Labyrinth of Touhou 5F

[BallerSupreme]

I like going with a SPD build for Cirno, as a fast Diamond Blizzard makes floor trash a snap. Many later floors are rendered quite easy with a fast mass paralysis effect (18F comes to mind), and Cirno's the best you've got for the task until the Plus Disk. Her spells will never be strong enough to sweep most floor trash on her own, so the paralysis will be the her most important contribution against floor trash. Reisen isn't really a good replacement for Cirno's SPD debuffs, and SPD is arguably more important to debuff than any other stat.

I'm actually not too concerned about floor trash before Plus Disk, though I'll most likely use Cirno to help with that. I still haven't decided if I'll do any of Plus Disk, and if I'll let myself use Mystia (and others). I actually didn't use par very much for floor trash (though as you mention 18f, using a dedicated par like Cirno would've made the initial leveling there much, much easier  )

I suppose for boss fights I could use both Reisen and Cirno. It's not like I have many other choices anyway. I was thinking it might not be worth the time switching for bosses with debuff resists above 24 though.


It'd be nice if Cirno's stats were a bit higher than they are. I was disappointed by the lack of a strong cold spell (aside from Nitori's) til plus disk.

i'll answer to the best of my knowledge.

1. I did DEF/MND Remi on my first playthrough, and honestly I found her extremely underwhelming.  Her damage didn't keep up, and I still found her tanking lackluster compared to the likes of Meiling, Tenshi, and even Komachi.

2. Again, did this on my first run.  She'll only be good when your active team looks like Remi - 16f - Ran - Chen.

3. Still not sure what the preferred build is here, but he would definitely make a suitable first slot tank.

4. Sakuya's damage is pretty crappy, tbh.  Killing Doll hits hard on low-DEF opponents, but those are few and far between.  You'll be using her for speed buffs.

5. Apparently lots of people even go as far as pure MND (trying that this playthrough).  So I'd assume that'd be fine.

6. Speed build is probably the way to go so she can get more attempts with Icicle Fall and Diamond Blizzard.  You could try a DEF/MND build with White Album, but I really don't see that accomplishing anything.

7. Eirin's definitely supposed to be a tank that can function as a backup healer.  You shouldn't be expecting damage from her.

1. I guess, to be more specific, can atk Remilia 1st slot tank the normal game?

2. Does pure mag 16f tank better than mind/def Ran? I was thinking Remilia/18f, Ran, 16f, Chen, and swapping 16f and Youmu between boss attacks, especially with Ran's good speed.

4. Do you think she'd do better in 2nd slot than Reimu? If not, I guess i'll use a speed build.

Thanks for the answers so far  :V

[trancehime]

>Remilia
>1st Slot Tank
>Entire game

Uhm, no. Her stats scale too horribly for that to be even a possibility, even with massive Skill point twinking. Her role is to kill stuff, not tank. She can make a decent OFFtank, but not a primary one.

[MysTeariousYukari]

1. I guess, to be more specific, can atk Remilia 1st slot tank the normal game?

2. Does pure mag 16f tank better than mind/def Ran? I was thinking Remilia/18f, Ran, 16f, Chen, and swapping 16f and Youmu between boss attacks, especially with Ran's good speed.

4. Do you think she'd do better in 2nd slot than Reimu? If not, I guess i'll use a speed build.

Thanks for the answers so far  :V

Ehh, very possible, but not highly reccomended. I think Remi is better then a lot of people here seem to think she is. But, if anything, Remi and Meiling/16F can tank the 1st and 2nd slots along with her.

1. I'd say go with ATK-Remi

2. Not really... I think... But when I play the game, save for a few charcaters, everyone get's boosted mainly in their main offense stat, Reimu and Ran get MAG, Remi and Flan get ATK, etc...

3. Eirin? Well, DEF or DEF-MND build could possibly tank in 2nd Slot, but their are better people for that, such as Remi.

Also, it's funny watching 30F Boss use one of it's stronger spells and hit a party of Remi, 18F, Eiki and Flan-chan, in that order, for 0s.

[trancehime]

Also, it's funny watching 30F Boss use one of it's stronger spells and hit a party of Remi, 18F, Eiki and Flan-chan, in that order, for 0s.

