Labyrinth of Touhou Discussion #3

[MysTeariousYukari]

Spoiler:

Giga Flare

Ignores MND, so having a 80%+ MND Buff won't help against it.

[yoshicookiezeus]

Spoiler:

Utsuho

recruited! Taking out Reimu with a 30% buffed

Spoiler:

Giga Flare

wasn't very nice of her, but at that point she had so little HP left that a

Spoiler:

World-Shaking Military Rule + Hourai Barrage combo

was enough to finish her off. And I found out the hard way that she does have one physical attack when she suddenly decided to use Slash Dive on Patchy, who had been sitting in the third slot taking zero damage up to that point.

I guess this means that all that's left to do at this point is grinding. What would be the recommended level for the first of the 30F bosses? I just tried fighting it, and its attacks aren't instant KOs, so I suppose that is a good sign...

[Garlyle]

Spoiler:

Utsuho

recruited! Taking out Reimu with a 30% buffed

Spoiler:

Giga Flare

wasn't very nice of her, but at that point she had so little HP left that a

Spoiler:

World-Shaking Military Rule + Hourai Barrage combo

was enough to finish her off. And I found out the hard way that she does have one physical attack when she suddenly decided to use Slash Dive on Patchy, who had been sitting in the third slot taking zero damage up to that point.

I guess this means that all that's left to do at this point is grinding. What would be the recommended level for the first of the 30F bosses? I just tried fighting it, and its attacks aren't instant KOs, so I suppose that is a good sign...

For the 30F bosses, the level recommendation curve goes... either 300 -> 400 -> 600, or 400 -> 450 -> 600.  I forget which.  Might be a combination.  Either way, grinding for 30F sucks.  There's a pretty general agreement about this from everyone.

[Ghaleon]

Spoiler:

Utsuho

recruited! Taking out Reimu with a 30% buffed

Spoiler:

Giga Flare

wasn't very nice of her, but at that point she had so little HP left that a

Spoiler:

World-Shaking Military Rule + Hourai Barrage combo

was enough to finish her off. And I found out the hard way that she does have one physical attack when she suddenly decided to use Slash Dive on Patchy, who had been sitting in the third slot taking zero damage up to that point.

I guess this means that all that's left to do at this point is grinding. What would be the recommended level for the first of the 30F bosses? I just tried fighting it, and its attacks aren't instant KOs, so I suppose that is a good sign...

Yeah, you never saw slash dive? hax, I don't remember anybody saying she has no physical attacks.

What gar-gar said about 30F, I forget too, I think the first dude was 300-350.

As for not being insta-ko'd. that boss has 3 phases. The first is pretty simple (easier than some of the trash on that floor). The 2nd is much worse, and the last is worse but...not as big a jump as the 2nd from the first. The last does has this nasty habit of giving you status ailments and stat debuffs even when you have over 100% resistance. Blah. Boss learns needle parade by phase 2 (the phases are basically 2/3-33 hp, 1/3-2/3, 0-1/3), and forgets it at phase 3. So use up people like patchy and kaggy during phase 1, and hide at phase 2, then use em at 3 again. I generally have to hide them before phase 2 because the ##@%ing boss *ALWAYS* opens with needle parade on its first move on phase 2 for me, so cheap.

Phase changes are fairly obvious because despite not changing graphics or whatever, you'll notice the 2 warmup spells before each big spell suddenly changes. It's a pretty fun boss though IMO. I didn't cheat until after I reached and beat that boss. I think it's a pretty good (and reasonable) goal that feels good to beat.

[Rikter]

Floor 14 and 15 have very frustrating Randoms that manage kill off my team...

And I can't beat the bosses on those floors due to said Randoms... Anyone have advice?

[Garlyle]

Floor 14 and 15 have very frustrating Randoms that manage kill off my team...

And I can't beat the bosses on those floors due to said Randoms... Anyone have advice?

At about floor 14 or 15 is when you'll start to run into enemy encounters that it's actually better to run from once in a while.

However, you should still be trying to fight through stuff.  Learn what works against what and don't be afraid to experiment a bit; enemies that seem to have extra-high defenses can usually be cut down by attacks with enough power or defense-piercing qualities, usually have weak elements, and in particular have low HP - or are very vulneurable to instant death.

