Labyrinth of Touhou 5F

[DDRMANIAC007]

How exactly do I get the NG+ save file to work with special disk 3.01? How do I start the NG+?

Edit: Working but why do most of the girls have enough EXP for level 40+?

[Pesco]

The save file needs fixing. I'm too busy at the moment to make a new one.

[Serela]

Almost everyone who doesn't have a high HP value gets hit by Rasetsu Fist because it ignores defense :/

Yeah, but Tenshi is for 1st slot tanking. Almost anyone else you'd put in the first two slots has the HP to survive this attack (From most enemies/bosses that use it, at least). Anything with Rasetsu Fist or some other def-ignoring attack renders Tenshi very unreliable as a tank.

[Esoterica]

I'm not sure what you people are doing with your Tenshis, my Tenshi (not sure what level, Reimu's at 103 or something) has about 6.5k HP.  She can take a Rasetsu Fist from 18F and survive, and not even need to worry about getting killed by a followup because everything else hits zeros.  All levelups go to DEF/MND, but for skillpoints I keep her HP in line with DEF and MND.

[BallerSupreme]

I'm always really unlucky with Rasetsu fist. It tends to hit my second slot character a lot more than my first whenever I run into a boss that uses it. Luckily they all have the hp to take it, but it still bothers me a lot.
Or when Kaguya in 4th slot gets sniped by a rasetsu fist in the first turn. Stuff like that makes me rage.

[Eilaris]

I found this problem was caused by overwriting the save_NaN folder in TL 3.01's saves folder with the save_NaN folder from TL 2.04.  When I did a fresh install of 3.01 and then copied in only save1/save2/save3, and then used the NG+ save file link from one of the earlier threads (I _think_ it was the third thread?), it worked perfectly - no messed up EXP or affinities.

[Barrakketh]

I found this problem was caused by overwriting the save_NaN folder in TL 3.01's saves folder with the save_NaN folder from TL 2.04.  When I did a fresh install of 3.01 and then copied in only save1/save2/save3, and then used the NG+ save file link from one of the earlier threads (I _think_ it was the third thread?), it worked perfectly - no messed up EXP or affinities.

I still haven't played Labyrinth since the Special Disc came out (it's been quite a while since I played...I still need to clear the floors/puzzle to fight Eintei), but when I was testing to see how the Rumia artwork I was working on looked in-game for her LFace image I noticed that my equipped items were screwed up and my stats were in the negative millions :V

I had backed up the standard save folder before copying older my old save, so I just restored it and copied save[1-3].  Everything worked peachy after that.

[FantomFang]

Well, I "had" two tanks. I dropped Tenshi because as much as I like her for her defenses, her slow speed combined with her weakness to attacks like Rasetsu Fist made her non-ideal.
My current line-up is as follows:

Spoiler:

Meiling, Ran, Reimu, Aya, Flandre, Marisa, Suwako, Youmu, Iku, Patchy, Sanae, Alice

Offtank has typically been Youmu/Ran now, but I'd like to start using 18F in that slot. So who do you figure I should bench? 18F will be Offtank+Buffer, using the offensive capabilities to clear trash.

Just quoting myself to re-ask the question: Who do you all think I should replace out of the above spoilered characters for 18F, considering I'm going to use 18F as an Off-Tank/Buffer alongside Meiling?

[Esoterica]

Just quoting myself to re-ask the question: Who do you all think I should replace out of the above spoilered characters for 18F, considering I'm going to use 18F as an Off-Tank/Buffer alongside Meiling?

It's a tough call on specifics, but generally speaking you could afford to part with any one of your nukers.  I'd just pick one you aren't terribly attached to.

[MysTeariousYukari]

Or when Kaguya in 4th slot gets sniped by a rasetsu fist in the first turn. Stuff like that makes me rage.

Or in my case, Patchy is 4th slot getting sniped by moves like Snipe, Slash Dive or Galaxy in a Pot. Those 3 moves are the cause for almost all of my Patchy deaths.

