Labyrinth of Touhou 5F

[Garlyle]

Starting from my 2nd playthrough, I've been getting into the habit of never changing up my team, just for the challenge. Surprisingly, I've had no problems clearing floor trash or bosses. Most notably, Team Unappreciated saw me switching characters very often against floor trash on the higher floors, but thanks to Galaxy Stop, it was rarely a problem for me.

This reminds me that I need to continue my own personal challenge game @_@

[Parallaxal]

Team Unappreciated vs. Beast of Centaurea Ver.2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iqTzycQ-9Y

Buffs, buffs, and more buffs. As well as lots of debuffs for the first part. A very smooth run with no deaths for the hardest of the 4 Ver.2 Bloodstained Seal bosses.

Basic strategy was to have Renko paralyze the boss, Charge up full buffs for most of my team and switch them to reserve, then defeat his first form using only Reisen and Maribel (who can self-buff themselves). When he transformed, I switched over to the characters with maxed out buffs and tanked its rapid-spam attacks while hitting it very hard.

[Garlyle]

God do I ever hate Dual Hibachi.  So Much.

[Esoterica]

Team Unappreciated vs. Beast of Centaurea Ver.2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iqTzycQ-9Y

Buffs, buffs, and more buffs. As well as lots of debuffs for the first part. A very smooth run with no deaths for the hardest of the 4 Ver.2 Bloodstained Seal bosses.

Basic strategy was to have Renko paralyze the boss, Charge up full buffs for most of my team and switch them to reserve, then defeat his first form using only Reisen and Maribel (who can self-buff themselves). When he transformed, I switched over to the characters with maxed out buffs and tanked its rapid-spam attacks while hitting it very hard.

I have to say, I was particularly impressed by Rumia's damage output.  Holy hell.

[FantomFang]

Quick question: Does the game calculate resistance before or after damage reduction from def/mind? It would be awesome if it was before, but I'm guessing it's the other 'way round.
Also, by the time I fight Flan, I'm gonna be so ready. So much exp gained traversing 16F with a bit left to go, and plenty of skill exp to spend on those delicious resistances!  :V

[Garlyle]

Quick question: Does the game calculate resistance before or after damage reduction from def/mind? It would be awesome if it was before, but I'm guessing it's the other 'way round.
Also, by the time I fight Flan, I'm gonna be so ready. So much exp gained traversing 16F with a bit left to go, and plenty of skill exp to spend on those delicious resistances!  :V

I'm fairly certain that it's the latter.

[Parallaxal]

You are correct in assuming affinity resistance is applied after DEF/MND. That's why it's important for Komachi, but not so much for Tenshi.

[Esoterica]

Let's say I were to pick Sanae over Minoriko.  Would a MND build still be the best way to go?

[FantomFang]

Let's say I were to pick Sanae over Minoriko.  Would a MND build still be the best way to go?

I may be relatively inexperienced, but it's what I'm doing. In fact, she's one of the few characters I've been consistently building one way  :V
Her heal is powerful enough as is for most situation, and her buff is useful regardless. And considering her fragility... it's meant the difference between an OHKO several times for me. Just my 2 cents, of course.

EDIT: Yay, no more half-impossible Captchas! Darn things are easier for computers to do, I swear...

[Garlyle]

Let's say I were to pick Sanae over Minoriko.  Would a MND build still be the best way to go?

It should work fine.

Some extra effort into her Speed (and SP early) will help too, since she's got longer delays than Minoriko (Although if she buffs herself up with Miracle Fruit it really helps since that'll up her speed as well).

Personally, I use Sanae more for buffing primarily and healing if it happens to let me save someone else, which is the opposite of how I use Minoriko (Healing foremost, buffing only if there's nothing out to be healed)

[FantomFang]

Wow. Flandre was pathetically easy after clearing 16F. Brought in Kaguya to help out (in lieu of Marisa) for the fight, and had no problems with dmg. Almost all of my guys had 200+ resists, Tenshi/Meiling close to 300. Only had one death, the initial Laeteveinn or w/e wiped out Patchy who basically never left the battlefield except for that.

Speaking of Tenshi/Meiling though, they worked awesome as a tag team here. Tenshi generally took up the 2nd slot for a bit of the fight, buffing herself and switching a few chars in and out while Meiling MTed (since she could take slash dive). Brought in Tenshi when the first Laeteveinn hit, and.... took like 100 dmg. Rebuffed, 0 dmg the next two times it went off. Ofc, looking at my guys now, I didn't realize I had gotten Tenshi's fire res all the way up to 378. No wonder. Nobody ever died to the attack, and I had a full four guys out each time. Hit and run with Suwako/Kaguya late with Iku'd Patchy early made the entire fight a breeze. I was up to Reimu 78 after clearing 16F though, although I think the extra Resist gear I got from there was important than the extra half dozen levels I gained.

