Labyrinth of Touhou Discussion #3

[チソウ タイゼン]

Some img.dxa and img2.dxa. I saw 2.04b in Japanese, but after trying the patch again, it's gone. I think. Now, I don't even get the logo and the title. Just music, a black screen, and after a few seconds,
                NEW GAME
        LOAD GAME
   QUIT

[Ghaleon]

Some img.dxa and img2.dxa. I saw 2.04b in Japanese, but after trying the patch again, it's gone. I think. Now, I don't even get the logo and the title. Just music, a black screen, and after a few seconds,
                NEW GAME
        LOAD GAME
   QUIT

I used to get that when I first started trying to play. I forget what the solution was. Something basic like get ___ font or run using applocale. The troubleshooting page on the wiki mentions it I think.

[Esoterica]

Shouldn't.  Well, I'll test it on Meiling just to be sure.

Okay, this works.  Thanks Baity. :V

Also, I discovered that bosses on the early floors have what is probably zero resistance to the instant death status ailment.  These have been some hilarious boss fights.

I used to get that when I first started trying to play. I forget what the solution was. Something basic like get ___ font or run using applocale. The troubleshooting page on the wiki mentions it I think.

This is what I had to roll back my drivers for.  It's apparently a problem with some Nvidia graphics cards.

...though, after rolling them back once I updated them again and it worked fine.  Not really sure what's up with that.

[Garlyle]

Some img.dxa and img2.dxa. I saw 2.04b in Japanese, but after trying the patch again, it's gone. I think. Now, I don't even get the logo and the title. Just music, a black screen, and after a few seconds,
                NEW GAME
        LOAD GAME
   QUIT

If this happens, check the path that Touhou Labyrinth is stored in.  If any of the folders have japanese characters in them, you need to rename them to not include them.  This doesn't affect everyone, but it's a common problem.

[チソウ タイゼン]

Nope.

..GREAT I BROKE THE JAPANESE COPY TOO.

Logo- Title- New Game- Black Screen- Freeze

[Ghaleon]

Nope.

..GREAT I BROKE THE JAPANESE COPY TOO.

Logo- Title- New Game- Black Screen- Freeze

That's a good thing, because all of the problems I could have think of should have occured regardless of the english patch.

Honestly I think the order of which you installed the game, plus disk, patches, or lack of applocales on all of the above, etc, etc is the most likely cause.. I generally have a hard time properly installing patches with these games myself because those weird Japanese patch programs seem kinda moody to me.

[チソウ タイゼン]

0.50 > 2.04 > ePat (Could not patch img.dxa/img2.dxa; source file too short: XD3_INTERNAL) > Run > Failure

What are applocales?

[Ghaleon]

0.50 > 2.04 > ePat (Could not patch img.dxa/img2.dxa; source file too short: XD3_INTERNAL) > Run > Failure

What are applocales?

Something every Touhou fan should know. It's possible to run many games without it, but good god does it make it so much easier to use it, check here for details:
http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=25.0

[AlexX Unlimited]

After having been away for a while I decided to pick this game back up again. Beat the F18 boss surprisingly easily (and I pretty much went from F16's boss to F18's boss with relatively little grind for the random mobs in-between).

I made it all the way to the final boss, but before I get into that there's something I want to know about one of the F19 minibosses. Specifically, regarding

Spoiler:

Cosmic, the one who uses Strengthening Jutsu and instakills a 100% MND-buffed Tenshi with Either Flare after it.

I was basically down to

Spoiler:

Rinnosuke, Orin, and Marisa, with Marisa in reserve

and won purely because I attempted (and succeeded) to beat the dude in a damage race. With a boss like that I'm confident there's some kind of trick to him, because the way I won was more or less me lucking out and him never using Either Flare despite spamming his self-buff. The fact this is highly annoying, yet nobody complained about him before in this or any of the earlier topics raises eyebrows. If he required luck like that in order to beat there'd be a lot more complaining about him than there is.

