Author Topic: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F  (Read 183711 times)

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #870 on: April 10, 2011, 09:01:39 PM »
Yeah I redownloaded the save back on F3 of this thread but same issue.  Its fine for version 2.04 with all exp and skills set to 0.  But put it into the plus disk and it has experience for characters China and all the way to Rennosuke.  The F21+ characters are set to 0 exp though. 

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #871 on: April 10, 2011, 09:46:32 PM »
Serpent of Chaos defeated! Iku got sniped halfway through again which slowed things down a bit (Kaguya's buff just lacks the sheer power boost Thundercloud Stickleback gives), and dear lord that final phase is efficient at killing off my tanks, but in the end Meiling managed to pull through with her self-heal while Mystia put her speed to use switching attackers in and out (and dealing the finishing blow with a 100k Ill-Starred Dive). Also this is the first time in I don't know how long that I have actually had Nitori run out of SP. :V

No drop, though, and that Machine God Lucifer just seems too good to pass up, so I guess I'll be refighting this guy for a while.

RegalStar

  • Envoy of Balance
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #872 on: April 11, 2011, 05:59:44 AM »
Trivia regarding elements: Without taking 30F encounters into account, out of 177 random encounter monsters in the game (assuming I didn't mess up while deleting replicate entries somewhere), the number of monsters weak to/resistant to the six elements are:

FIR: 55 weak, 35 resist
CLD: 38 weak, 48 resist
WND: 14 weak, 57 resist
NTR: 8 weak, 62 resist
MYS: 12 weak, 70 resist
SPI: 37 weak, 46 resist

Rukoto

  • "Ordinary" Magician
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #873 on: April 11, 2011, 06:05:12 AM »
Bloody Papa's Washing Machine wasn't quite as powerful as I remembered it to be... In fact, it was probably his least damaging attack to my team :V
Also, I'm finally able to kill some of the 30F bosses (still running from Yuugi (I'll pass on +800k KOi3S spam, thanks), Yukari, and Utsuho, and probably Shiki and Alice if i bump into them). Guess I'll have Beast of Centaurea V2 down soon as well. By the way, Mystia seems to have the best overall bulk of any speedster I've used to date; I'm very happy with her ability to mow down bosses while staying in the battle.

Also, edited out two new charagraphs for Utsuho, who I plan to use on my NG+ run (along with other characters that I've hopefully never used before).

NEETori

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #874 on: April 11, 2011, 05:09:29 PM »
Assuming equal usage, I think Mystia's got the best stats for a speedster, and some of the best stats for a well-rounded character.

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #875 on: April 11, 2011, 11:34:22 PM »
One other thing I noticed about the whole odd exp issue with new game+ is that everyone's TP is alot higher than it should be.  Yuka has 16 TP instead of the beginning 4.  Oh well, i'll just work with what I got.  Saves me skillpoints on TP i guess XD. 

Rukoto

  • "Ordinary" Magician
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #876 on: April 12, 2011, 01:15:25 AM »
And down goes Beast of Centaurea V2! Wasn't really a hard battle, actually. Also, I've fought and defeated every 30F character boss except Alice V3, who I haven't run into yet. Yuugi still stands as the most difficult one for me. 3 more bosses and I'm done this playthrough; can't wait to try a NG+ run.

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #877 on: April 12, 2011, 02:40:57 AM »
I just run away from Yuugi, she's not worth the trouble.  Be sure to up your affinities to like 500-600 if you want to actually have a chance of surviving the ***WINNER***'s many elemental attacks. 

J.O.B

  • YOU CAN'T MAKE ME CHANGE
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #878 on: April 12, 2011, 03:02:20 AM »
Yuyuko doesnt seem to appear on 14F even after I saw all the events.
Are there anymore events other than the ones with Chen, Patchy and Youmu?

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #879 on: April 12, 2011, 03:07:51 AM »
Think there is one for Rumia as well.  Need 100 battle points with her to trigger it though. 

J.O.B

  • YOU CAN'T MAKE ME CHANGE
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #880 on: April 12, 2011, 03:28:29 AM »
Thanks, I had no idea because the wiki didn't say anything about it.

