Author Topic: Spellcard Help Topic  (Read 145706 times)

Drake

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Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #210 on: August 01, 2009, 03:38:26 PM »
Can you give me a replay? It doesn't really make much sense to me when I can beat it consistently with Reimu, who's the slowest.

A Colorful Calculating Creative and Cuddly Crafty Callipygous Clever Commander
- original art by Aiけん | ウサホリ -

Flay_wind

Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #211 on: August 01, 2009, 08:34:02 PM »
Um... Any tips on Kanako LOL-opener? Or just bomb and don't make your eyes bleed from too much frustration.

Krimmydoodle

  • We must apply more SCIENCE!
Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #212 on: August 02, 2009, 07:35:53 AM »
just bomb and don't make your eyes bleed from too much frustration.

This.  If you start doing endless VoWG grinds (because you don't do endless Stage 6 grinds for any reason but that card), you'll "learn it" eventually, but it's a definite bomb in a 1cc attempt.  You don't need the power for Mad Dance and Divining Crop anyway.
Whether you're on Easy or you're a Lunatic, be damn proud of your accomplishments.  Don't let anyone convince you otherwise, for it's when you lose faith in your own achievements that those victories become defeats.

nintendonut888

  • So those that live now, pledge on your fists and souls
  • Leave a sign of your life, no matter how small...
Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #213 on: August 02, 2009, 09:18:36 AM »
Relisting help request for Suwako's first survival card. I know that this is simply a route I need to learn, but I forgot the route...
nintendonut888: Hey Baity. I beat the high score for Sanae B hard on the score.dat you sent me. X3
Baity: For a moment, I thought you broke 1.1billion. Upon looking at my score.dat, I can assume that you destroyed the score that is my failed (first!) 1cc attempt on my first day of playing. Congratulations.

[19:42] <Sapz> I think that's the only time I've ever seen a suicide bullet shoot its own suicide bullet

LHCling

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Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #214 on: August 02, 2009, 09:30:46 AM »
Any route works in theory. Some are easier to learn / execute. Timing your movement is also a crucial factor. Most start from the bottom-right (or left) and work their way around.

If you're scared about the "other" Suwako, she appears at around 17-8 seconds left on the timer.

If you can time it such that you can "direct" the "other" Suwako into the top corner from where you started (i.e. top-right if you started at bottom-right), it should make things a lot easier.

...that's about all the advice I can give without using pictures.
[16:25] <Kuruminut> Shut up MS Word, "fangirlism" is totally a word
<>
[07:59] <Sapz> ベーティさんは馬鹿っぽいだろう、この「っぽい」好き者

nintendonut888

  • So those that live now, pledge on your fists and souls
  • Leave a sign of your life, no matter how small...
Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #215 on: August 02, 2009, 09:41:44 AM »
Pictures would actually be the best way to help in such a card...
nintendonut888: Hey Baity. I beat the high score for Sanae B hard on the score.dat you sent me. X3
Baity: For a moment, I thought you broke 1.1billion. Upon looking at my score.dat, I can assume that you destroyed the score that is my failed (first!) 1cc attempt on my first day of playing. Congratulations.

[19:42] <Sapz> I think that's the only time I've ever seen a suicide bullet shoot its own suicide bullet

LHCling

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Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #216 on: August 02, 2009, 09:53:26 AM »
Eating up my precious bandwidth. Oh well  :V

And I had to swap to IE6 to upload these to another site since it would've been a hassle otherwise.

Disclaimer: not my pictures. Apologies for being a bit larger than I expected...

EDIT:

Red Arrow = Your movement
White Arrow = 1st Suwako
Yellow Arrow = 2nd Suwako

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt263/BaitySM/01.jpg
http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt263/BaitySM/02.jpg
http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt263/BaitySM/03.jpg
http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt263/BaitySM/04.jpg
http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt263/BaitySM/05.jpg
http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt263/BaitySM/06.jpg

EDIT 2: removed image coding, because I felt like it.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2009, 10:03:08 AM by BaitySM »
[16:25] <Kuruminut> Shut up MS Word, "fangirlism" is totally a word
<>
[07:59] <Sapz> ベーティさんは馬鹿っぽいだろう、この「っぽい」好き者

Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #217 on: August 03, 2009, 05:15:26 AM »
Hey everyone! I rarely post here; mostly lurk/read and go on pooshlmer...

I used to play eosd, pcb, and in mostly, but recently, I've been really getting into the pc-98 games. Specifically, mystic square. I'll be playing the others (I'll be playing hrtp soon after I can complete ms) later....

So mystic square! I've had trouble with a few things that I'd like some advice about. This is on normal btw.

