Author Topic: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!  (Read 101311 times)

Decade

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Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 6 - FINAL DAY
« Reply #480 on: August 27, 2010, 07:49:28 PM »
EBWOP: "either you'd have to be 100% certain they're town" should obviously be "either you'd have to be 100% certain they're scum".

Kiva-la

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Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 6 - FINAL DAY
« Reply #481 on: August 27, 2010, 07:55:28 PM »
Oh, ShKanon, don't forget that Sailor Moon declared yesterday that she would target me with the Medal if Stuffman flipped Town, so she also lied about that.

Anyway, still re-reading, and won't say more on this until Sailor Moon's had a chance to defend herself. (It is the fair thing, after all)

Kiva-la

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Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 6 - FINAL DAY
« Reply #482 on: August 27, 2010, 08:03:52 PM »
Forgot to mention that I targeted Evangeline because I thought she was one of the next scummiest, and again, was hoping for something negative to happen to her. For me, it was a toss-up between her and Sailor Moon. My gut said Evangeline.

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Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 6 - FINAL DAY
« Reply #483 on: August 27, 2010, 08:46:38 PM »
Scroll down past all the quotes (except the ending one of course) if you want to skip to what I feel is my best defense against Shkannon's accusations. After that, the rest of my post feels very wimpy in comparison.

Oh yeah, and sorry about lolquotestriping.  :derp:

Sailor Moon, why did you pass the medal on to Stone Mason? What made him your next highest priority?
There was you, Shkannon, and Stone Mason. Shkannon I felt was town. I thought it was more likely Stone Mason was scum then you.
Oh, ShKanon, don't forget that Sailor Moon declared yesterday that she would target me with the Medal if Stuffman flipped Town, so she also lied about that.
What? I said I was going to target Stone Mason or Evangeline, not you.

In a previous post I said that I was for certain going to throw it at one person whose identity I fail to recall right now, unless Stuffman flipped town in which case it would be you or that person and I wasn't sure which. There was a lot of big information revealed after that post, and I changed my mind about how I wanted to use it.

It gets more interesting than that. By now it's probably common knowledge that we are untargetable (Umineko barrier magic and all that), and N3 we were targeted by Razeluxe. There was also a death N3, and there must be at most 1 scum remaining, because, well, otherwise this wouldn't be LYLO, this would be a scum win of the game. Therefore either there is a secondary killing party that used their NK that night, and scum hit someone that was protected somehow, orrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr... you'd have to be the killing party.
Or, if Razeluxe is scum, he can kill and use his ability in the same night.
Quote
Speaking of which, has anyone owned up to roleblocking McClane N3? Because it certainly wasn't Raze, considering he did indeed target me, and it certainly wasn't myself either, so, uh, yeah. >_>
Don't think so. Maybe it was someone who died between then and now?

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Furthermore, Sailor Moon, why were you going to place the medal on someone in a day which otherwise was likely to be LYLO? (given that it was pseudo-LYLO the day before, and we failed to lynch scum that day). That seems like a generally anti-town decision to make, as it makes one player easier to lynch. Oh, and Mr.Mason flipped Town. How convenient.

Moreover, since the Silver Medal gives you an extra vote to place on someone in LYLO and thus is inherently an Anti-Town thing to use in such a situation, assuming that you killed Evangeline, regardless of the method used, why not also use the Silver Medal on her, thus killing it along with Evangeline? That would be the proper pro-Town method of doing things.
I see the logic behind these things things you're saying. I wish I had thought like this last night. But I was thinking in terms of "I really don't think the other two choices are scum so it must be this one!" and wanted to help get the person who I thought must be scum, lynched.

I didn't even realize how, assuming scum didn't also target Evangeline (Which would be stupid since she was the top suspect, they would not want to kill her), there would be three people left and only two votes needed to lynch, therefore meaning Mason could be quickhammered by any single person. That was my mistake. I'm sorry.

Quote
Wait, if you claim to be a town one-shot vig who shot Evangeline, then you must have had some pretty huge bollocks to place the Silver Medal on someone for today... either you'd have to be 100% certain they're town scum (moreso than... the rest of the town as you're basically deciding the lynch for that day!), or you'd have to be certain that the scum nightkill was otherwise blocked, because then we'd be facing 3P LYLO with someone already at L-1... someone who already flipped town.
I'm sorry for not realizing this. I also didn't realize I could eliminate the Silver Medal with my Evangeline kill, partially since people holding the medal had been nk'd multiple times before. Although now I realize that OH DUH, they got to pass it with their night action while they died.

