Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!

[Ouja]

Also, I apologise for being so damn wordy. I try to be succinct but I post stream-of-consciousness and boy do I have a lot of streams there.

[Suwako Moriya]

Vote Chart

Evangeline A.K. McDowell (3): Silver Medal, Sailor Moon, Stuff Man, Saki Marimi
Shannon (1): Sunny Milk
Stuff Man (1): Saki Marimi, Evangeline A.K. McDowell
Stone Mason (0): Evangeline A.K. McDowell
John McClane (3): Saki Marimi, Razeluxe Meitzen, Stone Mason, Saki Marimi

No vote placed: Shannon, John McClane

With 8 players alive, 5 votes will lynch, Evangeline A.K. McDowell and John McClane are both at L-2. There are about 5 1/2 hours left in Day 4.

Shannon has been prodded for inactivity.

[Decade]

Ugh. Was planning to post earlier. Combination of writing a paper draft + just general distractibility today for some reason meant that didn't happen. Getting caught up now.

[Ryuki]

Also, I apologise for being so damn wordy. I try to be succinct but I post stream-of-consciousness and boy do I have a lot of streams there.

It's wordy, but informative and not rambling so I think you're alright.

The sentiment here, that one of Shoe and Gamzee was scum, is weird. Because a D1 case seldom ends as Scum VS Town train, it's a bit weird to call Scum on one of the two in the D1 train. Much less certainly. I'd be more wont to say "You seemed scummy, but Gamzee didn't", rather than boldly claim I suspected one of the two being scum. "Pretty sure", huh?

I think that quip might be a result of some hindsight bias creeping in. "Y'see, one of the two of them was scum! I was pretty sure of that being the case before!" when really it was that they were the scummiest. That and well.. I haven't been playing very long, tbh, so that probably has something to do with overestimating the likelihood of a scum vs town train D1.

In spite of what bad stuff I can find on her, and my reluctance to rhyme her sudden suspicion of StuffMan who she knew to be who he is since D2 as not-paranoia, I'm... pretty much willing to think that for now, Evangeline errs on the wrong side of paranoia.

I'm.. kinda having a hard time parsing what you just said here. Can you rephrase it?

[Ouja]

For the last point:

It's easy to think, "This person is scum" and then look back at everything they say and present it as evidence. It's the Texas Shooter fallacy where you use a conclusion and then make arguments to support it, rather than make arguments to reach a conclusion.

It means that I think you're too inclined to think, "He's scum!" and then let that direct your thought process and abandon the positive tells. It's a scummy thing, for sure, but I'm not getting too many bad feelings that push you ahead of McClane.


Also, forgot to mention this, but if you really are not a regular player: never give up. Never surrender and permit yourself to be lynched. Town has a responsibility to fight 'till the bitter end.

[Ryuki]

And wow, end of day is creeping up sooner than I expected. Better do this now.

##Unvote
##Vote: John McClane

Because I can get behind Saki's case on McClane. Also, Not Me Instead of Me. Still sorta reluctant to leave open the possibility of giving Stuffman the opportunity to hammer considering his uncertain alignment, but not much time left in the day.

For the last point:

It's easy to think, "This person is scum" and then look back at everything they say and present it as evidence. It's the Texas Shooter fallacy where you use a conclusion and then make arguments to support it, rather than make arguments to reach a conclusion.

It means that I think you're too inclined to think, "He's scum!" and then let that direct your thought process and abandon the positive tells. It's a scummy thing, for sure, but I'm not getting too many bad feelings that push you ahead of McClane.


Also, forgot to mention this, but if you really are not a regular player: never give up. Never surrender and permit yourself to be lynched. Town has a responsibility to fight 'till the bitter end.

I'll keep those points in mind for the future, thanks.

I think I was definitely guilty of Texas Sharpshooter for D1, but D2 less so. As I see it, for each other person you have two possible conclusions of 'Town' or 'Not Town', and based on the evidence you swing one way or another. For Shoe, I started off leaning scum, and focused too much on confirming the scum verdict as opposed to finding the most likely conclusion. Steven on the other hand, I weighed the information on both sides before my verdict , and nothing came out to sway me after. You can't give the benefit of the doubt to everyone after all, and you have to act on the biggest doubts.

And as for the last point, I've still been fighting here, haven't I? :toot: Even though my scumhunting needs work, ehehe.

[Suwako Moriya]

Vote Chart

Evangeline A.K. McDowell (3): Silver Medal, Sailor Moon, Stuff Man, Saki Marimi
Shannon (1): Sunny Milk
Stuff Man (0): Saki Marimi, Evangeline A.K. McDowell
Stone Mason (0): Evangeline A.K. McDowell
John McClane (4): Saki Marimi, Razeluxe Meitzen, Stone Mason, Saki Marimi, Evangeline A.K. McDowell

No vote placed: Shannon, John McClane

With 8 players alive, 5 votes will lynch. There are about 4 hours left in Day 4.