The 30F bosses all hit 0's for about 20 of my characters around the 50th iteration I fought them.

It gets unsurprising after a while

[Esoterica]

1. I guess, to be more specific, can atk Remilia 1st slot tank the normal game?

2. Does pure mag 16f tank better than mind/def Ran? I was thinking Remilia/18f, Ran, 16f, Chen, and swapping 16f and Youmu between boss attacks, especially with Ran's good speed.

4. Do you think she'd do better in 2nd slot than Reimu? If not, I guess i'll use a speed build.

Thanks for the answers so far  :V

1. Remi's not going to be able to tank the normal game no matter what, even with some serious twinking like Trance said.

2. Doubtful, considering my MAG 16f and MAG Ran have pretty similar defensive stats and HP.

3. What did you do to 3!? :getdown:

4. Probably, though Reimu's pretty solid in slot 2 as well.

[Dular]

I've been playing Touhou Labyrinth for a few weeks now, I've been at floor 30 for about 8 days now(I only kill 20 monsters a day, because it gets boring fast), and I'm level 540.  My leveling system and party build up is something... Well, not amazing anyways. 

Reimu
Marisa
Sakuya
Remi
Patchouli
Meiling
Youmu
Yuugi
Komachi
Suika
Kaguya
Mystia

As you can tell, I've pretty much foregone healing and buffing completely, except for Kaguya.  I built Reimu for pure magic, and gave her some eggs.  She heals Komachi up for a beefy chunk, and Sakuya keeps her speed up at a constant +50%.

But that isn't the point of this post.  How bad do you think I'll do against, winner because...

I can apparently go and fight him now!  What the crap?
(If you can't tell, I haven't even beaten Serpent of Chaos yet.  Those crazy glitches)

[Unassuming Squid]

Remilia and Patchouli are consistently my lowest-level characters, which makes level grinding a pain. Am I doing something wrong, or are they really just that bad at gaining levels?

[Serela]

Remilia and Patchouli are consistently my lowest-level characters, which makes level grinding a pain. Am I doing something wrong, or are they really just that bad at gaining levels?

Characters gain levels at different speeds. Don't worry about it. Level recommendations and such are based off Reimu, by the way.

[Esoterica]

On that note, Eirin  is by far and away my lowest level character out of everyone up to 16f.  I know her leveling speed sucks, but dead last?  I didn't think it'd be THAT bad.

EDIT: Eirin's level 88, Yuyuko's level 90, Yukari is level 88.  Eirin is supposed to have the same leveling rate as Yuyuko, and Yukari should have a slower leveling rate than both.

...excuse me, what?

[Serela]

Yeah, that's one of the reasons her stats aren't as exciting as you might think from a quick glance at her growths. People with 13X leveling rates will be significantly behind everyone else, although they usually have better stat growths. Then 16/18F chars have 14X and level lulslow :V

Also, the later you get a character, the more behind in EXP they'll be, since they'll only have 80% of Reimu's exp, and she's prolly usually in the back gaining 90%. This mostly hurts characters with fast leveling rates (Like if you leave Chen/Rumia in the SDM and pick her up at Reimu lv200, they'd be about 190 despite faster leveling rate, which hurts their stats a good bit), and ones you get in Plus Disk. The grindfests on 20F and 30F even that out, though.

[BallerSupreme]

Remilia has a really slow leveling speed unfortunately. Also, members in the active party get more exp than those in reserve, and they get more exp than those in the SDM.
EDIT:  :V poster above already responded to this part. This thread moves fast!



For some reason I get the feeling that my entire post wasn't read (probably because it is on the previous page). The rules I set for my challenge run were a normal run through of the normal game (first 20 floors) with only game necessary characters. Because it isn't a ng+, I won't have 16f or 18f until their respective floors, and I definitely won't have Meiling since she is an optional character.

No matter what I do, Remilia will have to first slot tank until at least I get Eirin, who is the same or worse as Remilia in hp, defense, mind, speed, and leveling requirements, but has superior affinities. If I use 16f as main tank, her leveling progression is much worse than Remilia's, not to mention her speed. The only thing that she is better than Remilia would be her mind and again affinities.

She also happens to be superior to 18f in everything except mind, (9 vs 10), and affinities but she also levels faster than him as well.

