Author Topic: Touhou RAGE Thread (Read 176807 times)

c l e a r · « **Reply #960 on:** August 12, 2009, 12:16:38 AM »

Well, I'm also using Marisa, cause I like the death walls that they make, but it seems like a bad choice against the AI. I'll try to use Reimu or something next. The AI seems to like to run into random bullets or homing shots from the replays that I got.

Oh, and I would play it, I just want that slut to sit down and shut up, really.

?q · « **Reply #961 on:** August 12, 2009, 01:20:14 AM »

Marisa's not a bad choice against the AI, but Reimu is better. The AI will get trapped by the homing amulets and occasionally the giant yin-yangs with refreshing frequency, whereas Marisa's main offense is in her lasers, which... are okay, but not especially effective against the AI. The problem with Reimu is that some of her reflected bullets will move quickly, a problem 100%-slow-bullet Marisa doesn't have.

Also, your top priority during Aya's boss phases is to watch for her retardedly rapid random red spam - easily her most dangerous attack.

One other thing to add to Krim's summary. Sikieiki's Lv. 2 attack is almost entirely made of bullets that you can turn against Sikieiki. Except AI Sikieiki will be much better at turning them back again to your screen. Plus the vorteces. Plus the boss attacks and whatever else.
In other words, if you see Sikieiki use a Lv. 2, try not to reflect many of those bullets back unless you want to rachet the stakes up really quickly.

(To contrast, this is exactly what you want to happen in Extra. That's why Siki's Extra is amazing.)

c l e a r · « **Reply #962 on:** August 12, 2009, 01:25:17 AM »

Funny thing is, I just tried to use Reimu 3 times and practice mode and I lost all of them.

Then, I tried Youmu instead because I hear she is really defensive. And it worked... somewhat, if I would just learn to let go of focus at tense moments, I would be more safe, since those spirit balls tend to get me because the absorb area is too huge.

Random red spams... too many to count, do you mean the fan spell card? Or do you mean with her camera shots? Or do you mean the giant wave of butterflies she sometimes send out during her summon?

?q · « **Reply #963 on:** August 12, 2009, 01:28:52 AM »

The one that's random spam. Red bullets of every size and speed flying everywhere :p

I'm disappointed in PoFV Youmu tbh. Her Lv. 1 slash is worthless IMO.

c l e a r · « **Reply #964 on:** August 12, 2009, 02:01:21 AM »

Hmmm... tried again.

I did okay, but then I always hate it when Stage 6 comes, either I make some dumb mistake and lose or Sakuya pulls some crazy hax and I lose. I'll give you an example, Sakuya just finished her summon, there are those daggers formations with little shits on the right, my only way is left at the corner, so I tried to go up that way, and just as I lined myself up. She uses her Level 3 and traps me. I have 0 gauge left.

Those red shits are not really an issue for me. It's when it mixes with either the butterfly attack or the Fan spellcard when I really have trouble streaming.

Aya, seriously, just sit down and shut up, goddamn. Stage 6 and 7 always take a life away. Sometimes I really wish I can be medicine, so that the computer can stop their hitbox hax.

I'm only using Youmu since there are mutiple times where computers, even Sieki, stands there like an idiot when the dragon summon starts.

nintendonut888 · « **Reply #965 on:** August 12, 2009, 02:18:14 AM »

When I beat PoFV lunatic my first time trying Aya...that was the most fun I ever had in that game. It's my least favorite in the series.

Sen · « **Reply #966 on:** August 12, 2009, 02:32:12 AM »

Quote from: u? on August 12, 2009, 01:28:52 AM

I'm disappointed in PoFV Youmu tbh. Her Lv. 1 slash is worthless IMO.

I think the slash would be a lot better if it didn't take Youmu a full second to charge it. Considering how fast-paced PoFV is, especially by Stage 7 and onwards, you don't have time to wait for her to cut those bullets. And even when you do, there's still more right behind the first. ;_;
That and her spirit field expands ridiculously slow.

@clear, have you tried using Cirno? Cirno has the easiest opponents IMO; Sakuya is an utter monster by Stage 6, but Cirno fights her around Stage 3, removing much of the difficulty. Instead, she fights Reisen at Stage 6, who's a total joke in any situation.
Unfortunately, her Stage 7 fight is against Ayayaya, but the best part is that Cirno completely skips Komachi. Instead, you fight Yuka at Stage 8, and Cirno vs. Yuka is one of the most amazingly fun matchups ever.

theshirn · « **Reply #967 on:** August 12, 2009, 03:12:40 AM »

ASTBFRGN METAL FATIGUE BULLETS

Remilia's opener and Young Demon Lord on Lunatic are BS for the simple reason that there are TOO DAMN MANY METAL FATIGUE BULLETS.