And be ready to start grinding a little.  Just take it little chunk by little chunk, pushing deeper and deeper and retreating whenever you end up in danger.

[Ghaleon]

Floor 14 and 15 have very frustrating Randoms that manage kill off my team...

And I can't beat the bosses on those floors due to said Randoms... Anyone have advice?

After the triple boss, all the floors tend to have pretty nasty trash. Just enjoy the challenge and push on. Trash, unlike bosses, tend to become easy after a little bit of grinding really fast. I mean you don't have to grind just to handle the trash, but explore the map, lose some dudes, go back to town, level up, etc, etc. By the time you're done the floor they tend to be less bad. Some tend to stay pretty ridiculous though, helbelmares come to mind.

For floors 14 and 15 specifically. I'm willing to rekon that you're having grief with bronze golems and black enmels. Neither really require a strategy other than OMGOMGNUKE IT NUKE IT NOW pretty much. Neither have any elemental weaknesses either, and both are immune to paralize. Joy.

Marisa's astroid belt should do decently against the black enmels (yes, astroid belt, it pierces high mnd targets better than her other spells excluding master spark), you might also have luck with Patchy's silent selene, Princess undine wont be any better for them, so don't use it. Rumia's dark side of the moon will work WONDERS, use that if you use her. I remember on my first playthru I just had to run away because everyone that I was using couldn't do better than 0.

Bronze golems are simpler, they don't have crazy defense, just high hp. So focus fire on them and paralize the other enemies if need be. They are not immune to debuffs, so you can also try that if you really have no chance.

Enjoy the next floor though, helbelmares are like blackenmels with 5X more hp, and cast the same spells, only MUCH stronger.

I seem to recall the trash after floor 16 stays relatively difficult compared to most JRPGS, but wont have any super nasty enemies in particular.

[Rikter]

So in other words just barely kill things and continue Grinding...

Great.

[Ghaleon]

So in other words just barely kill things and continue Grinding...

Great.

Hey, if you want a game where you can steamroll trash all the time there are thousands of others >=P

[MysTeariousYukari]

The Bronze Golems or w/e on 14F/15F are the big things to run from. Go a head and try to kill one, but give it NO mercy. Master Spark usage is fine, I actually reccomend it. Chances are you will barely kill one before it gets a turn and kills someone in a single Attack, no not Slash Dive or anything like that, just a simple Attack from it and someone is dead. 10F Super Tank MIGHT bu able to take 1 hit without dying, or the HP Tank might survive, but only those two have any chance at first.

[Esoterica]

So in other words just barely kill things and continue Grinding...

Great.

I'm on floor 12 right now and haven't had to grind at all beyond doing a single run around floor 9 before fighting Suwako.  Honestly by the sounds of it there isn't any real grind to this until you get to the plus disc.

[Ghaleon]

I'm on floor 12 right now and haven't had to grind at all beyond doing a single run around floor 9 before fighting Suwako.  Honestly by the sounds of it there isn't any real grind to this until you get to the plus disc.

I don't think he means level grind. Trust me, trash difficulty after the floor 12 boss is much worse. Floor 13 trash is actually fairly tame minus these stupid swordfish which go first and like OHKOing people, floor 14 bronze golems tend to not @%#@#%ing die, and OHKO people, and floor 15 has these things which tend to not @%@#%%ing take more than 0 damage and 2hko everyone at once, etc. Kinda like those annoying shadowcat thingies on floor 2 which often go first and paralize everyone, those suck.

[Esoterica]

I don't think he means level grind. Trust me, trash difficulty after the floor 12 boss is much worse. Floor 13 trash is actually fairly tame minus these stupid swordfish which go first and like OHKOing people, floor 14 bronze golems tend to not @%#@#%ing die, and OHKO people, and floor 15 has these things which tend to not @%@#%%ing take more than 0 damage and 2hko everyone at once, etc. Kinda like those annoying shadowcat thingies on floor 2 which often go first and paralize everyone, those suck.