First is those huge homing laser blob things (forgot who uses these). Without stage practice (or spellcard practice, wouldn't that be helpful?!), it's really hard to just play through and learn the behaviors of those homing lasers. For the windows games, I usually keep playing and trying different strategies for parts of a stage or spellcard that I have trouble with, and finding something that works. But these homing lasers are a pain because it's so hard to practice against them. I usually end up bombing :(
What's the best way to dodge these bad boys?

Second - Yumeko. It's hard to tell you guys which spellcard/attack I'm referring to, since I don't know the name of it and I've forgotten when she uses this. It's the one where she shoots white bullets in a fashion very similar to the faeries in eosd stage 5 right before sakuya mid-boss appears.
Also, the one where swords appear on the left and right sides of the screen and fly towards their respective opposite sides. I figured it's not a good idea to stay right in the middle of the screen since that's where the swords from both sides of the screen meet, and thus there's less space for dodging. Any other advice for this?

Third - Shinki's second last attack. I have no trouble with her last attack (just pure dodging), and have 'captured' it the few times I've faced it. But her second last one - holy shit it's like charming siege from all sides except impossible. Bullets flying everywhere, and then those two lasers, and the big bullets she fires right at you. I ALMOST 1cc'd mystic square by saving up a bunch of lives and bombs, and just using bomb after bomb after bomb, dying, then bombing again.... but no go, her MASSIVE hp sends this strategy down the toilet. Once this spell is like halfway through, I cannot survive for more than about 6 seconds without bombing. Just how does one approach this? I'm sure this spell is also harder because it's so damn intimidating that it makes me lose my cool :( I really wish I had a spell practice for this lol.

I think that's about it. Well thanks for reading! I know pc-98 games aren't as popular as the windows one, but maybe this post would inspire someone to try and face those homing lasers and shinki's omgwtf attack.


nintendonut888

  • So those that live now, pledge on your fists and souls
  • Leave a sign of your life, no matter how small...
Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #218 on: August 03, 2009, 06:05:29 AM »
Thanks Baity, but I tried that strategy and it didn't work. Looks like I need to look up something like Kefit's perfect run...

And Swamp, PC-98 players aren't as non-existent as they were a year ago.

First: No real trick to homing lasers (colloquially called cheeto lasers). Just misdirect them to give you as much breathing room as possible.

Second: I'm not sure which attack you're talking about...

Third: My computer lags on this part, but I don't think it's that hard, especially not on normal. Remember that the purple bullets have a much smaller hitbox than they appear to and you should be fine.
nintendonut888: Hey Baity. I beat the high score for Sanae B hard on the score.dat you sent me. X3
Baity: For a moment, I thought you broke 1.1billion. Upon looking at my score.dat, I can assume that you destroyed the score that is my failed (first!) 1cc attempt on my first day of playing. Congratulations.

[19:42] <Sapz> I think that's the only time I've ever seen a suicide bullet shoot its own suicide bullet

LHCling

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Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #219 on: August 03, 2009, 06:30:25 AM »
@'nut: ;_;

Moving right along to MS help...

First: It's a matter of practice. No real trick, apart from being closer to the "cheeto lasers" while they're accelerating is safer than most people think. Unfocus dodging is also another tip if you haven't started doing that for this already.

Second: I'm not entirely sure which one you're referring to. Use this video, and point out the time where you see the attack closes to it. Also, I plan on trying to 1-bomb clear Yumeko sometime soon.

Second and a half: Also, for the attack with knives coming in from the sides, it certainly helps if you're off to the side, even if it's a little bit. The only other advice is to move upwards "through" the wave, and then stream the other bullets Yumeko fires.

Third: Raw dodging. Plus BS. Being at the bottom can make bullets wall you. Being closer to Shinki means you can clip. I suggest being about... wherever you were for the previous two phases (which should be center, and about a quarter of the way up or so), and proceed as normal. Be prepared to bomb. The phase shouldn't last that long at least. Also, the lasers and "surrounding" bullets should be nothing but boundaries to your dodging.

EDIT (2): additions.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2009, 07:10:17 AM by BaitySM »
[16:25] <Kuruminut> Shut up MS Word, "fangirlism" is totally a word
<>
[07:59] <Sapz> ベーティさんは馬鹿っぽいだろう、この「っぽい」好き者

Lopsidation

  • Exploring the Twin Labyrinths
  • Be light of heart;
Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #220 on: August 03, 2009, 01:11:58 PM »
I'm trying to capture all of PCB's spells on Lunatic mode (not in one playthrough, that'd just be silly) and, well...
Any tips for Yuyuko's last spell, or at least surviving the waves with >50% consistency? Her normal and hard versions are consistent near-trivial captures, but the double-layered red rings are just too hard to get through. I'm lucky if I can even survive one wave.

