Moriya Shrine Revolution Mafia - Game Over!

[DiEnd]

For example, how much I feel about Mason fluctuates greatly because of his bad early play combined with being D1 swing vote towards scum.

I forgot to elaborate more on this. It fluctuates for those reasons according to how my mood currently makes me interpret chances of him being scum despite that swing vote. Sometimes I'm going "Why am I even bothering to chase him now, he's the friggin swing vote towards scum lynch!" and sometimes I'm like "Dude, he looks so bad other then that, totally should keep chasing". The main reason my vote wasn't flipping everywhere was because I knew I'd likely fluctuate back and because I didn't want to be all CHANGE VOTE EVERY TEN SECONDS YEEAAAHHHHH

[Ouja]

I don't feel like explaining myself right now. I want Sandor to have a chance at honesty. Until Shannon posts I feel comfortable focusing my efforts on Sandor right now. If he comes clean, I might just know what happened.

There's only one role I know of that targets multiple people. Work the math yourself. I've left enough hints in my posts today. Sorry for the secrecy, I'll try to make it worthwhile.

[Den-O]

I HIT SAKI AND SAILOR MOON LAST NIGHT!  I'm a compulsory bus driver.  Considered Saki and Sailor Moon both likely town, and decided that hitting two likely townies would minimize the odds of doing something harmful with my role.  I've got more to say about actual scumhunting today, but caught Saki's post just now and want to get this out.

[Ouja]

##UNVOTE
##VOTE: Sandor Clegane

Why are you lying?

[Den-O]

I'm not lying.  Are you going to cut the crap, or should I show up in 48 hours to post my last impressions before my flip?

[Ouja]

I don't think we need scum's last impressions. They're not going to be helpful much, will they be?

[Sasword]

@Sailor Moon:

Alright, that clarifies quite a number of things, thank you.  Though I don't think it's right to put the majority vote on Steven while not reading into Shannon closely, but I'll put that off into a later date.

---

Since Sandor and Saki both deny each other, details are very welcome, especially on how it relates to the Silver Medal.

[Suwako Moriya]

Vote Chart

Miyako Miyamura (1): Silver Medal
Saki Marimi (1): Shigeru Miyamoto
Shannon (2): Saki Marimi, Razeluxe Meitzen, Miyako Miyamura
Evangeline A.K. McDowell (1): Stuff Man
Sandor Clgane (2): Saki Marimi, Stephon Marbury

No vote cast: Sandor Clegane, Evangeline A.K. McDowell, Stone Mason, Sailor Moon, Shannon, John McClane

10 players alive means 6 votes will lynch. You have about 47.5 hours remaining.

[Ouja]

Details? The details are that I know Sandor Clegane's role - to wit, observe the next vote count. He will have a modvote on him. His role allows him, and the wording specifically said may, switch two targets of his liking, or redirect one target's powers to another target for the night.

I have no wit of who his targets were. It was a bluff. You'll see my first post corroborates what I knew of Sandor's job if you link the first letters of each sentence together, right before I vote Shannon. Don't bother looking further back, it won't help you.

Regardless. The results of my night action were clear and detailed, and mentioned nothing of compulsion. I was unsure if, in role madness, bus drivers are never town roles, but I felt it was a terrible role for town and it was too curious how he never used the PUBLIC PART of his role, which is to speak at night.

Observe each of his posts. He must write in ALL CAPS ENDING WITH AN EXCLAMATION MARK! to avoid getting a mod vote. He must do this once per post. He failed to do so twice; just now, and the day before. That's why he got a rando-vote.

I was using the ALL CAPS ENDING WITH EXCLAMATION MARK! lines just to mock him a little and see if he'd understand.


My theory? He redirected the Medal back into your face. But if that is untrue, and he truly targeted Sailor Moon and I, well then. Well then. I've no idea what that means. But I do know lying about his role makes him scum, as he has no compulsion to act, and swapping targets is inherently anti-town to begin with!



I feel confident getting that out here, because my ability is limited.

