Labyrinth of Touhou 5F

[Pesco]

Wiki probably never took into account how powerful a perma 80% buffed Megawatt could be. Stuff like this keep the game awesome fun.

[Ghaleon]

approximately how accurate is the Reimu=120 estimation for the 20f boss? I totally don't remember what I was on my first playthru (which was probably much higher than needed now now that we know more mechanics of this game). The Reimu = 90+ one for 18f boss seems pretty easy to do. And the level estimates for those 15f bosses were BS (they were all a cakewalk 10 levels below their "minimum")  But I'm Reimu 112 atm, and the TRASH on 20F still kills multiple dudes sometimes...

Cosmic was sooooo much easier with a high dps party, that boss was total bs before >=P

[Pesco]

Team (9) was around 130 or so, I can't remember exactly, when I beat 20F. Given that they were also using EXP at a faster leveling rate, I think Reimu at 100 is good enough to start taking on the boss.

[Garlyle]

I'm not so sure about that.  You might be able to take her down, but all it will take is one badly placed Demon-slashing dance, or for her to select an attack like Berserk right after Overflowing Unnatural Power and you're as good as dead at that level.

[yoshicookiezeus]

Well then. Is it just me, or is Hill Gigas ridiculously easy? I accidentally ran into it with my exploring party (which resulted in Mokou getting 1HKO'd before even having the time to attack), lost Reimu and Patchy to Thousand-Handed Kannons during the first few turns, forgot to keep Komachi healed enough to survive the more damaging attacks, and still ended up steamrollering the boss with Linear Guns, Return Inanimates, and a Master Spark thrown in for good measure. (By the way, isn't that the boss that you can also keep in near-constant paralysis lockdown if you have some PAR-inflicting characters with you?)

Now let's go see if the other 15F sigil guardian is as easy.

EDIT: So the other one was Great Stamp... I think I'll have to wait a bit before taking on that thing again.

[Garlyle]

Yeah, Hill Gigas is easy.  Great Stamp is the generally bitchy one.

[Rikter]

Whats a good reimu level for 18F boss?

[Bananamatic]

around 100

[yoshicookiezeus]

Just had an almost perfect Yuyuko battle; apart from me overestimating Mokou's ability to survive the opener, I didn't lose a single character. Perhaps putting off recruiting her until after exploring 15F was unnecessary, after all...

[MysTeariousYukari]

Hill Gigas. Master Spark.

You can actually break 160K(I think) by Sparking that thing, it's crazy weak to MYS-based attacks.

(By the way, isn't that the boss that you can also keep in near-constant paralysis lockdown if you have some PAR-inflicting characters with you?)

I believe you are thinking of a Plus-Disk Boss. I don't know of any Main Game boss that can be Par-Locked, save for The Trio and maybe 16F Boss.

[Rikter]

The Foe's can suffer from par lock fairly often.

[MysTeariousYukari]

The Foe's can suffer from par lock fairly often.

  Your kidding... right? If I had known that, maybe they wouldn't have been such hell for me. Oh well. :V

[Serela]

Hill Gigas can indeed be PAR locked. The FOE's can... with a bit of luck, and not as much the first one due to lack of Suwacker and SP.

For Great Stamp, debuff it's attack with Alice and keep it that way. Don't debuff it's SPD. Have Reimu with around 40% SP recovery so she can use her DEF/MND buff and heal a lot. Try to keep your nukers from being out when it attacks although it isn't that bad if they are (unless it's Patch or the attack debuff is running low), and whittle it's HP down with your nukes and WrigglePSN if you have Wriggle.

^With that strategy, you can win before doing any of 16F.

[Rikter]

Yuugi has decent Par for the first Foe.

[Serela]

Yuugi has decent Par for the first Foe.

Again, SP. PAR only hits Foes 1/3rd of the time, and you've only got 3 people with a 30~45 PAR, not to mention the earlier in the game you are the shorter PAR is due to lower SPD. Unless you get lucky, you'll run out of SP fairly quickly trying to lockdown the first Foe, and not be all that close to killing it due to having spent your time spamming a short-lasting PAR that usually misses.

It's much more effective later in the game when you've got higher SPD for effectively longer PAR, Suwacko's PAR-90 and Komachi's PAR, and enough SP to actually be able to afford such a strategy.

[trancehime]

FFFFFF- Well then, this victory will be that much better, should I achieve it! Please note, my file hasn't even entered 21F yet, as I had only recently gotten the 3rd star needed.