Quote
Oh, by the way, Sailor Moon manages to pull off somehow actually not voting for a single person for almost the entire day, only finally voting for StuffMan around deadline when their lynch was virtually guaranteed. Classy. Real classy there.
Because it was, uh, y'know, potential LyLo. And at that point, Stuffman and Evangeline were tied in votes as well, so it could have gone to either of them.

Quote
So yeah. Care to tell us what you were up to Night 3, my good Sailor Moon?
Having a cup of tea? :derp: Nothing much, really.

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And why you decided to place the Silver Medal on someone who flipped Town knowing that if you really were a one-shot town vig instead of, y'know, scum, we'd be in 3P LYLO and a mis-placing of it would cost town the game? Especially when if you really were a vig, you could have simply gotten rid of it by placing it on Evangeline before shooting her? Because I'm really curious about all of these things right about now. Really curious.
I took the idiot ball and ran with it. It happens to the best of us sometimes, and I tend to do that anyway. Not that that is ANY kind of excuse, it really isn't, but there's nothing else I can say on the matter.

Okay, now here's something I have to say in my defense. This is the part of my post I feel is very important.

If I was scum, that means I had a one-shot kill I didn't use until the night of LyLo. I then proceeded to claim the kill and make up a ridiculous reason why I hadn't used it earlier. And I used said one-shot kill to get rid of the person everyone else thought was certainly scum and would probably lynch in LyLo.

Not only THAT, BUT, it means with the regular nightkill, I killed Stone Mason, my OTHER person I was calling as scum (Which person was standard nk or one-shot doesn't matter but w/e), AND! I GOT RID OF THE SILVER FUCKING MEDAL ON HIM THAT WOULD HAVE WON ME THE GAME AS SOON AS THE NEXT DAY STARTED.

If I was scum, why the FUCK would I do something so INCREDIBLY retarded. Seriously. I'd be beating myself in the face if that happened. I'd have just thrown away a very easy win. So why, again, does killing Stone Mason+Evangeline and destroying the Silver Medal make me scum, Shkannon?
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Because I'm really curious about all of these things right about now. Really curious.

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Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 6 - FINAL DAY
« Reply #484 on: August 27, 2010, 08:55:44 PM »
So why, again, does killing Stone Mason+Evangeline and destroying the Silver Medal make me scum, Shkannon?
Worded this badly. Meant to be more like

"So why, again, would I kill Stone Mason+Evangeline and destroy the Silver Medal if I was scum, Shkannon?"

Since doing so would me I removed the townie everyone thought was scum, as well as my other person I was chasing, plus destroying the item that would pretty much autowin LyLo for me. Something even the derpiest scum should be smart enough to not do.

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Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 6 - FINAL DAY
« Reply #485 on: August 27, 2010, 09:12:02 PM »
If I was scum, that means I had a one-shot kill I didn't use until the night of LyLo. I then proceeded to claim the kill and make up a ridiculous reason why I hadn't used it earlier. And I used said one-shot kill to get rid of the person everyone else thought was certainly scum and would probably lynch in LyLo.
Orrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr... you could just be lying. That's much more likely of an option, just saying.

Quote from: Lying Scum
If I was scum, why the FUCK would I do something so INCREDIBLY retarded. Seriously. I'd be beating myself in the face if that happened. I'd have just thrown away a very easy win. So why, again, does killing Stone Mason+Evangeline and destroying the Silver Medal make me scum, Shkannon?
You're assuming that you have to be responsible for BOTH the Evangeline AND the Stone Mason NKs, which is patently false. While it's possible that you were scum with a 1-shot NK that you used in the most retarded manner imagineable, it's far more likely that you're just, erm, lying scum.

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Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 6 - FINAL DAY
« Reply #486 on: August 27, 2010, 09:20:12 PM »
Then please, tell me how both Evangeline and Stone Mason died. If I'm lying and have no one-shot kill, and Razeluxe is saying his ability did a Cop on her, then it'd have to be either you or Stone Mason who killed one, and implies Stone Mason decided not to use his kill till just now if it's him. If it's you, well, then you can go ahead and explain.


Kiva-la

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Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 6 - FINAL DAY
« Reply #487 on: August 27, 2010, 11:20:10 PM »
Going to be gone for the rest of the day, so I'll chime in now while I can.

You're right, Sailor Moon, that's a derp moment for me. I accidentally mixed up some stuff in my head. I hope you'll understand, given that a lot was said yesterday.

