Author Topic: Keep reading the news!  (Read 52546 times)

Wark

Re: Keep reading the news!
« Reply #270 on: February 03, 2011, 10:51:02 AM »
If there are regime changes in Yemen and Egypt, the US will probably come away from that with two new allies in the region, when all is said and done.

Umm, I probably would not dare to say that Egypt would be a "new" ally for the US. For example, "Since 1979, Egypt has been the second-largest recipient, after Israel, of U.S. foreign assistance." It received $1.3 billion in military aid annually since 1987. If Egypt was not considered to be an ally, then why would the US want to pump such amounts of money into it? Moreover, Egypt was named Major non-NATO ally in 1989.
Also, Egypt: Background and U.S. Relations makes quite an interesting read on this topic.

Tengukami

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Re: Keep reading the news!
« Reply #271 on: February 03, 2011, 11:51:22 AM »
Umm, I probably would not dare to say that Egypt would be a "new" ally for the US. For example, "Since 1979, Egypt has been the second-largest recipient, after Israel, of U.S. foreign assistance." It received $1.3 billion in military aid annually since 1987. If Egypt was not considered to be an ally, then why would the US want to pump such amounts of money into it? Moreover, Egypt was named Major non-NATO ally in 1989.
Also, Egypt: Background and U.S. Relations makes quite an interesting read on this topic.

Thanks, I'm aware of this. But giving aid to a country is not a sign that this country is an ally. The US has given aid to the former Soviet Union at a time when they were sworn enemies, and has been giving assistance to North Korea. Relations between the US and Egypt has been tense at best lately, as the US supports Israel, and recent conflicts in the Gaza Strip has left Egypt to clean up after refugees pouring across the border. The US and Egypt, in other words, are not allies per se but rather in a tenuous state of "it would benefit neither of us right now to attack each other, but we're not exactly pals when it comes to foreign policy".

Furthermore, when a government is overthrown, the country has changed. The old regime, and the old country, exists no more. The uprisers will win in Egypt, and when that happens, Egypt will be a new country. Supporting the uprisers now helps the US have a new ally in the region, in the form of Egypt's new leadership.

But hey, fuck Egypt and Yemen - haven't you people heard Canadians might have to deal with a slower internet?!

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

andrewv42

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Re: Keep reading the news!
« Reply #272 on: February 03, 2011, 02:22:24 PM »
I really don't like how just about every television news channel is broadcasting extended coverage on Egypt whenever I try to watch them, now.
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Conqueror

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Re: Keep reading the news!
« Reply #273 on: February 03, 2011, 02:25:16 PM »
I really don't like how just about every television news channel is broadcasting extended coverage on Egypt whenever I try to watch them, now.

Well, you know, they're overthrowing a major government there. News networks haven't had news this big in a while.


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Re: Keep reading the news!
« Reply #274 on: February 03, 2011, 02:27:03 PM »
I really don't like how just about every television news channel is broadcasting extended coverage on Egypt whenever I try to watch them, now.

I know right? It's just a popular uprising in a totalitarian country that's lived under strongmen since the Ottoman Empire, and might have regional implications that could change world history. BO-RING!

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

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Re: Keep reading the news!
« Reply #275 on: February 03, 2011, 02:53:38 PM »
Wait. Wait wait wait wait wait. Just hold on a sec and let me get this straight.

A government did something...good?

This is just way too much for me to take in all at once :ohdear:

Surprising eh?

Now I have faith in Canada once again <3

andrewv42

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Re: Keep reading the news!
« Reply #276 on: February 03, 2011, 04:04:06 PM »
I know right? It's just a popular uprising in a totalitarian country that's lived under strongmen since the Ottoman Empire, and might have regional implications that could change world history. BO-RING!

I'm sorry if I presented myself as ignorant; I don't mean to say the whole affair is not significant, because it very certainly is. It's very irritating for me, though; my father frequently has the news on, and my family lives in an apartment, so unless I shut the door and fortify it with sound-proof insulation, I'm going to be hearing that stuff for a large portion of the day. I also find repetition to be particularly tiring; I deplore a routine. I just wish that more than none of the news channels could make an endeavoured attempt at variety under this circumstance.
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Re: Keep reading the news!
« Reply #277 on: February 03, 2011, 04:21:05 PM »
In his defense, watching live TV coverage of an event where they don't actually have live TV coverage means they rehash the same stuff all day until some new development occurs.  I'd rather just get an RSS feed or check the news every hour or two.