[FantomFang]

It's a tough call on specifics, but generally speaking you could afford to part with any one of your nukers.  I'd just pick one you aren't terribly attached to.

I'm thinking that I'll drop Marisa. I rarely use her for anything but her Master Spark anymore, and that's just not as nice now as some of the more consistent nuking the others do. Maybe I'll bring her back later though, when Patchy's usefulness starts dropping off PostGame, or so I am told.

EDIT: Hehe, no TP problems with 18F when you have a Destiny Stone waiting, along with switching out to put a Star of Elendil on, considering 18F gets something out of all of the stats, more or less.

[Ghaleon]

Or in my case, Patchy is 4th slot getting sniped by moves like Snipe, Slash Dive or Galaxy in a Pot. Those 3 moves are the cause for almost all of my Patchy deaths.

wtf? Galaxy in a pot is mystic damage that has craptacular mnd-piercing.. it's like a basic attack only gimped by being mys element and using mag/mnd instead of atk/def.

[Serela]

wtf? Galaxy in a pot is mystic damage that has craptacular mnd-piercing.. it's like a basic attack only gimped by being mys element and using mag/mnd instead of atk/def.

It hits DEF, and has a nice formula as far as non-major enemy attacks go.

[FantomFang]

Don't forget the very common Arrow Rain performed 2x in a row. Oh so frustrating when you don't happen to have speedster's out there.  :V

EDIT: Whew. 19F cleared. Now time for a Boss clearing marathon, although it shouldn't be very hard 
EDIT 2: Wow. Beat all of those bosses in record time. Pathetic HP's combined with knowledge of their weaknesses, nukers to exploit them, and 18F's buff meant they only got a half-dozen turns...if they were lucky 
EDIT 3: Wow Paralaxxal, your guys look like they're quite a bit tougher than my own right now. Did you take the pictures for your Let's Play after you finished exploring the floor, b/c your HP totals (and your Patchy, wow) seem to be quite a lot better than mine.

[Parallaxal]

EDIT 3: Wow Paralaxxal, your guys look like they're quite a bit tougher than my own right now. Did you take the pictures for your Let's Play after you finished exploring the floor, b/c your HP totals (and your Patchy, wow) seem to be quite a lot better than mine.

Yeah, I usually take the image pictures way after I make the videos. The ones you're thinking of were probably taken after I beat the final boss already. The ones for the plus disk were probably taken several dozen levels after the boss fights. Just ignore that, heh.

Grinding for the very last boss with Team Unappreciated right now. I've gotten more or less every piece of equipment I wanted for my team from the 30F mobs (well, could always use some more Awakened Exoskeletons, but I'm not counting on more of those dropping), so I'm heading back down to 27F grinding for the massive skill points from the Lilith. Currently @ Rumia level 554.

[Garlyle]

So, here's a question.

What do people think would be the worst 12-person team?

And no specifying useless builds either.  Assuming every character could be used to their full potential, what do you think would be the worst overall setup for a team in the game?

[Serela]

I could give you pure glassy cannons, or a team that simply horribly lacks in damage while not having the best stallers.

Pure glassy cannons would be much worse, and really stupid in play, while horrible damage team would be usable to some extent.

[The Greatest Dog]

There's only about 10 glass cannons, though.

Do Aya and Chen count?

No, wait, Aya needs repeated Iku buffs to deal nuke damage, though she can still take some hits.

[Serela]

Do Aya and Chen count?

Chen is glass and tinfoil, Aya is better but would still definitely fit into a glass team.

[The Greatest Dog]

Oh, derp, forgot about Marisa.

Without any buffs, though, the damage would be really low compared to having even two nukes with Iku and Keine and Ran laying on the buffs.

[Esoterica]

Marisa
Sakuya
Chen
Cirno
Rumia
Suwako
Flandre
Patchouli
Aya
Okuu
Yuka

Can't think of a 12th character without adding some synergy to this.  Eirin maybe, since Hourai Elixir won't contribute much with the low HP totals, but then you'd actually have a tank.

