Iku Quest - A Z-Machine Adventure

[Fightest]

>Hang on a moment

Do you honestly think any of that will go over with Remilia at all? I can only see this making things more unpleasant between her than they already are.

You seem to pick the oddest times when to hit and when to fold, I feel. For example, we did not need to aggress those fairies at all, earlier, and yet they got zapped. On the other hand, we need to establish a firm stance here, or Remilia will just think she'll be able to walk all over us in the future.

[DracoOmega]

You seem to pick the oddest times when to hit and when to fold, I feel. For example, we did not need to aggress those fairies at all, earlier, and yet they got zapped. On the other hand, we need to establish a firm stance here, or Remilia will just think she'll be able to walk all over us in the future.

We started off the encounter with the fairies as friendly and un-hostile as possible, and spent like 15 posts talking to them until they opened fire on us of their own accord, while we were trying to leave, which is about as un-hostile an action as you can take after all that. And once they'd started shooting, they didn't seem too inclined to listen to anything else we had to say. We did try again afterwards, if you note. I hardly think you can count what we did as 'aggress' them, given how it played out.

And frankly, Remilia feels she has the right to walk over pretty much anyone in her home territory. She's a queen in her own mind. We asked they be treated fairly, and she took offense to the implication that she would even consider not doing it. She feels she's being more than gracious as it is. Making demands of her on top of that, no matter how reasonable they seem to us, are likely not only to be denied, but to offend her for the pretension that we were in a position to make them. And, we'd be denying the value of her word again, which is a big no-no when we're in such a poor bargaining position.

Additionally, I tend to think the dance contest idea would seriously rub her the wrong way. If we're lucky.

For what it's worth, I actually believe Remilia at her word in this instance. She does have a certain reputation she likes to preserve about being gracious and all. I don't think they'll come to harm beyond indentured servitude, which she's certain not to relent on at this point, in either case.

[Fightest]

And frankly, Remilia feels she has the right to walk over pretty much anyone in her home territory. She's a queen in her own mind. We asked they be treated fairly, and she took offense to the implication that she would even consider not doing it. She feels she's being more than gracious as it is. Making demands of her on top of that, no matter how reasonable they seem to us, are likely not only to be denied, but to offend her for the pretension that we were in a position to make them. And, we'd be denying the value of her word again, which is a big no-no when we're in such a poor bargaining position.

Remilia is 75% posturing. That is what she does, and I would imagine she's well-aware of this. When it comes down to the chase, I am quite confident that she is able to adopt a more pragmatic attitude. This "Remilia Scarlet is anything other than a gracious captor" and her word and everything are only as good as we make them be.

For that matter, we have an amazing bargaining position - we can have the Celestials leave. We are enough of a challenge to keep Remilia and Sakuya off them for as long as it takes the Celestials to scatter, leaving Remilia with nothing. Remilia no doubt knows this as well.

Additionally, I tend to think the dance contest idea would seriously rub her the wrong way. If we're lucky.

I disagree. Remilia is vain, and will most certainly jump at challenges. Dance, being a common aristocratic pastime, is certainly something she could get behind.

For what it's worth, I actually believe Remilia at her word in this instance. She does have a certain reputation she likes to preserve about being gracious and all. I don't think they'll come to harm beyond indentured servitude, which she's certain not to relent on at this point, in either case.

Sure, but we need to establish a firm stance so people don't walk all over us. If word gets around that we surrendered there and backed down here, nobody will take us seriously.

[DracoOmega]

For that matter, we have an amazing bargaining position - we can have the Celestials leave. We are enough of a challenge to keep Remilia and Sakuya off them for as long as it takes the Celestials to scatter, leaving Remilia with nothing. Remilia no doubt knows this as well.

I admit I hadn't thought of this particular angle. I had assessed our ability to beat both Remilia and Sakuya together, which I considered quite low (despite it being daylight). I'm still uncertain whether we'd be a sufficient challenge to allow the celestials to escape, however. They're all quite injured, and it mightn't take too much more damage to simply knock them out. With two people opposing us, one can waylay us while the other takes out escapees. But let's assume for the moment that we could allow every single celestial to escape. What then? We're clearly not going to win a fight against Remilia and Sakuya, and we'd be giving them more evidence to support her view that we're an invader. We might not even be able to escape without being fully incapacitated, and we'd likely also lose the ability to use Patchy as an ally. It is certain to make an enemy out of Remilia, and we don't need any more of those at the moment.

