Labyrinth of Touhou 5F

[FantomFang]

More technical issues...

My Config file seems not to affect the game at all. I wanted to mute the BGM volume for those times when I had to level grind and got tired of the music. However, I put the slider to 0% and unchecked the box, and the BGM still plays when I start the game. Maybe it has to do with the fact that my Config file isn't in english?

You could always just open the Volume Mixer and mute the individual application. Would mute SFX in addition to the BGM (although they may be supposed to get muted with that slider, I dunno) though. This

[Ghaleon]

More technical issues...

My Config file seems not to affect the game at all. I wanted to mute the BGM volume for those times when I had to level grind and got tired of the music. However, I put the slider to 0% and unchecked the box, and the BGM still plays when I start the game. Maybe it has to do with the fact that my Config file isn't in english?

I have the same issue. Sucks if I want to turn off spell animation too. Is it normal to only have 1 config.exe file?

[Bananamatic]

If you want to turn off the music, just put all of the sound files into a different folder

[Ghaleon]

If you want to turn off the music, just put all of the sound files into a different folder

I actually just wnat to turn down the volume rather than turn it off though...So I can hear people talking to me via vent/skype while I play >=P

[FantomFang]

I actually just wnat to turn down the volume rather than turn it off though...So I can hear people talking to me via vent/skype while I play >=P

Just do what I mentioned then. Go to the volume icon in the bottom-right, right-click, select "Volume Mixer", and then mute/reduce the volume for that individual application. It won't effect the other applications, just leave the general volume, windows sounds, etc. alone.

[Bananamatic]

isn't that just for vista?

[FantomFang]

Works on Windows 7. Pretty sure I could do it on Vista. Not sure when it was implemented though, so I guess no promises on older OS's. I'd be surprised too if Mac didn't have an equivalent.

EDIT: Urgh, Google Image search suggests that it isn't on XP or further back. Maybe there's another way... I've been using Vista/W7 for so long now because of the software alliance for my school I barely remember XP  :V

[Ghaleon]

Works on Windows 7. Pretty sure I could do it on Vista. Not sure when it was implemented though, so I guess no promises on older OS's. I'd be surprised too if Mac didn't have an equivalent.

EDIT: Urgh, Google Image search suggests that it isn't on XP or further back. Maybe there's another way... I've been using Vista/W7 for so long now because of the software alliance for my school I barely remember XP  :V

Yeah, I'm using XP.

Even if I was using 7..I still have the problem of config.exe not turning off spell details.

[Esoterica]

Works on Windows 7. Pretty sure I could do it on Vista. Not sure when it was implemented though, so I guess no promises on older OS's. I'd be surprised too if Mac didn't have an equivalent.

I seriously never knew about this.  I'm going to have to try it now.

[FantomFang]

I seriously never knew about this.  I'm going to have to try it now.

I realized it by accident originally myself. Heh.
Finally finished exploring Floor 18, btw. Party ranges from LVL 79-92, w/Reimu being the highest at 92  :V
Think I'm going to give the 18F boss a run to see how it goes. Wish me luck!

EDIT: Ouch, kind of stinks when he always seems to go after my cannons the second they hit the field xD I am a bit underleveled, I think I'll just grind up a few levels until Reimu 95 or so... probably doesn't help that quite a few of my party members are low 80's...I guess even with the long repetitive nature of 18F and my tendency to jump back if characters died in battle before i could start exploring new areas I'm still underleveled, thanks to me basically skipping basically all of 17F. The enemies were just too annoying there lol.

[BallerSupreme]

I think Reimu 92 should be high enough. I seem to recall doing the fight somewhere between Reimu 85 and Reimu 90 (I also skipped the 17f because I got impatient) Reimu 94 was my winning attempt. The wiki suggests Reimu 90 for the battle I think.

I found the most difficult part was the first section, as while my tanks, Reimu, and Ran could survive 1 Heavenly Demise with buffs, most of my other party mates could not. My general strategy: Meiling and Tenshi took the first two slots, Reimu third and Ran fourth. I worked it out so that Meiling and Tenshi would be a bit slower than Reimu, Ran, and my neutral nukers, so I could bypass all of their delays by switch hax.

