Author Topic: Danmaku Plothole? (Read 10450 times)

Something XutaWoo-y · « **Reply #30 on:** August 20, 2010, 03:34:56 AM »

:]: Hey! I'm free! Thank you, Sho-
:yukkuri:: HEY BITCH
:]: H-huh, wha-?
:yukkuri:: WE GONNA PLAY A GAME
:]: Uh, okay, how do yo-
:yukkuri:: WHAT
:]: What?
:yukkuri:: FUCK IT *tosses random spell cards*
:]: Wait, what do these w-
:yukkuri:: LOVE SIGN -MASTER SPARK- BITCH

:v ?

Lord Phantasm Satori · « **Reply #31 on:** August 20, 2010, 04:14:04 AM »

roflol. that was an awesome Marisa moment right there. I could totally see her doing that,

Blackraptor · « **Reply #32 on:** August 20, 2010, 06:21:59 AM »

Simple answer: Danmaku play is Gensokyo's version of paintball matches.

Complicated answer: Yukari was pissed at the utter massacre that Reimu and the gang did to the residents of Makai in Mystic Square. Imagine...

Wake up from a century-long nap. Open the window. Dead Makai residents everywhere.

She retconned the whole franchised and gave the new Gensokyo the premise that Danmaku play is the standard way beating someone else up.

Spoiler:

Esoterica · « **Reply #33 on:** August 20, 2010, 06:29:27 AM »

Quote from: Blackraptor on August 20, 2010, 06:21:59 AM

Spoiler:
I have no idea why everyone kept killing Mokou in Imperishable Night though.

She was just trying to be a badass by dying 8+ times before giving up.

Montblanc · « **Reply #34 on:** August 20, 2010, 07:20:45 AM »

In reference to an earlier post, Spell cards DID appear before 6.

Rumia was the first to use the Spell Card Rules, yes, but Spell Cards first made their debut in PoDD - all of the characters had access to Special Attacks which were referred to as Spell Cards.

Still doesn't account for Byakuren knowing about it 1000 years ago, but eh.

Esoterica · « **Reply #35 on:** August 20, 2010, 07:27:58 AM »

Quote from: Kagiyama Hinaeon on August 20, 2010, 07:20:45 AM

In reference to an earlier post, Spell cards DID appear before 6.

Rumia was the first to use the Spell Card Rules, yes, but Spell Cards first made their debut in PoDD - all of the characters had access to Special Attacks which were referred to as Spell Cards.

Still doesn't account for Byakuren knowing about it 1000 years ago, but eh.

...you know, that completely slipped my mind.

In that case, I think it's safe to say spellcards weren't exactly a foreign concept to her, as we don't know that PoDD was the actual first instance of them being used in Gensokyo.

Blackraptor · « **Reply #36 on:** August 20, 2010, 07:56:38 AM »

Quote from: Esoterica on August 20, 2010, 07:27:58 AM

In that case, I think it's safe to say spellcards weren't exactly a foreign concept to her, as we don't know that PoDD was the actual first instance of them being used in Gensokyo.

For all we know...Byakuren was sealed in Makai BECAUSE she lost a Danmaku-esque duel to an unspecified being.

Doll.S CUBE · « **Reply #37 on:** August 20, 2010, 10:15:21 AM »

Quote from: Blackraptor on August 20, 2010, 06:21:59 AM

Complicated answer: Shinki was pissed at the utter massacre that Reimu and the gang did to the residents of Makai in Mystic Square. Imagine...

After they left, she looked at the damage they caused and found dead Makai residents everywhere.

She retconned the whole franchised and gave the new Gensokyo the premise that Danmaku play is the standard way beating someone else up.

Fixed for ya

Tengukami · « **Reply #38 on:** August 20, 2010, 10:35:47 AM »

Just a thought here, but maybe I've been putting my focus on when she was sealed instead of what it is to be sealed. Perhaps she can see and hear, maybe Shou et al have communicated with her, keeping her posted on Gensokyan developments.

Kyaksa · « **Reply #39 on:** August 20, 2010, 11:12:36 AM »

Quote

Posted by: Tengukami
? on: Today at 10:35:47 am ? Insert Quote

Just a thought here, but maybe I've been putting my focus on when she was sealed instead of what it is to be sealed. Perhaps she can see and hear, maybe Shou et al have communicated with her, keeping her posted on Gensokyan developments.

I think that's impossible because that was around a thousand years ago... that tenchology didn't exist back then

Doll.S CUBE · « **Reply #40 on:** August 20, 2010, 11:15:23 AM »

I don't think he's talking about technological but magical communication.

Tengukami · « **Reply #41 on:** August 20, 2010, 11:47:45 AM »

Yea, wasn't talking about mobile phones or emails. It could be regular ol' talking or telepathy. What do we know about being sealed, after all?

Kyaksa · « **Reply #42 on:** August 20, 2010, 11:51:24 AM »

Quote

It could be regular ol' talking or telepathy. What do we know about being sealed, after all?

The problem of the matter is though... how strong does one have to be too keep such a communitcation... If it's an ability okay... but I don't think telepathy is an easy magic tool... and of course all that is to question: Does the barriar stop telepathcy(sp?)?

Tengukami · « **Reply #43 on:** August 20, 2010, 12:07:16 PM »

The entire question rests upon what it means to be sealed. That's my point. Without knowing exactly what it entails, we have no way of saying whether or not it would be impossible for Byakuren to learn the spell card rules while being sealed.

Forte Blackadder · « **Reply #44 on:** August 20, 2010, 01:00:07 PM »

Reimu just invented the "rules", like, "You're not allowed to kill me" and stuffs.
I bet before that they used danmaku for different things like fireworks or whatever.