As for other stuff, that's between you two right now, but I will say that Sailor Moon is telling the truth about killing Evangeline. That much is absolutely certain. Also, mindgames aren't better than insta-winning the game. However, given the level of meta I'm seeing here, everything lines up perfectly for ShKanon to have seen that Sailor Moon would be passing the medal to either Evangeline or Stone Mason, and that Evangeline was looking bad. As such, the medal would probably have gone to Evangeline, and she kills Stone Mason to get rid of who she thinks is the towniest player at the time. Then, there's a good chance that Evangeline gets killed right away because of starting at L-1. Then, when they both end up dead, she pulls off a gambit to make Sailor Moon look bad for... agh, brain fart. I lost where I was going. But I'll say that if I had to vote, right here and now, it'd be ShKanon.

Need to go now, bye.

Suwako Moriya

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Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 6 - FINAL DAY
« Reply #488 on: August 29, 2010, 02:11:49 AM »
Poking Shkanon for inactivity. Again.
The only thing this dimension does well is show its ass. We might as well applaud it! - Albert Burneko

Well, this game happened.

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Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 6 - FINAL DAY
« Reply #489 on: August 29, 2010, 02:33:38 AM »
Ugh. First off, I am going to be very annoyed if I lose the game due to other people failing at basic predicate logic, so, therefore, a bit of a lesson in first-order logic and implications. First...

Quote from: Razeluxe Meitzen
As for other stuff, that's between you two right now, but I will say that Sailor Moon is telling the truth about killing Evangeline. That much is absolutely certain. Also, mindgames aren't better than insta-winning the game. However, given the level of meta I'm seeing here, everything lines up perfectly for ShKanon to have seen that Sailor Moon would be passing the medal to either Evangeline or Stone Mason, and that Evangeline was looking bad. As such, the medal would probably have gone to Evangeline, and she kills Stone Mason to get rid of who she thinks is the towniest player at the time. Then, there's a good chance that Evangeline gets killed right away because of starting at L-1. Then, when they both end up dead, she pulls off a gambit to make Sailor Moon look bad for... agh, brain fart. I lost where I was going. But I'll say that if I had to vote, right here and now, it'd be ShKanon.
First off, no, it's *not* between the two of us, as I caught Sailor Moon in a lie and she has since then managed to not explain it away in a plausible manner. Secondly...

Remember when a player named Alice would rant on about the failings of town here, and one of the points was that Conspiracy Theories Are Bad, Yo; Don't Use Them? Well, yeah, you're using one of them. In fact, you're doing the exact same thing you did at the end of D3 where you seem to have everything figured out but are instead posting what amounts to little more than complete nonsense. First off: Mason as the towniest player? How in the heck? Scummiest perhaps, but certainly not the towniest player. Secondly, assuming that Evangeline made it to the beginning of this day alive, and had the Silver Medal placed on her, she'd start out at L-2, because we'd be in 4-player LYLO. Assuming that Sailor Moon is town combined with her current logic makes absolutely no sense, because this would necessitate her to kill someone and fail to realise that placing the Silver Medal on someone else with a scum nightkill going through would cause town to insta-lose upon daybreak (more-or-less) if she had guessed wrong. Now, assuming that she is lying scum it makes perfect sense! She offs Evangeline, and tries to push Mason closer to a lynch the next day. Mason winds up dead, but there's 2 NKs. Claim some harmless role with details that can't really be verified (for instance, it could very well be that Evangeline is Nobu - absolutely nothing in-game confirms this to us at the moment), and if you don't mess it up, you pretty much win, despite the person you placed the Silver Medal on having died.

Secondly, a scum gambit doesn't make any sense if scum could already easily win without the gambit: the point of a gambit is that it is a heavy-risk, heavy-reward action undertaken where the reward outweighs the risk taken, or the reward is needed to save and/or secure your position in the game, which is also currently so precarious that the risk undertaken winds up being next-to-minimal anyway. If scum can already win, they are not going to attempt to throw the game only to win in a more Rube-Goldbergian fashion. No, just... no. That just doesn't happen, simply because there are too many avenues for a gambit to go wrong in - which is why gambits are only used in specific circumstances, not just "whenever one feels like using a gambit for no good reason"

Thirdly, your scenario requires me to have a fairly good level of ESP so as to predict where the silver medal is going to land. Which makes it even more absurd, really. tl;dr step back, reread the thread, and think about things for a bit before posting something like that again, please.

