Author Topic: Labyrinth of Touhou 5F  (Read 213147 times)

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 5F
« Reply #930 on: September 10, 2010, 08:09:30 PM »
...wow, I'm stupid. Turned out I stopped just before I got to one, so it didn't show up on the map.

Found Suwako, needless to say.
All lies and all sin, all dreams and all majesty, Everything rots in this ruined hell

[The Perfect, Elegant Maid] [Pathos of the Hated People] [Music, Projects, and Art]

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 5F
« Reply #931 on: September 10, 2010, 08:55:48 PM »
...suddenly the english version doesn't work for me anymore.  Playing in Japanese works fine.

What the hell.

EDIT: Pretend this doesn't exist, I was being a dumbass and trying to use my v3.01 exe file in my 2.06 folder :derp:

Seriously though, I can't help but wonder why we can't duplicate or replace characters.  Replacing Mokou's files with Flandre's still gives me my level 19 Mokou with unchanged stat growths, levels, exp, etc. but flat-out removing her files results in the save being unplayable.

EDIT2: Oh man, I have no idea how I managed to do this when all I did was replace Mokou's files with Flan's, but

[attach=1]

Those stats don't look right to me. :derp:
« Last Edit: September 10, 2010, 09:12:44 PM by Esoterica »

Parallaxal

  • Moon Sign "Theft of Dreams"
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 5F
« Reply #932 on: September 11, 2010, 03:07:55 AM »
It looks like that NG+ glitch where most of the later characters are all given the same affinities and status resistances (Tenshi's, if I remember correctly). Do your other characters have altered affinities/resistances as well?

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 5F
« Reply #933 on: September 11, 2010, 03:29:19 AM »
It looks like that NG+ glitch where most of the later characters are all given the same affinities and status resistances (Tenshi's, if I remember correctly). Do your other characters have altered affinities/resistances as well?
Just Flan, because her file was the only one I messed with apparently (not sure how this didn't happen to Mokou instead).

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 5F
« Reply #934 on: September 11, 2010, 05:19:07 AM »
So I finally activated the last failsafe lock. Then I went to Gensokyo and saved. Then, when I went to meet Tenshi, I found out that I forgot to switch off the green doors.

Cue ragequit.

Anyway, would you guys suggest that I take on Tenshi before going after Sanae's Foe? I tried the latter, but got my ass swiftly handed to me in two turns.
All lies and all sin, all dreams and all majesty, Everything rots in this ruined hell

[The Perfect, Elegant Maid] [Pathos of the Hated People] [Music, Projects, and Art]

Parallaxal

  • Moon Sign "Theft of Dreams"
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 5F
« Reply #935 on: September 11, 2010, 05:33:41 AM »
So I finally activated the last failsafe lock. Then I went to Gensokyo and saved. Then, when I went to meet Tenshi, I found out that I forgot to switch off the green doors.

Cue ragequit.

Anyway, would you guys suggest that I take on Tenshi before going after Sanae's Foe? I tried the latter, but got my ass swiftly handed to me in two turns.

I always fight Sanae's Foe before Tenshi (actually, before exploring 10-12F). If you know his attack pattern and how to exploit it with proper strategy and gear, you can beat him at level 40-ish. Hope this helps.

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 5F
« Reply #936 on: September 11, 2010, 05:47:45 AM »
Like Para said, I personally went for Sanae's Foe immediately after recruiting Ran.  With the proper strategy it's a rather manageable fight.

Pesco

  • Trickster Rabbit Tewi
  • *
  • Make a yukkuri and take it easy with me
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 5F
« Reply #937 on: September 11, 2010, 06:09:16 AM »
Foes are pretty easy when you know the gimmick.

If you don't feel like doing the whole 10-12F walkabout, I posted the cheat addresses to manipulate the barriers some time back in this thread.

RegalStar

  • Envoy of Balance
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 5F
« Reply #938 on: September 11, 2010, 01:27:08 PM »
Flandre defeated. I got REALLY lucky that Iron Ring decided to land its PAR proc three times in a row near the end, and I managed to dismantle her with Eirin and Nitori before she even got a chance to use Laevatein at all  :V

EDIT (Some time later):

OK, so I challenged Yukari and took her down (Discarder made the fight sooooo easy), and I managed to bug out her forms by dealing enough damage for force her to use two Djinn Storms in a row, but despite keeping her 1st form sprite, she still used 3rd form specific spells after that (IN Quadratic Barrier, Objective Barrier, and then Hyperactive Flying Object). What's up with that? Also, does that still mean that I was screwed out of a chance to get the Gran Grimoire? (Not like I could've gotten it if I wasn't anyways, since I have crappy luck with those 25% drops, but I want to know for boss rush)
« Last Edit: September 11, 2010, 11:10:40 PM by RegalStar »