Basically, it was hope he didn't rape my team in the first form with an unlucky Rasetsu Fist. I found that it became very easy once the elemental forms started, since switching around my two neutral nukers and the dedicated form destroyer provided enough damage to destroy the form before his first turn (with the exception of his Mystic form, cuz I didn't prepare properly for that). The last form had so little hp, so if you're lucky enough, you can down it in a turn or two.


If you want some more specifics...
I actually was having a lot of difficulties with the fight, until I watched one of Parallaxal's videos on youtube. The idea that helped me the most was to prepare a character to deal with each of his elemental forms (which have about 280k hp each) and gear them with elemental resistances and damage. I ended up using Alice for the Water form, Aya for Nature, Suwako for Wind (and first and final), Marisa for Spirit, Ran for Mystic, and Nitori, Flandre to help out in general. I actually had Aya ko'd in the first form early on, but Nitori and Flandre did a good enough job for it not to matter when the nature form popped out.

[Esoterica]

I think Reimu 92 should be high enough. I seem to recall doing the fight somewhere between Reimu 85 and Reimu 90 (I also skipped the 17f because I got impatient). The wiki suggests Reimu 90 for the battle I think.

I'm pretty sure it starts being doable in the late 90s but is best done in the low 100s.  I'm still getting pasted at Reimu lv103.

[RainfallYoshi]

I HATE YOU MOKOU!

Seriously, so much hate right now. I can usually manage to keep most everyone alive until Ressurection and then she always is able to act before I can nuke her. Hax Mokou, Pure Hax.

[BallerSupreme]

I'm pretty sure it starts being doable in the late 90s but is best done in the low 100s.  I'm still getting pasted at Reimu lv103.

Oh turns out I remembered wrong. I pulled up one of my archived saves, Reimu was level 94 when I won.

[Garlyle]

Yeah, the "Reimu 90" is a minimum, not a recommendation.  And I don't think anyone's actually succeeded that low (92 is the lowest I know of).  Most people edge closer to 100+ before succeeding.

[BallerSupreme]

so just for fun, I decided to go at it again with Reimu 94, as I had the save loaded up anyway.

I believe I did 4 tries total, 2 of them being auto quits because Tenshi got hit by Rasetsu fist as the first action each time.

My first try I wasn't sure how fast my characters were, and for some reason didn't buff attack with Ran. It ended somewhere after 4 phases, because I couldn't do damage.

My fourth run was the victory one.

Overall, I lost two characters, being Aya and Kaguya, who both got caught in a Heavenly Demise when I slipped up a switch during Nature form.

My full party was Tenshi, Meiling, Reimu, Ran, Nitori, Flandre, Suwako, Marisa, Kaguya, Aya, Chen, and Alice.

The only difficulty in the fight was making sure I didn't lose anyone to Rasetsu fist in the first phase, and avoiding a double Heavenly Demise before I could get my defense up. I used a lot of swapping to get around big delays, and generally had Reimu buff up my tanking team (Tenshi, Meiling, Reimu, and Ran) while Ran buffed up my attackers. It was worth noting, with around 72% def/mnd, my tank team took 0 from Heavenly Demise (cept for Ran who took 1k or so).

I got 3 of Ran's buffs off before I triggered Rinnosuke's form change. That allowed Nitori to do 100k with Megawatt and Flandre did around 90k with Starbow. Generally I swapped Ran and Reimu in if I missed delay (this happened on two of the six elemental forms) and had them tank some hits, and rebuff while my tanks did nothing but swap (or focus if I was waiting to tank a hit).
Suwako's nuke did a very impressive 150k to the wind form, Marisa's Master spark buffed at 100% did 240k to the spirit form. Alice did 90k a shot to the water form, Kaguya did something like 100k that much to the Mystic form, and I don't really remember what else I did there.
I also spent downtime between forms (when i did enough to trigger a form change) to do a bit of buffing and to try and swap in attackers that might be useful for the next form (generally Flandre and Nitori). Fire form wasn't a big deal either, I used NItori and Flandre

On nature form, I accidentally switched Kaguya in the second slot instead of Aya, and decided to wing it anyway. The result was a Heavenly Demise which killed Aya and Kaguya. Aya actually had enough hp to tank one, but she had been hit by one earlier, so it wasn't very good.