Tengukami

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Re: Keep reading the news!
« Reply #278 on: February 03, 2011, 04:34:36 PM »
Oh you're not obliged to be interested or anything, just explaining why the news is all over this.

The Middle East has not always had the borders that it does. Most of these were put in place by the British, at times arbitrarily, without any regard to tribal, religious, ethnic or linguistic differences (T.E. Lawrence, a.k.a. Lawrence of Arabia, actually did draw up a map of the Middle East in accordance with what he saw were tribal boundaries, but British authorities rejected the idea, despite the fact that Lawrence was probably the most knowledgable Brit on the Middle East at the time). This, and the creation of Israel (or rather, how that country was created), have set the tone for the way the Middle East not only deals with the West, but with its own affairs.

Shortly after the British left, most of these countries adopted some form or another of totalitarian rule, whether theocracies or dictatorships. Colonialisation has a way of stunting the growth of a country - take a look at any given country in Africa to see what I mean - and in this age of remarkably easy communication and exchanging information, more Middle Easterners are finding it easier to network, exchange ideas, discuss and organize.

What we are witnessing right now, from Tunisia to Egypt to Yemen and to an extent, Iran (the outrage over the presidential elections isn't over by a long shot) is a cultural revolution, where ordinary people at the grassroots level are organizing and mobilizing to overthrow their governments. We saw something similar a couple years back in the Ukraine, Georgia and Kyrgyzstan; places where there was at least a semblance of democracy. Those were applaudable uprisings but not entirely surprising.

Here, though, in the Middle East, we're seeing people rise up against totalitarian regimes, disavowing violence to achieve those ends, and religious fundamentalists appear to be largely pushed out of the greater portion of participation. This is everything Westerners have wanted to happen in the region, and it's happening without our "help" or intervention. It is more than "significant"; it is a history-changing, global event. That's why the whole world is watching.

While our Canadian friends here baw about corporate traffic throttling, Egypt has had no internet at all. They've been organizing with the help of text messaging and fax machines. Ordinary, unarmed people are facing down live ammunition, tear gas, imprisonment and torture. As someone who watched the Berlin Wall being torn down and communism collapse, I believe this is probably one of the most significant events of the past 20 years, no matter how it ends up playing out.

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

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Re: Keep reading the news!
« Reply #279 on: February 03, 2011, 04:43:58 PM »
Okay, I understand that this is a huge important event in history, but that doesn't mean it's okay to demean other news stories that people may be interested in. This isn't a competition over which event is more newsworthy, no more than the rage thread is a competition of who has the shittier life.
[22:40:12] <Drake> "guys i donwloaded esod but its not workan"
[22:40:21] <Drake> REPORTED
[22:40:25] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> PROBATED
[22:40:30] <Drake> ORGASM
[22:40:32] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> FUCK YEAH

[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"

Gpop

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Re: Keep reading the news!
« Reply #280 on: February 03, 2011, 06:48:24 PM »
Yeah, moreso the Canadian thing is something that Canadians and others found much more important than Egypt because it was affecting us DIRECTLY, which is why it was our main focus rather than the Egypt situation.

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Re: Keep reading the news!
« Reply #281 on: February 03, 2011, 06:51:51 PM »
All right, there's no need to further the issue at this point. People will think whatever they want about which news events are more important. Let's get back to actually discussing said events. If there's still an itch to scratch about how x is more important than y, please take it to a private medium.

This goes for both sides.
[22:40:12] <Drake> "guys i donwloaded esod but its not workan"
[22:40:21] <Drake> REPORTED
[22:40:25] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> PROBATED
[22:40:30] <Drake> ORGASM
[22:40:32] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> FUCK YEAH

[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"

Edible

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Re: Keep reading the news!
« Reply #282 on: February 03, 2011, 07:09:13 PM »
Daniel Snyder, owner of the Washington Redskins, sues a reporter for doing his job.