Quote from: Lying Scum
Then please, tell me how both Evangeline and Stone Mason died. If I'm lying and have no one-shot kill, and Razeluxe is saying his ability did a Cop on her, then it'd have to be either you or Stone Mason who killed one, and implies Stone Mason decided not to use his kill till just now if it's him. If it's you, well, then you can go ahead and explain.
Anyway, onto Sailor Moon.  Simple, Evangeline died because you nightkilled her. As the last remaining member of the scumteam.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for Mason? That was us. We have a one-shot vig, but we lose untargetability and notification of who targeted us the same night that we use it. Overall, there was no reason for us to really use it at all, but when StuffMan was lynched yesterday in pseudo-LYLO, what I had assumed is that we were facing 2 scum, and the reason why it wasn't completely LYLO was due to vig shots. Thus, a shot in the dark, so to speak. Now, why Stone Mason? We had suspected Evangeline all day yesterday, but how LYLO played out strongly suggested her not being scum. Moreover, a lot of her scumminess rested on her interactions and awkwardness with StuffMan, who flipped town. She still looked awful, but enough of her posts could be explained away as merely bad play, instead of scummy play, which made us consider looking elsewhere. Razeluxe to us looked strongly town, and as we were working under the assumption of separate people sending in the NK and the RB (incidentally, this, as well as the 15-player setup, were some of the more major points in favour of there being 2 scum instead of 1), it was a strong point in favour of him being town. That left you and Mr.Mason. You I had cleared up to now mostly on meta (just goes to show you that I should always follow my own advice in that indiscriminate use of meta is always bad), with a large supplement from what looked like an initially quite good voting record (which instead turned into a 30 Bus Pileup to the point where I'm actually getting flashbacks to WTC LYLO#1, rofl), and Mason had been low-content, low-volume and iffy posting/voting all game, thus us targeting him.

The reason for us not taking the Silver Medal into account was that we assumed that us not doing anything => game over, scum win, combined with the fact that we didn't think that anyone'd be dumb enough to use the Silver Medal in LYLO anyway. Apparently we were wrong in both assumptions, but it caught you nicely in a lie, which ultimately works just as well for town.

In fact, I'm so certain of you being scum right now that I'm going to vote you. Right now. Might as well put my money where my mouth is, after all.
##Vote: Sailor Moon

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Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 6 - FINAL DAY
« Reply #490 on: August 29, 2010, 01:47:47 PM »
Quote
Anyway, onto Sailor Moon.  Simple, Evangeline died because you nightkilled her. As the last remaining member of the scumteam.
If I was scum, I'd much rather use a one-shot Doctor on her then kill her. Everyone was looking ready to turbolynch her when LyLo started. There is no way in hell I'd kill her if I was scum, because it just seems retarded.

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We have a one-shot vig, but we lose untargetability and notification of who targeted us the same night that we use it
That's a pretty cool power mang. No, really, I mean that. Err, I'll go back to actually playing mafier now...

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In fact, I'm so certain of you being scum right now that I'm going to vote you. Right now.
Mmkay then.

Analyzation aside, this now makes it pretty much impossible for a lynch on Razeluxe to happen whether I wanted to or not, and things fall into Not Me Instead Of Me Territory, so there's really no reason for me to not go ahead and ##Vote:Shkannon now.

It's up to Razeluxe to decide who he thinks is scum. I'll give you a little food for thought, though.

If I'm scum, then I NK'd on LyLo the person everyone felt was scummiest, which makes no sense. If I'm town, then as Shkannon said, I failed to realize that either A.It was possible for me to destroy the Silver Medal, or B.That it would decide the game outcome completely off of my decision.

I guess either way I'm a derp, but the situation with me being scum, well, that's something that IMO would be a LOT easier to realize that I shouldn't be doing.

If Shkannon is scum, she NK'd Mason, thought everyone would vote Evangeline. Then Evangeline dies out of nowhere and she goes "osht" and jumps on the townie with the shakier foundation and who conveniently claimed the NK.

If she's town, well, she NK'd Mason because she thought he was scum and other people didn't seem to be seeing it. Then she goes to town with my claiming having the power to NK, which, well, if she's town, is a rather strong argument against me.

Oh, I forgot to address this.
Quote from: Shkannon
I caught Sailor Moon in a lie and she has since then managed to not explain it away in a plausible manner
I have.

I NK'd Evangeline. Scum killed Stone Mason. You have claimed killing Stone Mason. You are scum. Yay! Stone Mason is a much more logical kill for scum then Evangeline is, wouldn't you agree?

Or Razeluxe is scum and the kill overlapped with someone (Or one of us is plain outright lying about having a kill at all), but the one thing we both seem to agree on right now is that Razeluxe is town, so!