Regarding the final boss... Well, Reimu is level 124 and I almost won, so I know strategy is the issue more than anything. Here's what I have so far:

Spoiler:

Team:
Tenshi (tank)
Yukari (tank and barrier)
Meiling (Tank and status cure/minor healing)
Rinnosuke (Semi-tank and physical + composite nuker)
Reimu (healing + barrier)
Ran (team buffer)
Marisa (magic nuke)
Chen (physical spam)
Patchouli (magical nuke)
Orin (physical and composite nuker)
Sanae (healer, buffer, and status restore)
Nirori (physical nuke)

My general strategy was opening with Tenshi-Yukari-Reimu-Ran, with Reimu and Yukari bringing buffs to full and Ran buffing the attack of everyone in reserve. Once I got a decent amount of offense on I started bringing out my attackers and single-targetted the final boss until she called out the first bit. I remembred reading that the bits can't die until they're all out, so I then focused on multi-attacks to just force the other two out. Once they were all out I focused on multi-hitting them all to wear them all down somewhat evenly to try and kill them all at once like I had done with the F12 boss fight. Left one died first and the right one used Scurge to kill Tenshi. I then focused my fire on it and it went down. The top one and final boss then began spamming Destroy Magic and Djinn Storm every other turn, rendering victory impossible.

Since leaving the top bit last is obviously a bad idea, which one would be better to go after last? Or was my "weaken them all together" strategy reliable? And what should I watch out for once they're all gone?

Oh, and before I forget... I missed someone. Specifically,

Spoiler:

Suika, because I did not find all of the shards. However, rechecking all the floors I seriously cannot find any that I missed. I must be missing something, but I can't tell which... Is there a way to tell which one is missing so I know which to look for?

Obviously this isn't the most pressing matter right now, but since I want to access the plus disk I'll need to get her eventually.

[Ghaleon]

I've qq'd about cosmic plenty of times, and called it the most luck-based fight in the game. Of course you can use strategy by equipping everyone with mad MYS resist, and using only high-mnd people. Might even help to have someone like patchy at the very front instead of the rear (she makes a great mnd tank after all). But In any case, it's still heavily luck dependent on how much it decides to cast ether flare after a magic jitsu.

Leaving the top alive for the final boss isn't actually as bad a strategy as you may think. Because after all 3 are dead the boss is perfectly capable of casting destroy magic and djinn storm too >=P. In any case I kill it first because I hate hazard toxin. Then I kill the right one, then left last. Getting all 3 down safely isn't really very challenging compared to the entire fight IMO though. But it's possible the boss is easy afterwards if it doesn't buff itself often enough and/or doesn't use big nasty spells like djinn storm or hyperdimensional flying object (kinda like cosmic's ether flare. Not too terrible by itself, but after that buff, good lord, kiss at least 2 people goodbye).

There is no easy way to find lost events that I know of, sorry. Did you find the secret "floor" that has the 2nd bloodstained seal boss on floor 5/6/7 (I forget the exact floor) though?

[AlexX Unlimited]

I've qq'd about cosmic plenty of times, and called it the most luck-based fight in the game. Of course you can use strategy by equipping everyone with mad MYS resist, and using only high-mnd people. Might even help to have someone like patchy at the very front instead of the rear (she makes a great mnd tank after all). But In any case, it's still heavily luck dependent on how much it decides to cast ether flare after a magic jitsu.

And here I thought he was highly vulnerable to DTH or something and I just never noticed due to my lack of statuse inflicting. >:

Leaving the top alive for the final boss isn't actually as bad a strategy as you may think. Because after all 3 are dead the boss is perfectly capable of casting destroy magic and djinn storm too >=P.

Yeah, but when the remaining two alternate between those exact two skills with very few legitimate attacks it's kinda impossible for me to do anything about it... Sure, they aren't doing legit damage that often, but they don't have to since my buffs quickly start to run low and I lack any way to recast them...

There is no easy way to find lost events that I know of, sorry. Did you find the secret "floor" that has the 2nd bloodstained seal boss on floor 5/6/7 (I forget the exact floor) though?

I haven't looked at any bloodstained seal bosses, yet. Would it be a good idea to do so in preparation for the final boss? I know at least the first one has a reccomended level below the final boss's reccomended level (though I'm a tad below that as it is...), but I'm not sure about anything past that.