EDIT: Okay, I'm watching Kefit's video, and apparently I'm not supposed to be dodging this halfway up the screen?
« Last Edit: August 03, 2009, 01:15:04 PM by Lopsidation »
"Happiness is like a cat, If you try to coax it or call it, it will avoid you; it will never come. But if you pay no attention to it and go about your business, you'll find it rubbing against your legs and jumping into your lap."

Sapz

  • There's no escape.
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  • It's time to burn!
Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #221 on: August 03, 2009, 05:10:24 PM »
I'm finding myself completely unable to capture Royal Flare with anyone other than Marisa A (who can kill it before it gets to the more difficult parts). Is there a certain route you have to follow to make it simpler, or is it just a case of getting better at dodging?
Let's fight.

Drake

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Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #222 on: August 03, 2009, 05:44:57 PM »
http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=4172
Uploaded a replay for the sake of demonstration. Here you go.
Slowed just a teensy bit.

A Colorful Calculating Creative and Cuddly Crafty Callipygous Clever Commander
- original art by Aiけん | ウサホリ -

Sapz

  • There's no escape.
  • *
  • It's time to burn!
Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #223 on: August 03, 2009, 06:38:06 PM »
http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=4172
Uploaded a replay for the sake of demonstration. Here you go.
Slowed just a teensy bit.

Ah, I'd never thought about doing the second wave like that. Thanks, that helps a lot. :)
Let's fight.

Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #224 on: August 03, 2009, 09:48:22 PM »
Speaking of EoSD...

Illusional Misdirection:  So what's a good dodging pattern for capturing this thing consistently?  I'm too lazy to grind/memorize it myself.  :p

And Then Will There Be None:  How do I dodge the final wave, aka the part where it actually gets hard?

Drake

  • *
Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #225 on: August 03, 2009, 10:23:53 PM »
Illusional Misdirection starts with Sakuya moving to the left and teleporting to the right. So, tapdodge the knives to the right. You'll be hitting her once she teleports. Then, she moves to the right, so you're still hitting her. Then tapdodge to the left. Repeat until dead. It's really just micromanaging how you dodge the kunai from the sides. If you move too much, you'll end up misdirecting the entire thing and walling yourself.

ATTWBN's last oshi phase isn't any different from the rest. It's just more frantic, and you have to position yourself so that you can move through the next wave with ease. Note that you can avoid the last green and yellow waves by just moving to the center.

EDIT: What the hell an hour later and you just said the same thing.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2009, 11:55:44 PM by Drake »

A Colorful Calculating Creative and Cuddly Crafty Callipygous Clever Commander
- original art by Aiけん | ウサホリ -

Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #226 on: August 03, 2009, 11:51:05 PM »
Illusional Misdirection:  So what's a good dodging pattern for capturing this thing consistently?  I'm too lazy to grind/memorize it myself.  :p

Just move as little as possible. Practically everything is aimed, so as long as you make small dodges, Sakuya's knives will never hit you and the shuriken can be seen from a mile away.

Quote
And Then Will There Be None:  How do I dodge the final wave, aka the part where it actually gets hard?

The same as you dodged the first, but faster. Also, you can head to the center for the last 3 seconds, since there aren't any bullets to squash you.
Quote from Myosotis:
"Marriage is a game you can't win. Also, no replay value and the level design is bullshit.

Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #227 on: August 06, 2009, 03:48:31 AM »
nintendonut and Baity, thanks for the advice!

yeah, unfocused dodging is easier. theyre just difficult for me to judge where exactly theyre going because ive never encountered anything like them in the windows games. just gotta practice more against these cheeto lasers.

the attack i was talking about starts at 3:15. now that ive seen the video, i guess i was just in the wrong place every time lol, because i remember trying to dodge in between the big bullets, and i also happened to be in the spots where the little bullets and big ones cross paths. the video also helped on a lot of the other attacks too, so thanks for that.

i think my problem was with staying at the bottom. i also found myself running into the lasers on my left and right because i was focused on the purple balls. ill try dodging up a bit higher.



Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #228 on: August 11, 2009, 09:35:24 PM »
Right, I'm fed up with this shit.



How the hell do you dodge this damned wave of blue bullets? They are *perfectly* covering every single gap there is in the green wave, and I always, ALWAYS die to this particular formation.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2009, 09:37:08 PM by Arcengal »
Quote from Myosotis:
"Marriage is a game you can't win. Also, no replay value and the level design is bullshit.

nintendonut888

  • So those that live now, pledge on your fists and souls
  • Leave a sign of your life, no matter how small...
Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #229 on: August 11, 2009, 09:40:40 PM »
I'd have to see it in motion to see exactly what wave it is, but that looks like the kind of wall where you have to macrododge and get to another opening. I see an opening that would have opened to your right.
nintendonut888: Hey Baity. I beat the high score for Sanae B hard on the score.dat you sent me. X3
Baity: For a moment, I thought you broke 1.1billion. Upon looking at my score.dat, I can assume that you destroyed the score that is my failed (first!) 1cc attempt on my first day of playing. Congratulations.

