Touhou 12.8 The Great Fairy Wars English Patch

[Maav]

Okay, just as a clarification, since I want this to be as high-quality as possible.

1. We're going to leave it "Faily Wars" and leave a note in the readme?

2. Nobody voiced an opinion on translating the menu options (continue, give up and retry, etc) since the English is already on them. I personally think it would be nice if those were fully translated, but I'd need some help since the small text doesn't match up perfectly with the Japanese in some cases. If nobody else shows interest in it though, I'll just leave it, since the other English patches didn't bother with those either.

4. Just leave "Loading なう" as it is, right?

3. Aside from that, the only problems with the images are the ones in vgperson's last post, correct?

My oppinions:
1. Yeah.
2. No translation would be the best. Maybe fixing the "Yes Yes Yes" in the retry screen.
4. Yeah, too.
3. Nothing else I've noticed.

P.S.:
1. 2. 4. 3.?  :V

[Azure Lazuline]

1. 2. 4. 3.?  :V

I've had a total of 2 hours of sleep in the past two days, so I apologize.

[StrikerX22]

Good to hear it's coming to a close.

As long as the title screen gets a proper translation it won't be so bad to have a weird "faily" typo, though it's pretty stupid. But in the music room, if you click the song, it actually shows Fairy Wars in the lower description part... it's almost as if it were intentional there. Hard to say, but yeah it's safer to leave it.

I never did know why it said "dead parrot." How do you get that from make-inu? heh.

So the technical issue, does it seem difficult to work with, or is there actually a chance to have this released today-ish?

[Edit: Also, stupid suggestion: nau could be taken as "NAO" to at least translate it funny in a way. If it's possible, you could leave the hiragana behind so that we still know where it came from.]

[S. Nazerine]

@Azure Lazuline: yeah, my preference would be to leave the menu text as-is--just stick with the tradition. I'd also leave the "Yes Yes Yes" (I think it's funny), but maybe that's just me.

@StrikerX22: what NForza said. Though, I did do the help file translations pretty quickly and without going back to check them over (dialogue should be okay, vgperson did that on the wiki), so if you're really dying to do something???

[vgperson]

I don't think it's so much a technical "issue" as there's no one who knows HOW to insert the text or make a patching program around at the moment. (Images, though, we've apparently got.) But I don't know how these things have gone down in the past, other than a recollection that some past patches have been severely held up due to a lack of said person.

Regarding "all the translation has been done," does anyone in particular want to edit my ending translations, or should I just send what I've got straight to the aforementioned compiler-person? (I've got screencaps too, if necessary.)

[Kiefmaster99]

gensokyo.org's released one already.

[S. Nazerine]

Kudos to them, then. I guess in future I should keep an eye on translation efforts at the wiki, as well as here--the fact that Halbarad et al and I did the same stuff twice irks me.

[vgperson]

Huh. Well.

Seeing as the patch program only credits NForza, BrassBird, and me as translators, which one of the other two did the endings? He did translate

Spoiler:

the "unbeatable price fairy" pun in Ending 4 (B2)

correctly... right? Because if not, that will be my ONE REGRET.

[nintendonut888]

It changed Faily Wars, it sucks.

...

Just joking, it's awesome. Thanks for everyone's hard work, even those who didn't finish. Having a team being beaten in finishing a patch goes to show how much better off we are than back when there was nobody working on the patches.

[Kiefmaster99]

My only worry with correcting"Faily Wars" is that it masks a notable error, particularly to those who have never played Fairy Wars yet and are going straight to the patch. But whatever, it's fairly well known anyways, and minor.

They used some alt translations for some SC names, so more work for me.

They also went with Ruse Rain interestingly; I think that may make the most sense actually given the context of the comments.

[Azure Lazuline]

Okay, so since the other translation patch is out, that means that all my image editing work was wasted? I'm still happy the patch is out, it just kind of sucks for me... I'm not too sad, just a bit frustrated, I guess.

[S. Nazerine]

It happens, Azure--I can't tell you how many times I've been asked to translate some manga so someone can do a scanlation release and then had the requester back out on their end of the deal and/or had another group release first.

Which is why I don't translate manga anymore.

Anyway, good work to everybody who worked on that version, and very nice timing indeed!

[StrikerX22]

Well it's sad that it's for naught now. If it were manga, I'd still think it's worth it to have another release for preference, making a name for yourselves, competing in accuracy over speed etc.; but since it's a game that has to be patched and such, it does make it more complicated when different patches are introduced. You can always look over their work and make suggestions for a future update with the insights you've gained if you like, though.

I suppose with game patches, it's all the more important to look into who might already be involved before investing a lot.

[N-Forza]

Oh, so they used the Wiki translations. I thought that's that you guys were doing anyway.

[Prime 2.0]

What, you're going to throw in the towel to an incomplete patch?