[The Greatest Dog]

Kaguya?

But Sakuya as a glass cannon? Yeahno.

Yuka can take hits. Rumia isn't really a cannon, either, though the formula for that attack is great.
Cirno? She's just for making foes take less actions.

Hmm. :V

[Esoterica]

Kaguya?

But Sakuya as a glass cannon? Yeahno.

Yuka can take hits. Rumia isn't really a cannon, either, though the formula for that attack is great.
Cirno? She's just for making foes take less actions.

Hmm. :V

I wasn't going for glass cannons necessarily, I just wanted to make a fragile team that lacked synergy.  Which is surprisingly hard to do.  The way I see it, glass cannons plus supporting characters that won't actually offer much in the way of help and deal pitiful damage is probably the way to go.  No defensive or offensive buffs or debuffs.  Speed is fine, considering Sakuya's damage is hardly noticeable against anything with DEF, and Cirno's flat-out restricted to debuffs due to even more pitiful damage.  Cirno is also extremely fragile; this team would probably be the one time her self-buff could be useful.

Kaguya I didn't want to include, because she has a buff that could heavily benefit the team by providing higher offensive and defensive stats, as well as letting...pretty much anyone take a second turn and offer some considerable damage.

[Ghaleon]

So, here's a question.

What do people think would be the worst 12-person team?

And no specifying useless builds either.  Assuming every character could be used to their full potential, what do you think would be the worst overall setup for a team in the game?

Quote from somewhere else on these boards:

Oh god don't let me take that long.

Don't you dare start a new game with "worst possible party" punk! I'm on to you! *Eiki lightning bolts you*

Marisa
Sakuya
Chen
Cirno
Rumia
Suwako
Flandre
Patchouli
Aya
Okuu
Yuka

I'm pretty sure it's easy to think of worse, but t hinking of worst is indeed hard. Personally I think Sakuya is too good at tanking physical, and Patchy is too good at tanking magic to include on that list. I think aya is also too good at everything to include. Her dps without buffs is really NOT as bad as everyone seems to think, and she can take a hit physically or magically...And her speed buff would probably benefit a team with a buncha scardy-cats who need to switch out before a nuke too much (you might think there's nobody else to switch with them, but if you build a character specific to tank a certain element using items/weird level up choices, I think it might be done).

also, I haven't looked at Mokou recently, but wasn't she surprisingly squishy too? I forget.

Anyway, I wont try to find the worst possible combination, but I'm pretty sure completing the game without cheating is pretty much impossible to do in 1 lifetime with this:

Marisa, Iku, Sanae,Ran,Reisen,Eirin,Mokou,Yuyuko,Renko,Maribel,Yuka,Reimu.

Obviously this isn't a party with just characters that I think are "bad".. Since there are some really excellent ones in there..BUT, I think it should be obvious why the team would suck hard >=P

[Esoterica]

also, I haven't looked at Mokou recently, but wasn't she surprisingly squishy too? I forget.

She's actually pretty durable.  I think her defenses are about the same as Alice's, but she has more HP.  I think.  I certainly haven't had problems putting her in the second slot with a MAG build though.

Anyway, I wont try to find the worst possible combination, but I'm pretty sure completing the game without cheating is pretty much impossible to do in 1 lifetime with this:

Marisa, Iku, Sanae,Ran,Reisen,Eirin,Mokou,Yuyuko,Renko,Maribel,Yuka,Reimu.

Obviously this isn't a party with just characters that I think are "bad".. Since there are some really excellent ones in there..BUT, I think it should be obvious why the team would suck hard >=P

...I'm really not seeing what's supposed to be bad about this team.  Maybe it's just because it's past 2 AM, but it seems like a team I'd willingly use.  You've got a solid first slot tank with Eirin, multiple characters that can take second slot easily (hell, pretty much everyone but Marisa), two healers, plenty of buffs, the best debuffer in the game as  well as two other solid debuffers that can also deal damage and buff themselves, high powered nukes, multitarget attacks for sweeping trash...is there something I'm missing here?

