to look for scum. The closest was the thing with Bard, but even that looks horribly fake (just look at how he words his arguments) and Hourai (for helping...and the vote was the wishy-washiest thing ever, so this vote also looks fake). The fact that his wagon dissolved in an instant and a lot of people are cheerleading it anyway is making me feel a lot more confident about his alignment as well. It is nice to see that it looks like he is at least willing to try again though. Please read through the game again with this in mind: there are (generally) two factions in a game of Mafia: the town and the mafia. The town wants to find the mafia and get them lynched. The mafia wants to get any townie lynched and they want to avoid getting them and their buddies lynched. Look through peoples' posts and try to figure out why they said the things they said. Mafia is not a random game of probability, it's a game of psychology and reading. Start playing it. This is why I said you gave up before. It doesn't matter if you keep posting if you stop thinking.

Everyone else: can you explain why Kips isn't scum? I understand that his play has been...rather odd to put it mildly, but I feel like all of you are dismissing him as too scummy to be scum.

---

Conqueror's recent posts have been unimpressive. The overly wordy OMGUS case is pretty bad. Rolefishing is also bad. I'm not understanding his case as I've been fine with Pesco's content so far. Willing to vote for him.

Hourai's unvote of Kips is bothering me. Not just because I think Kips is extremely likely to be scum, but because it was done for no apparent reason, there was no revote, and the timing of it is a little strange (Kips wagon almost gone, Conqueror wagon taking off). I was happy with is content before then (well, the rolefish is questionable), so I'm not really getting this. Not willing to lynch him right now, but that post bothers me a lot.

Quote from: Schezo

That, and his actions just seem off because they aren't particularly attention grabbing but they aren't completely in the right either.

I don't understand what you mean by this. Can you elaborate?

I feel like I'm forgetting something, but I can't remember what it is. I'll skim the thread again to see if I can remember.

Hanged Hourai · « **Reply #173 on:** February 14, 2011, 04:03:36 AM »

Quote from: Kitte[Z]4u on February 14, 2011, 03:23:06 AM

Hourai's unvote of Kips is bothering me. Not just because I think Kips is extremely likely to be scum, but because it was done for no apparent reason, there was no revote, and the timing of it is a little strange (Kips wagon almost gone, Conqueror wagon taking off). I was happy with is content before then (well, the rolefish is questionable), so I'm not really getting this. Not willing to lynch him right now, but that post bothers me a lot.

I still want him dead. I'm hoping that a vig will do the job and we can focus on others, but if that doesn't happen, then I am very open to lynching kips.

And Conqueror moved up my scumlist with his flimsy rolefish. And then when Pesco called him out on it, he promptly started saying Pesco was ignoring me, conveniently forgetting that he was the one to bring it up.

And before someone says, "But you were the first one to bring it up! bluh bluh bluh"
It wasn't a serious question. I was going wtf? from kips's wishywashy voting and unvoting. Everything was headacheingly going too fast.

So yes, I changed votes because someone got scummier to me. I didn't immediately revote after unvoting because I was specifically waiting for a good explanation from Conqueror, which I didn't get. The timing was coincidence TBH.

Kips McKipzerson · « **Reply #174 on:** February 14, 2011, 06:27:13 AM »

Um, excuse me?
How does someone become more scummy then I am in your eyes? According to you all, All I've posted is senseless dribble that makes me seem guilty of everything, yet somehow someone whos only posted a few times is more scummy then me? And what about YOU? "Oh durr i'm fine with kips dieing durr". (dies next night) "OHEY LETS LYNCH HOURAI."

I thought you were pro, bro/sis.

GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em · « **Reply #175 on:** February 14, 2011, 07:08:43 AM »

Who was that aimed towards, kips? I really can't tell.

Kips McKipzerson · « **Reply #176 on:** February 14, 2011, 07:12:04 AM »

Was aimed towards hourai.

Kips McKipzerson · « **Reply #177 on:** February 14, 2011, 07:12:54 AM »

Aw shit, what I meant to say was:
"It was aimed towards hourai.

I'm also pretty fucking tired right now, so I might go to sleep soon".
Apparently the post cut off for whatever reason. The sites being a dick to me.

GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em · « **Reply #178 on:** February 14, 2011, 07:13:29 AM »

Hourai isn't really pro. This is his second game, I believe.

WHMZakeri · « **Reply #179 on:** February 14, 2011, 08:05:39 AM »

RE:K4u
Yes, There are a hundred textbook reasons for why everyone should vote for Kips, but the thing is here, because there are so many textbook reasons compared to actual reasons, The case on Kips can very easily be faked. Even those who are scum can jump on it with little to no consequence provided they give a large enough portion of reasons.

The Conqueror case however, is pretty much exactly the same as the case on Kips. Lack of Conviction, standing by the sidelines and cheering on their favorite lynch, voting and unvoting when provoked by other townies. The only difference however is that Conqueror is staying in the shadows trying to be ignored, while Kips is in the foreground, trying to be heard and understood even though he has no idea how to get people to understand him. This is primarily why I'm being so warey of K4u.

more importantly, I would much, much prefer a Conqueror lynch over a Kips lynch because of the information inherit in those lynches. With Conqueror's flip, I can use that to determine Bard's alignment by a lot, Hourai's alignment by a bunch, and K4u's alignment by a little, etc. etc. Meanwhile, with Kips' flip, all I'll learn about the interactions that happened on day one will come from whoever gets nightkilled.

Of course I don't want someone as emotionally charged as Kips having having a vote in Lylo, but I also don't want there to be a lynch based seemingly solely on the emotional charge he's giving to other people as a result.

Quote from: iliekmudkips on February 14, 2011, 06:27:13 AM

Um, excuse me?
How does someone become more scummy then I am in your eyes? According to you all, All I've posted is senseless dribble that makes me seem guilty of everything, yet somehow someone whos only posted a few times is more scummy then me?

Critical thinking is the key to success.
Open-mindedness is one of the key values of Critical thinking.

The ability for people to change their mind is a gift. One that can be used to help us lynch scum instead of forcing us to lynch the first person that says something we don't like.

Please tell me if knowing this fact helps you understand. You don't have to punish people for not having lynched you despite being voted to L-1.