That's what I get for trying to be an optimist for once.

[Rikter]

I'm on floor 12 right now and haven't had to grind at all beyond doing a single run around floor 9 before fighting Suwako.  Honestly by the sounds of it there isn't any real grind to this until you get to the plus disc.

Just wait till the 12F Bosses.

[Ghaleon]

Just wait till the 12F Bosses.

I actually  never found them to be very difficult. Especially if it's you rfirst time playing and you no doubt get lost trying to figure out how to GET to them >=P

[Garlyle]

I actually  never found them to be very difficult. Especially if it's you rfirst time playing and you no doubt get lost trying to figure out how to GET to them >=P

This.  For the most part, I was able to clear the game up to the point at which I met the 18F boss without deliberately grinding for more than a few minutes.  This is largely because I searched through every floor manually and made sure I didn't miss anything as opposed to using the maps, so I accumulated a fair share of EXP in the first place.

The 18F boss is just a wall regardless though, especially if you do skip 17F on the way (Since you pretty much can)

[Thata no Guykoro]

So, erm, what do the various events having to do with "finding a switch that doesn't seem to make anything happen" on 3F and 4F actually do?

[Ghaleon]

So, erm, what do the various events having to do with "finding a switch that doesn't seem to make anything happen" on 3F and 4F actually do?

You know, I always wonder that myself, then forget about them later. But yeah, I don't know.

[Esoterica]

Any tips for the 12F boss fight?  Should I target a specific character, or just go for multi-target spells?

[Ghaleon]

Any tips for the 12F boss fight?  Should I target a specific character, or just go for multi-target spells?

You wanna kill left person and top person as close to the same time as possible, be aware left person has 120000 hp, and left person has 240000hp. I personally don't count how many each has personally, I just try and keep the damage between the two even thru the whole fight. The right one is annoying with her debuffs and such. Most people just keep her paralize-locked and deal with the other two, I decided to just kill her first. I could have sworn she never got paralized before but on my 2nd playthru it seemed to work just fine.

Don't rely on debuffing them (other than paralize) too much though because once you get a certain amount, the top one casts a big buff spell you really want to avoid.

Did you get the optional/joinable on 12F? You should, and you'll get some exp while you do to make that fight easier as well. Also by this time you should be able to get the 8F joinable relatively easily now if you haven't yet already (just make sure you don't have anybody weak to fire during the opener).

[Esoterica]

You wanna kill left person and top person as close to the same time as possible, be aware left person has 120000 hp, and left person has 240000hp. I personally don't count how many each has personally, I just try and keep the damage between the two even thru the whole fight. The right one is annoying with her debuffs and such. Most people just keep her paralize-locked and deal with the other two, I decided to just kill her first. I could have sworn she never got paralized before but on my 2nd playthru it seemed to work just fine.

Don't rely on debuffing them (other than paralize) too much though because once you get a certain amount, the top one casts a big buff spell you really want to avoid.

Did you get the optional/joinable on 12F? You should, and you'll get some exp while you do to make that fight easier as well. Also by this time you should be able to get the 8F joinable relatively easily now if you haven't yet already (just make sure you don't have anybody weak to fire during the opener).

I've got everyone available up to this point, I was mostly just curious about what order to take them out.

Would

Spoiler:

Rumia

be a good option to remove debuffs as well as provide minor healing/decent damage as opposed to praying for paralysis to keep taking hold on the right boss?

[LHCling]

Most people just keep her paralize-locked and deal with the other two, I decided to just kill her first. I could have sworn she never got paralized before but on my 2nd playthru it seemed to work just fine.

Paralyzing Right-y is good. Better yet, use multi-targets, and get the occasional hit on one of the other two. Though, keep in mind that Cirno is for starters, pretty fragile, and Reimu taking up this role might also be SP-intensive on her, so you might not have enough for rebuffing / healing. That is, if you use her for the purposes given  :V

For the record, I take out Right-y first.

Don't rely on debuffing them (other than paralize) too much though because once you get a certain amount, the top one casts a big buff spell you really want to avoid.