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 5F
« Reply #939 on: September 11, 2010, 11:56:21 PM »
So started playing this again today. Had taken a break for awhile (been playing the original Starcraft campaigns) because the grinding was boring me.  :V
Up to Reimu 343 now though, still not looking forward to more grinding. At least I should be strong enough to take on most of the Bloodstained Seals Ver.2 soon, after which I should be ready to grind on the "more interesting" 30F. Thank god for that  :D

Ghaleon

  • Long twintail-o-holic
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 5F
« Reply #940 on: September 12, 2010, 03:43:07 AM »
So started playing this again today. Had taken a break for awhile (been playing the original Starcraft campaigns) because the grinding was boring me.  :V
Up to Reimu 343 now though, still not looking forward to more grinding. At least I should be strong enough to take on most of the Bloodstained Seals Ver.2 soon, after which I should be ready to grind on the "more interesting" 30F. Thank god for that  :D

grinding for 30f is by far the least impressive portion of Labyrinth of touhou. Assuming you enjoyed the game otherwise (and you're clearly a mentally handicapped fool if you don't! (don't take that seriously)), I really suggest starting a NG+ and re-enjoying it using a mostly-different party again if you are having a hart time being motivated to start playing it again.

If you can't take on the seal-bosses v2 still...uhh. yeah you still got quite a ways for the 30f bosses unfortunately >=( It's pretty stupid how friggin' much of a grind you require for 30f. it's like what should be on 40f IF it existed.

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 5F
« Reply #941 on: September 12, 2010, 06:21:29 AM »
grinding for 30f is by far the least impressive portion of Labyrinth of touhou. Assuming you enjoyed the game otherwise (and you're clearly a mentally handicapped fool if you don't! (don't take that seriously)), I really suggest starting a NG+ and re-enjoying it using a mostly-different party again if you are having a hart time being motivated to start playing it again.

If you can't take on the seal-bosses v2 still...uhh. yeah you still got quite a ways for the 30f bosses unfortunately >=( It's pretty stupid how friggin' much of a grind you require for 30f. it's like what should be on 40f IF it existed.

Lol, I know what you mean there. I'll be there before long though, and it'll get at least a bit better for awhile on 30F. And yeah, they definitely overdid it on the final bosses of the Plus Disk. I did enjoy the main game and the Plus Disk quite a bit up until this point. I just figure I'll fit in some grinding here and there while I do other things, like watch Sunday Night Football for instance (quite an odd match-up there  :V).

Anyways, I will get there eventually. Because I will feel defeated by the game if I don't. And that, I cannot allow. Game must be defeated!

RegalStar

  • Envoy of Balance
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 5F
« Reply #942 on: September 12, 2010, 11:57:50 AM »
So, does anyone know about the oddity of Yukari's forms? To recap, I managed to deal enough damage to her after the first Djinn Storm that she Djinn Stormed again immediately, and then she never used Barrier Release to change form - however, she then started using 3rd form specific skills nevertheless. I thought that if you bug out her forms she'll be stuck in her first form, moves and all? Also, does that screw me out of a chance at getting the Gran Grimoire?

Axel Ryman

  • Fear me
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 5F
« Reply #943 on: September 12, 2010, 12:28:15 PM »
What version are you playing, and do you have spell animations on or off?

RegalStar

  • Envoy of Balance
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 5F
« Reply #944 on: September 12, 2010, 01:33:26 PM »
3.01, and I have animation on (I don't know hot to turn it off, and regardless I don't want to turn it off).

Parallaxal

  • Moon Sign "Theft of Dreams"
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 5F
« Reply #945 on: September 12, 2010, 03:44:12 PM »
The Ver.3 bosses will still drop their items even if you kill them before they change into their final form, so I'd assume you can still get the Gran Grimoire no matter which form you defeat her in.

Garlyle

  • I can't brain today
  • I have the dumb
    • Tormod Plays Games
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 5F
« Reply #946 on: September 12, 2010, 04:01:40 PM »
So, does anyone know about the oddity of Yukari's forms? To recap, I managed to deal enough damage to her after the first Djinn Storm that she Djinn Stormed again immediately, and then she never used Barrier Release to change form - however, she then started using 3rd form specific skills nevertheless. I thought that if you bug out her forms she'll be stuck in her first form, moves and all? Also, does that screw me out of a chance at getting the Gran Grimoire?
I've seen this before.  It's because of the logic behind her triggers.  If you kill her too fast (By having her Speed reduced and having fast SP recovering characters nuking her again), she will trigger Djinn Storm again.  However, as that overrides her attempt to use Barrier Release, it leaves her in 'phase 1' visually; and there's gotta be a check before the second barrier release.  However, the actual change of phase occurs during Djinn Storm.