You folks give up way too easily, I swear. Gensokyo.org patches also have this annoying tendency to leave out specific translations(like staff roll headers), mess up others(The difficulty settings are NOT "easy normal hard lunatic" in fairy wars), and never come with any sort of documentation; furthermore, if the 12.3 patch is any indication, we cannot expect future releases to be made solely because of errors or editing quibbles... and frankly, you have to do it yourself if you want to get something done right.

You can do better, and I sincerely hope that you don't trash all the effort made towards a quality patch just because somebody else rushed theirs out for Cirno day.

[Blumiere]

I'd rather an English patch that's actually of good quality and accuracy rather than one rushed with glitches left behind so it could be released on a deadline to meet some stupid meme, so yes, I agree with Prime and hope you guys will still release your own translation patch of this game. No point in just giving up now when you all have basically got everything ready and have a better patch planned out.

[Azure Lazuline]

Honestly, I didn't even check the patch... I was just having a really bad day and overreacted. I was more mad about there not being any communication between the two groups doing patches, and I didn't even know that there was another one in progress. It would have been much better to combine the two groups and work together. Anyway, downloading the patch now to check how everything looks...


Okay, their route selection graphics and boss name pictures are better (only slightly so for the latter, though their translation for the EX boss's title is very weird). I'm not really fond of the fonts that are used in most places though, like the "level intro" cards and the sidebar, though that's just preference. The help screen could go either way, too, though I like the font they used for it in the main menu. As for the actual translation, at least concerning what was my job to edit:
- "True Time" instead of "Real Time" is stupid
- "Times Used" instead of "Times Played" is even more stupid
- "Barely a Victory" sounds weird
- "I'll purify it all in ice" for the Lunatic description doesn't make much sense
- "Motivation" instead of "Fighting Spirit"... not so bad, but I still prefer the latter, especially since "Motiv Down" for the beams is very awkward
- "Ice Area" instead of "Area Frozen" could go either way, I'm not sure about this one

They also just romanized the window name instead of translating it, which seems strange. Also, I did change the on-field score graphics for mine (I think I did, anyway). I'll fix the few remaining things in my images and edit this post when I'm done.

[trancehime]

They also went with Ruse Rain interestingly; I think that may make the most sense actually given the context of the comments.

I was actually talking to some people with reference to that. There are far too many ways to interpret ルーズ, from Ruse to Lose to Loose (yes, the Japanese DO use that katakana for the word "loose," especially "loose socks"). It's not easy to pick the most correct translation while being accurate and with flavor at the same time.

You folks give up way too easily, I swear. Gensokyo.org patches also have this annoying tendency to leave out specific translations(like staff roll headers), mess up others(The difficulty settings are NOT "easy normal hard lunatic" in fairy wars), and never come with any sort of documentation; furthermore, if the 12.3 patch is any indication, we cannot expect future releases to be made solely because of errors or editing quibbles... and frankly, you have to do it yourself if you want to get something done right.

I can see complaining about some parts of untranslated content, but something as trivial as how many points you get for some things when most players in general DON'T PAY ATTENTION to it is a bit much.

[nintendonut888]

Chill out people (no pun intended). Isn't it a little sore to be badmouthing the patch? What inherently makes your translation better than theirs? Even if there's a couple typos here and there (and one point where they forgot a word entirely), I think the translation is very charming and does its job well.

[trancehime]

There's also the part that untranslated content is probably untranslated for a reason: Nobody gives a shit whether it's translated or not :3c

[Prime 2.0]

There's also the part that untranslated content is probably untranslated for a reason: Nobody gives a shit whether it's translated or not :3c

I can see complaining about some parts of untranslated content, but something as trivial as how many points you get for some things when most players in general DON'T PAY ATTENTION to it is a bit much.

You didn't pay much attention to the PoFV patch backlash, did you?  :V

Some of the very same points that have been brought up against this patch are re-runs of the complaints against that(including the on-field score), which were promptly addressed under the scrutiny and feedback of the Shrinemaiden community, which isn't something we can expect to happen here.

Also, no thoughts on the point of documentation? I'm not sure how many people this actually occurs to, but restricting the ability to change text and images in the game to only the makers of the English patch runs counter to the entire point of expanding the audience that can fully enjoy the game's content. Why should anyone have to reinvent the wheel just to let people play the game in their native language?

Chill out people (no pun intended). Isn't it a little sore to be badmouthing the patch? What inherently makes your translation better than theirs?

Were it only a few errors, or only a lack of documentation, I wouldn't be so hissy about it. But put the two together, and a staunch fact of life comes in to make the whole debacle unacceptable; you can see what I'm referring to in this very topic.