[Ghaleon]

I never bothered to check out the bloodstained seal bosses until after the final boss. But the location of the second one is in an area that is kind of out of the way. I'm wondering if you even found that area. Because if you haven't, rather than asking for helping finding "I don't know which one of the events related to ____" you can simply look for "bloodstained boss 2" >=).

Assuming there is even a shard there, I honestly don't remember, I know there was some kind of event related to a joinable character there, just not sure if it was the one you need.

There might also be one in that stupid "binary" teleport floor, make sure you use the wiki to see if you explored it all. Also on floor 7, make sure you found all the island thingies there. I seem to recall the 4 in the middle, and the bottom right rectangle-headed cross thing were the hardest to find.

[Thata no Guykoro]

The area with seal number 2 has a frozen frog, not a jar shard.

[Garlyle]

The area with seal number 2 has a frozen frog, not a jar shard.

You sure?  I remember it being a jar shard.

Basically, there was a bunch of switches you should have found while exploring F5 & F6, I think it was; if you tripped them all, a formerly dead-end teleporter sequence on F5 will lead you to a staircase that takes you to the center of F6.  There's stuff there.  If not...
Shards are on 3F, 6F, 7F, 9F, 11F, 12F
She herself is on 14F.  Try going and talking to her twice regardless, before searching for the shards.  You might be surprised - she won't join you the first time you talk to her even if you already got all of the shards, but if you talk to her again after that, she'll join.

Also yes, you should definitely be able to take down the first Bloodstained Seal boss before the final boss.

[Esoterica]

I shouldn't have tried a new game+ before completing the actual game.  Certain characters (specifically from floors 15, 16, 20, and 21) are making me wish I could have them on my current save file with their unbridled awesomeness.

Then again, I'm on floor 15 on that, so I'm almost there.

Which reminds me...is there a way to get

Spoiler:

Eirin

and

Spoiler:

Yuyuko

caught  up in level with the rest of the team?  They're a good 10-13 levels behind and it completely destroys their usability.

[LHCling]

Unfortunately, that's the way things are; they're only going to get further and further behind because they actually take quite a lot more experience to level up when compared to most characters. So unless you want to put all your other characters into reserve (which in terms of time is very counter-productive) you'll just have to make do with the lower levels. Their generally higher attributes should make up for most of the differences though.

[Esoterica]

Unfortunately, that's the way things are; they're only going to get further and further behind because they actually take quite a lot more experience to level up when compared to most characters. So unless you want to put all your other characters into reserve (which in terms of time is very counter-productive) you'll just have to make do with the lower levels. Their generally higher attributes should make up for most of the differences though.

Unfortunately, that's what I was afraid of.  They're a whole 1000-1500 MAG behind the other nukers, so unless their growths are considerably better than I expect I have a feeling I'm going to remain disappointed.

[Pesco]

And that's what we call balance

[AlexX Unlimited]

Basically, there was a bunch of switches you should have found while exploring F5 & F6, I think it was; if you tripped them all, a formerly dead-end teleporter sequence on F5 will lead you to a staircase that takes you to the center of F6.  There's stuff there.

Never knew there was a center area in F6. I guess I'll have to take a closer look, then...

Shards are on 3F, 6F, 7F, 9F, 11F, 12F
She herself is on 14F.  Try going and talking to her twice regardless, before searching for the shards.  You might be surprised - she won't join you the first time you talk to her even if you already got all of the shards, but if you talk to her again after that, she'll join.

Er, I'm not new to this game. I'm well-aware of where the shards are and what she takes in order to join. My confusion was around the fact I couldn't locate that last shard despite none of the maps having any extra event markers... I didn't know F6 had an area in the center though, so I guess I now know where my next goal is.


And I guess while we're here.... Anyone else notice youtube videos of this game tend to have weird party setups? I notice a lot of videos have people like Remilia and Sakuya in the last two rows with people like Chen and Patchouli in the first two. It gets less common for the later boss fights, but this frequently occurs as far into the game as the F12 boss fight. I also find it kinda amusing people here keep talking about how crap characters like Sakuya and Youmu are, but plenty of videos involving the plus disk (usually involving V2/3 bosses) usually have them on the team.