I feel like affinities aren't especially hard to raise around 14f and higher when you actually start needing them.

So after thinking about it myself, I probably will have to twink Remilia as a tank, considering I don't have any other choice. If 18f/16f can main tank, then I don't see why Remilia shouldn't be able to.

[BallerSupreme]

accidentally hit quote instead of modify
 :blush:

[Esoterica]

No matter what I do, Remilia will have to first slot tank until at least I get Eirin, who is the same or worse as Remilia in hp, defense, mind, speed, and leveling requirements, but has superior affinities.

The upside to having Eirin as a tank is her ability to self-heal with Hourai Elixir.  With Reimu, Yukari, and Ran tossing buffs around, Eirin could very well work as a pseudo-China.

[Mr. Sacchi]

I've been playing Touhou Labyrinth for a few weeks now, I've been at floor 30 for about 8 days now(I only kill 20 monsters a day, because it gets boring fast), and I'm level 540. 

 

(I only kill 20 monsters a day, because it gets boring fast), and I'm level 540.

and I'm level 540.

level 540.

***WINNER***: YOU'RE 100 LEVELS TOO EARLY TO FACE ME!

Or so I heard anyways, good luck on the mass 1week-long grinding >_>''

Also.

Any ideas on how to beat eientei? Without mass grinding?

[Bananamatic]

Winner is beatable at high 500s. 550 might be pushing it.

eientei...just buff patchy with iku and spam them with royal flare, had no problems with them myself

anything except for their super nukes was harmless

[Krimmydoodle]

Actually, on the note of experience rate, all 12 characters inside the labyrinth get full experience (at least, as of Special Disc) , and only the people left behind at the SDM get their experience dropped (to 80%, as said).

I'll also echo the Royal Flare damage race method of beating Eientei here.  Playing the fight defensively takes forever and is a crapshoot as far as praying you don't see Astronomical Entombing or Hourai Barrage.  Go all out and try to kill them before they kill you (using Reimu or Cirno in an attempt to land some Paralysis can be helpful too).

[Esoterica]

Any ideas on how to beat eientei? Without mass grinding?

Like Banana said, have Iku buff Patchy and Royal Flare will win the fight for you.

Spamming PAR on Reisen isn't a bad idea either.

[BallerSupreme]

Hmm, that sounds pretty useful, though if i use her as a 2nd slot, I could give it to Remilia  :V.

If I use Sakuya as my 2nd slot tank until Ran, I might be able to use a half mag/mnd build for Reimu to help with the lack of mag buffs and Minoriko.


for Eientei, if you want to use someone besides patchouli, you can stunlock them for the entire battle using a mixture of Komachi, Cirno, Suwako and Yuugi. Suwako's stun is ridiculous, and Yuugi's stun can help increase the chance of landing one of her stuns, while Komachi and Cirno can stun and lower speed. Alice's mag debuff can also be useful if you have to take a hit. (Eirin and Kaguya both have 0 debuff resist)
Reisen is the least dangerous of the three by far and also has no par resistance, so save her for last.
Just keep in mind, when you swap someone in their delay (and the swapper's) is set to 75%, so if your tank's speed is a bit slower than that of whoever you're swapping in, you can always swap someone else in after every single attack.

[Esoterica]

while Komachi and Cirno can stun and lower speed. (Eirin and Kaguya both have 0 debuff resist)

no no no no no

If you put more than 2 debuffs in play, Kaguya will usse Buddha's Stone Bowl, clearing all their status effects and increasing all stats by 35%.  I'd say PAR and PSN on Reisen, then try to take out Eirin and Kaguya around the same time.

[BallerSupreme]

But if you stunlock them they won't.
while Kaguya's par resist is fairly high, she can definitely be killed off of one good par

edit: not to misunderstand, this strategy is risky, but I find it an interesting alternative since with a bit of luck (landing a good stun on Kaguya), the battle is completely trivialized. After all, Kaguya has half the hp of Eirin. If you're going for a very consistent strategy, ignore it.