Either way, it seems an effective way to defeat her to do this, as it means you don't have to worry about her defenses being significantly boosted

RegalStar

  • Envoy of Balance
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 5F
« Reply #947 on: September 12, 2010, 06:44:28 PM »
One of the thing I noticed is that forcing her to use both Djinn Storm in a row was NOT effective at stopping her from using phase 3 moves, because after the 2nd Djinn Storm she used IN Quadratic Border, Objective Border, and (after Reisen gets off a Discarder forcing her SPD to go in negative again) Hyperactive Flying Object in that sequence, and none of those moves are used in phase 1.

As long as it doesn't screw me a chance at getting that Gran Grimoire, though... I sure don't want that happen when I boss rush. Oh and a question about boss rush - does it reset to Ver2 automatically after I clear it once, or is there some way to leave it at Ver1? I have terrible luck with those 25% item drops this run and sure wouldn't mind extra chances at getting some of them...

Pesco

  • Trickster Rabbit Tewi
  • *
  • Make a yukkuri and take it easy with me
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 5F
« Reply #948 on: September 12, 2010, 07:46:29 PM »
There probably is a stage trigger to keep the boss rush at ver1, but because the drop you get from completing it is supposed to be a limited item, you're probably better off getting the drops you want from floor trash.

Parallaxal

  • Moon Sign "Theft of Dreams"
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 5F
« Reply #949 on: September 13, 2010, 01:07:48 AM »
I'm pretty sure you've only got 1 shot at the boss rush before it changes to Ver.2. Besides the Gran Grimoire, there aren't other good drops I can think of that are unique to the boss rush. And the Gran Grimoire itself gets outclassed pretty easily by trash mob drops in the Plus Disk (Anima Crystals and Dewprisms come to mind), so I wouldn't stress out over it. Most of your stuff will be overshadowed by Plus Disk gear anyway.

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 5F
« Reply #950 on: September 13, 2010, 06:48:29 AM »

Your total stat is equal to:
(Starting Stat) + (Stat Growth * Levels Gained * Level Multiplier) * (1 + Level Bonus + Skill Points + Equipment)

Level Bonus = 0.02 per bonus given
Skill Points = 0.03 per skill level

The Level Multiplier is a latent additional multiplier to your growth rate gained for each level that's separate from your level bonus, so characters with faster leveling rates will benefit more than slower leveling characters. Its existance is not well-documented aside from a single line mentioning it on the wiki, as far as I know, but it's quite easy to see if you test it out yourself, even if it can be difficult to measure. However, the thing that's really interesting about it is that its value is different depending on which stat you're looking at. It's also why the actual amount of a stat you gain per level up doesn't match the growth rates (for example, Reimu has a listed SP growth rate of 20, but it only really increases by 2-3 points per level if you have no level bonuses or skill points). If you level a character from 1 to a much higher value in one go, you'll notice that you gain more stats per level the higher you go, even without skill points or any other bonuses. That's the effect of the Level Multiplier.

I can't say I've measured it down exactly, but after running some tests with my higher level files, here are my estimates for the Level Multipliers for each stat:

HP: 1.20 + 0.03 per level
SP: 0.125 (this value never goes up regardless of level)
ATK: 1.10 + 0.02 per level
DEF: 1.10 + 0.02 per level
MAG: 1.10 + 0.02 per level
MND: 1.10 + 0.02 per level
SPD: 0.0225 + 0.000645 per level

It's close, but there's a discrepancy in how the base stat is handled, I think.  Using the above formula, assuming I put it into Excel correctly, I calculated out what ought to be Reimu's base level 380 stats (why 380? because this is what she hit with 200 million EXP).  The formula gave me values of 57264 HP, 1050 SP, 26361 ATK, 19769 DEF, 29654 MAG, 29653 MND, and 909 SPD.

I then launched TL (3.01) and proceeded to level Reimu on a new game to level 380, assigning no skill points or levelup bonuses.  Her stats actually came out at 57446 HP, 1050 SP, 26383 ATK, 19776 DEF, 29669 MAG, 29661 MND, and 915 SPD, for an error of 182 points in HP, 22 in ATK, 7 in DEF, 15 in MAG, 8 in MND and 6 in SPD.