Suwako Moriya

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Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 6 - FINAL DAY
« Reply #491 on: August 29, 2010, 03:45:27 PM »
Vote Chart

Sailor Moon (1): Shannon
Shannon (1): Sailor Moon

3 votes in play means 2 will lynch. There is no time limit.
The only thing this dimension does well is show its ass. We might as well applaud it! - Albert Burneko

Well, this game happened.

Kiva-la

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Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 6 - FINAL DAY
« Reply #492 on: August 29, 2010, 06:48:33 PM »
Honestly, at this point, you're both obviously telling the truth about your victims last night. The only real thing to look at is who is lying about it being part of their role. And, honestly, Sailor Moon pulled so much freaking derp last night if she were scum. I am going to vote ShKanon, because if Sailor Moon really is scum, then congrats. You managed to completely derp it up in the most fantastic way, and this really isn't much of a victory. I will be honest here. I am voting ShKanon because Scum!Moon was just blindingly idiotic last night, whereas Town!Moon was just a little derp-y.

Actually, before I do so, I want to entertain 2 things.

1) Sailor Moon, did you or did you not Role Block McClane N3.

2) What if you're both telling the truth about having one-shot vigs. That would explain how there could have been no today. If you had both hit separate people, and the scum!kill had hit a third person, there would be 1 Town vs. 1 scum. Scum auto-win. Thoughts on this, please?

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Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 6 - FINAL DAY
« Reply #493 on: August 29, 2010, 07:29:04 PM »
1) Sailor Moon, did you or did you not Role Block McClane N3.

2) What if you're both telling the truth about having one-shot vigs. That would explain how there could have been no today. If you had both hit separate people, and the scum!kill had hit a third person, there would be 1 Town vs. 1 scum. Scum auto-win. Thoughts on this, please?
1) Nope. Either there was a misunderstanding (Which I doubt), or the roleblocker is someone who died between now and then. Or something REALLY weird happened. I'd guess it's the second, as in, guilty party already died by now.

2)That's what I was thinking; also, if I plopped the Silver Medal on a townie when there's 3 people, then it'd basically be the same as yesterday being LyLo. Or if Shkannon broke the role restriction again and had that modvote.

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Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 6 - FINAL DAY
« Reply #494 on: August 29, 2010, 07:54:30 PM »
Shannon here.  It seems like my problems with my brain are coming back, so please bear with me.  I feel like I can't wait for Kanon, so that's why I'm posting this now instead of waiting.

Quote from: Razeluxe
You managed to completely derp it up in the most fantastic way, and this really isn't much of a victory.
Please think about what you are saying.  You are basically saying that Sailor Moon is too scummy to be scum.  Currently she is saying that she would have put the silver medal on to someone that is now confirmed town as a 1-shot vig.  That would have been an insta loss for town!  Not to mention that her role says that she can't use her shot whenever she wants?  This doesn't even include the aspects of her play that we pointed out in the previous post.  I could have used mine whenever I wanted to, but doing so would mean that I lost my untargetablilty AND my ability to self-watch.  I could live without the former, but I thought the latter was useful enough to hang on to.

Quote from: Sailor Moon
If I was scum, I'd much rather use a one-shot Doctor on her then kill her
This statement is silly.  Before last night there were five people alive.  As scum, you would not be aware of our shot, therefore, in your mind, if you did not shoot there would be five people alive.  Lynch + NK = 3 people alive the next day.  In other words, if you DIDN'T shoot, you would have to survive for another day.  In other words, yes you would much rather shoot her as scum than protect her.

And if we're going to use "probable NK targets" as reasoning for why people can't be scum, then please explain why I didn't shoot Raze last night if I was scum.  By my role he is 100% confirmed town because he cannot be the roleblocker.  He targeted me N3 and I was NOT targeted with a kill (just to confirm that you are notified if you are targeted with a kill @mod: if someone is targeted with a kill and they live to see the next day will they be notified (via doctor protect, untargetablility etc.)?).  So, even if scum could NK and use their night abilities there is no possible way for him to be the roleblocker.  Why would I leave confirmed town alive if I were scum?

Quote from: Raze
2) What if you're both telling the truth about having one-shot vigs. That would explain how there could have been no today. If you had both hit separate people, and the scum!kill had hit a third person, there would be 1 Town vs. 1 scum. Scum auto-win. Thoughts on this, please?
I will discuss this with Kanon when he gets on because it is certainly interesting.  I'm not quite sure how it would work as of now, so do you mind if I wait on answering this until Kanon gets online?  I'm not exactly confident in my ability to think critically right now.