[Serela]

Icicle Falling Kaguya and/or Eirin isn't a bad idea, especially considering they have 0 DBF resist. Just don't hit all three, and don't use Alice in this fight (at least until one of those two is dead)

[FantomFang]

From my one time through I can say that paralysis does work excellent. The battle's not too bad when you have Reimu paralyzing like crazy while you pump out the dmg. Really, its not that hard of a battle normally. The only bosses I've fought that wrecked me were Youmu (darn my inexperience!) and ... Great Stamp, i think? Others were hard, certainly, but with proper prep you should be able to beat them in 1-2 tries (haven't grinded yet myself, except for BP for a certain recruitment)

[Parallaxal]

I've successfully PAR-hax'd Eitentei before, but that was on a NG+ file with Renko.

The buffed Royal Flare strategy is the quickest and safest way to win, I believe, although Marisa and Asteroid Belt is not bad too. Like with Royal Flare, Eirin is weak to MYS while Kaguya resists it. Iku is arguably the best tank for this fight; if you've been using her level-up bonuses on MND (which you should), she should have better MND than Tenshi right now. Eientei uses magic attacks almost exclusively. Plus, Thundercloud Stickleback is just an insane offensive buff that will speed things up tremendously. Just equip a PAR resistance ring or two.

(*sigh* Killed Serpent of Chaos 12 times, and still no drop.)

[RainfallYoshi]

I tanked Eintei most of the battle with Meiling, Reimu, and Minoriko while Patchy was in 3rd slot until her SP ran out and from then on I just used 3rd slot for nukes. If you've been building Minoriko with MND levels, she'll hardly ever take damage from anything.

Royal Flare spamming is definitely the best method for Eintei since it does great damage to all 3 at once. Once someone dies you'll want to go all out offensive with nukes though.

Wriggle PSN on Eirin could also be a good idea.

[MysTeariousYukari]

Para, I believe Serpents drop rate is either .5% or 5%, so it'll take some time, but it is GODLY!

Winner could be beaten below Level 500 if you Skill Levels are high enough. But otherwise, 480+ is probly a good point to consider trying to win. Bonus Points if your victory was actually a Joke Attempt.

[Esoterica]

I tanked Eintei most of the battle with Meiling, Reimu, and Minoriko while Patchy was in 3rd slot until her SP ran out and from then on I just used 3rd slot for nukes. If you've been building Minoriko with MND levels, she'll hardly ever take damage from anything.

Royal Flare spamming is definitely the best method for Eintei since it does great damage to all 3 at once. Once someone dies you'll want to go all out offensive with nukes though.

Wriggle PSN on Eirin could also be a good idea.

I prefer stacking PSN with PAR on Reisen.  Encourages Eirin to spam Hourai Elixir on the character you aren't targetting, which practically functions as a free PAR on Eirin as well.

[Serela]

Wriggle PSN on Eirin could also be a good idea.

Wriggle PSN on bosses is great until Plus-Disk, where speed increases turn PSN's damage into crap. I'd recommend using Wriggle on bosses until after beating 16F (And maybe on the final boss)

Para, I believe Serpents drop rate is either .5% or 5%, so it'll take some time, but it is GODLY!

Winner could be beaten below Level 500 if you Skill Levels are high enough. But otherwise, 480+ is probly a good point to consider trying to win. Bonus Points if your victory was actually a Joke Attempt.

10%, at least in Special Disk.

And I hope you meant 580+ about Winner instead of 480, especially considering his only DEF/MND buffs are Minoriko's single target and Renko's Charge. I've got no idea when beating Dual Hibachi is a good idea, though, especially considering no Kaguya; ver1 he said he had a terrible party for the boss, ver2 I imagine will be a nightmare.

[Bananamatic]

MGL has 10% rate IIRC

also 550 should be possible with a normal party, but his physicals still hurt. 580+buffs reduced his physicals to a manageable amount, while his spells weren't damaging at all...just have lots of elemental resistance.

[Mr. Sacchi]

Iku is arguably the best tank for this fight; if you've been using her level-up bonuses on MND (which you should), she should have better MND than Tenshi right now.

MND? Like, MagicalDefense?

... So I was wrong to put everything into magic...?

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF---

Also, where do I get the para rings? I only have one on me right now, -20 para is (AFAIK) not high at all.

[FantomFang]

How should I build Flandre, btw? Full ATK? Half ATK/MAG?