Miscellaneous Questions Thread (LOOK HERE OR DIE)

[Sabino]

So the only valid point is "True immortality", therefore unless someone kills Eirin (which is quite hard) we can't confirm it. Just drop this topic anyway ~_~

Agreed, unclear is probably the best.

BTW I was searching for stuff on this topic a while ago (during the conference few pages ago)
and many of my the sources I found in Japanese supported the view of Eirin taking the elixir.
...But I'll keep it down since I don't want to stir up trouble.
If you're interested:
Japanese Wikipedia
Nico Nico encyclopedia
Japanese Touhou wiki
Pixiv encyclopedia

[OkashiiKisei]

I do have two things I ant to add on this matter. If I don't my heart will pop out of my chest, sprout limbs and start beating the shit out of me. I just can't end this without getting this off my chest.

I have two theories on why the whole 'Eirin is (not) immortal' business.

1) Eirin is indeed immortal, and has consumed the Hourai Elixer. However, she has consumed a flawed Hourai Elixer.
Think about it. Mokou used to have black hair, and didn't have any magic power whatsoever. However, once she drank the Hourai Elixer, her hair turned white over the years, and she obtained the power of the Phoenix. Kaguya still has black hair, and she doesn't have phoenix powers She fights with her own magical knowledge. Kaguya got an elixer from Eirin, genius of the Moon. Mokou stole hers from some bloke on Mount Fuji. No one can make the Hourai Elixer as perfect as Eirin, who had Kaguya's eternity powers to help her out, and the Hourai Elixer is nigh impossible to create for mosts. This dude had made/obtained an imperfect Hourai Elixer, which, while giving immortality, doesn't protect one from diseases, and makes your hair age none the less. This gave Mokou white/grey hair: her hair didn't stay youthful.
The Hourai Elixer needs an 'eternal ingredient'. Kaguya could make a perfect one with Eirin because she used her power of Eternity. The Fuji man didn't have an eternal princess around, so he used an alternative: the soul/feathers of a phoenix, an eternal being. This however also gives the drinker of this Elixer phoenix powers. Thus Kaguya stayed the same as she is, while Mokou got uber buffed to pyro extraordinair.
My point here? Eirin also has white hair, like Mokou, while she claims she doesn't age. I think Eirin tested a proto type of the Hourai Elixer on herself, one which wasn't prepared well or lacked the Eternity power provided by Kaguya. Thus, once Eirin reached Earth, her hair started to turn grey/white thanks to the impurity of Earth. Her hair aged too.

Spoiler:

It would also explain why she's not immune to poison. She's still vulnerable to it. She would revive ofcourse, but it might be a lot more risky for her than Mokou and Kaguya. Or maybe dying and reviving is a bitch and she'd rather cure herself.

On the other hand, maybe Eirin only got hightened regeneration and eternal youth, but can still be killed. That's why Yuyuko didn't mention anything about Eirin being unable to die: she still has a few of those 'death points' Yuyuko uses.

Or alternatively:

2) ZUN ignored the 'immune to diseases' point to increase drama, or was drunk/forgetful while writing it. Everyone in Gensokyo is an unreliable narrator, even ZUN. It should just be ignored entirely, like how Perfect Memento musn't be taken for truth either. ZUN tends to fill in bullshit for trolling/due to his own lacking memory/'cuz he's drunk. And drinking that much beer all day will have negative effects on your memory capabilities...or your brain cells in general.

[Dizzy H. "Muffin" Muffin]

2) ZUN ignored the 'immune to diseases' point to increase drama, or was drunk/forgetful while writing it. Everyone in Gensokyo is an unreliable narrator, even ZUN. It should just be ignored entirely, like how Perfect Memento musn't be taken for truth either. ZUN tends to fill in bullshit for trolling/due to his own lacking memory/'cuz he's drunk. And drinking that much beer all day will have negative effects on your memory capabilities...or your brain cells in general.

So, wait, your argument is "my pet fan-theory must be correct, because the creator of the series is wrong"?

