Injustice in Gensokyo: Spell Card Rules

[Tengukami]

From PMiSS:

That there are no things superior to beauty and thought.

...

Do not attack without reason.
Reason becomes its own power.

I don't read Japanese, so I don't know if we are talking about "reason" in the sense of a causation, or "reason" as in rational thought. (For the curious, it's 意味の無い攻撃はしてはいけない。意味がそのまま力となる。)  Either way, the addition of "Reason becomes its own power" can be taken to mean that the better the reason, the stronger the power, i.e., you need a good reason.

Although the shrine maiden decided on these rules, the original draft is written on the same paper as the youkai's contract. Was there any youkai proposing these rules to the shrine maiden? I wonder who could have written them.

Who indeed? A human drafted the spell card rules. The same humans who regularly defy the "do not attack without reason" clause to virtually no consequence. They're rewarded instead. This is an injustice against youkai. A neutral third party is needed to put things right.

[Dizzy H. "Muffin" Muffin]

*looks over at UFO*

[Furienify]

Clearly the Moriya Shrine needs to serve as arbiter for this injustice.

[E-Nazrin]

fairies 4 lyf

Actually, they seem to be doing the "attack without reason" thing even worse than any of the others. No wonder.

And I don't think it says anywhere that you need a GOOD reason. "I didn't like her face" would stand up to "a reason." Just a bullshit one. And most of the examples we've seen were about finding/accusing/beating up people causing bigger problems in Gensokyo, or attacking the people doing it for territorial reasons (I'm pretty sure that was Mystia and Wriggle's reason(s)).

Also, it's April 2nd.

[orinrin]

Fairies don't attack without reason, they merely pull pranks without reason.


I guess danmaku falls under the category of pranks, eh?

[jigglyppuff8]

And I don't think it says anywhere that you need a GOOD reason. "I didn't like her face" would stand up to "a reason." Just a bullshit one.

I'm jealous of the light above ground.
I'm jealous of the gentle breezes.

I don't have anything against you, but
I can make up lots of reasons to attack you.

[Tengukami]

Hey, can you really blame her?

[Kinzo the Astro Curious]

I'm jealous of the light above ground.
I'm jealous of the gentle breezes.

I don't have anything against you, but
I can make up lots of reasons to attack you.

This is exactly what come to mind for me, I was going to post it if no one else did.
This thread... makes everything make sense. I had not tied these things together. Probably because I 'd forgot what the spell card rules were all about anyway. It doesn't generally seem to matter in fannon anyway  :V

[Toasty]

"I'm a human, and you're a youkai. Now prepare to be owned."

Universal reason used by the heroines. Except maybe when say, Rumia wants to eat them, or they need to fight yukari to get the border of the netherworld fixed, or to beat people up for crucial information on restoring gensyoko's climate, or to steal artifacts from mayohiga for luck, or to end the scarlet mist incident, or to end the imperishable night......

[Solais]

ITT Ammy becomes the Byakuren.

Dunno. The Spellcard rules make complete sense to me.

[Tengukami]

Of course youkai break the spell card rules, sometimes. And the humans sometimes have reason to attack. That's a given. But the rules are human-written, human-enforced, and are heavily biased towards humans - youkai who break these rules are defeated; humans are rewarded. No one should be above the rules.

[OkashiiKisei]

Of course youkai break the spell card rules, sometimes. And the humans sometimes have reason to attack. That's a given. But the rules are human-written, human-enforced, and are heavily biased towards humans - youkai who break these rules are defeated; humans are rewarded. No one should be above the rules.

I'm still waiting for a game where the big bad just says "Fuck your rules" and fights you for real.

[Solais]

Well, I still think this is good enough, because:

1. If they eat all the humans, they die.
2. If they defeat the shrine maiden, the border crumbles and they disappear because of Common Sense.
3. If they eat the humans, but the shrine maiden, she has enough power to kill off all the youkai, if not, see point 2.

So maybe it was human enforced, yes, but it was made to make a peaceful life for both sides. It may seem unfair, but if that's needed for peace and survival, then that's it. And they were made because the youkai became too powerful to contain, so it was made because of the survival of the humans.

[Kinzo the Astro Curious]

I'm still waiting for a game where the big bad just says "Fuck your rules" and fights you for real.

Closest you can get to that I suppose is StB where they actually use melee attacks far too often in the later stages lol.

Oh hey whats youmu doing just sitting still there I wonder whats gonna ha- *SPOON*

shit chens flying at me! *dodge* hah! Oh shit oh shit oh shit *SPOON*

oh hey its meiling oh shit shes gonna kick me! hah! missed! haha too slow for me F bullets! *guess what sfx*

god dammit I'm stuck with only melee stages to do now and I suck at them. That and the bookish historian ones and I'm, shit at those as well lol

[shadowbringer]

didn't Reimu lose in SSiB, because she was in the "incident causer" role?