Even if you're not an NFL fan, I recommend the below article for hilarity purposes.  It's fun learning how comically evil Dan Snyder is.

http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/articles/40063/the-cranky-redskins-fans-guide-to-dan-snyder/

Tengukami

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Re: Keep reading the news!
« Reply #283 on: February 03, 2011, 07:27:50 PM »
Okay, I understand that this is a huge important event in history, but that doesn't mean it's okay to demean other news stories that people may be interested in. This isn't a competition over which event is more newsworthy, no more than the rage thread is a competition of who has the shittier life.

I get this and all, and was just poking fun at the fact that this thread was rapidly becoming the Canada Internet Crisis thread, that's all. Consider it dropped.

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

Wark

Re: Keep reading the news!
« Reply #284 on: February 03, 2011, 08:40:07 PM »
What we are witnessing right now, from Tunisia to Egypt to Yemen and to an extent, Iran (the outrage over the presidential elections isn't over by a long shot) is a cultural revolution, where ordinary people at the grassroots level are organizing and mobilizing to overthrow their governments. We saw something similar a couple years back in the Ukraine, Georgia and Kyrgyzstan; places where there was at least a semblance of democracy. Those were applaudable uprisings but not entirely surprising.

It should be noted though that only Ukraine's "Democracy score" (According to Freedom House's Nations in Transit 2010 report) has improved since the Orange revolution of 2004 (4.88 in 2004 vs 4.39 in 2010, the lower the better). Georgia's score was 4.83 in 2003 when the revolution took place; in 2010 it was 4.93. Kyrgyzstan's score was 5.64 before the Tulip revolution, 6.21 now. Georgia is considered to be partly free, while Kyrgyzstan is still regarded as non-free state.

I just want to say that it is not enough to overthrow the current government, there must be some force that is ready to take its place and lead the country to improvement. Sometimes this force may not be present; sometimes it will fail to meet the expectations of the people, and in this case we are likely to see the repetition of Kyrgyzstan's scenario (namely, the Second Kyrgyz Revolution that took place in 2010). Hopefully such force does exist in Egypt.

Spoiler:
Hope it does not sound as if I'm stating the obvious things in a self-satisfied and inflated way...
[/size]
« Last Edit: February 04, 2011, 09:55:26 AM by Wark »

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Re: Keep reading the news!
« Reply #285 on: February 05, 2011, 02:29:37 AM »
I stand by the position of 'America and other western nations quite simply needs to get their hands outta the way' and let this Egypt shift of power/movement deal with it with their own people and government. Pressures only work so much as 'positive encouragements' for a direction that I deeply feel is a part economic interests which western and other nations can benefit from this in the end. The way I see it, since MB has seemed to have very little interest so far in the issue, we more or less can expect after the fire and brimstone protests and movements, a moderate government might appear. That is always good, but what is better would be they bow to no economic or western interests, and especially the zeal to 'promote' Israel interests.
 (if Baradei gets up the pedestal it would be a welcome imo.)

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Spoiler:
I just don't like nations which have progressed from survivalist type nations (Israel being surrounded by Muslim nations) to big bullies of the middle east. I hope whatever government that comes up after this gives a kick to the balls to Israel.
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Re: Keep reading the news!
« Reply #286 on: February 05, 2011, 07:19:22 AM »
What Israel needs to do is grow up and treat the Muslim population as people instead of free labor and presumed terrorists to kill and rob whenever one of them acts up. I'm not sure threats or opposition backed with more powerful force would encourage that - in fact, I doubt it.  Since the US (and other countries) seem to be considering reducing foreign aid due to the economy, making that a conditional to keep receiving funds sounds like a much better idea. But oh no, that would be anti-Semitic! Sheesh.

As for the Egypt thing? I want to call out Mubarak on claiming that his stepping down would lead to 'chaos' - but that he would be the one causing that chaos, if the presence of his loyal police forces as 'counter-protesters' and looters (with surprisingly good organization and, uh, weaponry) is any indication. I'm waiting for someone to call him out on causing having in order to be able to claim he's the only one that can stop it.
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hyorinryu

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Re: Keep reading the news!
« Reply #287 on: February 05, 2011, 10:14:00 PM »
Daniel Snyder, owner of the Washington Redskins, sues a reporter for doing his job.

Even if you're not an NFL fan, I recommend the below article for hilarity purposes.  It's fun learning how comically evil Dan Snyder is.

http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/articles/40063/the-cranky-redskins-fans-guide-to-dan-snyder/

That was tons of fun. Here's what Gene Weingarten had to say on the subject and this is him discussing it.


btw, shouldn't Egypt get it's own thread? People are probably going to talk about it for a while. It's probably recieved more posts than a few that did.