John McClane is at L-1!

[Ouja]

Right, day's going to a close, and we need a lynch. I don't believe in No Lynch. Can I convince/interest Sailor Moon or StuffMan to show up and vote McClane?

[W]

Saki are you fine with letting me hammer?

[Ouja]

##UNVOTE

You'd be offended if I said "no"? There's too little to convince me you're town. You're compliant, but that could be a guise. Your D1 is excusable because I'd be suspicious if someone tried to claim to be me, but your further input is very little and lacking. Sorry, there's just not enough there to validate giving someone an extra vote, no matter how sporting they are.

Would you vote McClane regardless? Can you get behind our case?

[Ouja]

EBWOP: Yeah, I sort of forgot you got a powerup on hammer.

[W]

He's not my top choice, but we need the lynch.

##Vote John

[Ouja]

Thanks for being understanding.

##VOTE: McClane

Just in case I bite it today:

I strongly urge town to lurk less and punish lurkers. The more talk, the more information there is. Information serves town. There's too few posts. Reading ME in isolation is a chore, reading some others is a breeze. The more is said the better - it gives people things to work with. LAL is a measure to fall back on, it shouldn't be a default.

[Suwako Moriya]

Stop talking, the day is over!

[Suwako Moriya]

Wow, you want me to string up THIS guy? Uh...give me a moment. Mr. McClane, Sir, can I talk to you in private?

...

...

...

...Okay, I'm back. Boy howdy, was that fine gentleman loaded to the teeth. Nothing indicative of Kanako, though. Praise be for that, I wouldn't want to meet him in a dark alley.

Anyway, he said he was okay with leaving, so there's that. Mentioned something about needing to "give her a call, because she's never going to believe this", whatever that means. Oh, and he did tell me to call you all "groobers". Or something.

John McClane, Town Sansei, was lynched by majority!

Night 4 has begun. Send your stuff in.

Final Day 4 Vote Chart

Evangeline A.K. McDowell (2): Silver Medal, Sailor Moon, Stuff Man, Saki Marimi
Shannon (1): Sunny Milk
Stuff Man (0): Saki Marimi, Evangeline A.K. McDowell
Stone Mason (0): Evangeline A.K. McDowell
John McClane (5): Saki Marimi, Razeluxe Meitzen, Stone Mason, Saki Marimi, Evangeline A.K. McDowell, Stuff Man, Saki Marimi

No vote placed: Shannon, John McClane

[Suwako Moriya]

Oh dear, it seems our own little Eden of the East has had another woman ejected, presumably back to her own. Funny, I thought Gensokyo would be the only such place.

I gotta admit, I'm starting to sweat a little bit. You guys are taking longer than I would have hoped. Don't cost me my good name, please!

Saki Marimi, Town Universal Backup, was killed overnight!

Day 5 has begun. Today is Potential LYLO. It is not a guaranteed LYLO, but there is enough of a threat that LYLO rules will be put into effect.

Sailor Moon (1): Silver Medal
Shannon (1): Seth MacFarlane

With 7 votes in play, it takes 4 votes to lynch. There is no time limit. However, I will impose one if you take too long. Happy hunting!

[Ryuki]

Thread title still says Night 4 btw. Anyway..

Shannon/Kanon: I'd like to know what happened between this post and this post. Specifically, what happened between those two posts to turn Sailor Moon from someone you were wary about to "likely to be town"? I realize that i'm talking to two heads of a hydra here, but still.

Also, what's the deal with the anon vote that's been on Shkannon the past two days, and on Saki D3? Can someone explain?

Here's to hoping we get a little bit more posting activity with the weekend coming around.

[Skull]

I guess I'll be taking most of the blame for yesterday's lynch, as I was a major component in turning the trains around. The other member behind the drive is no longer with us. I'll be taking a fresh look at everyone, voting records, relations between other players, the works.

On a personal note, I'll be attending a wedding on Saturday, so I'll be gone for a bit. Feel free to ask me anything in the meantime, I'll answer when I get back.

[Punch Hopper]

##Vote: Stuff Man
##Unvote

[Ryuki]

Whoa whoa, who dragged the cat back in?

So, addressing the other people that aren't Shkannon..