And doesn't the spellcard rules say that if the one trying to solve the incident fails, she can try again? (until she eventually wins)

[OkashiiKisei]

Closest you can get to that I suppose is StB where they actually use melee attacks far too often in the later stages lol.

Oh hey whats youmu doing just sitting still there I wonder whats gonna ha- *SPOON*

shit chens flying at me! *dodge* hah! Oh shit oh shit oh shit *SPOON*

oh hey its meiling oh shit shes gonna kick me! hah! missed! haha too slow for me F bullets! *guess what sfx*

god dammit I'm stuck with only melee stages to do now and I suck at them. That and the bookish historian ones and I'm, shit at those as well lol

I meant more along the lines of characters actually using their unique ability to kill. Like Suika making the air density around the character increase, crushing them to a bloody pulp. Or Yukari gapping their internal organs out of their body. Or Flandre going 'kyu'.

[Tengukami]

And doesn't the spellcard rules say that if the one trying to solve the incident fails, she can try again? (until she eventually wins)

The Spell Card Rules don't appear to cover just how many times you can try again. What it does say is:

If all your named spells are defeated, you are defeated, regardless of your remaining strength. If victorious against a human, you may not kill them.

No mention if defeat is supposed to be final, so that gives a nice loophole for trying again.

[Dizzy H. "Muffin" Muffin]

My theory is that the system is somewhat self-enforcing.

People on both sides have a vested interest in the rules: nobody wants to be wiped out. People don't want to get killed, youkai don't want to accidentally the enitre world out from under themselves by killing the Shrine Maiden, and humans, um, don't want to go to the trouble (I maintain that youkai can be killed, it's just really hard).

So who enforces it? Everyone. If, to pick a completely random example, Parsee killed Rikako or vice-versa, human and youkai would come down on the perpetrator like a fuckton of rectangular building thingies, and they would be killed until they die and do not get back up again.

[E-Nazrin]

And this is why Gensokyo lives in anarchy.

Yet operates just fine~

[FinnKaenbyou]

Weren't the rules written right after Mystic Square? Maybe it was less to stop the youkai of Gensokyo and more to keep Makai's demons in check.

[Alfred F. Jones]

Weren't the rules written right after Mystic Square? Maybe it was less to stop the youkai of Gensokyo and more to keep Makai's demons in check.

Well, technically, spellcards themselves have been around in some rudimentary form since PoDD (the same way spellcards exist in PoFV), but there were no rules to enforce them 'till after MS, no. And considering what happened to Makai after that little incident, I can't blame them for writing up the spellcard rules to avoid further incidents like that.

[OkashiiKisei]

Weren't the rules written right after Mystic Square? Maybe it was less to stop the youkai of Gensokyo and more to keep Makai's demons in check.

And this is why I wonder if Shinki died at the end of Mystic Square. It didn't have a real ending that showed what happened to Shinki ;_;

Also, since that was back when youkai fought for real and Reimu was still weak, how the HELL could a normal miko defeat the freaking Demon Goddess?! This just seems so impossible that I think the danmaku rules have existed since game one. Atleast Mima was pretty weak, Konngara and Sariel got beaten by a direct attack from the Hakurei Orb, EES was just a machine, Yuuka was just playing around as always and Yumemi is a normal human. But Shinki is a Goddess and fought for real. Reimu couldn't possibly have won without the aid of a macguffin or the rules!

[shadowbringer]

The Spell Card Rules don't appear to cover just how many times you can try again. What it does say is:

No mention if defeat is supposed to be final, so that gives a nice loophole for trying again.

I think I've said that, because of what's written here

so, the youkai wanted battles, the miko agreed, and then there were incidents that had "no lasting effects". Like someone else said, elsewhere, Reimu's victories are made of players'.. suffering   (what I wanted to say, it's that this is a nice excuse to explain a shmup's gameplay. I liked it.)

[shadowbringer]

>> And this is why I wonder if Shinki died at the end of Mystic Square. It didn't have a real ending that showed what happened to Shinki ;_;

but Shinki

Spoiler:

appears in Reimu's good ending..

[OkashiiKisei]

>> And this is why I wonder if Shinki died at the end of Mystic Square. It didn't have a real ending that showed what happened to Shinki ;_;

but Shinki

Spoiler:

appears in Reimu's good ending..

Oh thank God, I couldn't find a video or a translation anywhere... Glad to know she's alright. :ohdear:

[Sen]

>You need a good reason to attack

>Marisa

[Dizzy H. "Muffin" Muffin]

>You need a good reason to attack

>Marisa

"She stole my ____" seems a good enough reason for me! -- oh, wait, you mean Marisa attacking someone else, never mind.

[Tengukami]

Marisa is definitely ... frank about her intentions.

[Seian Verian]

I'm still waiting for a game where the big bad just says "Fuck your rules" and fights you for real.

SPOILER: Reimu dies and it turns out that the border doesn't collapse, it was all a lie so that she could remain in power.

...I can wish, can't I?

[Slaves]

>You need a good reason to attack

>Marisa

"Bitch, get out of the way!" is a good enough reason.