Thus, helping a small group of celestials escape temporary (and relatively harmless) servitude would significantly impede the chances of a more positive longer-term resolution to this.

I disagree. Remilia is vain, and will most certainly jump at challenges. Dance, being a common aristocratic pastime, is certainly something she could get behind.

I disagree. Remilia is vain, and will resent our presumption that she need win a challenge from us to keep what she believes is rightfully hers.
Let's even entertain the scenario where she actually accepts. What then? You think she'll just rescind all claim to her territory because we can dance better than she can?

Sure, but we need to establish a firm stance so people don't walk all over us. If word gets around that we surrendered there and backed down here, nobody will take us seriously.

I hardly think Remilia being her selfish vainglorious self is going to turn any heads around Gensokyo. I can think of tangible things we risk losing by antagonizing her, and I can't see what is to be gained by forcing the issue with her at this early juncture. The main reason we're having a hard time getting people to take us at our word is because of how suspicious this situation looks, when viewed from a certain angle. On that front, I think finding actual evidence of what happened will do far, far more than any 'reputation for being firm' we could establish. Most people are not going to especially care about whatever silly idea Remilia's gotten into her head this time.

[WHMZakeri]

I honestly don't think it's worth bothering with Remi in the first place. We'll just have to personally look at this as an exercise for the Celestials of the Island to learn how to work hard. As for negotiating proof that we're the victims here, this is another case where we're trying to feed the chickens before the egg has hatched. We had no proof of anything, and until we can get a solid testimony, there's nothing for us to Ace Attorney our way through. Remilia is one of the last places we should look for this because of how hopelessly confused she is about the whole thing (even though she'd never admit it).

[DracoOmega]

I only landed in the first place to make sure they weren't being directly harmed. I didn't expect any concessions from Remilia. Once I was satisfied that the celestials would be ok, I was content to leave and resume other tasks, which is what I attempted to do. I agree that convincing her will require a very incontrovertible and obvious demonstration that we're not at fault (by producing the actual culprit, for example_, and even then I wouldn't be surprised if Remilia tried to rationalize her way out of it.

[Fightest]

But let's assume for the moment that we could allow every single celestial to escape. What then?

We leave as well. They get nothing.

I disagree. Remilia is vain, and will resent our presumption that she need win a challenge from us to keep what she believes is rightfully hers.
Let's even entertain the scenario where she actually accepts. What then? You think she'll just rescind all claim to her territory because we can dance better than she can?

You misunderstand my intention. We use the dance-off to negotiate a contract of good-will. As I, you know, said in that post.

I only landed in the first place to make sure they weren't being directly harmed. I didn't expect any concessions from Remilia. Once I was satisfied that the celestials would be ok, I was content to leave and resume other tasks, which is what I attempted to do. I agree that convincing her will require a very incontrovertible and obvious demonstration that we're not at fault (by producing the actual culprit, for example_, and even then I wouldn't be surprised if Remilia tried to rationalize her way out of it.

And that's ultimately my problem. Look how many times you have used "I." This isn't a singleplayer game. Let others have a turn with the toys.

[DracoOmega]

We leave as well. They get nothing.

Are you ignoring all of the fallout this course will almost certainly cause? Which I outlined in the previous post, but which you have omitted mention of here?

You misunderstand my intention. We use the dance-off to negotiate a contract of good-will. As I, you know, said in that post.

You did? Even on re-reading I see no obvious mention of this.

And that's ultimately my problem. Look how many times you have used "I." This isn't a singleplayer game. Let others have a turn with the toys.

I used 'I' so much in that paragraph because I was the person who posted the specific actions I referred to, and because those were my personal thoughts on the matter. There's nothing more to read into it than that. It's hardly that I resent other people taking actions they are personally interested in pursuing, in the general case. I questioned in this case because I feared potential harm that would be done to our position by insisting on some of these things.