Raze, I currently do not understand how you can dismiss Sailor Moon as "too scummy to be scum" right now.  Can you please type up a case on me for me to respond to?  If you have time can you also look through Sailor Moon's play so far and explain why you think she is town?

Suwako Moriya

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  • Welcome to the human race!
Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 6 - FINAL DAY
« Reply #495 on: August 29, 2010, 07:58:33 PM »
If someone is attacked at night and they survive, they will be told an attempt was made on their life, though obviously they will not be told why the attack failed.
The only thing this dimension does well is show its ass. We might as well applaud it! - Albert Burneko

Well, this game happened.

Suwako Moriya

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  • Welcome to the human race!
Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 6 - FINAL DAY
« Reply #496 on: August 30, 2010, 03:27:52 AM »
I should probably also point out that there is still time to submit guesses for players. Given the number of people that slowly dribbled in player guesses, I can't really check you all to tell you how you did, so I suggest submitting a full list of all your guesses some time soon.
The only thing this dimension does well is show its ass. We might as well applaud it! - Albert Burneko

Well, this game happened.

Suwako Moriya

  • Hey you with the pretty face
  • *
  • Welcome to the human race!
Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 6 - FINAL DAY
« Reply #497 on: August 30, 2010, 11:58:40 PM »
If someone could post, that would be great.

Fake edit: Someone still alive in the game, you nimrods.
The only thing this dimension does well is show its ass. We might as well applaud it! - Albert Burneko

Well, this game happened.

Suwako Moriya

  • Hey you with the pretty face
  • *
  • Welcome to the human race!
Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 6 - FINAL DAY
« Reply #498 on: August 31, 2010, 03:22:24 AM »
All three players have been prodded for inactivity. Anyone that does not post within the next 24 hours will be modkilled.
The only thing this dimension does well is show its ass. We might as well applaud it! - Albert Burneko

Well, this game happened.

Kiva-la

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Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 6 - FINAL DAY
« Reply #499 on: August 31, 2010, 05:12:06 AM »
I... honestly don't have much more to say. I'm still waiting for the rest of the ShKannon reply. Which I was expecting a long time ago. Or at least something else from Sailor Moon in the meanwhile. This silence? Definitely unexpected.

And until I have full and complete thoughts from the both of you, I honestly don't have more to say. I will, however, vote one of you (probably at random) by this time tomorrow if I haven't gotten the full and honest truth from both of you. ("full" being directed at ShKannon, "honest" being directed at... well... both of you, though more Sailor Moon)

Actually, screw it. Let's not make the mod wait. By noon tomorrow, PST. If I haven't heard back from both of you (including opinions on what the other has just said) by then, I vote. And not even I know where my vote will land, so...

Kiva-la

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Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 6 - FINAL DAY
« Reply #500 on: August 31, 2010, 05:13:50 AM »
EBWOP: I know that I'm only in the position I am now because scum thinks I'll be the easiest to mislead. As such, my patience is thin, and thus my actions.

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Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 6 - FINAL DAY
« Reply #501 on: August 31, 2010, 05:48:25 AM »
Okay, so Kanon and I talked about your question and we have come to the conclusion that you are completely missing the point.  I'm going to try to explain this as best I can.

Okay, so last night there were two kills. I know one of them came from a pro-town vig, so I have a hard time believing that there would be two pro-town vigs, but I will try to not use my personal role information as a reason in any of this.

Right, so the two people that died were Stone Mason and Evangeline. They both flipped town, therefore we know that they did not fire off the scum NK.

Then there's you, Raze. Our role information had you confirmed as town since the start of the day.  If that's not enough you have not hammered either of us. Therefore you are town and could not have fired the scum NK. Moreover, this completely confirms you as town right now.

So, the only people that could have fired the scum NK are Sailor Moon and myself. In other words, no matter how you look at it, it is not possible for there to be two pro-town vigs. One of the kills last night *MUST* have been the scum NK.

Anyway, now, let's take a look at Sailor Moon's roleclaim at the start of today:

-She claimed a JOAT of some kind.
-She claimed that she could ONLY use the vig if she was alive in LYLO or was somehow killed.
-The last in-game day was also LYLO, even though it was pseudo-LYLO, we were still operating under LYLO rules/a LYLO time limit. Therefore, why didn't she use it N4?

