Labyrinth of Touhou Discussion #3

[Pesco]

All the adjustable data is on the wiki you've got going. Give me the final set of what you want the stauff changed to and I'll get around to it.

Do note: Backup your other saves because it may bork your game.

[trancehime]

Can rebalancing spell card formulas be hacked, too? <-- disregard this

I just skimmed through this and I'm actually quite interested in helping the rebalancing process. I've played this game too much (ahem beating 30F boss 100 times :V) so >_>

[The Greatest Dog]

Alriiiiight. I beat the F5 boss after using poison and having Meiling tank her main attack with Minoriko (who was buffed with superspeed)...

I seriously don't know how much poison affected the fight, though. I'm pretty sure it's what allowed me to reduce the boss's HP after the KILL WHOEVER IS ON THE LEFT final phase began. Although Patchouli was the only one who managed to deal above 3000 damage, though I forgot about Marisa completely.

Oh, and she got paralyzed twice.   

[Esoterica]

15F boss is giving me loads of trouble; mostly due to the fact that the two elements she's resistant to happen to be the two I use the most.  I'm not really sure who I should use, or even what to try for a strategy (paralysis seemed to work the best, but

Spoiler:

Suwako

has a MYS element stun that does terrible damage, whereas her other single target attack can hit for 50k easy).

I've got every character except the last two pre-plus disc (and obviously 15F).

[RainfallYoshi]

Rebalance? I totally approve of this and will submit some suggestions!

Chen: Give her something to make up for her giant EVA stat that does nothing. Maybe make her DEF more average rather than making it paper.

Sakuya: I'm gonna agree with Garlyle here. Sakuya could use some better defensive stats, maybe even give her some better SP growth too.

Rumia: Poor Rumia. She has a lot of good things about her but she just can't perform any of those things very well. I'd say up her MAG a bit so that her MND piercing can actually be put to use. She could also probably use a small MND buff.

Wriggle: Can anyone decide if you're useful or not? I'd say give her more DEF since she is supposed to be an ATK based character, her main weakness is that she can't survive through much. Nobody really knows how effective PSN is either...

Iku: Buff that HP a bit since she is supposed to be one of the beefier mages in the game.

Sanae/Minoriko: She could use a boost to her HP and/or SP to make her a beefier alternative to Minoriko. Minoriko could keep her high MND growth and possibly get a small boost in her elemental affinities. This would make the choice between the two a bit more distinctive. Sanae would be beefier with more attack capabilities while Minoriko would have the better healing and defensive tank capabilities.

Nitori: Dear lord poor Nitori. She could use a small boost to all of her stats honestly. Emphasis on ATK and DEF since her spells pull from her pitiful ATK rating and she has a buff for her pitiful DEF. I could also see her having higher PAR resist.

Reisen: Give this poor bunny a MAG and SPD boost. Her capabilities as a debuffer go to waste because her stats are so pitiful.

My experience beyond these characters is rather limited so... yeah. Even still I might not have any idea what I'm talking about. I just know these people in particular could use a bit of balancing.

[The Greatest Dog]

I tried using Wriggle's super poison on the giant Pressure enemies on floor six. I know they have maybe 7000~ health and the wiki says they're susceptible to poison, but I'm assuming that the rate of poison damage is the same... Or maybe it's based on Wriggle's level, which is... 28 right now?

Wriggle poisoned the Pressure, 800~ damage.
Wriggle acts again, Unseasonable Butterfly Storm. 1400~ damage.
Chen uses a regular attack promptly after Wriggle. 700~ damage.
Pressure = dead.

So... I'm going to say that the poison did around 3500-4500 damage in the time that it takes for Wriggle to act again. So, yeah. I don't know how it works on other enemies, though, and if poison resistance affects the DPS.

(BTW, I stuffed 14 levels of HP into Wriggle, and she has at least 1200 HP. If people could raise her subpar defensive stats, she might be able to tank through a hit of random stuff.)

[チソウ タイゼン]

Did anybody else's patch come with instructions or something?

[Ghaleon]

I'm not going to really offer everything I think needs changing. But I think buffing Rumia's mag could result in some really op moonlight rays. I think upgrading her defenses would make her more attractive without making her op.

Sakuya is weak, but buffing her attack can result in the above like rumia. Her problem is her formulas have terrible atk - enemy def ratios. But the multiplier afterwards is high (killing doll I mean). which means that should you buff her attack to make killing doll a viable boss dpser, on targets with low def, she's going to rival Flan's starbrow break, or if you're simply over level.

In general I think there should be more options for tanks. China and

Spoiler:

Tenshi

are your only "real" choices for first slot tanks. Other characters can do it sometimes, but it's going to either be simply shooting yourself in the foot to do so, or it's an exceptional case like a boss who has no physical attacks, or one with defense ignoring attacks.

Chen is a pretty good character overall, despite her evasion being missing, I think buffing her would make her pretty op, which some people feel she is already.

I think most of the balance issues of the game lie in the formulas moreso than the base stats >=(. Aside from the tank issue that is.

Though...
being able to modify the formulas might not be an issue now that I think of it (dun dun dun)... to be continued....

[Earthsiege]

Been following this thread a while (stumbling on here by chance got me hooked on LoT  ) and I had a few ideas on rebalancing. I'll organize some of what  came up with into usable numbers.

[trancehime]

The main issue with Rumia is that NEET girl outclasses her in almost every way once you get her in terms of damage output. Making Rumia slightly more tanky might work, though, as it means keeping her around is less of a hassle, and perhaps, if possible, rework formulas. >_>

[Pesco]

I'm only doing the screwing around in Cheat Engine you know. I'm not good enough to go redoing the game all fancy.