[DiEnd]

Saki's case is... well, I'd say Sandor is p.much confirmed scum now. And I suppose if he flips town then Saki would be p.much confirmed scum for making up a load of lies, so either way it works.

##Vote:Sandor

I'll still get around to rereads, but due to :effort: and it no longer being imminently important I'll probably hold off till tomorrow when I've had sleep.

[Ouja]

I was level and hesitant at first, prying into the Silver Medal because when Miyako mentioned it, I only had a suspicion. I said to myself, "Why, if he can talk at night, does he not exercise that right?" and then I thought, "But then, bussing people is never helpful to town... I'll take a chance".

It was my top priority from the start to find out Clegane's night actions, hence the bluff. I'd no idea he'd actually spill his role and all, but it was a chance I was willing to take. I'm glad you made me subtly hint at the role he had, because had you not he might never have felt compelled to fakeclaim. (pun intended)

I apologise for pretty much nulling most scumhunting like this. I'd rather the day drew out a little, but as I evidenced I grew rather impatient at the slow activity. I didn't want to risk Sandor being "away" conveniently near the end of the lynch trains, and failing to get people to follow me at my call.

Sandor has plenty of damning evidence against him. This is simply the last screw to bolt that coffin shut for me, and I hope it is for you too.

There's no reason for town to lie about their role.

[Ouja]

By the way, I don't want to see Sandor Clegane lynched before everyone's had a chance to speak up about their suspicions for remaining scum, etcetera. Lunging headlong into the lynch never seems quite exciting to me when there's still information to be gleaned, and in this case, there's valuable things to be learned of people's research into Clegane's interactions, possible scum we can tie to him etcetera.

I'll be doing the same, checking cautiously for targets.

[Den-O]

Well, damn.  All Saki's info is valid, but I was sent a PM after night 0 saying that I had been hit with an ability that made my ability compulsory for the rest of the game.  Was holding that back along with the other role info since I didn't want to give any more information than necessary before LyLo.  Didn't even consider that Saki might be a rolecop instead of a tracker.

Anyway, realize that I'm basically guaranteed for lynch now.  Wouldn't put it past scum to have engineered this as some sort of entrapment scheme from the start, but that's probably stretching, and in any case it's not going to fly before my flip.  Not really anything more to say.

[Ouja]

I doubt there's a role that'd make night actions compulsory, because most benefit town. And I doubly so doubt that they would hit precisely a target that has a role that does not benefit town on precisely night 0. Nonetheless.

If you're convinced you're town, and I've set you on the road to oblivion (and myself along with it, if so), then surely you don't mind spilling your Night 0 and Night 1 actions, as well the reason you chose never to speak up at night to make up for your terse participation in the day?

[DiEnd]

:words words words:

I'm sorry, but I've been waiting to do this since I signed up and I couldn't resist

[Sasword]

Sandor, who did you target on N1?  I'm not sure if his ability, by the wording, can be used to reflect abilities back to the people who initiated them (is it possible for mod confirmation?), but I'm still not very certain about all of this, because technically, the Silver Medal is an object, not a role power.

[Skull]

Shawn Michaels, The Heart Break Kid.

Willing to listen to that Clengane fellow's words. The more he talks the more information we can pump him for.
He'll get the good ol' Mason's vote at the end of the day, barring some ground breaking epiphany.

Now then, little school girl, how about we sit down and enjoy some corvid? What is your reaction to Steve's flip of town, when you made such a string of hypotheticals?

##Vote: Evangeline

[Halloween Alice]

I'm not entirely sure what to think of your reveal, Saki.

I'll grant that it's somewhat questionable, but it's also not the slam dunk that you think it is.  Reread the rules, specifically rule 1.  This is bastard moderation.  We have no idea how many roles are actually helpful to the side they were given to, or are useful if they are used as soon as they can be used, and it's entirely possible that whoever has that must use your power power is themselves forced to use it.

Saki, while I'm at it, what guarantee do we have that what you're told about your target is what your target is told about themselves?  Seems like the kind of trick a bastard mod would like to pull.  Having a power that would reveal hidden details of a power, and then watching folks distract themselves over false tells caused by the original target not knowing what his power really was, as well as possibly killing off a useful investigative role in the process.