[The Greatest Dog]

I actually think that's plausible when you put it that way.

But it just depends on how you prioritize your switching in and out of everyone...

Eirin might go tank and heal, but she also has to help switch people out, and with Eirin's slow speed...

[Garlyle]

Marisa, Sakuya, Chen, Cirno, Rumia, Suwako, Flandre, Patchouli, Aya, Okuu, Yuka, someone else

Yeah, fragility would be a pretty significant problem - relying on Sakuya, possibly Aya, to be your tank would be... odd.  Yuka isn't terrible for defenses, is she?  Patchouli can tank MND as is anyway... but yeah.  No real synergy, no magic buffing so Rumia won't be that effective as a healer... yeah, I can see this team having some issues, although to be fair Cirno and Suwako does give some good lockdown, and the team is overall really bloody fast and that'll only be helped by Sakuya and Aya being around.  They would definitely have turn advantage on their side and the power to make use of it.
As for the last slot?  I actually wanna say Nitori - she's about as fragile as most of the rest of that cast, and she might pack a punch, but that's not anything the rest of the team doesn't already carry.

Marisa, Iku, Sanae,Ran,Reisen,Eirin,Mokou,Yuyuko,Renko,Maribel,Yuka,Reimu.

Only flaw I see is that there's no real physical attackers (Which sort of potshots Iku a little) and elemental coverage is a little weak (Almost everyone's MYS or SPI, and your non-elemental options are very limited - Ran might actually go good on offense for that because you have so many buffers you won't really need her for her support functions).  I can definitely see this team beating the game, although it'll have hell the moment it has to fight Dual Hibachi.

Don't you dare start a new game with "worst possible party" punk! I'm on to you! *Eiki lightning bolts you*

That wasn't my intention at all.
...But now I'm considering it

[Ghaleon]

Dual Hibachi.

That's what I was going for. Theoretically you could using the "attack" function. But that's where "without cheating during the course of 1 lifetime" part comes in.

I believe defeating dual Hibachi (and bloody papa btw) is a requirement in order to get to winner is it not? For a star thing? So it's not really all that optional after all.

[Garlyle]

That's what I was going for. Theoretically you could using the "attack" function. But that's where "without cheating during the course of 1 lifetime" part comes in.

I believe defeating dual Hibachi (and bloody papa btw) is a requirement in order to get to winner is it not? For a star thing? So it's not really all that optional after all.

Well, you can avoid fighting Dual Hibachi until like halfway into the Plus Disk, so that's lots of time to get extra levels.  I know you have to fight it eventually though.

Either way, that's why I said "You can beat the game with it".  You just might not be able to do the Plus Disk - or at least not all of it.

I mean there's always Renko to damage both of them but the level needed for that to become feasible would be ridiculous and you'd kind of ruin Charge in the process...

[Ghaleon]

Well, you can avoid fighting Dual Hibachi until like halfway into the Plus Disk, so that's lots of time to get extra levels.  I know you have to fight it eventually though.

Either way, that's why I said "You can beat the game with it".  You just might not be able to do the Plus Disk - or at least not all of it.

I mean there's always Renko to damage both of them but the level needed for that to become feasible would be ridiculous and you'd kind of ruin Charge in the process...

...forgot about that.
replace her with someone who can't then. Or make a physical-only party (which would be worse off since th ere is no "attack" function via magic".. I don't know if there are 12 characters who have absolutely no magical based attacks though.

But yeah, dual-hibachiv2 is probably still stupidly impossible within the length of 1 lifetime or without cheating even with renko damage. or dual hibachi 1, or a combination, or bloody papa, you get the idea.

Personally I consider plus disk "fair game" enough now to be treated as part of the game. Special disk didn't really nerf the stats on the enemies quite so much. But selling items really makes the "grindfest" in special disk pretty much completely non existant except for 30f, which is now made much faster as well with the introduction of the 'm' key.