[Esoterica]

And I guess while we're here.... Anyone else notice youtube videos of this game tend to have weird party setups? I notice a lot of videos have people like Remilia and Sakuya in the last two rows with people like Chen and Patchouli in the first two. It gets less common for the later boss fights, but this frequently occurs as far into the game as the F12 boss fight. I also find it kinda amusing people here keep talking about how crap characters like Sakuya and Youmu are, but plenty of videos involving the plus disk (usually involving V2/3 bosses) usually have them on the team.

I haven't seen anything that extreme, but almost every time someone switches a party member in a Youtube vid I can't help but think "Wait, why the hell are they putting her there!?" (i.e. Minoriko in slot 2 against a boss with fire/ice attacks that frequently hit the first two slots).

I'm thinking I'll have to be the guy that tries to use Chen,

Spoiler:

Rin

, Sakuya, and

Spoiler:

Keine

and tries to spam Flight of Itaden and

Spoiler:

Cat Walk

with 100% attack and speed buffs, because I'm honestly disappointed I haven't seen that lineup yet. :V

[Ghaleon]

I haven't seen anything that extreme, but almost every time someone switches a party member in a Youtube vid I can't help but think "Wait, why the hell are they putting her there!?" (i.e. Minoriko in slot 2 against a boss with fire/ice attacks that frequently hit the first two slots).

I'm thinking I'll have to be the guy that tries to use Chen,

Spoiler:

Rin

, Sakuya, and

Spoiler:

Keine

and tries to spam Flight of Itaden and

Spoiler:

Cat Walk

with 100% attack and speed buffs, because I'm honestly disappointed I haven't seen that lineup yet. :V

Aya is a better speed buffer than sakuya, even for buffing the whole party. aya can buff all 4 slots with her single cast (and spend less sp doing so) in the time sakuya can use lunar clock. In addition, when you switch someone out, aya only has to buff that one person, Sakuya has to do the entire party buff again .=P.

Orin's cat walk is bad, like.. really bad, even when fully buffed it's only about as good as chen's unbuffed. As for chen, not exactly a good combo with keine, because chen can buff herself better than keine can buff her.

Play whatever team you like for fun, I'm just saying that the reason why you haven't seen that lineup isn't really because "nobody thought about it" as much as it being kinda counter-productive in general.

As for your earlier comments regarding

Spoiler:

Yuyu and Eirin

. The former has good mnd growth regardless of level, but a nuker she is not. Her spells and her mag growth are intentionally gimp IMO because of the death effects, and delay effects (which are completely unique to her btw). I personally am using her on my 2nd playthru, and I was hoping that despite her mediocre mag growth (and her bad level growth), that her final spell would own due to its AMAZING spell formula (seriously, it's almost master spark good). But as it turns out, it's really only about equally powerful as other particularly strong nukes, which isn't really good enough since it costs a FREAKIN ARM AND LEG.

The second character is even worse at nuking. However she has a heal, and she has excellent tanking stats. Don't really use her as a nuker, or a healer (her heal is just too slow to rely on as a steady form of recovery), use her as a secondary tank IMO (slot 2 tank, you can try 1 I guess but that might be pretty risky). I personally like to use Remi as a slot two tank, but sometimes I need to switch her out, so then you know who might be a good temporary replacement.

[Esoterica]

Aya is a better speed buffer than sakuya, even for buffing the whole party. aya can buff all 4 slots with her single cast (and spend less sp doing so) in the time sakuya can use lunar clock. In addition, when you switch someone out, aya only has to buff that one person, Sakuya has to do the entire party buff again .=P.

Orin's cat walk is bad, like.. really bad, even when fully buffed it's only about as good as chen's unbuffed. As for chen, not exactly a good combo with keine, because chen can buff herself better than keine can buff her.

In case you weren't aware, that was purely in jest.

[Ghaleon]

In case you weren't aware, that was purely in jest.