This. Though, I did start using Wriggle's Poison as a means of doing DoT to stall for SP recovery / rebuffing; the damage per SP ratio is actually pretty good. Seeing Left-y constantly healing (read: every 2 turns) because of Poison actually puts a smile to my face.

Did you get the optional/joinable on 12F? You should, and you'll get some exp while you do to make that fight easier as well. Also by this time you should be able to get the 8F joinable relatively easily now if you haven't yet already (just make sure you don't have anybody weak to fire during the opener).

who what i don't recall any 12f what is this nonsense i think you're referring to 10f
Lastly, all the attacks target your MND, save for one attack (and

Spoiler:

the other two but I think that when any of those are used then you're screwed anyway

I think). This attack... is

Spoiler:

Galaxy in a Pot

.

Cut:

Spoiler:

Rumia

is unfortunately, only decent for that battle. If you've been investing into her, then I would guess she could substitute as a secondary all-healer. I wouldn't even bother with trying to use her to deal damage for this battle; Right-y is resistant to MYS for one, and you're probably better off using one-shots / physical-based for the others. Though, if you have nothing left to do, you might as well chip some HP while you wait for SP recovery for your other members.

[/Anecdote of my 2nd playthrough]

[Rikter]

I beat the one on left First with Patchy Spamming Royal Flare and Alice Spamming Return Innatimateness she's weak to Fire based Damage. Righty is only a threat if she can debuff you. Middle should be Nuked as soon as Lefty goes down so you can avoid the Barrage.

[Thata no Guykoro]

You know, I always wonder that myself, then forget about them later. But yeah, I don't know.

Ah. It seems like the switches on 3F, 4F, and 6F activate a couple of teleporters on 5F, allowing you to reach new areas of 6F. Yay?

[Esoterica]

Ah. It seems like the switches on 3F, 4F, and 6F activate a couple of teleporters on 5F, allowing you to reach new areas of 6F. Yay?

Oh, I know where that is.  That goes to the Bloodstained Seal boss on that floor.

[Thata no Guykoro]

Currently up to Floor 7, and stuck on the boss there. Any advice? I've got the first 2 pages of characters recruited, so that's a choice. The problem is the boss starts spamming the multi-target attack later in the battle and I keep getting hit with it before having restored enough HP to survive it. :\

[Ghaleon]

Rumia for floor 12 boss is probably not particularly useful. The right most enemy debuffs ALL THE TIME when not paralized, so spamming demarcation every time you get debuffed will just make you go oom really fast. Plus it wont offset the damage dealt with its pathetic heal.

As for floor 7 boss...I don't even remember what it is, is it one of those no-name (non-touhou) bosses? They shouldn't be owning you with multi-attacks unless it's ether flare (Which always seems to be the most powerful generic multi-attack, that and overgrowth). If you're having trouble with such a boss chances are you're focusing too much on offensive stats and are neglecting your mnd/def. It's tough to say though, I've never recalled anybody having trouble with floor 7 before.

Edit:
OH DERP, I know the boss, was mistaking floor 7 with 6.
That boss...If you can survive the very first attack (its biggest multi-attack), you really shouldn't have any problems, because after the first attack you should provide yourself with some defensive buffs and such (use hakkurei barrier and such, yeah it eats up sp like mad, but it's worth it, and even if you just have 10% left before the next big nuke, it will go a long way towards helping you survive it due to the add/subtract nature of stats in this game).

Pour some sp into fire affinity too if you haven't already, probably 5 ranks is more than enough, but definately don't let it sit at 1 still.

[MysTeariousYukari]

7F...

Spoiler:

Tams Foe, right?

As you could see, it loves Flowing Hellfire later in, so this is a simple part to get around(Simple does NOT mean easy), boost your MND and FIR Affinty by a good amount each. Try 150+ for FIR Affinity, or maybe even 200+, Flowing Hellfire will be pathetic then in comparison to how it is now.

[Thata no Guykoro]

Alright, I suppose I'll do some level grinding. >.>

[MysTeariousYukari]

To be honest, 150 FIR Affinty should be fine for quite a while. You have seen first hand what it that boss can do, so you know when you stand a good chance. That boss is one of the first roadblocks that makes you actually struggle.