Anyways, not nearly as hard as I expected. Now it's time to learn how I can prepare for 16F's boss...(I know who it is, but I know nothing about the fight at this point. Time to bring out Para's let's play...)

EDIT: Only saw one Forbidden Fruit either, and my resists were generally good enough for that too. IMHO, Slash Dive was the only dangerous move for me in the entire battle, and the 2/3x it was used all hit China, so good stuff there. Also, for those interested, everyone in the battle had at least lvl20 in Fire resist and 15 in wind/mystic from using all the SKP from F16. Totally worth it.

EDIT 2: Beat 16F on my first try without any special preparations beyond taking a look at the video Para put up and reading its description xD Accidently knocked her straight from form 1 to 3 more or less. Suwako + SPAAAARK! did most of my dmg, plus a bit from Patchy. Got sketchy at the end when she wipe 3/4ths of my party and then 1/2, but I perservered and finished her w/Spark #3 of the battle, w/Suwako ready to drop a NTR nuke. It's a good thing too, because I would've lost had the final strikes from Marisa and Suwako not done the job.

[Esoterica]

It should work fine.

Some extra effort into her Speed (and SP early) will help too, since she's got longer delays than Minoriko (Although if she buffs herself up with Miracle Fruit it really helps since that'll up her speed as well).

Personally, I use Sanae more for buffing primarily and healing if it happens to let me save someone else, which is the opposite of how I use Minoriko (Healing foremost, buffing only if there's nothing out to be healed)

Alright, I might try her with a not-MAG build this run as well then.

Speaking of which, Eirin.  How should I build her?  50/50 DEF/MND?

[Axel Ryman]

Very, very, VERY important question here....




Did anyone rip the Special Disk music yet?  :V


Edit: Never mind just found it.  :X I should lurk moar.

[Ghaleon]

Very, very, VERY important question here....




Did anyone rip the Special Disk music yet?  :V


Edit: Never mind just found it.  :X I should lurk moar.

IMO the kaggy song is the best from themnew bunch, what do youmguys think?

[Bananamatic]

Only the plus disk boss music is good...the rest sucks IMO.

[Esoterica]

IMO the kaggy song is the best from themnew bunch, what do youmguys think?

Sleepless Night and Eastern Youkai Beauty remixes are the best two, imo.  Oh, and the new Bloodstained Seal music is <3.

Everything else is either meh, or worse than what it replaces.

[Garlyle]

Honestly I don't like most of the new battle/boss themes... by comparison, anyway.  Well, I think I like the Alice Boss track better, but that might be about it.

The new Bloodstained Seal boss song is a pretty good substitute though and I was swapping between them while Dual Hibachi was raping me.  I also like the new final boss track, although I find I prefer it for V2 (And the normal final boss track for V1) for some reason.

I -do- like the new themes for the town though.  ...Argh.

EDIT: Also I had no idea that the Plus Disk boss track got replaced with a remix of Etrian Odyssey music.
......Oh god I can't make up my mind.

[Esoterica]

Alright, I might try her with a not-MAG build this run as well then.

Speaking of which, Eirin.  How should I build her?  50/50 DEF/MND?

*cough cough*

[FantomFang]

Well, I'm getting ready to start 17F today. Should be a "joy".  :ohdear:
Anyone interested in me mapping it out like I did the 7F maze on the wiki, because I was thinking of doing it, despite the headache.

[Garlyle]

There's a couple maps already in existance, but if you'd like to make one proper for the english wiki, go ahead.

Esoterica: Yeah, it's fine.  Don't forget her SP and SPD.  And I wouldn't completely neglect her MAG because Astronomical Entombing can still be decent for attacking trash, and if you plan to make her a permanent fixture in your party she might as well be useful for more than just bosses.

[Bananamatic]

*cough cough*

You "build" her in the SDM and let her stand there :V

[Serela]

Well if you want her to be a 2nd slot tank go for DEF/MND. If you aren't planning on sticking her in the second slot a lot, go all for MND, since it's the more important defensive stat.

[Esoterica]

You "build" her in the SDM and let her stand there :V

That's what I did the first time. :V

There's a couple maps already in existance, but if you'd like to make one proper for the english wiki, go ahead.

Esoterica: Yeah, it's fine.  Don't forget her SP and SPD.  And I wouldn't completely neglect her MAG because Astronomical Entombing can still be decent for attacking trash, and if you plan to make her a permanent fixture in your party she might as well be useful for more than just bosses.

ASStronomical Entombing is still pretty crappy for the SP that goes into it though, and her SP recovery is horrid.  I'd probably just use her as a secondary tank that can throw out some decent backup heals.

