Let's argue about why *thing* is/isn't bullshit (Touhou debate thread)

[WanderingKnight]

Whenever I position myself on the far left Aya's card suddenly becomes completely doable.

[Chaotic Phoenixma]

Not always, but I think that's because I always don't look at a big enough area.

I'm pretty sure Peerless Wind God could be consistently done if you're reading stuff in a big enough area. Going to the side of the screen is correct, but staying there tends to get me walled. I think my fails are just more due to not being able to read as big an area as I need to since I'm too focused what's going on around andd above me directly.

After Saruta Cross, Peerless Wind God has my best capture rate for any of Aya's cards. It's still an extremely low rate though.

[Zengeku]

After Saruta Cross, Peerless Wind God has my best capture rate for any of Aya's cards. It's still an extremely low rate though.

For some reason i feel i am the only person in the world who is consistent at Terukuni.

[Chaotic Phoenixma]

I am going to embarass myself so damn badly right now.

Just for ReimuB

Saruta Cross- 31/119
Storm Day- 3/118
Peerless Wind God- 3/112
Terukuni- 0/97

My nonspell captures for Aya are pretty damn bad too. I hate that fight so damn much, and I'd never play the stage in practice mode again once I get Terukuni. It would be real runs only for that stage.

So I'm consistent at Terukuni too, just not the same way.

[Drake]

011121213131313131313etc

Starting in the center, this is my counting for how many circles you jump through before moving to the other side. Not sure if it's totally right, it's just what I recall off the top of my head.

[Zengeku]

Saruta Cross- 31/119
Storm Day- 3/118
Peerless Wind God- 3/112
Terukuni- 0/97
So I'm consistent at Terukuni too, just not the same way.

Kind of makes me feel pretty bad considering what i just did... so i'll keep it a secret for now.

[Chaotic Phoenixma]

You perfected Aya?


Edit: Gave Aya a few more tries. 1 more Storm Day capture, 1 more Peerless Wind God capture. Failed the others spells every time.

[Zengeku]

You perfected Aya?
Edit: Gave Aya a few more tries. 1 more Storm Day capture, 1 more Peerless Wind God capture. Failed the others spells every time.

Yeah, i did. But that wasn't really what i was thinking of.

[RainfallYoshi]

I'm going to randomly jump in and say that EoSD is the least bullshitty game in the series. It's danmaku at its simplest and purest since PC-98. Everything can be done with the right reading skills or by figuring out the pattern. There's not really anything that comes to mind as being purely luck based.

[Azure Lazuline]

EoSD also has weird hitboxes for the bullets and lots of randomness, though. It has the potential to screw you over more than the other games, but it usually doesn't.

[Zengeku]

I'm going to randomly jump in and say that EoSD is the least bullshitty game in the series. It's danmaku at its simplest and purest since PC-98. Everything can be done with the right reading skills or by figuring out the pattern. There's not really anything that comes to mind as being purely luck based.

Totally. And there aren't any weird gimmicks you have to use in order to play successfully.

[Chaotic Phoenixma]

Mystia final nonspell as a Youkai solo is definitely BS.

And don't say that I shouldn't play as a Youkai solo as I've cleared with Yukari and Remilia and plan to do it with Yuyuko as well. Not Alice though, she's terrible.

Keine nonspells too, at least the first parts of it when Youkai solo.

[Drake]

I'm pretty sure considering the game forces the human-youkai system on you which more or less requires both sides, that unlocking individual characters is more of an "extra challenge" in addition to "I only want this shot type".

But yeah Keine noncards can be really hard without blowing up familiars.

[Iryan]

Aha. That would explaing why I have so much problems with IN lunatic: I pretty much never unfocus during bosses.  :derp:

[Zengeku]

Aha. That would explaing why I have so much problems with IN lunatic: I pretty much never unfocus during bosses.  :derp:

Keine becomes much easier if you kill familiars. Her mid-boss card becomes easier. So does her mid-boss non-spell and her boss non-spells and its pretty much the only way to beat her 1st spellcard. It is possible to do without blowing up familiars but its not recommendable.

[Matsuri]

Keine becomes much easier if you kill familiars. Her mid-boss card becomes easier. So does her mid-boss non-spell and her boss non-spells and its pretty much the only way to beat her 1st spellcard. It is possible to do without blowing up familiars but its not recommendable.

Seconding this. Keine's nonspells are insane without taking out familiars.

[WanderingKnight]

Keine becomes much easier if you kill familiars. Her mid-boss card becomes easier. So does her mid-boss non-spell and her boss non-spells and its pretty much the only way to beat her 1st spellcard. It is possible to do without blowing up familiars but its not recommendable.

Also afaik they shoot more bullets (blue ones on top of the red ones) if you're focused during the boss nonspells.

[Zengeku]

Okay guys, Bananamatic not included. What's your opinion on Double Spoiler Scene 9-7? Satori's recollection version of "The Ceiling" of StB?

I decided to bring it up here because its not really a rage post. I have beaten the card with both characters and i'm not terribly interested in points. Besides, there is no way my 31 mil. could stand a chance anywhere anyway.

I think the card is hands down the hardest attack in Double Spoiler. The only reason i have been able to beat it is because its over in three shots. I find myself being pushed to the bottom of the screen in a matter of seconds and soon after finished off on a consistent basis. Imo its 10x harder than Peerless Wind God.