@Stone Mason: Echoing Saki here, but please post more. It's hard to formulate a good opinion on you when you've posted no more than three times a single game day. That said, I want a better explanation than what you gave here as to why you gave me a pass but not McClane. My 'track record for being pro-scum' is about as perfect as his is, yet you saw fit to shift gears all of a sudden with me at L-1. Especially weird to me, since you've stated before back in D2 that " a flip of Evangeline would give more relationship correlation information than Sandor. Going for unlikely lynch today." So what's the relationship correlation information to be gleaned here? (Heck, for the rest of flips while we're here, since you haven't really made any relationship correlation analysis since you made that statement.

@Stuffman: I'd like to see your thoughts on everyone, not just myself. Aside from jabbing at me and popping in near the end of the day, you haven't really weighed in on anyone else since D2.  Especially like to know your thoughts about Shannon, since it seems like your opinion of her dried up between D2 and D3.

...and what's the deal with you jumping on people's cases for not voting fast enough here, when you hadn't even voted yourself? >_>

@Sailor Moon: Same goes for you. You haven't really weighed in your thoughts on anyone aside from me or Shannon these past two days either, sides a blurb about Mason. Your apathy bothers me. That and you start the bandwagon on me here, yet you didn't say a word about anyone else.

@Raxeluxe:

Raxeluxe, i'm guessing has some sort of role restriction where he has to speak in a lot of bolds? I was so close to saying something about excessive bolding before I realize that might have been the case. Is the bolding just random or is there a pattern based on the content of the bolded/unbolded stuff? Makes me wonder.

I may not have the best track record, but at least I post. :matsuri:

[W]

I hadn't posted yet that day while some people already did. Why did any of you who did post feel the need to not vote?

Stone Mason's targets have been pretty consistent but it's not a clear read. There's only 1 post on day 3 and it was a prod. You say you would vote Sandor at the end of the day if nothing comes from him. He didn't post and you didn't show up, to either post or hammer. I know I haven't paid much attention to the game but Stone Mason has done far less. There's no time limit now, so I'd expect to see something no later than Sunday morning on my side of the world.

ShKannon's activity on Day 3 was good enough that I took my interest elsewhere. But now I'm not liking the pass that he gives Razeluxe. The softclaim here needs to be resolved. It's pseudo-LyLo so spill it.

Razeluxe is looking pretty bad as my pick for scum after an iso read. He never seems to pressure Stone Mason enough despite how many mentions of him being terrible. This post IIoA, anyone else think so? In summation, Razeluxe is pretty much active lurking. I don't think I've seen him lead the charge on any of the cases the entire game.

##Vote Razeluxe

Sailor Moon doesn't strike me as scum because of consistent content for most of the game and getting onto Sandor so early would be quite a hard bus. Hasn't mentioned me all game, but I think she knew who I was from very early on and gave me a meta pass.

[Suwako Moriya]

Vote Chart

Sailor Moon (1): Silver Medal
Shannon (1): Seth MacFarlane
Stuff Man (0): Shoe
Razeluxe Meitzen (1): Stuff Man

With 7 votes in play, it takes 4 votes to lynch. There is no time limit.

[Ryuki]

Sailor Moon doesn't strike me as scum because of consistent content for most of the game and getting onto Sandor so early would be quite a hard bus.

Not to mention she was second on the Gamzee bandwagon and didn't budge, plus expressing interest in pursuing Sandor if Gamzee didn't work out. I'm leaning town on her, but I'd still like an answer to my questions.

[Kiva-la]

Now that I've had time for my head to clear, I was going to come in here and vote/unvote Stone Mason (Because it's potential LyLo, which means votes can't be placed willy-nilly) for reasons that have already been stated, without them being cleared up yet. However, reading that last post of yours, Stuffman, I think the cat's on the right track here. I mean, first off, I lead the charge yesterday. If you'd kindly take a look at the vote count, I'm the first solid vote on McClane. (And I hold that he seemed scummy) I presented my case, multiple times throughout the game, and voted him. Other people agreed. If that isn't leading the charge, I don't know what is. Another, less prominent example is the Steven Stone case, in which I presented a significant amount of the case. Should be in one of my posts you linked to, in fact. Next comes the part where you freely vote me, despite showing perfect understanding of the situation we're in. Votes are extremely dangerous, even for Town, at this point in the game.  Also, you role fish from ShKanon openly. And I call this role fishing because you don't ask for other people's, you just demand that s/he declare their role. Oh yeah, and as for the stuff about me calling out Stone Mason but never applying too much pressure? You can only apply pressure to one person at a time via voting (except in LyLo, wherein it should be through potential voting), and if you'd look at all those posts you linked to, you'd notice that I always had a better case. Now, originally, I was going to give you a pass on all that, thinking it was just you making some mistakes. But then I did my research, and thought about it, and realized that no, you are not simply making mistakes or seeing red, you are actively being scummy. I'd almost think you were third-party from the way you seem to be so open and flippant about everything, but no. I am pretty well convinced you're scum, but I will give you a chance to explain yourself, because that's the fair thing to do. Also because we can't afford to be wrong at this point in time.