*currently under repair*
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E-Nazrin

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Re: Keep reading the news!
« Reply #288 on: February 05, 2011, 10:34:28 PM »
Probably a good idea, actually. Especially if it can be extended to a discussion of the broader mideast uprisings that Tunisia provoked.
There was something here once. Wonder what...

Tengukami

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Re: Keep reading the news!
« Reply #289 on: February 06, 2011, 09:53:43 PM »
Hope it does not sound as if I'm stating the obvious things in a self-satisfied and inflated way.

I wouldn't say it's obvious but it doesn't contradict anything I said about the situation. You're just adding additional information, which is fine. Nothing self-satisfied or inflated about that.

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

dustyjo

Re: Keep reading the news!
« Reply #290 on: February 07, 2011, 09:37:29 AM »
Yeah, "I promise not to run for office at the end of my term" is not going to satisfy people once you've shut off their internet, shot them with rubber bullets and gassed them. It's a step in the right direction, though.

I believe you mean real bullets. They've also been mowing down civilians with cars.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2011, 09:56:55 AM by dustyjo »

Tengukami

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Re: Keep reading the news!
« Reply #291 on: February 07, 2011, 11:25:24 AM »
They are now, yes.

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

Gpop

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Re: Keep reading the news!
« Reply #292 on: February 07, 2011, 03:56:51 PM »
I believe you mean real bullets. They've also been mowing down civilians with cars.
Have you seen the video on Youtube of a diplomatic car doing so? It's quite horrifying...

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Re: Keep reading the news!
« Reply #293 on: February 07, 2011, 05:18:30 PM »
Oh hey, Germany now decided to stop delivering weapons to Egypt. A bit late there, as usual, but okay.
However, what the hell is up with the idea to give Mubarak a stay here for "medical examination and treatment"? Are we a holiday resort for failed despots?

I would like to apologize for my country, I have no idea what those people are thinking >_>

Iryan

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Re: Keep reading the news!
« Reply #294 on: February 07, 2011, 07:31:36 PM »
Oh hey, Germany now decided to stop delivering weapons to Egypt. A bit late there, as usual, but okay.
However, what the hell is up with the idea to give Mubarak a stay here for "medical examination and treatment"? Are we a holiday resort for failed despots?

I would like to apologize for my country, I have no idea what those people are thinking >_>
Reminds of how Volker Pispers mused on Putin getting invited to Schr?der's birthday party... 0:20 - 1:20

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Re: Keep reading the news!
« Reply #295 on: February 09, 2011, 04:16:48 AM »
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[23:16] <MaullarMaullar> well
[23:16] <MaullarMaullar> looks like that case was a... shoe-in
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Iryan

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Re: Keep reading the news!
« Reply #296 on: February 09, 2011, 05:55:26 PM »
So supposedly Berlusconi had sexual relations with an underage girl and then used his relations to try to obfuscate this...

(my only link would be to a German news broadcast video, sorry)
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Edible

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Re: Keep reading the news!
« Reply #297 on: February 09, 2011, 06:00:02 PM »
Yep, those are the allegations.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110209/wl_nm/us_italy_berlusconi

Completely unsurprising.  Also, despite 782 pages of evidence, the trial will likely be thrown out.

Dead Princess Sakana

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Re: Keep reading the news!
« Reply #298 on: February 09, 2011, 06:13:07 PM »
Quote
>Prosecutors accuse Berlusconi of paying for sex with a nightclub dancer when she was under 18, which is against the law in Italy.
So, does that mean being a nightclub dancer while under 18 is okay in Italy though? O___O

But yeah, not too surprised that at some point during his orgies he would end up with a slightly too young girl. And not gonna be surprised if exactly nothing happens to him, as usual. >_>

Conqueror

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Re: Keep reading the news!
« Reply #299 on: February 09, 2011, 09:58:58 PM »
Oh yeah, this was the bunga bunga case wasn't it.

Edit: Didn't he just scrape through a vote of confidence or something a few months back? I wonder what would happen if Berlusconi somehow got convicted and Italy's government collapsed.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2011, 10:06:10 PM by Conqueror »


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