Out of curiosity, I tried the same thing with Marisa (using the same level, though such a parallel wouldn't happen in normal gameplay, to try and pinpoint what was producing this discrepancy).  For Marisa, I got predicted stats of 42951 HP/1335 SP/9887 ATK/16475 DEF/42833 MAG/39538 MND/1213 SPD versus actual stats of 43121/1335/9909/16482/42848/39545/1220, for an error of 170 points in HP, 22 in ATK, 7 in DEF, 15 in MAG, 7 in MND and 7 in SPD.  Curiously, in spite of the giant difference between Reimu and Marisa's ATK bases and growths, they ended up with exactly the same 22 point discrepancy in ATK. 

Finding this odd, I tried running the numbers with Remilia, again level 380.  For her, I got predicted stats of 90662/480/52705/32948/13181/29653/1314, and actual stats of 90870/480/51757/32955/13196/29661/1322, for an error of 208 points in HP, -948 in ATK, 7 in DEF, 15 in MAG, 8 in MND and 8 in SPD.  All almost the same errors... except for that *huge* ATK discrepancy.  Which I'm willing to bet is explained by the fact that Remilia's base ATK is abnormally low relative to her ATK growth.

So, that formula is failing to perform some modification on base stats over the course of adding additional levels which doesn't become remarkably apparent except in the one odd case where the growth rate and base stats don't sync (Remilia).  I'm no math expert and can't really claim to know what's missing, though...

Garlyle

  • I can't brain today
  • I have the dumb
    • Tormod Plays Games
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 5F
« Reply #951 on: September 13, 2010, 07:15:38 AM »
In all honesty, with the exception of Remilia's attack, that is an extremely miniscule difference - especially at level 380.  I wouldn't worry about it too much.

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 5F
« Reply #952 on: September 13, 2010, 07:34:57 AM »
Oh, definitely - it's close enough to have a good enough idea of where stats are going to fall long term.

Given the high numbers stats have at that level, those discrepancies are so small as to be virtually meaningless, yeah.

Ghaleon

  • Long twintail-o-holic
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 5F
« Reply #953 on: September 13, 2010, 02:46:25 PM »
Every attempt I made using that formula has been accurate to the number for me I'm pretty sure, I'll try again when I'm at my CPU.

Those deviations are fairly small though.

draganuv15

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 5F
« Reply #954 on: September 13, 2010, 04:17:20 PM »
i have a pretty odd question but is there any way to make 1-20th floor available by modifying your save files?

Pesco

  • Trickster Rabbit Tewi
  • *
  • Make a yukkuri and take it easy with me
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 5F
« Reply #955 on: September 13, 2010, 04:43:36 PM »
It's quite possible, but atm :effort: to find out how.

draganuv15

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 5F
« Reply #956 on: September 13, 2010, 06:33:27 PM »
It's quite possible, but atm :effort: to find out how.

ah ok  :D

Ghaleon

  • Long twintail-o-holic
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 5F
« Reply #957 on: September 13, 2010, 06:34:19 PM »
Oh, I see what's wrong with your stat math already. you're not using the right formula, the right one is the one I posted. It has no "starting value" as a thing in the formula, but is compensated instead by stuff like levelX5(statgrowth) + constant + etc.

Use that one.

Using "starting growth" as a stat isn't accurate because the starting value gets cheated of the 0.02% bonus gained per level..or something, I'm too lazy, but I'm sure it's something like that, just try it >=P.

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 5F
« Reply #958 on: September 14, 2010, 01:27:43 AM »
i have a pretty odd question but is there any way to make 1-20th floor available by modifying your save files?

Floor checkpoints are in stored E00.ngd. The file is actually filled with toggles for viewed cutscenes, and it looks like when you trip the cutscene for discovering/activating a checkpoint (0x000000D2 is 2F for example) it toggles another value (0x000000D3) for the Teleport Menu. I'd find out the other floors but it would mean a lot of trial and error... :effort:

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 5F
« Reply #959 on: September 14, 2010, 01:31:27 AM »
Floor checkpoints are in stored E00.ngd. The file is actually filled with toggles for viewed cutscenes, and it looks like when you trip the cutscene for discovering/activating a checkpoint (0x000000D2 is 2F for example) it toggles another value (0x000000D3) for the Teleport Menu. I'd find out the other floors but it would mean a lot of trial and error... :effort:
or you could take an E00.ngd from a completed save file