And we already covered point 1 earlier. Lunarians are already immortal in the sense of "don't grow old or die of old age or illness," but they can still be killed by injury or poisons. The Hourai elixir prevents any kind of death.

[OkashiiKisei]

So, wait, your argument is "my pet fan-theory must be correct, because the creator of the series is wrong"?

And we already covered point 1 earlier. Lunarians are already immortal in the sense of "don't grow old or die of old age or illness," but they can still be killed by injury or poisons. The Hourai elixir prevents any kind of death.

How else can it be explained that the Hourai Elixer is explicitly described as to prevent all illnesses, yet one of the stories says the contrary? It's an incredible inconsistency. I think the 'prevent illnesses' is far more believable than 'your absolutely immortal but you can still die from malaria'. Why would something that is immortal, and thus have perfect regenerative and resistance abilities, get sick?! Or do I have to believe that the common cold doesn't have a cure, and that not even Hourai Elixer works?! That's the biggest pile of rubbish I've ever heard!

And regarding the 'Eirin drank a flawed elixer' statement, I know Lunarians live forever, but Sabino keeps spouting this nonsense that they have limited life spans on Earth! RIDICULOUS! NOTHING states that! But since Sabino is to stubborn to admit that Eirin is ageless anywhere, I just try and make a compromise to fit all the loose ends together without having Sabino start complaining again! But now I get all the others on my hide, who all now go against THIS theory! So what do I have to say people? Tell Sabino to shut it and stay with 'Eirin's ageless', or try and make an agreement by stating that 'Eirin's an imperfect immortal'? Your choice! I don't know what to believe anymore in all this inconsistent chaos...

[Dizzy H. "Muffin" Muffin]

Yes but I'm still with the "Eirin didn't actually drink the elixir" crowd.

[Sen]

ITT we RAEG trying to make logic out of flying lolis :V

[Dizzy H. "Muffin" Muffin]

We're nerds. Arguing is what we do. :yukkuri:

[Iryan]

Seriously, though, there is no definite answer. There a sources that seem to contradict each other, and the possibility of one or the other (or both) having made a mistake is actually not that small, so we just don't know. You can think anything you want as long as you don't try to impose your own beliefs unto others against their will. Dark Tewi, and all that. 

It is sort of like religious freedom, and like with religious freedom, I am going to decide for myself to be sceptical. I will only start to believe in a concept with absent evidence  if it both increases the enjoyability of my life and still has no noticable negative effect on the rest of my perception of reality,  i.e. I'm going to take up an agnostic position.


Yes, whether or not Eirin drank the Hourai Elixir is a matter of religion. Now bring in the acolytes! 

[Dizzy H. "Muffin" Muffin]

*deadpan* Burn the heretics.

[OkashiiKisei]

*deadpan* Burn the heretics.

YEAH! I'll get my torch!

[Nat Tea]

Oof. I don't get IOSYS anymore.

Need to ask.

Are they still an actual individual music group or do they organize albums for other artists now?

[Spidere]

YEAH! I'll get my torch!

I'll get my rusty carving knife!

[Forte Blackadder]

I suddenly have an urge to spread my info about "Hourai Elixir"... but no, you guys will cry :V
Just wanna say one thing: This is ZUN's work, and ask he stated, Touhou isn't something "serious" in his manner. Therefore, the plot/canon can be flawed (actually it has as many hole as a net). As long as it's acceptable in his manner, it's fine.

And I never consider Touhou as "flying lolis", it's like an insult, the same as "Pad maid". So if you please, try not say it too much :V

And the official fanbooks, it depends. If you're one who thinks "Ah, this is the world of ZUN." then trust it. However, if you think "Touhou is serious business." then it's just points of view of random character (Aya, Marisa, Akyu). Neither is correct and neither is incorrect. Have fun :V

[theshirn]

And I never consider Touhou as "flying lolis", it's like an insult, the same as "Pad maid". So if you please, try not say it too much :V

But...the whole "pad maid" thing is a particularly stupid bit of fanon, and "flying lolis" is quite simply the series as a whole.

[Sabino]

Just means some people won't enjoy some jokes, now people know and now people can be a bit more subtle about the joke. No?  :V
Sorta understand since I get a strange sting in my heart every time people call Kanako an old hag.