As soon as a patch comes out, it becomes exceptionally harder to find willing people with the specialized skills necessary to do work on an alternative. Because this patch was rushed out, there is an extremely likely chance that a superior, and open patch that otherwise would have happened never will. In the long term, it is a detriment. I see no reason to hold my tongue when referring to something that so violently stagnates improvement in the international Touhou community; good enough is not good enough if it prevents something better.

[Azure Lazuline]

I'm not really badmouthing the patch as a whole. I think it's wonderful. I just think there's a few things that our patch is doing better and a couple very weird translations they used that could use improvement. Instead of fighting like a bunch of stupid fairies, we need to contact the gensokyo.org people and combine the best of both patches!

So here's my contribution, the final version of the image files (and the .psd files are available on request if you like the style but need to fix a translation - feel free to edit them to your liking). I have no idea how to contact anyone at gensokyo.org, so someone else can tell them about this and get a team going. Perhaps take a vote on each of the images for which translation/edit is better?

I don't want to see any work go to waste - either ours or gensokyo.org's - but if they decide to be stubborn, we should just keep going and make this patch better, for the reasons that are being brought up.

[nintendonut888]

And pray tell what is so wrong with the patch? I have played four of the six routes and extra as well, and the single greatest mistake I see is that in Cirno's last line before the 3 fairies fight in A2 she forgets a word, one that can easily be filled in. Sure a version 1.01 to fix these minor mistakes would be appreciated, but what is so horrific and unforgivable again? Cirno's dialogue is delightfully hammy, as I imagine it was meant to be, and the three fairies have nice dialogue as well.

[trancehime]

To be honest, I have little reason to care about using translation patches because quite simply - what use do I have for that? I can enjoy the games without needing it. So to address the first point - No, I did not pay attention to that "PoFV patch backlash" simply because I was never around to see it. Forgive me for my "uneducated" opinion, then. The only reason I DID get the PoFV patch was because other people insisted I get it for netplay. Otherwise I would never have used it.

Apparently this entire deal is from a technical standpoint, so I'm going to bow out before I force words into people's mouths. I would only ever complain about a translation of the actual translation itself were of a shitty quality, but from what I see, it's perfectly fine.

[Prime 2.0]

Sure a version 1.01 to fix these minor mistakes would be appreciated, but what is so horrific and unforgivable again?

The occasional mistranslation or odd translation in supporting text, untranslated stuff such as the on-field score indications, the lack of documentation(You'll notice I dedicated an entire paragraph to the reason for this one), but mainly that rushing this patch out for Cirno day makes getting help to develop a patch for the game more difficult, which combined with the historical lack of post-release support from gensokyo.org means that nothing will be fixed, or improved. You may have noticed that the latter point was the thesis of my argument.

Look, I just don't want the people working on this patch to give up just because somebody else already made theirs. We shouldn't have a flame war over the semantics of that.

I don't want to see any work go to waste - either ours or gensokyo.org's - but if they decide to be stubborn, we should just keep going and make this patch better, for the reasons that are being brought up.

This sentiment, to me, is ideal.

[Tengukami]

Regardless of whether gensokyo.org's patch was good or bad, I still see no reason why we can't complete our own.

[trancehime]

Look, I just don't want the people working on this patch to give up just because somebody else already made theirs. We shouldn't have a flame war over the semantics of that.

I don't think anyone who was already working on it here plans to give up ANYWAY so what exactly is getting your panties in a twist aside from what you've mentioned? DDD:

[Kiefmaster99]

Assuming you guys are still up to finishing the translation, there are some SC translations, which for the sake of consistency b/w the two patches, should be changed. The differences are mostly just using synonyms.

Light Wall "Wall Break" -> Light Barrier "Wall Break"
Sun/Moon/Starblaze -> Sun/Moon/Starfire

Loose Rain -> Ruse Rain (See prev note. Also yeah, there are at least 3 x 2 ways this could be translated [Lose/Loose/Ruse + Rain/Reign]. Prankish indeed ZUN. Though ZUN using 'prank' in the comment does suggest 'Ruse' is more fitting.)


There may be more changes; I'll let you guys know if I see more.

[S. Nazerine]

@Prime 2.0: chill, man, chill. As TranceHime said (and Azure just demonstrated--thanks, Azure!), no one who was already working on this patch has just thrown in the towel and moved on.
The problem being that the one person we need now--someone to actually make the patch--has been missing from the start.

@NForza: oh. I was wondering why you never posted in this topic. I guess that explains it, then.

@Kiefmaster: thanks!

So, basically, we need someone who can build a patch. And then I think we'll want some number of people to test it out and make sure there are no errors whatsoever. And then we want to put together one heck of a README. Otherwise, it'll be no "better" than gensokyo.org's, so it'll just be a source of confusion.
Anybody interested?

[Tengukami]

Maybe I've been out of the loop here, but, where's drywall been?