The final form wasn't really noteworthy either. I made sure to save enough sp on nitori for one megawatt, so she got that off, I also got off a starbow break, tanked an attack and swapped to Chen, who killed him with 1 Idaten.

Overall I was a bit lucky and Tenshi never got hit by Rasetsu fist (instead Meiling was hit).

I think it's doable at 90, I don't think 4 levels would've made a very large difference as I never ran into any close calls, my only deaths were due to swapping the wrong person in, and my tank team could survive attacks with a large margin (except for Rasetsu fist on Tenshi) granted I did luck out at the first phase and didn't get double Heavenly Demise before I got buffs up. Also, every person on my non-tank team (except for Aya and possibly Alice) could die in one hit from Heavenly Demise, so I was also lucky there as I missed switching out in time twice.

EDIT: thinking about it a bit more, 4 levels probably did make the difference between sweeping a form in one turn with my equipment setup. I think it's worth noting that I geared everyone except Nitori, Marisa, and Flandre with defensive and affinity gear rather than pure damage (I had 5 blue sabers though, which I didn't even allocate that well as 3 went on Chen who only attacked once). Maybe at 90, with damage gear, maybe the form sweeping speed would be the same.

[Ghaleon]

I'm pretty sure it's doable at below 90. But thing is I seem to be about 92 with NO out of the way grinding whatsoever. Being that far in the game at a lower level would require screwed up enemy spawns, and/or ignoring blank areas on the map...which is simply not an option for the perfectionist side of me >=P

[Pesco]

Who says you have to spend all your exp levelling at every opportunity.

[FantomFang]

Well, the real problem for me is not as much Reimu 92, as much as some of my characters have yet to break lvl 80 (Suwako/Flandre). Also, it seems several of my characters are right below the threshold of survivability on several of his attacks. Heavenly Demise, elemental All attacks, etc. A few levels should give me the breathing room to give some of my squishier, but not Patchy squishy, characters some breathing room. My plan is just to get to Reimu 95-97 or so by grinding for the items I'll need for the PostGame stars right now, as I still have some items I'm missing on the lower page numbers that i can go seek out. Makes for non-pointless grinding, at least.  :V

[Ghaleon]

Who says you have to spend all your exp levelling at every opportunity.

I know but there is no point NOT to unless you want to go for records or bragging rights or something, which hasn't really been an interest for me and probably not for most people. Just have fun dammit =p.

As for phantoms last post... I can't quote it on my phone but:

Reimu 92 is a reference point FOR everyone. Everyone in your party of 12 gets exp equally, so people simply use reimu as a "standard" so to speak to measure party exp. I'm pretty sure everyone has their slow legalese in the 80s as well. I know in my video, pretty much everyone in my party was except for reimu, rumia, and china.

Patchy btw should actually have an easy time surviving heavenly demise, her mnd is more than enough to compensate for her bad def on composite attacks, just don't have her anywhere but the back or else tai slash will pawn her. Just don't neglect her mnd because it's "high enough anyway", testing it equally to her mag ensures that composite attacks are always tame for her.

[FantomFang]

I know but there is no point NOT to unless you want to go for records or bragging rights or something, which hasn't really been an interest for me and probably not for most people. Just have fun dammit =p.

As for phantoms last post... I can't quote it on my phone but:

Reimu 92 is a reference point FOR everyone. Everyone in your party of 12 gets exp equally, so people simply use reimu as a "standard" so to speak to measure party exp. I'm pretty sure everyone has their slow legalese in the 80s as well. I know in my video, pretty much everyone in my party was except for reimu, rumia, and china.

Patchy btw should actually have an easy time surviving heavenly demise, her mnd is more than enough to compensate for her bad def on composite attacks, just don't have her anywhere but the back or else tai slash will pawn her. Just don't neglect her mnd because it's "high enough anyway", testing it equally to her mag ensures that composite attacks are always tame for her.

Yeah, I undestand what you mean. The problem is that the chars I mentioned specifically (Suwako, Flandre, at the very least) have been running on 80% of Reimu experience for quite a while now, and some of the others are a bit behind her exp total as well from late pickups. The people who I've had from the really early game are much better off.