Mushyrulez · « **Reply #45 on:** August 20, 2010, 09:12:15 PM »

Maybe "sealed" just means "immobile", so she couldn't move. Then a bunch of people in Makai shouted "DURR HURR BLAH BLAH BLAH SPELLCARD BLAH BLAH" and she made spellcards and other random things?

:V

Lord Phantasm Satori · « **Reply #46 on:** August 20, 2010, 09:45:44 PM »

no no no...

she was obviously turned into a seal!

Blackraptor · « **Reply #47 on:** August 21, 2010, 01:37:28 AM »

Quote from: Mushyrulez on August 20, 2010, 09:12:15 PM

Maybe "sealed" just means "immobile", so she couldn't move. Then a bunch of people in Makai shouted "DURR HURR BLAH BLAH BLAH SPELLCARD BLAH BLAH" and she made spellcards and other random things?

:V

Byakuren did say that she was stuck in a stone disk ala Kikuri. Whoever did that to her has a habit of doing that to women. Maybe she lost a duel with Shinki and got stuck in there or whatnot.

Doll.S CUBE · « **Reply #48 on:** August 21, 2010, 02:50:38 AM »

Maybe she was Kikuri.

Esoterica · « **Reply #49 on:** August 21, 2010, 03:38:07 PM »

Quote from: Blackraptor on August 21, 2010, 01:37:28 AM

Byakuren did say that she was stuck in a stone disk ala Kikuri. Whoever did that to her has a habit of doing that to women. Maybe she lost a duel with Shinki and got stuck in there or whatnot.

It's possible.

Quote from: Psycho Doll.S on August 21, 2010, 02:50:38 AM

Maybe she was Kikuri.

There is actually a bit of a resemblance there. Looks like Kikuri has a tie, among other slight differences.

Montblanc · « **Reply #50 on:** August 21, 2010, 04:08:26 PM »

Kikuri was only in the Hell Route, though. Not Makai.

Sejha · « **Reply #51 on:** August 22, 2010, 10:23:47 PM »

Quote from: Ryuu on August 20, 2010, 03:21:30 AM

iirc rumia is the first character to ever use the spellcard system so yeah.

Oops, I meant to say, third game:

From touhou wiki:
東方夢時空　～ Phantasmagoria of Dim. Dream (romanized: Touhou Yumejikuu, meaning Oriental Dream Dimensions) is the third game in the Touhou series, released for the Japanese PC-98 in 1997. It is a unique game wherein two players indirectly combat one another by charging and releasing Spell Cards.

Spell Cards.

PLOT BE DAMNED.

Blackraptor · « **Reply #52 on:** August 23, 2010, 05:48:13 AM »

Quote from: Snow Taradien on August 22, 2010, 10:23:47 PM

Spell Cards.

PLOT BE DAMNED.

Yumemi invented the system since she was the big bad of that game. Reimu kicked her out of Gensokyo and claimed it as her own.

Sejha · « **Reply #53 on:** August 23, 2010, 01:57:56 PM »

Quote from: Blackraptor on August 23, 2010, 05:48:13 AM

Yumemi invented the system since she was the big bad of that game. Reimu kicked her out of Gensokyo and claimed it as her own.

Problem solved.

WE HAVE OUR ANSWER.

Well, at least, I have MY answer.

Tengukami · « **Reply #54 on:** August 23, 2010, 01:59:22 PM »

It actually makes sense, too.

To me, anyway. Because I like Yumemi. That's my evidence.

Hello Purvis · « **Reply #55 on:** August 23, 2010, 05:48:58 PM »

Quote from: Blackraptor on August 21, 2010, 01:37:28 AM

Byakuren did say that she was stuck in a stone disk ala Kikuri.

When?

Marin The Magus · « **Reply #56 on:** August 23, 2010, 05:55:46 PM »

But then, spell cards would need to be from the human world. Maybe they were there since before but they didn't have a name?

Myschi · « **Reply #57 on:** August 23, 2010, 06:27:18 PM »

Quote from: Mary The Magician on August 23, 2010, 05:55:46 PM

But then, spell cards would need to be from the human world. Maybe they were there since before but they didn't have a name?

I know jack-all about Yumemi/her spellcard bit, but... that makes sense. I mean, the only thing we (by which I mean 'I') know about the human world (assuming it's the same time/dimension as Renko/Mary) is that strawberries are synthetic.

Who knows, maybe spellcards/danmaku in general was a form of entertainment over there, using sufficiently advanced technology. Which somehow got put into magic.

Yeah.

Hello Purvis · « **Reply #58 on:** August 23, 2010, 06:32:25 PM »

Yumemi doesn't come from the same place as Mary and Renko. Her background specifically states she comes from a place where technology is way beyond ours. And society seems to be pretty radically different, too.

And given she was trying to find magic, I don't think she invented spellcards as Reimu and all the rest know them.

Ayuka · « **Reply #59 on:** August 23, 2010, 06:33:46 PM »

Quote from: Pikbak on August 23, 2010, 06:27:18 PM

I know jack-all about Yumemi/her spellcard bit, but... that makes sense. I mean, the only thing we (by which I mean 'I') know about the human world (assuming it's the same time/dimension as Renko/Mary) is that strawberries are synthetic.

Who knows, maybe spellcards/danmaku in general was a form of entertainment over there, using sufficiently advanced technology. Which somehow got put into magic.

Yeah.

Also not an expert on PoDD (or any of the 98 games, really), but didn't Yumemi come to Gensokyo because she was being laughed at back home for believing in magic? If that's the case I'd think she made/found spellcards herself and no one else wanted to have anything to do with them.

Or maybe she found the spellcards in Gensokyo in the future and when she came back she brought them with her. Cue self-resolving time paradox.