LHCling · « **Reply #968 on:** August 12, 2009, 05:30:42 AM »

Kicked up MS Lunatic for some practicing.

...Alice took 2 bombs and a life. And it's all because of walling, walling, and more walling.

nintendonut888 · « **Reply #969 on:** August 12, 2009, 05:47:10 AM »

Alice makes walls now?

I've always found MS Alice to be an easy boss with one hard attack.

LHCling · « **Reply #970 on:** August 12, 2009, 06:07:08 AM »

Quote from: nintendonut888 on August 12, 2009, 05:47:10 AM

Alice makes walls now? I've always found MS Alice to be an easy boss with one hard attack.

By probability, during Alice's "Odd Phases":

Alice has a string of random attacks:

Spray lots of bullets at high speed (First Phase only, happens automatically on the first attack, has a small chance afterwards) (1)
Fire an aimed ring [red or blue] (2)
Fire bullets aimed away from "face" (Later Phases) (3)
Fire aimed laser + random bullets (Later Phases) (4)
Fire red spiral of bullets which spin clockwise (2nd Last Phase) (5)

The 2 "slaves" (or fairies or dolls; whatever you would prefer to call them) have a chance to do certain strings of attacks. These are:

Fire a series of aimed snowballs (a)
Fire a random series of snowballs (lower chance, but still exists) (b)

Stringing a few of these together, and you have a formula for walling.

Barring the obvious 5+a+b and 5+2b, the other ones that wall me are:

3+a+b
3+2b
4+2b

To top it off, the clipdeath-prone: 1+2b

DgBarca · « **Reply #971 on:** August 12, 2009, 12:37:07 PM »

http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=4252
I lolfailed on the begining of Ran...
Then I reched Chen, lose with 3 bombs...
Also => BORDER BREAKING IS FUN BEFORE THE PC-98ish waves!

DgBarca · « **Reply #972 on:** August 12, 2009, 02:10:58 PM »

PAIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNNNN
She was at 0 life...all was slow and...and...NNOOOOOOOOOO
THIS IS DRAMAAAAAAAA

LHCling · « **Reply #973 on:** August 12, 2009, 10:15:49 PM »

Fun fact: EoSD bullets are larger than the "norm" of Windows Touhou bullets.

You can guess what this post is about now.

nintendonut888 · « **Reply #974 on:** August 12, 2009, 10:22:42 PM »

Quote from: BaitySM on August 12, 2009, 10:15:49 PM

Fun fact: EoSD bullets are larger than the "norm" of Windows Touhou bullets.

You can guess what this post is about now.

Bubble bullets are pro.

?q · « **Reply #975 on:** August 12, 2009, 11:58:58 PM »

Quote from: nintendonut888 on August 12, 2009, 10:22:42 PM

Quote from: BaitySM on August 12, 2009, 10:15:49 PM
Fun fact: EoSD bullets are larger than the "norm" of Windows Touhou bullets.

You can guess what this post is about now.
Bubble bullets are pro.

Oh dear lord. A certain GFAQs topic came back to me when I saw that.

Anyway, I have to ask donut what the optimal strategy for PoDD is. Playing PoDD Easy and PoFV Easy is like night and day, because I don't remember PoFV Easy throwing Lv. 16 spells and summons at me. (Very fun to play, but not what I'd call Ijji Modo.) And I still couldn't score a hit on Yumemi in the first round even after loading both screens with bullets.

nintendonut888 · « **Reply #976 on:** August 13, 2009, 12:15:19 AM »

The ultimate strategy, as I discovered through much trial and error:

Because no matter what you do, you can't really choose when the opponent dies, you instead have to outlast them. Meaning, you want to drag out the fight as much as possible.

In short, you want to get to max charge ASAP, especially before your opponent can reach it. However, if you just blindly fire for points, you're going to cause a bunch of boss attacks to be thrown around, and more often than not (because the computer is a cheating bastard and knows where the spirits are going to fall), you're going to end up on the receiving end. Of course, because you obviously want the second extend, doing this may be worth your while at least once.

Anyway, the big strategy as I know it is to only blow up enemies that don't hug the top. No matter what, you want to avoid firing a boss attack through points because the computer will counter it. By destroying enemies closer to the bottom, you decrease the chance you'll blow up a spirit (which are worth HUGE points this way), and still fill up your gauge at a decent pace. Once you reach full power, wait until the opponent fires her boss attack. Once you see her starting to charge her gauge, start charging yours. As soon as she fires, fire your own to cancel her boss attack out and send her back to minimum power. Repeat this for as long as possible. When things get hairy, use your bombs.