Now, the second one is also interesting: how does she know when to shoot? Does the mod tell her when? Moreover, the third point is also interesting: why not shoot the first time around, and shoot now? None of it makes any sense, really. Anyway:

Let's go over why I shot Stone Mason again:
- I thought the only reason it was potential LYLO instead of outright LYLO was because of my vig shot. In other words, I thought that if I DIDN'T shot the game would be over and the town would lose. Moreover, what information we had up to this point about night actions agreed with the existence of two remaining scum, and the numbers (15 players at start of game) also agreed with two remaining scum.
- So, we spent the night thinking about pairs, and this is what we came up with:
- Razeluxe and Evangeline could not be scum alone or with each other because they both targeted me N3 and I was not hit by a kill (IE, they can't be the roleblocker), but they could be scum with Stone Mason or Sailor Moon.
- Stone Mason could be scum with just about everyone really. If he were scum, then he probably was the roleblocker.
- Based on Sailor Moon's earlier actions I thought it was unlikely that she was scum. However, if she was scum she was probably scum with either Stone Mason or Evangeline because it would mean that she was a hardcore busser.

So, I thought that if there was two or more scum left that Stone Mason pretty much had to be one of them. The only team that didn't feel totally weird that didn't involve Stone Mason was Evangeline and Sailor Moon. I also calculated that on the off chance there was one scum instead of two alive that, even if I did hit a townie, it would still be a three person LYLO and the game wouldn't end immediately. So, I not only saw no reason to NOT take the shot, I thought I HAD to take the shot or the game would be over. Compare the above to this:

Quote from: Lying Scum
And lastly, I have a one-shot kill, but I can only use it when I die, or if I'm alive on the night of LyLo. Night 5 I was told I could use my shot, and I targeted Evangeline. Everyone else wanted to kill her; if she was scum, then yay I got rid of her, if she wasn't scum, then thank goodness I just stopped Town from lynching her on LyLo and losing the game.

Okay: first off - she just went with what everyone else thought, despite the fact that fucking up would be bad? We spent hours trying to figure out who to shoot, and SM decides just to off Evangeline because lol she might be scummy even though the previous day she didn't really notice too much about Evangeline at all? Oh, and let's not forget the glorious silver medal nonsense, because this is the key point of why she is lying:

We know that one of us two MUST be scum. Assuming that we are scum, and Sailor Moon is town, then she had to have shot someone, had large enough cojones to place the silver medal on someone else even after knowing that if she missed, this would be 3P LYLO with someone at one vote, and claim this is all pro-townie.

Now, assuming Sailor Moon is scum, this argument falls apart, because we aren't in control of an extra vote, and furthermore made the fairly reasonable assumption that the silver medal was not going to be used today, because it is LYLO and Doublevotes in LYLO r teh bad.

I do not think I can explain my argument any more clearly than that. Please do not dismiss Sailor Moon as "too stupid to be scum." Intelligence is a null tell and should not factor into whether or not you think someone is scum or town - roles are randomly distributed, and thus it is not any more likely for an idiot to be scum than it is for someone competent/intelligent to be scum. Please think about our claims again, please look at my cases again and really think about who is town and who is scum. Thank you.

Kiva-la

  • Kiva-la
Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 6 - FINAL DAY
« Reply #502 on: August 31, 2010, 06:05:39 AM »
* Razeluxe Meitzen nods.

Pure logic. That's what I was looking for. It factors in everything said and done, discarding what is genuinely useless. It is also not trying to get me to think of her as scum, but rather just tears apart her case.

In all honesty, I was never going to vote against you, ShKannon. I was just hoping to bring out desperation, and see where that would leave you both. There wasn't enough on you to actually condemn you without using conspiracy theories of some kind, and thus I was hoping that Sailor Moon would flub up. She was the only one with a case on her (and I maintain that her ability to call scum vs. town most of the game is disturbing) and I was hoping that either you would do this, or she would try and do this and fail because she can't. She would have had to rely on some sort of tactic to convince me. Worst-case scenario was you both get to pleading, in which case I vote Sailor Moon anyway because I sincerely believe she's lying about not having the roleblocking. While her role sounded plausible, it also sounded very... lame for a role madness game. And I mean "lame" like a "lame limb."

Anyway, ##Vote: Sailor Moon because I'm certain of it now.

And I will be eating SO MUCH CROW if I'm wrong here, but let's hope I'm not.