RegalStar

  • Envoy of Balance
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #881 on: April 12, 2011, 05:06:49 AM »
The bloodstained ver2s all seem so easy compared to their v1 selves (well, except Beast of Centaurus, which I haven't fought yet...), and none of them seem eager to use their special nukes attack at all except Bloody Papa, who flung Washing Maching after Washing Machine vainly at -40% ATK/MAG.

Well, onto more grinding for Beast of Centaurus...

Ghaleon

  • Long twintail-o-holic
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #882 on: April 12, 2011, 06:31:28 AM »
I personally find their V2 counterparts to be significantly more difficult...Particularly beast (unless you paralize its first form like I did last time..which took approximately 5 lifetimes).

RegalStar

  • Envoy of Balance
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #883 on: April 12, 2011, 06:37:09 AM »
Well, BoC is an exception, not the norm. Tenshi just kind of walled everything EVD and Hibachi has to offer for me - heck, she takes 0 from Light Wing Expansion even without any buffs (or so she would, if EVD actually ended up using Light Wing Expansion). I was a bit overlevelled, but not by much I think (Meiling 360 for EVD/Bloody Papa, 390 for Hibachi).

Serela

  • Moon Tiara Magic
  • VIA PIZZA SLINGING
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #884 on: April 12, 2011, 01:28:27 PM »
Assuming equal usage, I think Mystia's got the best stats for a speedster, and some of the best stats for a well-rounded character.
Best stats for a well-rounded character I'm not as sure, for example, in my current run, I kept around Alice for awhile since I like her as a character; then it turned into keeping her around until the Yuka fight since her FIR nuke and MND is good for it, then after that I realized "Holy crap, Alice actually has really great MND now and nice DEF/HP plus she does good damage... she's like a stay-out tank damage dealer!"

The way stats scale into Plus-Disk can surprise me sometimes :3

Aya is also totally awesome in Plus Disk. Buff her ATK and her rapefast Peerless Wind God spam is quite formidible, plus she can switch out the entire party for others at the drop of a pin, and she's the best to use for greatly abusing Yukari's Spiriting Away after I got Yukari 2500+ SP to spam it with. And ontop of that, she can dole out SPD buffs pretty fast too!

Anyway, finally got around to reaching 28F, and oh man the return of gimmick floors, PLUS suddenly the random battles are rape-difficult. I suppose I should clear out Boss Rush V2 and Utsuho first. Switched out Minoriko for Yuyuko, since with Meiling/Rumia/Reimu I've NEVER been using Minoriko anymore for healing, and although I'm already sadfacing that she'll be useless for Serpent of Chaos, she's otherwise quite nice as a durable nuker and random-battle-DTHer. Have to stack a bunch of items that boost SPD on her for trashbusting though since she's slower then Patch.
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Rukoto

  • "Ordinary" Magician
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #885 on: April 12, 2011, 02:40:27 PM »
The way stats scale into Plus-Disk can surprise me sometimes :3
I can say the same thing myself. I've found Yuugi more than capable of surviving magic attacks, actually (more like lose ~50% hp, which is all healed back the following turn), and Meiling has become a suprisingly good healer in most boss fights. Iku's physical defense seems to be getting more and more tolerable to work with as i use her more too, and her Stickleback makes Meiling and Reimu's heals more than anything else I need, most of the time. Unfortunately, Suwako's defenses seem to have scaled very poorly in comparison for me :V

EDIT: Sweet, just found an Awakened Exoskeleton. Happies.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2011, 02:45:33 PM by Rukoto »

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #886 on: April 12, 2011, 03:12:13 PM »
It would seem like as long as Meiling doesn't get Scourged or Thousand-Handed Kannoned, I can beat up Serpent of Chaos just fine. The fact that it can use Destroy Magic in its last phase worries me, though :ohdear: Luckily I've only seen it used once (and that was the turn before it died, so it didn't matter) but I imagine getting hit by that at the start of phase 3 could really wreak havoc on my ability to keep everyone healed and buffed.

Also got my first 30F drop, which just so happened to also be an Awakened Exoskeleton. All stats +150, all resistances +15, and all affinities +60? Hell yes.

Serela

  • Moon Tiara Magic
  • VIA PIZZA SLINGING
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #887 on: April 12, 2011, 04:13:26 PM »
almost forgot to mention that DEF-based levelups on yukari makes her the best second slot tank ever

tank with 50% def/mnd buff, PAR+speed down spell, and SPIRITING AWAY? Yes please.