[Forte Blackadder]

Well, I think it's understandable for EoDS, but from PCB they're pretty much more mature. I mean, just look at MoF, only Suwako can be considered "loli". Even Mystia and Wriggle look like teenager to me.

And, my definition of "loli" is less than 12 years old.

Sorta understand since I get a strange sting in my heart every time people call Kanako an old hag.

Well she indeed is the most mature lady in the whole game up to now. The next in line is Byakuren xD.
But yes, I call them "ladies" :">

[OkashiiKisei]

Say, I recently thought up a story concept that might prove to be interesting, but fiirst I want to know if this is real or not:

Is there more than one Gensokyo?

Are there multiple magical sanctuaries for youkai? Gensokyo seems waaaaaay to small to house the multitude of the world's magical beings. Also, Japan is an awfully inconvenient place to travel to for magical creatures from Greece, Great Britain or Normandy. And there have to be more magical beings powerful enough to create a border. There are enough beings who can match Yukari's might (Shikieiki comes to mind), so there should be more magical beings who created a sanctuary to protect their kin.
Also, Alice's dolls are named after mythical lands, so she claims (atleast, I heard that somewhere). A hint that there are Gensokyo's hidden in Holland, France, China, and Great Britain?
I think there might be hidden lands in Egypt, Normandy and Mexico too, since those countries also provided loads of mythology. I doubt Japan is the only country with a magic sanctuary. It would be fun if Reimu actually visited these other magical lands and met up with their 'Reimu's' and 'Yukari's'.

[Forte Blackadder]

Gensokyo is not a guild from an MMO where people go "oh hey this is our territory, welcome to the elitism."
It once was a land in Japan, when there was a youkai hunt (similar to witch hunt in EU) and the Hakurei family created the border to protect the youkai. Let's say it like this:

Once upon a time, every race lived happily together. One day, human realized how weak they are, compared to youkai and oni. However, instead of training themselves to be a Celestial, human chose the fastest way to keep their pride: eliminating the stronger. Thus, with technique, knowledge and lies, human kept killing, chasing the "evil" to their end. But not all human were like that, the Hakurei, for instance, felt ashamed and pitiful for the youkai, thus they decided to help them, and go back to the peaceful life they once had.
Thanks to the power of Dragon God and Yakumo Yukari, the Border was created successfully and separated a small land to the rest of the world. Then, the land was named "Gensokyo" (Land of Illusions) to remember the past where human, youkai, oni lived happily, now is just folktales and legends.

So, basically, there may be other places where demons/devil hide themselves around the world, but none can have the peace Gensokyo obtains. You must see the difference.

And none said Japan is the only one has sanctuaries. However, they're not somewhere people can just go visit as they please.

And Shanghai is one of the most popular cities in China, where also has the myth of Hourai Island/Mountain. I already said about Hourai so you can just read it again somewhere in this topic.

[Sabino]

I think Fortevn summed it up quite nicely, as for Alice and her dolls...

Alice blows up her dolls so names probably won't even matter. In the first place there is nothing official about the names of the dolls except for the fact that it appears in a spell card.
Even in fandom we only know Shanghai and Hourai and nothing else, so I really want to question where the person who told you that got the idea from... (Probably the IOSYS PV... Blame them for everything )

Well, you could probably keep on going with your idea of storyline if you make it a "parallel universe" sort of setting, or maybe Yukari fiddled with the gap and opened our Bizzao Gensoukyou thread?

[beaver1231]

I've always wondered the significance of Kanako's onbashiras...

When is Reitaisai and Comiket usually held?

Also, what's 'Elitism' or however it's spelled?

[Nat Tea]

I've always wondered the significance of Kanako's onbashiras...

When is Reitaisai and Comiket usually held?

Also, what's 'Elitism' or however it's spelled?

Don't know about Kanako's onbashiras.

Comiket and Reitaisai (2009 + 2010) are usually held at the cool Tokyo Big Sight.