[19:42] <Sapz> I think that's the only time I've ever seen a suicide bullet shoot its own suicide bullet

Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #230 on: August 11, 2009, 10:04:39 PM »

 :(

Red is where the opening is, I'm guessing.
Blue is where my eyes are during the spell.

Do I honestly have to *shudder* look at the entire screen to beat this? I had to do it a couple of times in StB and it was sore as hell on my eyes, so I can't imagine what VoWG would do.
Quote from Myosotis:
"Marriage is a game you can't win. Also, no replay value and the level design is bullshit.

nintendonut888

  • So those that live now, pledge on your fists and souls
  • Leave a sign of your life, no matter how small...
Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #231 on: August 11, 2009, 11:05:46 PM »
Capturing VoWG requires that you learn to see a much larger section of the screen than you usually have to, so yeah.
nintendonut888: Hey Baity. I beat the high score for Sanae B hard on the score.dat you sent me. X3
Baity: For a moment, I thought you broke 1.1billion. Upon looking at my score.dat, I can assume that you destroyed the score that is my failed (first!) 1cc attempt on my first day of playing. Congratulations.

[19:42] <Sapz> I think that's the only time I've ever seen a suicide bullet shoot its own suicide bullet

Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #232 on: August 11, 2009, 11:23:02 PM »
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.
  :-[
Quote from Myosotis:
"Marriage is a game you can't win. Also, no replay value and the level design is bullshit.

Milkyway64

  • I AM A MAD SCIENTIST. KIND OF.
Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #233 on: August 12, 2009, 04:23:25 AM »
SA Extra. I can get to the cards that involve crossing heart bullets (Something Id and Super Ego) but for the life of me can't predict them. They mess with my eyes. Any way to make them easier to handle? I've suffered embarrasing death after embarrassing death to them.

Drake

  • *
Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #234 on: August 12, 2009, 04:31:25 AM »
They're made to screw over your eyes. Uh, for both of them realize that you can capture it even with just horizontal movements. There's not much to it aside from your timing.

A Colorful Calculating Creative and Cuddly Crafty Callipygous Clever Commander
- original art by Aiけん | ウサホリ -

Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #235 on: August 14, 2009, 01:08:09 AM »
SA Extra. I can get to the cards that involve crossing heart bullets (Something Id and Super Ego) but for the life of me can't predict them. They mess with my eyes. Any way to make them easier to handle? I've suffered embarrasing death after embarrassing death to them.
I'll tell you that the hitbox of the hearts are smaller than they look (but then again, that doesn't really help).
This is only for Release of the Id as I get owned in Superego:

I find it easy to stay in the middle of the screen. As the hearts start coming in, you'll notice that there are always two hearts that cover the same area. The next pair is off by a bit, and there's a slight gap where you can pass through.

tl;dr version: horizontal weave through heart gaps lol

LHCling

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Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #236 on: August 16, 2009, 12:39:32 PM »
"Straw Doll Kamikaze"

SA. Lunatic. Help?

Streaming doesn't seem to work. Dashing around doesn't seem to work.
Dolls are aimed at your position. Trail lingers around for a while. That's all there is to it, yet...
« Last Edit: August 16, 2009, 12:48:38 PM by BaitySM »
[16:25] <Kuruminut> Shut up MS Word, "fangirlism" is totally a word
<>
[07:59] <Sapz> ベーティさんは馬鹿っぽいだろう、この「っぽい」好き者

Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #237 on: August 16, 2009, 12:58:27 PM »
"Straw Doll Kamikaze"

SA. Lunatic. Help?

Streaming doesn't seem to work. Dashing around doesn't seem to work.
Dolls are aimed at your position. Trail lingers around for a while. That's all there is to it, yet...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Dn1bI2vuv8#t=4m22s

Should probably speak for itself.

Edit: @ Arcengal - when walls like those come, I usually resort to micrododging (e.g. fitting between the individual amulets that make up each cluster)
« Last Edit: August 16, 2009, 01:02:24 PM by bjw »

LHCling

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Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #238 on: August 16, 2009, 01:08:42 PM »
Ah. So it's... really really, careful streaming followed by a properly timed switch.

Also, in that replay of mine, I did capture Satori-Alice's last Spell Card at 0 Power  :V
[16:25] <Kuruminut> Shut up MS Word, "fangirlism" is totally a word
<>
[07:59] <Sapz> ベーティさんは馬鹿っぽいだろう、この「っぽい」好き者

Re: Spellcard Help Topic
« Reply #239 on: August 16, 2009, 03:56:42 PM »
So.. whats the trick with the giant green laser spellcards on ufo stage5? theyre kicking my ass.