[FantomFang]

Just got into this game a week ago thanks to Parallaxal's Let's Play on GitP, and was wondering if I could get some constructive criticism on my current party, as the random encounters have been giving me some problems (only Patchy/Youmu consistently beating the defenses of the walls on 15f hurts)

My Party:

Spoiler:

Reimu 72
Tenshi 67
Meiling 71
Youmu 68
Alice 68
Sanae 69
Kaguya 63
Patchy 64
Marisa 67
Aya 68
Iku 68
Ran 66

Just finished Floor 15 except for the Recruitable boss (Great Stamp took several tries, until I got an easy sequence of attacks plus proper resists + Alice debuff, no deaths there). Any and all comments wanted. Currently the main thrust of my boss strats is to get my party generally boosted some with

Spoiler:

Ran

+ Reimu, bring in Iku to help buff Youmu/Patchy/etc., and switch in and out like crazy to minimize the exposure characters like

Spoiler:

Sanae

get.
Thanks ahead of time  :V

Just another question regarding my team, so quoting my past arrangement for convenience. Replaced Kaggy w/Suwako, and am thinking of replacing someone for Flandre (at the very least, she's joining me in sweeping trash on 18F  :V). Any advice? Should I go ahead and drop my 2nd tank (Tenshi or Meiling)?

[BallerSupreme]

Was thinking about doing a challenge run/let's play of a normal run of the first twenty floors, the challenge being I only use the characters necessary to beat the game, and as it is a normal run I can only use them once I recruit them. I plan on doing all the optional stuff as well as all of the post game, and maybe a bit of the plus disk.

I was thinking it'd be fun and challenging up til at least the 18th floor, but I can't really decide on some of the builds yet and was hoping to get some opinions.

My team will ultimately be

Remilia
Reimu
Marisa
Patchouli
Sakuya
Chen
Youmu
Ran
16f
18f

swapping around last two spots:
Cirno
Eirin
Alice
Reisin

though if I want additional challenge, I might ditch 16f and 18f and only use the first 12 chars.

build questions:

How much better is def Remilia over atk Remilia? I'd have to use her as a main tank up til 16f at the very least. Also, pure def Remi or Def/Mind? Her mind growth doesn't look so bad to me.

16f -> I'm tempted to try a mag based build because I can use Ran and Chen and having another nuker would be excellent. If I did this, Ran would likely be off tank, Remilia main tank. Considering the lack of nukers who need bar filling, this might work out well.

18f -> Sort of considering atk, but I think def/mnd would be much better. Last playthrough I regretted not doing so, as several fights on the plus disk would've been easier if I had done that.

I never bothered using Sakuya as an attacker, does she have any potential as one? If not, I was considering a def or mnd build to try and use her as an off tank, seeing as her hp is quite good. If not, I'd probably end up using Reimu as my offtank for awhile.

For Patchouli, does going something like 50/50 mind mag affect her damage output very much?

What to do with Cirno? I tried an attack based build on my first playthrough, and her boss damage stopped working around floor 10. I'm considering a speed build, since her defensive growths look really low, or maybe an atk build for trash sweeping. I'll probably use Reisen instead of her once I can, except for maybe 16f boss fight, and possibly 20f.

I wasn't very impressed with mag based Eirin, but none of the other girls here have a spirit nuke on par with hers. If I don't use 16 and 18f, she'll definitely be a tank. Otherwise I'm not sure what to use her for.


I was also considering just using defensive builds on everyone except for Youmu, Chen, Marisa, and Reisen and attempting to outlast most of the bosses.  :V I'm surprised at Youmu's hp and defense though. I'd like trying her as a phys tank if it weren't for the fact she'll be my only physical nuker.

Any advice is welcome. I'm looking forward to this run a lot

[Esoterica]

build questions:

How much better is def Remilia over atk Remilia? I'd have to use her as a main tank up til 16f at the very least. Also, pure def Remi or Def/Mind? Her mind growth doesn't look so bad to me.

16f -> I'm tempted to try a mag based build because I can use Ran and Chen and having another nuker would be excellent. If I did this, Ran would likely be off tank, Remilia main tank. Considering the lack of nukers who need bar filling, this might work out well.

18f -> Sort of considering atk, but I think def/mnd would be much better. Last playthrough I regretted not doing so, as several fights on the plus disk would've been easier if I had done that.

I never bothered using Sakuya as an attacker, does she have any potential as one? If not, I was considering a def or mnd build to try and use her as an off tank, seeing as her hp is quite good. If not, I'd probably end up using Reimu as my offtank for awhile.

For Patchouli, does going something like 50/50 mind mag affect her damage output very much?

What to do with Cirno? I tried an attack based build on my first playthrough, and her boss damage stopped working around floor 10. I'm considering a speed build, since her defensive growths look really low, or maybe an atk build for trash sweeping. I'll probably use Reisen instead of her once I can, except for maybe 16f boss fight, and possibly 20f.