Elitism is like patriotism except it's the higher ups versus the "unintelligent". Or something like that. Either case, it's the practice of saying "I'm better than you". I don't know, go ask someone experienced in that.

[Formless God]

And I never consider Touhou as "flying lolis", it's like an insult, the same as "Pad maid".

You Kogasa'd me.

Well she indeed is the most mature lady in the whole game up to now. The next in line is Byakuren xD.
But yes, I call them "ladies" :">

I remember you calling Yukari a bitch just a few days ago. Elaborate ? :V

[Moerin]

Well she indeed is the most mature lady in the whole game up to now. The next in line is Byakuren xD.
But yes, I call them "ladies" :">

Actually... Eirin is probably the oldest, really.  And Byakuren spent most of her "life" sealed away, so I doubt she "aged" at all.  Technically speaking, I doubt she's even out of her 20s yet.  She does seem to be filled with the exuberance and optimism of youth, after all~

[OkashiiKisei]

Actually... Eirin is probably the oldest, really.  And Byakuren spent most of her "life" sealed away, so I doubt she "aged" at all.  Technically speaking, I doubt she's even out of her 20s yet.  She does seem to be filled with the exuberance and optimism of youth, after all~

Byakuren's permanently stuck in her late teens/early twenties. While most youkai tend to change slightly over the years, and Lunarians (I think) also change a bit during the course of their life times, Byakuren is frozen in her current age. She doesn't get older, age-wise nor body-wise. Even if you call her over 4000 years old, she technically still is seventeen eighteen. All part of being a greater youkai magician. Also, the requirement for becoming a greater magician is learning to overcome your temper. In other words: Byakuren is always happy and peppy because she has become physically unable to get angry.

[Forte Blackadder]

You Kogasa'd me.

I remember you calling Yukari a bitch just a few days ago. Elaborate ? :V

You should know the difference between friendly chats and serious business, and I'm not a Touhou Encyclopaedia.

Actually... Eirin is probably the oldest, really.  And Byakuren spent most of her "life" sealed away, so I doubt she "aged" at all.  Technically speaking, I doubt she's even out of her 20s yet.  She does seem to be filled with the exuberance and optimism of youth, after all~

Well I was talking about the "appearance". Eirin looks definitely younger than Kanako and Byakuren in my viewpoint.

[SupahVee1234]

Question - what's wrong with the "perspective" of the game? You see your own character in a top-down view (from the sky), but the player can see all of the boss's body, face, etc. It looks like the boss is floating mid-air looking at the sky.  :V

Also, some boss enemies are very very big compared to the player. Is this because of ZUN's poor art, or is there another reason?

Is the game just an "abstract" representation of Danmaku? It makes no sense that the player dodges slow bullets and the boss stands still and gets hit by very fast bullets.

It's like Civilization, or Hearts of Iron, right? Where a tank is as big as a nation. It's just a visual strategic representation of a Danmaku fight.

Or ZUN's art just makes no sense.

[Nobu]

Question - what's wrong with the "perspective" of the game? You see your own character in a top-down view (from the sky), but the player can see all of the boss's body, face, etc. It looks like the boss is floating mid-air looking at the sky.  :V

You can't be held back by common sense in Gensokyo!

[OkashiiKisei]

Also, some boss enemies are very very big compared to the player. Is this because of ZUN's poor art, or is there another reason?

I actually discussed this with several other members of MotK in this old thread. It'll give you a lot of info and theories regarding Touhou characters' size and the workings of Gensokyo magic. It was really fun to talk about, and we plan to expand it one day again. I hope you enjoy.

[Forte Blackadder]

Actually it's just because Touhou is a doujin game which focus on music and bullet-pattern. ZUN probably didn't care and there is no meaning behind it.
Please don't complex things. I mean, it's fine for us to give theories to have a good laugh, but for topic like this should just give the obvious explanation.

[Shizzo]

I actually discussed this with several other members of MotK in this old thread. It'll give you a lot of info and theories regarding Touhou characters' size and the workings of Gensokyo magic. It was really fun to talk about, and we plan to expand it one day again. I hope you enjoy.

I'd SO ress that topic because of Iku's sprite's ginormous size