Decade

  • Decade
Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 6 - FINAL DAY
« Reply #503 on: August 31, 2010, 06:10:45 AM »
Addendum:

Quote from: Lying Scum
If I was scum, I'd much rather use a one-shot Doctor on her then kill her. Everyone was looking ready to turbolynch her when LyLo started. There is no way in hell I'd kill her if I was scum, because it just seems retarded.
This is just ridiculous.
A) Nobody is going to turbolynch anyone at the start of freaking LYLO unless they are: A) Scum or B) Want to lose the game. There has been more than one game on this site where the obvious pick for scum on the previous day was the wrong pick on the current day, and in at least one instance (WTC) this was the case at LYLO (and in that game, also the case on the day before LYLO, too).
B) Ignoring that delicious little detail, NK WIFOM is absolutely silly, especially because, y'know, it's such WIFOM-prone information that it's virtually always completely useless. Therefore, there's usually no reason for scum to NK person A over person B assuming all are equally likely to be a threat both in terms of competence as town, and in terms of their role. Therefore, your statement here is both useless and utterly moronic and should do absolutely nothing to dissuade anyone from thinking that you're scum.

Suwako Moriya

  • Hey you with the pretty face
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  • Welcome to the human race!
Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 6 - FINAL DAY
« Reply #504 on: August 31, 2010, 06:12:37 AM »
Stop posting, the game is over!
The only thing this dimension does well is show its ass. We might as well applaud it! - Albert Burneko

Well, this game happened.

Suwako Moriya

  • Hey you with the pretty face
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  • Welcome to the human race!
Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 6 - FINAL DAY
« Reply #505 on: August 31, 2010, 06:29:57 AM »
So that's it, then, is it? You want me to get rid of the faux Lunarian as well?
 
No need for that, really. Note how quiet she was recently? That's because she hasn't been here, because I shipped her off to Eientei. I think Eirin will be very 'pleased' to hear a Terranian has been using her ancestral home as moral justification for beating people up.
 
Why did I send her off pre-emptively? Because I knew she was the last dirty slut follower, of course.
 
Sailor Moon, Scum German Suplex, was lynched by majority!
 
What? Of course I knew it was her. I knew who they all were, the whole time. I know these things. I'm a goddess. Kanako thinks she can fool me, but I can smell her coming a mile away. So why did I do all this? For shits and giggles, really.
 
But I expect you all want to see a winner anyway, right? That would be pretty mean of me to promise a winnable game and then not deliver on who the actual winner is. The victor deserves their rightful place in the limelight, after all.
 
Yes, that's right. The victor. Because only one person really won this game.
 
Razeluxe Meitzen, Town Wonder Twin, has lost on parity!
 
And that would be me.
 
Shannon, Third Party Moriyavatar, has won the game!
Suwako Moriya, Mod Awesome Goddess, has won via proxy!
Cirno Train, Mod Stupid Ice Fairy, was eaten by a giant toad for being a slouch!
Carthrat, Town Lurker Hitler, beat his head on the nearest wall until his brain oozed out!
 
Game over! Town lose! Scum lose! I win!
The only thing this dimension does well is show its ass. We might as well applaud it! - Albert Burneko

Well, this game happened.

Pesco

  • Trickster Rabbit Tewi
  • *
  • Make a yukkuri and take it easy with me
Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Day 6 - FINAL DAY
« Reply #506 on: August 31, 2010, 06:31:24 AM »

Carthrat, Town Lurker Hitler, beat his head on the nearest wall until his brain oozed out!
 

:V

Cirno

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  • I'm the strongest!
Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!
« Reply #507 on: August 31, 2010, 06:35:32 AM »
Ah, you folk finally came through with some nice entertainment for me in the end. Mostly at the expense of Razeluxe Meitzen. Oh but what a delicious expense it was!

And it turns out that getting eaten by that giant toad was just the thing I needed to get that freaking train off my back. It's hard to help out with these sorts of games when you have to deal with impossible tests, your own video game, and commuter trains at the same time, you know?

Suwako Moriya

  • Hey you with the pretty face
  • *
  • Welcome to the human race!
Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!
« Reply #508 on: August 31, 2010, 06:36:25 AM »
It should be noted that role and player reveals will come after I've woken up (and they'll come with some extra surprises!). I really should have gone to bed about an hour ago, but with the game ending I don't mind it so much.

EDIT: I will pre-emptively say, however, that Razeluxe was far and away the biggest victim this game, with his role constantly kicking him in the teeth and then being thrown into a 3-way he couldn't win. My sympathies for having to deal with all that.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2010, 06:38:06 AM by Suwako Moriya »
The only thing this dimension does well is show its ass. We might as well applaud it! - Albert Burneko

Well, this game happened.

Cirno

  • *
  • I'm the strongest!
Re: Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!
« Reply #509 on: August 31, 2010, 06:42:04 AM »
Quote from: Shkannon
A) Nobody is going to turbolynch anyone at the start of freaking LYLO unless they are: A) Scum or B) Want to lose the game.

Oh, if only that was the case. But recent history here reveals a third reason: sheer stupidity. Also known as: MotK town.