Anyways, I'll be giving it a shot again after I finish the aforementioned item search.
Another question though: if I were to go about doing the PostGame content after finishing these last few floors, is there anything I should know about team configuration? How do the higher power levels affect strategy in general?

EDIT: I probably should raise Patchy's MND a bit more now that you mention it. I'd been focusing on MAG to allow her to more effectively sweep annoying enemies like Helgelmeres (sp?) and their massive defenses. Plus, I've heard she's not that great in the Postgame, so I might consider replacing her with another nuker  like Nitori since I have a heavy buffing focus to my party.

[BallerSupreme]

The major I noticed was that a lot of things are extremely fast. Most fights in the postgame can be done with strategy, but massive damage race (which 18f, 16f, nitori, flandre/kaguya team are excellent at) tends to work really well.

For team configuration I suggest picking up Mystia as soon as you can, because her PAR is fantastic and will help in almost everything you do. Otherwise I don't think it really changes much, though using Kaguya will help in several boss fights and for floor trash in plus disk. She's excellent at killing anything that doesn't resist her last three spells (like Helbelmeres), as they all ignore magic defense.

Strategy-wise, fights involve a lot of good switching to avoid delay (as normal I guess?), making sure you swap out nukers, count hp and count turns. It'd probably be a good idea to check the database before every boss fight to help with a strategy. Otherwise I found postgame very straightforward.

You'll end up with millions of skill points from floor 20 grinding anyway, so it won't be tough working out a party you like, and you'll probably use a few different members in your party for whatever you do anyway.

[Ghaleon]

Why is it I'm the only person who thinks Kaggy's best spell is her buff. I mean mnd-piercing is great and useful for certain situations yes, but..but.. Her buff is honestly the best spell in the game IMO (better than 16f's even since it adds a buff, has less delay, is on a faster character, and is easier to manage). Anything anybody can do Kaggy can make better!

[Esoterica]

Why is it I'm the only person who thinks Kaggy's best spell is her buff. I mean mnd-piercing is great and useful for certain situations yes, but..but.. Her buff is honestly the best spell in the game IMO (better than 16f's even since it adds a buff, has less delay, is on a faster character, and is easier to manage). Anything anybody can do Kaggy can make better!

If her stats were more like Iku than Patchy so she could actually tank while throwing out her buff, I might prefer her more for that role.  As it stands, I already have characters that can throw around buffs, and there's always tanks able to switch nukers around after every 0-ATB powernuke.

She can definitely be useful for buffing when exploiting an elemental weakness or fueling a powerhouse like Youmu or Nitori, though.

[Parallaxal]

Defeated Double Hibachi Ver.2, fight went way smoother than Ver.1 did. Highest level was Rumia lvl 480 (because I can't use Reimu level for comparison, heh). Only deaths were to the first Dual Funeral Washing Machine (I switched in those 3 empty slots for subsequent DFWMs). That's to be expected, as Dual Funeral Washing Machine is a OHKO to anyone except Meiling.

Believe it or not, pre-berserk mode, the MVP damage dealer was none other than Reisen. She had more than enough SP to drink a Grand Patriot's Elixir every other turn, keeping her stats at +80-100% for the whole battle. With that, her combined DEF and MND were comparable to Meiling's, so she stayed in for the entire fight (until DFWM). Since she was the only damage dealer who could stay in for so long, she used her time to do well over 23 million damage to Hibachi #1, which is actually way more than even Nitori did to Hibachi #2 during that same time. If anything, Reisen did too much damage, as I killed Hibachi #1 while Hibachi #2 still had quite a fair bit of HP left. And Nitori needed Keine and Iku to keep her buffed up, while Reisen was completely self-sufficient with buffs of her own! It's amazing how well Reisen's power level increases once she gets the SP to use Grand Patriot's Elixir freely. I even let her stay in to switch characters quickly during Hibachi #2's berserk mode, as Grand Patriot's Elixir was as good as Cat's Walk at delaying her turn.

Video coming soon.

[Ghaleon]

If her stats were more like Iku than Patchy so she could actually tank while throwing out her buff, I might prefer her more for that role.  As it stands, I already have characters that can throw around buffs, and there's always tanks able to switch nukers around after every 0-ATB powernuke.