Now, once you run out of bombs, you want the same general strategy. Instead of firing a boss attack though, you instead want to go hyper (by pressing the bomb button with no bombs and a full gauge). As Baity pointed out, there is a scenario where the AI is guaranteed to get hit, and while you're invincible, you can blow up as many spirits as you want to increase the chances of this, so just for here, go nuts. Just make sure you don't let the opponent activate a boss attack that goes on once it wears off.

And that...is my strategy. As for recommended characters, I found I had the best success with Reimu and Yumemi (and I beat lunatic with Yumemi, because apparently her crosses do well against the AI, though not Aya level or even Shikieiki level).

?q · « **Reply #977 on:** August 13, 2009, 12:37:57 AM »

Before I learned not to aimlessly mash Z I never even got the first extend :v

I like that approach with the boss attacks. I'm used to not watching the opponent's screen, so that'll take getting used to.

Can you get Hyper Modo back after you use it the first time? There's virtually nothing documented about PoDD on the wiki, so sorry if this seems like a stupid question - I guessed not considering it seemed like a last resort for when you lost all your Bombs.

I think if PoDD AI works the same way as PoFV AI, the characters that would be best against it would be Ellen (fast-moving charms), Mima (whatever those EX attacks are), Marisa (lasers), Reimu ("I got killed by Reimu Hakurei's balls"), Chiyuri (lasers, fast aimed Lv. 2 and 3 bullets), and Yumemi (crosses, anything Yumemi laser-targets for) - in more or less ascending order of usefulness. Poor Kana, all of her shots fire in straight lines...

If you want to blow up a lot of spirits at once, I think Kotohime's Magic Carpet Laser has the best spread/aim/charge time. Too bad her bomb-based attacks are swiss cheese for the AI.

EDIT: Altered above list. Wow, Ellen's Lv. 1 attack is... actually not very good at all because of the delay in its homing (plus it doesn't seem to target spirits).

nintendonut888 · « **Reply #978 on:** August 13, 2009, 04:44:56 AM »

Yes, hyper mode doesn't have a limited amount of uses. As long as you can keep getting up to full charge you can fire one off.

And the AI is different in the sense that there is no single attack that breaks the AI. I beat lunatic with Yumemi, but this was after MANY failed attempts with her in the past, so her crosses can't be THAT good against it. I used Reimu because of the good combination of speed and charge speed, not because the AI had a particular weakness to Reimu's big black balls.

mark2000 · « **Reply #979 on:** August 13, 2009, 06:37:34 AM »

Why is it that SA in Easy is such a pushover but when you get to normal, it becomes hard as balls? It's not even because I'm moving to higher difficulties. I actually started this game on normal and finally finished it after clawing my way through stages 5 and 6 for two hours. I tried out easy mode a few weeks later for some casual gaming and, honestly, to say that the transition was jarring is a really huge understatement. I practically finished the entire game without ever dying or using a bomb as compared to my painful run through normal where I finished without any lives or bombs left. It's like the game tried to take a few steps back in difficulty and instead flew back a hundred yards too far.

I know this may come out as a rant but not really. The experience was just weird. After playing this series starting from the 6th, this is honestly the first time I experienced a difficulty curve that's just a stroll down Easy Street until suddenly running headlong into a brick wall.

c l e a r · « **Reply #980 on:** August 13, 2009, 07:25:21 AM »

aaaah... I'm in despair.

I was super careful this time, not letting Stage 6 or slut take one of my lives. But then Komachi took 2. >_<

And yep, you guesses it, lost to Sieki with one live left. FML.

nintendonut888 · « **Reply #981 on:** August 13, 2009, 07:49:33 AM »

Quote from: mark2000 on August 13, 2009, 06:37:34 AM

Why is it that SA in Easy is such a pushover but when you get to normal, it becomes hard as balls? It's not even because I'm moving to higher difficulties. I actually started this game on normal and finally finished it after clawing my way through stages 5 and 6 for two hours. I tried out easy mode a few weeks later for some casual gaming and, honestly, to say that the transition was jarring is a really huge understatement. I practically finished the entire game without ever dying or using a bomb as compared to my painful run through normal where I finished without any lives or bombs left. It's like the game tried to take a few steps back in difficulty and instead flew back a hundred yards too far.

I know this may come out as a rant but not really. The experience was just weird. After playing this series starting from the 6th, this is honestly the first time I experienced a difficulty curve that's just a stroll down Easy Street until suddenly running headlong into a brick wall.