[Sasword]

Personally, I think McClaine may be right.  Since this is a bastard mod game, the SIlver Medal thing may not have been caused by Sandor after all.  Compulsory bus drivers aren't inconceivable in this setup; and neither are Silver Medals that do not do as the mod says it does (for example).  Given the huge number of possibilities, I am more than willing to give the roleguessing a pass until later and judge Sandor by traditional methods, since I'm wary of how these sort of things tend to grind gameplay to a halt and allow scum to seat back and relax without much danger.  I know MoTK has been sniped in the back by these sort of things before, but judging by the circumstances (madness), I think we should not confine ourselves to Sandor today.  I can also understand how hiding the role may be beneficial to town (e.g having the chance to swtich out scum), though it is definitely beneficial to scum as well.

Of course, it would help very much for Sandor and Saki to tell us what they did with their roles on N0 and N1. 

[Suwako Moriya]

Vote Chart

Miyako Miyamura (1): Silver Medal
Saki Marimi (1): Shigeru Miyamoto
Shannon (2): Saki Marimi, Razeluxe Meitzen, Miyako Miyamura
Evangeline A.K. McDowell (2): Stuff Man, Stone Mason
Sandor Clgane (3): Saki Marimi, Stephon Marbury, Sailor Moon

No vote cast: Sandor Clegane, Evangeline A.K. McDowell, Shannon, John McClane

10 players alive means 6 votes will lynch. You have about 35.5 hours remaining.

Shannon has been prodded for inactivity.

[Ouja]

Eh, I don't think mentioning the entire scope of my role is useful at this venture. I don't want to fullclaim unless necessary. I wouldn't have partial-claimed if I didn't feel it necessary either, and I feel that a busdriver scum is harmful enough to town that we can't afford suffering them to live. It's not like it's ONLY the lying about the role right now and the far-fetched theory that someone can make roles compulsory and hit exactly the right person on Night 0.

And McClane, I... do not follow. I was told in excruciating detail precise mechanics of the role, and a negative condition put on him. He knew of this condition as he has abided by it all but twice this game, and I doubt he would not be informed of being able to talk at night or NOT use his role's powers.

Again, I iterate: there is unlikely to be a role that makes it COMPULSORY to act, because the nature of it makes it quite useless on all but a few town roles, such as vigilant and, indeed, a town busdriver. At worst, I can think of a demotivator of some sort, and that is easily solved:

Has anyone here experienced, at any night, a sudden handicap to their role or a negative adjustment to your role?

We already know just about everyone has a role. It's role madness after all, so it shouldn't be too rolefishery to add credence to Sandor's claim if you can.

If I'm scum taking a huge gambit to lynch a town Sandor here, it's in your best interest to act immediately and lend credence to his claim of being demotivated/compelled.  After all, for such a huge gambit there'd need to be a huge payoff, right?

If I'm town taking a chance by outing Sandor, and revealing part of my role (I can say I'm not a rolecop), then it's still in your best interest to lend credence to his claim as otherwise we could potentially lynch a Townie AND discredit someone with a powerrole that lets them at least see roles!

I don't believe such a person exists, or if they do, it must be a victim of scum. I just can't believe a townie is giving an inherently anti-town role, PLUS a night-talk role AND then a negative modifier; that's just shafting the player incredibly hard, and then also making only the busdrive part compulsory when hit by a negative ability?

That's really unbalanced and stretching it and if Sandor is genuinely town struck by the Evil Hand Of Mod, I would call this true and genuine shafting of players and it'd enter the territory of "Terrible Setup" to me. Redirecting town powers can lead to redirecting investigative roles. Redirecting investigative roles serves scum as town gets wrong information. The role serves no one but scum.

Sandor has been sparse and tight-lipped. Honestly, if he had such a debilitating role, I'd think he would've compensated for it. But he's done none of that. Do I need to dig up the case on him? Point out his Bandwagon Hop^TM on Day 1 with the "derp Shoe is so annoying he must be scum" reasoning?