She can definitely be useful for buffing when exploiting an elemental weakness or fueling a powerhouse like Youmu or Nitori, though.

Yeah I'm not talking about people disliking kaggy herself, I'm talking about her spell specifically >=)

[Esoterica]

Yeah I'm not talking about people disliking kaggy herself, I'm talking about her spell specifically >=)

I was talking about that specific spell too.  She lacks the HP to be able to sit out in the active party and throw buffs around unlike characters like Iku, and people running a secondary tank aren't going to have problems switching nukers in and out instead of resorting to a costly buff to give them their turn again.  It's a nice buff, but I usually get more effect out of her by switching her in and out for Hourai Barrages.

[Ghaleon]

I was talking about that specific spell too.  She lacks the HP to be able to sit out in the active party and throw buffs around unlike characters like Iku, and people running a secondary tank aren't going to have problems switching nukers in and out instead of resorting to a costly buff to give them their turn again.  It's a nice buff, but I usually get more effect out of her by switching her in and out for Hourai Barrages.

Oh I see, If you spend level ups on her mnd instead of her mag, you can safely stay out for magical enemies much like patchy can though. And her buff wont get gimped, and her def piercing spells still remain powerful enough to 1shot  those enemies with obscene mnd and def (except those crabs on 27f until some grinding is done, but I think that's the case even if you build mag (though less grinding is needed), though I'm not sure).

Honestly I don't know how people play where everyone is apparently switched out all the friggin time. I mean everyone shits on the characters who can actually take a hit and dps (like remi), and swear by characters who tend to get 1shot. But I don't care how fast your tank is, there's just no way 1 tank can swich out 3 party members of glass cannons in and out in between boss attacks AND do whatever it is they do as a tank (like heal themselves occasionally for china's case). I see people go "hurr if you have ___ out when the boss attacks you're a stupid fuckup who should just jump off a balcony shitface!!!!"..Then I see videos of thoe characters out on boss attacks, then the same people talking about how good they are.. I just don't get it...Not that I'm saying you're one of them.

[Garlyle]

I was talking about that specific spell too.  She lacks the HP to be able to sit out in the active party and throw buffs around unlike characters like Iku, and people running a secondary tank aren't going to have problems switching nukers in and out instead of resorting to a costly buff to give them their turn again.  It's a nice buff, but I usually get more effect out of her by switching her in and out for Hourai Barrages.

Surprisingly, I've had very few problems with Kaguya's survivability in practice, much like Patchouli's.  They've both got the MND and affinities to negate a lot of stuff almost entirely, and the majority of physical attacks that will hit everyone are row-based.  Obviously there are exceptions, and all it takes is one badly-timed Snipe or Slash Dive or whatever else attack to take them down - but with that said, most characters in the game can be waylaid in a single attack if it's the right one.

But yeah.  I use Kaguya for both buffing -and- Hourai Barrage/Swallow's Cowrie Shell.  I just use whichever is more appropriate at the moment, since her usefulness as a damage dealer can be really affinity-dependant (But it's awesome when it works)

But I don't care how fast your tank is, there's just no way 1 tank can swich out 3 party members of glass cannons in and out in between boss attacks AND do whatever it is they do as a tank

You really don't get how the whole switching thing works, do you?  Hint: That's not how you do it.

[RainfallYoshi]

I would actually recommend 2 tanks for bosses. My current strategy with Mokou is to start off with Meiling, Eirin, Reisen, and Cirno and mass debuff her stats (speed from the get go). I have enough time to switch Reisen and Cirno out for Reimu and Aya before the first Tsuki then it's just a matter of mass party shuffling.

Basically in-between every Mokou turn I do this: Switch in Reimu for Reisen (Discarder), Switch in Reisen for a Nuke (Nitori, Suwako, Yuugi, or Marisa), Nuke, Switch nuke out for another nuke, Nuke, Switch back to tanking party before next Mokou turn (Meiling, Eirin, Aya, Reimu).

Yes, keeping Mokou at -50% Speed gives you that much time in-between turns.

MY problem is once she uses Ressurection. *rage*