I wasn't very impressed with mag based Eirin, but none of the other girls here have a spirit nuke on par with hers. If I don't use 16 and 18f, she'll definitely be a tank. Otherwise I'm not sure what to use her for.


I was also considering just using defensive builds on everyone except for Youmu, Chen, Marisa, and Reisen and attempting to outlast most of the bosses.  :V I'm surprised at Youmu's hp and defense though. I'd like trying her as a phys tank if it weren't for the fact she'll be my only physical nuker.

Any advice is welcome. I'm looking forward to this run a lot

i'll answer to the best of my knowledge.

1. I did DEF/MND Remi on my first playthrough, and honestly I found her extremely underwhelming.  Her damage didn't keep up, and I still found her tanking lackluster compared to the likes of Meiling, Tenshi, and even Komachi.

2. Again, did this on my first run.  She'll only be good when your active team looks like Remi - 16f - Ran - Chen.

3. Still not sure what the preferred build is here, but he would definitely make a suitable first slot tank.

4. Sakuya's damage is pretty crappy, tbh.  Killing Doll hits hard on low-DEF opponents, but those are few and far between.  You'll be using her for speed buffs.

5. Apparently lots of people even go as far as pure MND (trying that this playthrough).  So I'd assume that'd be fine.

6. Speed build is probably the way to go so she can get more attempts with Icicle Fall and Diamond Blizzard.  You could try a DEF/MND build with White Album, but I really don't see that accomplishing anything.

7. Eirin's definitely supposed to be a tank that can function as a backup healer.  You shouldn't be expecting damage from her.

Good luck.

Just another question regarding my team, so quoting my past arrangement for convenience. Replaced Kaggy w/Suwako, and am thinking of replacing someone for Flandre (at the very least, she's joining me in sweeping trash on 18F  :V). Any advice? Should I go ahead and drop my 2nd tank (Tenshi or Meiling)?

I say go for it.  I really don't see the purpose of having both of the pure tanks in your party at once.

[Parallaxal]

Team Unappreciated vs. Serpent of Chaos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUH9cM_-j_A

Yay, 30F boss time! This boss is more intimidating than he is truly dangerous, so long as you take advantage of his long delays and keep tanks in during his 3rd form attacks. The battle wasn't too hard, so I may try farming him for his drop if I'm sufficiently bored of 30F grinding.

What level should I be for 30F Double Hibachi Ver.2?

Just another question regarding my team, so quoting my past arrangement for convenience. Replaced Kaggy w/Suwako, and am thinking of replacing someone for Flandre (at the very least, she's joining me in sweeping trash on 18F  :V). Any advice? Should I go ahead and drop my 2nd tank (Tenshi or Meiling)?

Go ahead and replace your tanks, especially if you're just using Flandre for floor trash. After all, it's not like having 2 tanks will help you beat random mobs.

What to do with Cirno? I tried an attack based build on my first playthrough, and her boss damage stopped working around floor 10. I'm considering a speed build, since her defensive growths look really low, or maybe an atk build for trash sweeping. I'll probably use Reisen instead of her once I can, except for maybe 16f boss fight, and possibly 20f.

I like going with a SPD build for Cirno, as a fast Diamond Blizzard makes floor trash a snap. Many later floors are rendered quite easy with a fast mass paralysis effect (18F comes to mind), and Cirno's the best you've got for the task until the Plus Disk. Her spells will never be strong enough to sweep most floor trash on her own, so the paralysis will be the her most important contribution against floor trash. Reisen isn't really a good replacement for Cirno's SPD debuffs, and SPD is arguably more important to debuff than any other stat.

[Esoterica]

Many later floors are rendered quite easy with a fast mass paralysis effect (18F comes to mind), and Cirno's the best you've got for the task until the Plus Disk.

Reimu and Yukari's PAR effects are both stronger, and are capable of dealing damage.

[Parallaxal]

Reimu and Yukari's PAR effects are both stronger, and are capable of dealing damage.

Their PAR spells barely do any more damage because neither is normally built up for MAG (plus, row-attack Reimu), and Yukari's PAR effect doesn't last longer (it's only PAR-35). Cirno's far better at dealing with floor trash because she has much better SPD than the other two. Good luck out-running Rabbit Snipers, Shub-Nigguraths, and Caelaenos with Reimu and Yukari.

[Esoterica]

Their PAR spells barely do any more damage because neither is normally built up for MAG (plus, row-attack Reimu), and Yukari's PAR effect doesn't last longer (it's only PAR-35). Cirno's far better at dealing with floor trash because she has much better SPD than the other two. Good luck out-running Rabbit Snipers, Shub-Nigguraths, and Caelaenos with Reimu and Yukari.

Wait, Yukari's PAR is seriously that weak?  I could've sworn it was more potent than that...

My Reimu does outrun the rabbits though, so.