....Ok so I reread that and I have to state that you should have added a DUH >=P.
sorry I'm really absent minded atm.

[Esoterica]

....Ok so I reread that and I have to state that you should have added a DUH >=P.
sorry I'm really absent minded atm.

It's fine, lol.

I wonder how well

Spoiler:

Flandre

and Minoriko can tank against Cirno.[/s]

More seriously, is it recommended to use the 18F character?  The stats look good, until you look at status resistance, TP, SP recovery, and leveling speed.

[MysTeariousYukari]

More seriously, is it recommended to use the 18F character?  The stats look good, until you look at status resistance, TP, SP recovery, and leveling speed.

I highly reccomend it, 18F has a Super-Buff that is absolutly beautiful. Status Resist isn't going to get 18F killed with proper equips, the TP can be fixed through Skill Points and SP Recovery... SP shouldn't be much of a problem to begin with. Leveling Speed is a rather minor downside. Reimu Lv 140, 18F Lv 129-133(somewhere around that), so it's not all that bad. A Destiny Stone and a Star of Elendil can cover up those downsides rather well.

[Ghaleon]

That character is automatically bad because of cooties.

Seriously though, the poor level growth wont diminish how amazing their tanking stats are, but it does limit their nuking potential to just decent. The buff is obviously amazing, but I personally don't like its side affect at all, but even still it's a good move for those focus/enrage/whatever type bosses (which there are a lot of from now on).

[Pesco]

Who wants to do a rebalanced NG+? All character's base stats and level up ratings can be hacked. The only thing I can't change is their spell costs and sprites. If someone can give me the figures, I'll do all the editing (when I have time).

[Garlyle]

Who wants to do a rebalanced NG+? All character's base stats and level up ratings can be hacked. The only thing I can't change is their spell costs and sprites. If someone can give me the figures, I'll do all the editing (when I have time).

...Rebalanced?

...This is an interesting suggestion.  I kind of have to wonder what kinds of changes would be necessary to balance things out, or what things aren't balanced already.

I assume you can't hack a spell's damage formula either of course.  It's all just their base stats and level up speeds?

[Pesco]

I can adjust their:

base stats, resistances and affinities
recovery rate
level up rating for the char and their stats
upgrade rating for stat, resistance and affinity purchases

You can turn Chen into a Meiling character while keeping her spell set basically.

[Garlyle]

Really?  Wow.  I thought most of that data would've stayed in the stable data as opposed to being present in the save files @_@

I'll have to think about this.  Just off the top of my head, for major changes...

Sakuya vs Aya: Give Sakuya better defensive stats and SPD (so she can nearly match Aya even when they're both buffed) but keep her ATK low; meanwhile, drop Aya's defensive stats a bit but raise her ATK a tiny bit.  Separates them a bit more in use.

Minoriko vs Sanae: Boost Minoriko's MND and affinities a bit, but give Sanae better physical tanking abilities and weaker MND, to help separate them a bit more.  Possibly increase Sanae's SPD a bit.

Rumia: Is there any way to even make her more useful in general without making Moonlight Ray broken as hell?  That's a damn good damage formula for a 32 MP spell afterall.  Or maybe -do- make her MAG higher so that she's powerful enough to be worth using!?

Wriggle: Boost her HP/DEF so that she can survive out on the field for a long time, and she can make a good off-tank.  Iku could subscribe to this too by boosting HP and MND.  That way, Iku could function well as an anti-mage, dropping their already low defenses.

Nitori: Boost her DEF/MND so that her Optical Camoflauge becomes a good self-buff, and ATK for Megawatt?

Reisen: She needs a MAG and Level Up Speed boost.  Possibly better ailment resistances.  Something needs to change here.  Maybe a much better speed, and let her become a speedy Debuffer?

Tenshi: I'd like to see her HP drop even a bit lower, but in return, gain actual attack power.  As is, yes, she can tank like a beast, but she can't even do anything once she's out there being immortal.


But, yeah.  I think for creating something more balanced, it's more that the bad/lesser characters need to become able to match up to the more powerful ones in some way.  Because dropping the strength of the more powerful ones would be... oww.