I've tried MND-Yukari before but while she had Patch-tier mnd, she was far too vulnerable against physical attacks. My current run with DEF-based has never disappointed me ever :3 Having Rumia to supplement/backup Reimu is also pretty lifesaving sometimes, and her attacks can be useful in certain situations as well.
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Ghaleon

  • Long twintail-o-holic
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #888 on: April 12, 2011, 06:33:37 PM »
Yukari's def isn't bad actually, I mean even without def level up bonuses. And her mind is equal, which means its also good (I think calling it patch tier is a bit of a stretch though. chances are you had much better mnd-equipment on for her too, which is expected since if you use her for spiriting away there's no need for offensive stats, specially since her nukes kinda suck).

But yeah, if the game didn't pretty much force you to use china/tenshi as the first slot tank without making you have to level up more to compensate (you CAN use others, but I think you WILL have to be higher level otherwise), Yukari, IMO could quite possibly be an excellent FIRST slot tank even. Her health isn't too impressive, but neither is Tenshi's, and unlike Tenshi, she's very useful for her spells (sword of rapture would be useful if it worked..ever). Problem with spiriting away is it doesn't affect herself much, and affecting a different first slot tank isn't as useful, so it's really IMO only useful for 2 others, but if she was your primary tank, that'd be 3 others getting much benefit.

If I ever decided on a challenge run where the party makeup was pretty less than optimal and I forced myself to not use any of the normal tanks, I'd definately consider her. Though her sp would go down the drain like water so you'd most likely have to have a switch out replacement, unlike china who can generally stay out full time.

NEETori

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #889 on: April 12, 2011, 07:33:33 PM »
I have to agree with Ghaleon on Yukari.  I've built her evenly between MND/DEF and HP, and I've got to say, she's probably the best offtank that isn't already a primary tank I've got.

Serela

  • Moon Tiara Magic
  • VIA PIZZA SLINGING
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #890 on: April 12, 2011, 07:51:07 PM »
And her mind is equal, which means its also good
Noooooope it's not o_o

With all levelup bonuses added to DEF and skp/equips equally favoring them around lv240, they're almost exactly the same. That's a massive favoring to DEF  :3 Actually, they've been just about equal for the entire run.

Quote
Problem with spiriting away is it doesn't affect herself much, and affecting a different first slot tank isn't as useful, so it's really IMO only useful for 2 others, but if she was your primary tank, that'd be 3 others getting much benefit.
One of those people usually should be used to switch Yukari out anyway since she's slow and will have 0 guage. Especially if you want to use Spiriting Away again as soon as you can, which is a good idea a little bit later on in Plus Disk when you've got stuff like Jewels of Arthur or whatever they're called, and pretty much anything with a big boost to SP in general. Many bosses can be turned into a damage race if you've got sufficient SP on Yukari, and some like... "I made a list but it's actually most of the non-sigil-or-30F Plus Disk bosses" are best done that way.

It's just that when I did MND-levelups on Yukari, she'd get very hurt or sometimes even one-shotted by physicals, so it really didn't work out >: And yes, in a run where I used MND-based Yukari and MAG-based Patchouli, they had about the same MND after beating the final boss. Sometimes it seems like people underestimate the gigantic difference that's made to a stat from applying all levelup bonuses to it >:
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Ghaleon

  • Long twintail-o-holic
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #891 on: April 12, 2011, 08:39:00 PM »
I thought they were the same, I checked and it turned out they weren't, word.. Still though, her defense IS still good (better than sakuya's for instance).
Switching her out after spiriting away because she's slow is a good point...if you are using it with someone who is fast. Alas, it gives the best benefit on people who are slow, so it's still semi counter-productive in that sense. I don't use her, but I rekon if you have china out and you use china to switch yukari after a spiriting away cuz yukari is slow, I rekon yukari is well past 50% guage anyway (probably like 70%, which is nearly what they're at after a switch anyway!) Could be wrong though, dunno.

As for the mnd thing, I just leveld up yukari, and spent an equal amount of skillpoints on mnd as I did patchy, and unequipped patchy, she's still 14000 mnd below (out of 74000 for patchy, who spent all her levels on mag this playthru), with 20% more exp, I rekon it'd be more like 10000.