[Fightest]

Are you ignoring all of the fallout this course will almost certainly cause? Which I outlined in the previous post, but which you have omitted mention of here?

more evidence to support her view that we're an invader. We might not even be able to escape without being fully incapacitated, and we'd likely also lose the ability to use Patchy as an ally. It is certain to make an enemy out of Remilia

First point is not really applicable, as Remilia chooses to interpret anything as evidence or lack thereof. She is not likely to listen to fact in this case. Second point is temporary, as we can eventually recover and are on no time limit. Third point is possibly valid, but can be gotten around in numerous ways.

You did? Even on re-reading I see no obvious mention of this.

> "I would have you sign a contract of good-will, with all due respect. These are my people, and I wish them treated with the respect they deserve."
> Lower voice.
> "Or do you want to dance on it?"

In hindsight I can see the thinking that might lead to this being misinterpreted. Still seems mostly obvious.

I feared potential harm that would be done to our position by insisting on some of these things.

I should point out that having enemies can be as useful as having allies. In this case, our position cannot sink any lower, either. At least we would gain a modicum of respect as a worthy adversary.

[Kilgamayan]

tbh I'm wondering why Remilia is worth a damn, as theoretically we'll have this fixed in a day or two and the island will go back up floating high in the sky where she can't reach it anyway. >_>

[Fightest]

tbh I'm wondering why Remilia is worth a damn, as theoretically we'll have this fixed in a day or two and the island will go back up floating high in the sky where she can't reach it anyway. >_>

Let me have my dance-off, dammit!

[WHMZakeri]

tbh I'm wondering why Remilia is worth a damn, as theoretically we'll have this fixed in a day or two and the island will go back up floating high in the sky where she can't reach it anyway. >_>

Someone's on the same page as me at least.

Besides, We've already invaded Remilia's Airspace. Further Aggression is only going to complicate things - especially if Patches caught wind, which she's likely to.

[Kilgamayan]

Let me have my dance-off, dammit!

Out of curiosity, what makes you think Remilia is going to accept? She's prideful, but she's not stupid, and we're renowned for our dancing ability. I doubt Remilia will accept a challenge that puts her at a clear disadvantage, pride or no pride.

[Fightest]

Out of curiosity, what makes you think Remilia is going to accept? She's prideful, but she's not stupid, and we're renowned for our dancing ability. I doubt Remilia will accept a challenge that puts her at a clear disadvantage, pride or no pride.

Not only is she prideful, but she's also vain - both factors tend to override non-stupidity and go straight for the derp glands.

Also, I'm not assuming she is going to accept. If she says no then we just leave.

[Hello Purvis]

So at it stands, we have one person who wants to try and challenge Remilia, one who just wants to leave, and two wondering why we bothered with her in the first place.

I'm gonna say those last two are de facto votes toward the second one, and proceed likewise at the top of the hour if nothing new is offered.

[Blitzer]

I'm gonna say those last two are de facto votes toward the first one,

Wait what.

I think we should just leave and prove that the Celestials were not invaders as we go along. I don't think we're going to be able to negotiate with Remilia at this point in time.

[Hello Purvis]

I'm fuck dyslexic you.

[WHMZakeri]

Majority vote.

>"I'm sorry that we couldn't bring about an understanding."
>Leave it at that.

>Quests
>Where do we recall Marisa going?
>Proceed to the Bamboo forest.

[DracoOmega]

Majority vote.

>"I'm sorry that we couldn't bring about an understanding."
>Leave it at that.

>Quests
>Where do we recall Marisa going?
>Proceed to the Bamboo forest.

>Wait, wait, why are we going to the Bamboo Forest? We came here specifically to go the SDM to speak with Patchy

[WHMZakeri]

I'm lost now. What did we need to talk to patchy about that she wouldn't force us to wait until after we talk to Eirin, Mary, and Marisa for?

[DracoOmega]

Well, I'd thought as long as we were in the process of fulfilling her request, she'd work on ours, whether we'd completed the whole thing or not. I suppose it's always possible she won't, but we also don't know how much time the spell will take her, so it doesn't hurt to drop off the dress so she can work, while we're right here.