It's obvious his claim is a ruse. A lie. He added the "compulsory" part because he knows the role is inherently anti-town, and I'd inquire as to WHY he would've used the role. He pre-empted it by making it "no reason, I am compulsory". He revealed it himself, he didn't know I hadn't actually tracked him and was just bluffing.

I'm convinced Sandor is scum. I will not settle for less than him, and put my foot down on that. I agree that information on others is important, but I don't feel any case but Sandor's is worth lynching today.

We CANNOT suffer a scum busdriver to live.

[Ryuki]

Now then, little school girl, how about we sit down and enjoy some corvid? What is your reaction to Steve's flip of town, when you made such a string of hypotheticals?

##Vote: Evangeline

School girl?! I'll make you eat your words, old fool.

My response was along the lines of "FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF-----" followed by a facepalm when I saw the flip. And i'll tell you the same thing I told Stuffman. The 'string of hypotheticals' was showing how Scum!Steven would have been perfectly viable, since so many people were ready to convince his various scumtells as noob nulltells.

Has anyone here experienced, at any night, a sudden handicap to their role or a negative adjustment to your role?

Yes, I can confirm Miyako's story about being blocked from affecting Shannon N2, as using my rolepower on Shannon N2 came back with the same flavor 'did not work' message from the mod.

And i'd like to know Sandor's justification for the people he targeted on N1 as well, before I make my vote.

[Ouja]

I actually meant a change to your ability, Evangeline. Something like,

"From now on, for the rest of the game, you can't target females!"

or

"You are no longer a Vigilante, you are COMPULSORY VIGILANT!"

Without specificying what exactly, of course. Simply an agreement that, yes, it seems there exists a role with the ability to power down/handicap/compel roles exists. This would corroborate Sandor's story and lend credence to his claim, for those who find themselves swayed by it.

I don't believe it's possible that he be conveniently hit with that on the very first Night. McClane may find it possible, but I think he errs too much on the side of paranoia instigation there.

I should not go around assuming my abilities be defunct or defective in some way, and Clegane already admitted that all I posted was accurate save for a detail of "compulsion". Not to mention, as I pointed out, he can redirect all of one person's actions to hit another person.

i.e. he could target me and fix my target to be Shannon, no matter what I do. Why did he risk swapping Sailor Moon and I? Wouldn't it have been infinitely convenient to redirect someone's powers to an intended target? If someone investigated Sailor Moon or me, their information would be inaccurate, but he would be unaware of whose information is inaccurate.

If he truly had Town's best interests at heart, he'd redirect a target's actions. No matter how you look at it, he's a considerate person by pre-empting the question, "Why did you bus drive at all?" with "It was compulsory". It indicates he knew the role was harmful to town, because normally when a tracker asks about your targets, you don't need to roleclaim COMPULSION at all.

Back to tangent. If he had Town interests at heart, he would re-direct a target's actions. First off, he knows WHO he's screwing with. Second off, if his target's redirection would result in the DEATH of the latter, he had reasonable grounds to suspect his target. He could investigate, in a way. With swapping two targets, he has no control over the number of people affected by this. For all we know everyone targeted me this night and all herpderpaloo'd on Sailor Moon by accident, or the reverse. This method gives him less control. I can't imagine someone who knows bus driving is risky business would opt for the route of lesser control.



My previous night actions, again, have no bearing on Sandor Clegane. I left no clues regarding my target as obvious as I did today, although I left a few subtle ones. Regardless, the ones who it might affect are not relevant players at this time, and the information may be useful at a later point.  That point is not now. Please do not pry me for more information unless you have good reason to believe it is vital to the here and now.

[Ryuki]

Ah, then no. No changes here.

I should not go around assuming my abilities be defunct or defective in some way, and Clegane already admitted that all I posted was accurate save for a detail of "compulsion". Not to mention, as I pointed out, he can redirect all of one person's actions to hit another person.

i.e. he could target me and fix my target to be Shannon, no matter what I do. Why did he risk swapping Sailor Moon and I? Wouldn't it have been infinitely convenient to redirect someone's powers to an intended target? If someone investigated Sailor Moon or me, their information would be inaccurate, but he would be unaware of whose information is inaccurate.