Might not sound like much, but bear in mind the damage formulas use subtractive formulas, not multiplicative, so they have increasing returns for every point over 0 (until stuff HITS for 0 that is). Personally, I rather like seeing patchy take 0's from composite attacks cuz her mnd is so stinking high (doesn't seem to do this often with mag level investments though >=( ), so eh, I still think it's not really patchy level if you consider the last 10000 is far more valuable than the previous 10000 (or even 20000+ if the numbers line up right) or whatever.

RegalStar

  • Envoy of Balance
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #892 on: April 12, 2011, 09:58:38 PM »
Switching her out after spiriting away because she's slow is a good point...if you are using it with someone who is fast. Alas, it gives the best benefit on people who are slow, so it's still semi counter-productive in that sense. I don't use her, but I rekon if you have china out and you use china to switch yukari after a spiriting away cuz yukari is slow, I rekon yukari is well past 50% guage anyway (probably like 70%, which is nearly what they're at after a switch anyway!) Could be wrong though, dunno.

I have absolutely no idea what you're going on about. After Yukari uses Spiriting Away, the other three members will immediately obtain a full gauge, meaning that except in very rare situations, all three will immediately act, and if one switches Yukari out, it will be when Yukari has 0% gauge.

The ideal use of Spiriting Away would be something like (while Yukari is slower than everyone involved): Three party members act, Yukari uses Spiritng Away, two members switchs Yukari out and in while third member acts, the two members who switched in Yukari is faster so they act again, Yukari acts and uses Spiriting Away, repeat from there.

Ghaleon

  • Long twintail-o-holic
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #893 on: April 13, 2011, 07:49:04 AM »
oh yeah, sorry. Moment of derp... I still think she's be a pretty mean tank compared to all the non china/tenshi options though >=P

NEETori

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #894 on: April 13, 2011, 08:25:19 AM »
Yuugi and Youmu are probably better for pure physical tanking (and if built for, it, Yuugi's probably the best physical tank in the game, although I probably wouldn't recommend it), and we know how awesome Iku is for magic. 

Pure Mind Iku is probably the best overall Mind Tank, Pure Defense Yuugi is probably the best overall physical tank, going by growths.
For overall tanking, I think Yukari, Reimu (late in the game), Kourin and Eirin are probably the best non-China/Tenshi tanks. 

Also, Alice = <3.  She falters midgame, but at the start of the Plus Disk, she really develops into an amazing character. 

Ghaleon

  • Long twintail-o-holic
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #895 on: April 13, 2011, 05:49:38 PM »
I dunno about cootiesuke. His defenses are pretty much the same as Remi's (factoring in slower leveling) but has less than steller hp. Plus Remi can buff her own defenses easily with vlad's (and keep her sp high enough to spam it despite low mana if you like due to her very high sp recovery rate).
mnd yuyuko might give iku a run for her money too, though she'd be pretty much completely useless as a mnd character except for instant deathing really.

RegalStar

  • Envoy of Balance
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #896 on: April 13, 2011, 06:07:50 PM »
MND Yuyuko is a terrible waste of character. SFN's damage formula is too good to not try to capitalize on. Besides, I've built her to be MAG/MND hybrid (slanting towards MAG) and she still got decent magic survivability, only a bit worse than an HP/MND hybrid Minoriko slanted towards MND (and whose surviability towards magic I certainly don't have any problems with).

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #897 on: April 13, 2011, 07:37:51 PM »
My Yuyuko is pure MAG and still has good survivability, as well as awesome SFN nuking.

Ghaleon

  • Long twintail-o-holic
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #898 on: April 13, 2011, 09:45:11 PM »
My Yuyuko is pure MAG and still has good survivability, as well as awesome SFN nuking.

yeah, I prefer her mag based too. I'm just saying she'd be really dang tanky if you chose mnd, and I also stated she'd be pretty useless though >=P

RegalStar

  • Envoy of Balance
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #899 on: April 13, 2011, 11:21:15 PM »
Beast of Centaurea v2 is down. For some reason I thought bomb[e*]r[!*] is row-target and forgot to give Minoriko enough FIR resistance, and she died horribly on its third spam. And then it started spamming Needle Parade -_-" At least all those Charges I threw around in phase 1 while it's PAR-locked seemed to have paid off, or I probably would've ended up with a China+Tenshi 2v1...

Nothing more to do except grinding and the last three bosses.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2011, 11:23:06 PM by RegalStar »