It spent me about 1 month to get Flandre's ATK and MAG both up to 10M+ legitimately

if you seriously plan on doing this without hacking you will spend for-fucking-ever

[Serela]

if you seriously plan on doing this without hacking you will spend for-fucking-ever

well he's already said he's hacking so :V

[trancehime]

well he's already said he's hacking so :V

Hacking to defeat a really hard boss is essentially taking the challenge out of it even more so than actually grinding to obscene levels and there is no effort involved at all... 

[Rikter]

stuff

Those few pars you get can be capitalized upon well and provide you with quite an advantage but I will agree Yuugi really shouldn't be trying to Par so much in that fight but it makes a good move to use if she ever has a free turn.

[Parallaxal]

Team ⑨ was around 130 or so, I can't remember exactly, when I beat 20F. Given that they were also using EXP at a faster leveling rate, I think Reimu at 100 is good enough to start taking on the boss.

Pretty sure you said you were higher.

Mystia at level 162, Wriggle at level 158. I think this is probably the only fight I didn't feel overleveled for. I was dealing around 120k per turn of combined damage. Poison did about 90k (~40% of overall damage). Left summon got killed first. Top and right went down at the same time. I think I'll try post game for a bit with the team.

Back to the original question, I think 120 Reimu is a decent level to attempt the final boss. I did it with Team Unappreciated a little bit higher (although since I wasn't actually using Reimu, it's not an exact estimate), and had a pretty easy time, although I was using Galaxy Stop to hax the first summon at the end while I dealt with the main boss.

[Anima Zero]

Well, I managed to surprise myself here.  Reimu lv574 and *WINNER* has been taken down.  Not even expecting that one.  Only attempted it to see where I stood strength wise and how much more grinding I'd need.  Was my 2nd try of the day.  An early morning attempt went insta-quit with a 2nd round Longsword "Ringil" on my party before I could mount much defensive buffing or healing from the first attack.

2nd attempt was me getting lucky several times.  It decided to burn like a 1/3rd or so of its turns during the first half of the fight using Flesh to Stone.  Never saw Longsword "Ringil" once during the fight either...which I credit as the only reason I got lucky and won this fight.

Bad luck occured too.

Kinda figured the run was borked when Reimu got wiped by a Zantetsuken when she was in the 3rd slot, but I decided to press on since I still had Minoriko for backup healing and 16F for giving out extra turns via the ATB filler spell.

Remi scored the killing blow for me.  Seems only natural my primary tank managed to score the kill (She did come close to getting wiped at one point though).

All in all, lost 4 characters during the fight.

Now I can think about a New Game+ and work on getting more *WINNER* kills (I'm rather crazy, yeah).

[Pesco]

Pretty sure you said you were higher.

Back to the original question, I think 120 Reimu is a decent level to attempt the final boss. I did it with Team Unappreciated a little bit higher (although since I wasn't actually using Reimu, it's not an exact estimate), and had a pretty easy time, although I was using Galaxy Stop to hax the first summon at the end while I dealt with the main boss.

Ah right. I've got level 127 stuck in my head about that area for some reason.

Regarding PAR locks, Mystia solo basically lives or dies based on whether her opener can get both procs off. Against Nitori, the move itself doesn't deal much because of the element but having both effects made the fights piss easy.

The only thing that people really die to is Flowing Hellfire from the Foe line. If you go before it does and get a PAR off, good for you. It's not crucial to maintain a lockdown against them.

[MysTeariousYukari]

The Foe's seem to be similar to the Flame Tyrant. Will burn you crispy when given the chance, (but Foes being more merciful) and the easiest way to win is to Par-Lock, the foes you Par when you can and start nuking, Tyrant you lock up more then Fort Nox(sp?)

[Parallaxal]

Oh yeah, Flame Tyrant is really merciless if you don't PAR-lock him. 20k damage from Flowing Hellfire spam even with 500+ Fire affinity is really not comfortable at all. That was probably Team Unappreciated's worst Plus Disk battle up through 27F (although admittedly, I insisted on a no-PAR run).

But for the Foe enemies, it really isn't necessary, especially since Flowing Hellfire is easy to predict. The thing is, they really don't have bad PAR resistance. All Foe enemies have 24 PAR resistance, which means they resist paralysis 72% of the time. Compare that to the Flame Tyrant, who only has a pathetic 5 PAR resistance stat.