If he truly had Town's best interests at heart, he'd redirect a target's actions. No matter how you look at it, he's a considerate person by pre-empting the question, "Why did you bus drive at all?" with "It was compulsory". It indicates he knew the role was harmful to town, because normally when a tracker asks about your targets, you don't need to roleclaim COMPULSION at all.

Waitaminit.

The Bus Driver that you're describing and the bus driver i'm familiar with seem to be two different things. You're implying that his role selects two targets, and redirects their night actions to one another, right? But doesn't a normal bus driver swap two targets, so that night actions from anyone that are targeted at one are redirected to the other? 

I'll state again that I'd like to know of Sandor's N1 actions, and why.

[Ouja]

Sandor's bus driver has two powers:

1) Swap two targets. i.e., if Person A and Person B are swapped. Person C targets Person A, but the ability will hit Person B. The reverse is also true.

2) Redirect a target's powers. i.e. Person A is targeted to always hit Person B. Persona A submits a night action to hit Person C, but his ability will hit Person B regardless.

Only one of these methods allows you to actually control the power and you know who are affected. Yes, it does mean one person's powers are screwed with without a doubt; but with the first method, you don't know how many are screwed. It's denying yourself information, and it's making your actions chaotic.

[Ouja]

Did I also mention Sandor's busdriver can speak at night? Because I think it's important to realise he had every opportunity each night to correct his sparse and terse participations in the days, but he never did.

Especially if you consider today's

I've got more to say about actual scumhunting today, but caught Saki's post just now and want to get this out.

... he had every opportunity to release this information at night, same as with the first night when there was the Gamzee lynch and he had choice words to say about that. He's intentionally sitting in the background.

[Decade]

Shannon here.  I'm still completely dead.  My other head said he was going to post something last night, but he didn't, so have a placeholder from me.

First, re: the attacks on me.  I'm going to try to explain this again as clearly as possible:
-At the end of the day, regardless of what I did, either Gamezee or Shoe would be lynched.  That means, no matter where I put my vote, no matter how much I wanted someone else lynched, one of them would be lynched.
-In other words, leaving my vote on Sandor D1 would have been useless.
-So, I thought it would be better to vote for the train I preferred.  I thought Gamzee's wagon was less dumb than Shoe's so I voted for him.

It's not really any more complicated than that.  As for the other thing.....

Scum can self-preserve, and so can town

In other words, you're calling me scummy for something that is a complete null tell. :| 

Regarding the Silver Medal, I'm pretty sure that it wouldn't have been passed to me regardless of what Sandor did.  It wouldn't have been passed to me regardless of what anyone did really.

Regarding Saki vs. Sandor, I see no possible scenario where Saki does not know Sandor's role.  If she was just bluffing on more than knowing his targets I don't think he would have acted that way.  His reaction, the scummy nature of the role, and the fact that he's been extremely scummy since D1 makes me comfortable doing this.

##Vote Sandor Clegane (L-2)

I have a two quick questions for Saki though.  You only need to answer yes or no since I don't really know the details.  Did you target Sandor N1?  If no, is it possible for you to hit multiple targets on the same night (IE, could you get the info on Sandor and still target someone else)?

[Ouja]

It's... unknown to me why this information is useful. I'm a bit... well, you've surely seen my hesitation at willingness to share my role specifics. It's a bit of a weird role.

Is it important information to know?


I'll be gone in two hours or so, and will be until sunday afternoon. I'm not sure if I can make it back in before deadline, so any loose ties you want from me should be cleared up soon-ish.

[Decade]

Yes, because based on what I know this situation is weird.  I just need to know if you either targeted Sandor N1 and not N2, or if it was possible for you to get info on him and still target someone else at the same time.  Yes or no is fine.

I'd rather not elaborate any more than that, but if I have to I can.

[Ouja]

Then the answer is "No", on both accounts. I did not target Sandor prior to N2, and I did not target anyone besides Sandor on N2.