@Evangeline: I mentioned the bolding in the first post I started doing it, actually. It's a way for me to do a tl;dr while still leaving all the other stuff there to support where I came from. I'll admit I've gotten a bit lazy about it lately, though.

Ninja'd by Stuffman quote from Evangeline. Not much to say on the matter.

[W]

You still aren't leading because you HAVE NEVER BEEN THE FIRST VOTE on any of the wagons the entire game.

Vote me if you're so sure of me being scum. The fact that you don't is because you can't back it.

[Ryuki]

You still aren't leading because you HAVE NEVER BEEN THE FIRST VOTE on any of the wagons the entire game.

Does this not count because Saki Vote/Unvoted?

Vote me if you're so sure of me being scum. The fact that you don't is because you can't back it.

Why are you trying to rush voting when we're in potential LyLo, anyway? >_>


@Razeluxe: Can you elaborate on the "then I did my research"? What specifically brought you to this realization? Also, " I was going to come in here and vote/unvote Stone Mason ", for what reasons? I'd rather you state it in your own words why you think he's scum than just say 'for reasons that have already been stated'.

[DiEnd]

god dammit I lost my post akldfdajk;lda

@Evangeline:I'm guilty of laziness, yeah. Maybe someone like me shouldn't be doing big rereads on single targets instead of lighter ones on everyone, since I'm not likely to get around to half the people that way :derp:

I'm still fine with myself for voting you yesterday though, as even if maybe I would have found someone else scummier, I still thought you quite deserving enough for a vote. I can't do something like that today, though; it's potential LyLo. I need to look at everyone and decide who I really think is the worst.

Also, does this mean there's two scum but a bomb they could derp into or something? Doctor who just can't seem to target the right people so far? Eh, I won't even bother setup speculating, there's too many weird things that could possibly be going on.

So Shoe's role has her come back as a Chicago Voter for LyLo? That's interesting. Also explains the "Seven votes in play" that I was wondering about in Suwako's post.

Okay, thoughts on people, without having done any big rereads yet.

Stone Mason needs to friggin contribute more. That's all I have to say on him without a reread.

Shkannon... my opinion is same as yesterday. She is not my preferred lynch, but I wouldn't mind one on her; oh scratch that, this is potential LyLo, I don't want to gamble with lynching her unless I decide she looks worse since I reread her on D4.

Raz isn't throwing any alarms for me yet, I don't find him terribly bad like Stuffman does. When I reread I think I'll really be looking for any associations with our confirmed scums, since he has been pretty lurky, so.

Stuffman...

Hasn't mentioned me all game, but I think she knew who I was from very early on and gave me a meta pass.

"That is not how first-post mindhax works and you are not Pesco" :V

I don't know how the hell to read someone like you. But I'll sure as hell try. My gut says I won't be surprised if I find you to be pretty bad, but that's just gut right now, so don't worry about it yet unless I still feel that way AFTER a reread.

Evangeline. Oh Evangeline, Evangeline... I'm not entirely sure where I sit on you now. You sure contributed a fuckton on D4. I need to comprehensively reread that fuckton and look for any kind of possible scummy intent. Still leaning towards you being scum either way, I suppose it depends on whether I find Stuffman (Or anyone else, for the that matter) to be worse or not.

[Ryuki]

Also, does this mean there's two scum but a bomb they could derp into or something? Doctor who just can't seem to target the right people so far? Eh, I won't even bother setup speculating, there's too many weird things that could possibly be going on.

So Shoe's role has her come back as a Chicago Voter for LyLo? That's interesting. Also explains the "Seven votes in play" that I was wondering about in Suwako's post.

Chicago Voter = Someone that can vote but can't say anything, or what? I had figured the 'Seven votes in play' had something to do with that anonvote and Silver Medal, but this makes more sense.

[W]

Does this not count because Saki Vote/Unvoted?

Why are you trying to rush voting when we're in potential LyLo, anyway? >_>

Yeah it doesn't count because on the vote chart Razeluxe is never the first name. Today he's the first one to want to lynch me so why shouldn't he vote me? He's pushing that I am so definitely scum, there should be nothing wrong with committing the vote when he believes it so strongly.

I think he's scum and scum can't afford to let themselves get tied up in early votes. The other part is that I think his role may have something against him being the first vote. It was just speculation but let's test it anyway. There's no time limit today so hold off voting me until he's placed the vote on me.

[Ryuki]

It was just speculation but let's test it anyway. There's no time limit today so hold off voting me until he's placed the vote on me.

That won't even work as a test though, since you already had a vote on you from Shoe. :/