Additionally, we're very unlikely to be able to find Eientei by just going to the forest. We're going to need someone to guide us. Admittedly, we may be able to get there by becoming hopelessly lost and hoping Mokou finds us and bails us out, but it would probably be nicer to find a guide first, if that's possible.

[WHMZakeri]

Hmm, Alright then. That works out. We can ask Patch how to get to Eientei as well.

>Head to Patches' Library.

[DracoOmega]

If we're in agreement then, I may as well repost my original commands so that we don't just leave Remi abruptly.

>"You may not, but I will not rest until I find it. You have my sworn word as a servant of The Dragon that this was not a premeditated invasion. Finding the truth here is a matter of honor for me. I trust you can respect that much."
>"In any event, I should take my leave now and continue my search. Good day to you."
>Nod respectfully
>Leave for the SDM. If the SDM itself can't be seen from here, try to loop around in a way that doesn't make it obvious that's where we're headed until we're obscured from their sight.

[Hello Purvis]

>"You may not, but I will not rest until I find it. You have my sworn word as a servant of The Dragon that this was not a premeditated invasion. Finding the truth here is a matter of honor for me. I trust you can respect that much."
>"In any event, I should take my leave now and continue my search. Good day to you."
>Nod respectfully
>Leave for the SDM. If the SDM itself can't be seen from here, try to loop around in a way that doesn't make it obvious that's where we're headed until we're obscured from their sight.

>"I'm sorry that we couldn't bring about an understanding."
>Leave it at that.

>Quests
>Where do we recall Marisa going?
>Proceed to the Bamboo forest.

>Remilia nods back. "Go, then. We shall leave you in peace."
>You turn to leave, as Sakuya begins to address the Celestials again. "As I was saying, you think that you know how to dust. I assure you, you dust only slightly better than the worms in the dirt! You will be taught proper techniques. And you will use them..."
>You fly off the side of the island, doing your best to disguise your true course. Unfortunately, there's not a lot you can do about that; there isn't much further south of here that you know of, and they would likely see you flying away in any other direction. Still, no danmaku or knives or green monsters descend upon you as leave. You land near the gates of the mansion, and quickly notice the faeries at the gate have some fresh faces, and Juniper isn't among them.
>You last saw Marisa heading northward from the general direction of the mansion and the isle over it.
>You quests are:
>The Sky Has Fallen
>Bhava Agra has descended into Gensokyo. The Dragon has tasked you with finding out why and fixing it.
>Celestial on the Run
>Tenshi has run away with the Sword of Hisou! Was she responsible for Bhava-Agra falling? Regardless, she needs to be found.
>Magician's Invitational
>Patchouli has asked you to deliver invitations to various magicians in order to form a circle. You have Marisa, Renko, Mary, and Eirin left to invite.

>_

[DracoOmega]

>"Good morning. I'd like to speak with Patchouli again. I have something to deliver to her."

[Hello Purvis]

>"Good morning. I'd like to speak with Patchouli again. I have something to deliver to her."

>"Oh, what?" asks a faerie maid with her brown hair styled into ringlets. "Can I see? Hey, you don't have a package or anything, are you really making a delivery?"

>_

[DracoOmega]

>"Well, it was mostly a message, actually. I'm running an errand for her, and was reporting back on part of it. But I also have something that's a needed component of a spell she was going to perform for me. Despite how unlikely that might seem from the look of it."
>Show the dress, if asked.

[WHMZakeri]

>Present Tenshi's Clothing
>Truth: "I am delivering these as spell components for Patchouli."
>Tuck clothing away before Fairies touch it. "Also, Patchouli has asked me another favor, and I wish to console her on how to complete it. I will likely have to return after completing that favor as well."

...

>Change "Magician's Invitational" Quest name to "Harbor Witches Coven." 

[Kilgamayan]

> Ponder why we do not simply find a portion of the Scarlet Devil Mansion outer wall that is not in the line of sight of the gate and fly over that next time we need to enter the place. These fairies are going to kill us via migraine at this rate.

[WHMZakeri]

>That would be breaking and entering.