I find the attack frustrating and luck-based. What's your opinion?

It might just be me who sucks or does something wrong but i want to ask you guys about what you think.

[Matsuri]

Absolutely luck-based most of the time. Then again, it's pretty much the same as Kaguya's version, only without the annoying first phases.

[LHCling]

Scoring-wise: Luck-based. (I don't care what you're asking for LALALALALALA)

Playing just to clear: Easy enough to clear. Might take a few more attempts than usual but hey, that's how things work.

For the record (I might as well seeing as at one point, a certain member requested me try it), I can time down by (not to) ~30-40 seconds without taking defensive shots. Take that whatever way you want to.
In summary, 9-7 has just enough of a randomness and difficulty factor for it to not make me scream "BULLSHIT!".

[Naut]

It's "luck based" simply because we can't handle it yet. The bullets don't wall you at all and the attack varies so much that it can't be micro-memorized. The only "luck" that can be applied is if you're not good enough to consistently dodge it (isn't that true for all difficult attacks anyway?). The attack is tough and great for higher-tier players to test their skills on, but has such a low clear requirement that those of us who can't handle the massive speed and density of the bullets can just luck-trash their way through it and never touch it again. The game isn't filled with these extremely difficult to dodge cards anyway, so I think we can deal with one card that is genuinely too hard for us to pass legitimately (for now).

How boring would the game be if everything was piss easy or memorizable, anyway? Gotta have something to keep you on your toes.

[Bananamatic]

How boring would the game be if everything was piss easy or memorizable

:getdown:

[Tengukami]

Brilliant retort, B-dog.

[Naut]

There is a reason why Zengeku didn't include him in this conversation.

[omgrandomnumbers]

Let's bring this over to this thread:
XFD's amulets move straight, and the gaps between the sprites are big enough to accommodate your hitbox...and you can also avoid most of the bullets.  Also, spell practice.  Danmaku Paranoia only requires periodic small movements when Koishi moves (and thus there are the aimed bullets that you move around), and the gap between the bullets is still big enough for your hitbox to avoid touching the sprite.  Better still, the angle of the bullets is such that you'd have to make a fairly big mistake to hit a corner.

Um, that's exactly what I meant. I know how to do Xu Fu - stay at the bottom, tap up once, streamLOL. I know how to do Paranoia - Tap once away from aimed bullets and wait until an aimed one comes at you. I'm saying that those would be impossible if the hitboxes weren't so small. Basically, what I said in the first post if you were paying any attention.

[Sen]

I love Double Spoiler for the most part, and I personally never saw what was so hard about Seamless Ceiling in the original StB. I almost died laughing when ZUN brought it back for Satori's spellcard in DS, since he knows that's the one card everyone hates.

In any case, I thought it was a perfectly fine card. I liked it more than Seamless Ceiling, probably because it's over in three shots. Not particularly time-consuming; I thought 9-1 was loads harder.

[Erppo]

I never understood why people hate Seamless Ceiling. Especially when there is stuff like 9-1 in the same level. I actually think it's one of the least bullshitty cards of it's stage. Yes, it's hard but it's hard in a good way.

9-1in StB is total bullshit however. You have to spend way too long basically surrounded by random bean bullets that have very unclear hitboxes. That and 9-2 are both harder than Seamless Ceiling to me.

[Iryan]

I never understood why people hate Seamless Ceiling.

it's hard

This. This, and personal taste. Personally I think the card(s) is fun.  :V

[Zengeku]

Ehmm when you guys say that 9-1 is harder than the Ceiling and Satori's remix do you mean StB 9-1 or DS 9-1? Personally i think either of these cards are loads easier than the ceiling.

The StB version is pretty easy. It is likely to fail it a couple of times before capture because of the bullets used for the attack though. DS 9-1 isn't horribly difficult (unless you are like me and didn't know about what the x button could do.) either and much more entertaining than 9-7.

Funny how we all are different.

It's "luck based" simply because we can't handle it yet. The bullets don't wall you at all and the attack varies so much that it can't be micro-memorized. The only "luck" that can be applied is if you're not good enough to consistently dodge it (isn't that true for all difficult attacks anyway?). The attack is tough and great for higher-tier players to test their skills on, but has such a low clear requirement that those of us who can't handle the massive speed and density of the bullets can just luck-trash their way through it and never touch it again. The game isn't filled with these extremely difficult to dodge cards anyway, so I think we can deal with one card that is genuinely too hard for us to pass legitimately (for now).

How boring would the game be if everything was piss easy or memorizable, anyway? Gotta have something to keep you on your toes.

Yeah. That's okay i guess. I remember i thought Apollo 13 was luckshit once too. Maybe one day i'll be able to handle this attack better. I just don't think that will happen any time soon because of Aya's speed. With a slower character i think it would be easier.

EDIT:

I tried the card again. Still one of the hardest scenes in the entire game. Harder than most Lunatic spellcards too. Its something that gets my blood boiling but those Photography games are meant to be harder than the normal games and you got all the attempts you'd ever want anyway so i shouldn't be complaining. I just don't understand how people who doesn't have a problem with this can think of VoWG as anything but a piece of cake as that card is slower and less dense.

[Bananamatic]

bright guest stars

bad spell or worst spell