Para-locking the Foes is doable with Suwako due to how long the effect last, but I don't think you'll be able to keep them locked down with lesser PAR effects unless you're extremely lucky.

[RainfallYoshi]

Has anyone else noticed that Mokou's "Wu" has the highest damage multiplier of any of her spells?  :V Too bad it also has the lowest MAG influence.

Also, since I saw a Robe vs. Shell thing for Kaguya I'll point this out. Fire Rat's Robe has MAG influence of 250 and a Damage Multiplier of 100 while Swallow's Cowrie Shell has a MAG influence of 125 and a Damage Multiplier of 250. I have no idea what this compares for damage but the translated database is fun isn't it?

It should also be noted that Suika's Gathering and Dissipating isn't shown to remove stat buffs in the database, despite the in-game description clearly saying that it should (along with debuffs). Was this something that was changed with Special Disk maybe?

Also should be noted that

Spoiler:

Yukari's "Yakumo Ran+" essentially is doubled in power if both Chen and Ran are in the frontlines with her.

Giga Flare ignores MND.  :V

God I love the translated database.

[Parallaxal]

So basically, if whoever made this game had remembered to include MND influence for Kaguya's spells (instead of leaving it out by mistake, as stated in the Database), then Fire Rat's Robe would have been a relatively weak spell with okay MND piercing properties, while Swallow's Cowrie Shell would have been a disappointing Nature spell with a worse formula than Tsuki no Iwakasa's Curse? Good to know.

Then again, Kaguya would have still been useful for Buddha's Stone Bowl. It's just that now she's a great damage dealer as well.

[Ghaleon]

Has anyone else noticed that Mokou's "Wu" has the highest damage multiplier of any of her spells?  :V Too bad it also has the lowest MAG influence.

Also, since I saw a Robe vs. Shell thing for Kaguya I'll point this out. Fire Rat's Robe has MAG influence of 250 and a Damage Multiplier of 100 while Swallow's Cowrie Shell has a MAG influence of 125 and a Damage Multiplier of 250. I have no idea what this compares for damage but the translated database is fun isn't it?

It should also be noted that Suika's Gathering and Dissipating isn't shown to remove stat buffs in the database, despite the in-game description clearly saying that it should (along with debuffs). Was this something that was changed with Special Disk maybe?

Also should be noted that

Spoiler:

Yukari's "Yakumo Ran+" essentially is doubled in power if both Chen and Ran are in the frontlines with her.

Giga Flare ignores MND.  :V

God I love the translated database.

Flame vs shell.. That translates to shell being 25% stronger, nothing more because it ignores enemy def and mind completely. If it did not ignore mind, it would be a whole other ball game.

About 16f boss' move, the wiki said what you mean all along:

Spoiler:

(Normal: 1.5, Ran in back row: 2, Ran in front row: 2.5, Chen and Ran in front row: 3) x ((MAG x same multiplier, but based on Chen instead of Ran) - (T.DEF / 2))

Note though that's more than double. Each multiplier doubles, which is actually quadruple (and in reality it will do more than that unless the target has no defenses)...That's compared to if they are not there at all, if you do have em in your party but are sitting out, it IS just about double (2.25X more powerful).

Unfortunately the spell is really pretty much craptacular for a single target damage spell with that delay and sp cost unless you have them both in the front lines

[Serela]

Yeah, all that stuff you said has been on the English Wiki all year, YellowYoshi :V

Yukari's spell really isn't worth using still yeah. Chen isn't going to be in the front lines much when Yukari can move and with Ran also there, and Yukari is much better off going with DEF or MND levelups instead of MAG. Now, if you DID have a MAG-based Yukari, it'd be about as strong as Saigyouji Flawless Nirvana, when both Chen and Ran are in the active party. But that's just so situational, and Yukari's survivability would be a good bit worse for wear... she's best to just tank and use supporting skills, which she's pretty good at.

[Pesco]

For ver 3.01

001171B0     10-12F red switch
001171B4     10-12F green switch
001171B8     10-12F blue switch

Have fun

[RainfallYoshi]

Yeah, all that stuff you said has been on the English Wiki all year, YellowYoshi :V

Not the change in Suika's "Gathering and Dissipating" description.  :V

Once I find Suika again I'll have to find a way to test it to see if it changed at all with Special Disk. If it no longer removes buff then that would be fun.