The difference between SA easy and SA normal is very jarring, because SA normal compares to some hard modes. I think you'd find the difference between EoSD hard and EoSD lunatic to be worse though.

lmagus · « **Reply #982 on:** August 13, 2009, 12:56:09 PM »

OH MY GOD

I have no words to describe that feeling

Yesterday i was playing EOSD and got to the 6th stage for the first time.. I had never seen it before.

I had played this game only 3 or 4 times before because I haven't had much time to practice...

Anyway, I got to it with 1/0

Captured Eternal Meek and I was already sad I would lose so fast to Remilia, since i had never fought her and i only had one life left.

Sudenlly the music started and MY GOD, her theme music is AWESOME. It's by far the best Touhou music I've ever listened to.

I don't know if it was just luck or my senses were highly heightened because I loved the music so much I wanted to keep listening to it.

I died on her first non card. Captured Star of David, bombed in Scarlet Netherworld, captured Curse of Vlad Tepes, bombed Scarlet Shoot, and got to Red magic with one bomb left...

I HAD to keep playing feeling like that, I KNEW I was going to last. I first bombed when she had half life left...

And died right after.

I broke a keyboard in the end >.<

It was the most fun I've ever had playing a game in my life. So I'm glad for that

I hope i can finish this game asap so only SA will be on my way to Hard Mode.

Rikter · « **Reply #983 on:** August 13, 2009, 01:36:23 PM »

I played Imperishable night for the first time yesterday... I raged at how ridiculous every Spell Card was on Normal.

I then played some of Lunatic EoSD. I normally play normal in EoSD but I think I acctually did better in EoSD than I did in Imperishable Night.

Sodium · « **Reply #984 on:** August 13, 2009, 03:07:21 PM »

Protip:IN's cards are mostly tricks. They're easy once you figure out the trick.

...and there isn't a hard card in IN Normal until stage 4. What the hell are you talking about?

?q · « **Reply #985 on:** August 13, 2009, 03:32:11 PM »

Quote from: EX Na2O2 on August 13, 2009, 03:07:21 PM

...and there isn't a hard card in IN Normal until stage 4. What the hell are you talking about?

Three Sacred Treasures "Orb" and maybe Phantasmal Emperor. But other than that.

Generalguy · « **Reply #986 on:** August 13, 2009, 06:58:12 PM »

The fairies right after Sanae midboss in SA Extra. I always have to bomb for them. Those bullets are aimed and go so fast I can't really dodge anything and have to stream, then I'm stuck in the corner. And those fairies shooting bubbles, too, I hate them. I'd like to reach Koishi at Full Power. I'm getting better though, I managed to reach her with 3 options.

Fortunately, Sanae is the easiest extra midboss I've tried yet (there's Kanako left, and anything in PC-98). I can perfect her often enough. Her first spellcard is easy and is just a waste of time while I can read Miracle Fruit easily enough (though with Marisa I would clipdeath every time). Only the last one can be hard sometimes. It depends on the raining bullets. My playstyle is moving around a lot, and those spells are well suited to it.

Release of the ID and Super Ego : At first, I found the first one (I mix them up all the time) to be quite easy, but the second to be really hard. Now that Drake said it's easier to do them with mostly horizontal movements, it's the opposite. Where should I position myself?

EDIT : Installed vsync patch. Not sure if it really removes any lag, but it makes the game run at 60 FPS instead of 62.5 FPS.

nintendonut888 · « **Reply #987 on:** August 15, 2009, 09:59:17 AM »

Let me be the first to say that Syou's gimmick of WAVY LASERS is NOT welcome. >_< I failed my second try of UFO normal largely because of those. Same with Hiziri's third spell card. I actually really like Hiziri's battle, but her third spell card needs to die in a fire.

As for whether or not lunatic was fixed...I don't know, because I couldn't reach Ichirin due to the enemies walling me. >:D Stage 3 feels fairer though, even if the second half is indeed still a piece of shit. Or did you guys figure out how to avoid the unavoidable while I was gone?

LHCling · « **Reply #988 on:** August 15, 2009, 10:00:24 AM »

Quote from: nintendonut888 on August 15, 2009, 09:59:17 AM

As for whether or not lunatic was fixed...I don't know, because I couldn't reach Ichirin due to the enemies walling me. >:D Stage 3 feels fairer though, even if the second half is indeed still a piece of shit. Or did you guys figure out how to avoid the unavoidable while I was gone?

Compare with trial?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FPljwvxRBA

nintendonut888 · « **Reply #989 on:** August 15, 2009, 10:04:56 AM »

...See, the thing is I really dislike those kinds of dodges. It seems that ZUN opted to not change the second half of stage 3 AT ALL. >_< I'll leave it to bjw or whoever wants to try their hand at lunatic. I'll focus on normal for now.