[Ghaleon]

I'm only doing the screwing around in Cheat Engine you know. I'm not good enough to go redoing the game all fancy.

Well I wasn't planning on inflicting spell alterations on you unless you were willing to once I found out how (if I will, been busy with tpw to worry about this for the moment)

[Axel Ryman]

I'm only doing the screwing around in Cheat Engine you know. I'm not good enough to go redoing the game all fancy.

If you need help with that let me know. 

[MysTeariousYukari]

For character buffing, Chen needs slightly better ATK, she can fall behind good ATK growth chars like Remi quickly. Sakuya would need either a tad more ATK, or a good chunk more SP, and likely a bit more DEF/MND. Super-Tank could use a bit more HP or ATK.

Spoiler:

Sikieiki could stand to have a tad more DEF, I'm certain my Flandre has more DEF, with similar SKP Lvls.

Nitori definately needs more ATK and DEF, nothing major is needed in either, but it IS needed. HP Tank could stand to have either more ATK, or more DEF/MND, once again, not much is needed.

[Esoterica]

Quick question: In v2.06 how do you disable music/spell animations?

[MysTeariousYukari]

In the list of stuff from the 2.06 download, look for an exe or w/e called config. It's in their.

[Esoterica]

In the list of stuff from the 2.06 download, look for an exe or w/e called config. It's in their.

Wow, that's considerably more elaborate than I expected.

Thanks.

[MysTeariousYukari]

I love how it also has Sound test in it :V

[RainfallYoshi]

Has anyone considered doing some type of run with a single 4-girl team based on some kind of theme? Like Team 9 or Team SDM or something. I would if it wouldn't involve hella grinding, hella dungeon resets, and hella time. Also because I've still yet to actually complete the game once. Mmm.

[MysTeariousYukari]

Like Reimu, Marisa, Alice and

Spoiler:

Yuka

? That could work... maybe...

[Pesco]

4 girl team is impossible. You simply don't have enough answers to deal with the enemies. Rather do a run with none of the optionals.

Btw, when you do NG+ with all the chars available from the start, do you still need to recruit the ones required for story, e.g. Chen and Cirno?

[Ghaleon]

4 girl team is impossible. You simply don't have enough answers to deal with the enemies. Rather do a run with none of the optionals.

Btw, when you do NG+ with all the chars available from the start, do you still need to recruit the ones required for story, e.g. Chen and Cirno?

Don't know, it's fun to anyway for the boss fight though.

[trancehime]

4 girl team is impossible. You simply don't have enough answers to deal with the enemies. Rather do a run with none of the optionals.

It's possible.

Unrealistically possible, as I'd wager to have enough "answers" you'd need levels well over 7000. :s

[Xefury151]

is there any way you can change the fonts for this game? i cant stand looking at them.

where can i DL patch 2.06? not 2.06B

[Ghaleon]

is there any way you can change the fonts for this game? i cant stand looking at them.

where can i DL patch 2.06? not 2.06B

dunno bout the fonts but I'm pretty sure 2.06b is the only 2.06.

[KomeijiKoishi]

I guess that you can't hack the game so that Evasion works, huh? I mean, what causes EVA not to work anyway?

[Earthsiege]

I guess that you can't hack the game so that Evasion works, huh? I mean, what causes EVA not to work anyway?

Didn't the creators break the formula or something?

Personally I almost like knowing every single attack will hit. Makes it a bit easier to plan healing/nuking around.

[Ghaleon]

Bosses who charge up and 1shot nuke you at 20% health or whatever would be extra "fun" with evasion. Pretty sure the developers figured out it would be a dumb mechanic, especially due to the lack of a hit rating.

I think a better solution would to simply increase all defensive stats by a (very small) percentage based on evasion, both for the player and the enemies.

Also I was having a hard time sleeping last night, and decided to theorycraft in my head the optimum number of selfbuff+attacks for chen and Remi. Against a target with no defense, it's 1 buff, then 4 attacks, repeat. Naturally, the more defense the target has, the more rewarding it is to buff more often. I'll theorycraft that too some other time. unless you're pressed on SP, or something. It's pretty much always counterproductive to attack more than 4 times after each self buff for those characters though. I suspect other characters with similar attack-based self-buffs also benefit from a rotation lasting 5 turns or less.

Regarding changing spell formulas, looks like it wont be an option after all >=(.

[RainfallYoshi]

4 girl team is impossible. You simply don't have enough answers to deal with the enemies. Rather do a run with none of the optionals.

Btw, when you do NG+ with all the chars available from the start, do you still need to recruit the ones required for story, e.g. Chen and Cirno?

I dunno about version 2.06, but if you use Pesco's file for 2.04 the game will goof up and think you've already gotten everyone. I found this out on Floor 2 when I found the way to Floor 3 without having fought or recruited Cirno yet, but my Cirno popped up and just did her thing and let us cross.

[Serela]

Quick question: In v2.06 how do you disable music/spell animations?

This also breaks stuff, like side-effects of attacks. For example, 15F girl

Spoiler:

Flandre

's attacks all just turn into awesome nukes with no bad stuff, if you turn off Spell Animations.

Has anyone considered doing some type of run with a single 4-girl team based on some kind of theme? Like Team 9 or Team SDM or something. I would if it wouldn't involve hella grinding, hella dungeon resets, and hella time. Also because I've still yet to actually complete the game once. Mmm.

This would require insane grinding and wouldn't be anywhere near worth the trouble; seriously, in many cases you'd have to get to where at least one character is p.much invincible.

Doing a run using all the suckier characters (+Support characters like Reimu and a first slot tank) is viable, though; possibly within grinding levels that are actually realistically doable. I started doing it but I got to 2F and was bored (third playthrough already :V).