Author Topic: Replay Critique / Analysis Thread  (Read 34455 times)

LHCling

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Replay Critique / Analysis Thread
« on: November 17, 2009, 08:41:00 AM »
Idea origin.

Submit replays (preferably a full run ...just don't submit Spell Practices), get feedback from other players. Not much else to add. Quote the author and the replay that you're referring to, unless your post is going to be underneath that person's replay. Or underneath somebody else's comment about that replay.

If you want to ask questions about a few specific Boss Attacks, then I suggest you post in this topic. If you're going to ask a lot of things, then I suggest you use this thread for all intents and purposes. And last but not least, if you just want the general advice, that would be for this thread as well.

Scoring advice will also be given (if you request it), but keep in mind that not everybody plays for score...

To keep "activity" going in this thread, I'm also going to try something new.

If you want to, you can submit replays to me and allow me to gauge your overall ability, habits and other whatnot. Of course, you can submit to me privately if you wish (via PM), and I can give out the results privately or in public (please specify, otherwise it's public by default). Post here saying that you've submitted a replay to me if you're going by the PM method, because it's pretty hard to see when you've sent a PM, especially when I'm multitasking.

EDIT: For the sake of adding a "comparison", AM's level will be the 10/10 score. Be sure to note that I'll be using a lot of decimals then  :V
« Last Edit: November 20, 2009, 07:42:22 AM by Baity »
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Zetzumarshen

Re: Replay Critique Thread
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2009, 10:11:18 AM »
Hello :)

Replay is http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=5990

I have a some Lunatic UFO Sanae A idea on scorerunning and surviving on stage 5. Here is the practice (sorry its not a full run). The requirements to score this are :
2 bombs at the start of the stage, 1 to bomb Nazrin's SC, other to bomb big fairies at post Nazrin,
1 Extra life, for suiciding in mid of blue item fairies,
and 1 bomb to destroy last waves of fairies.

While the requirements for survival are :
1. 1 bomb to destroy all the last wave of yinyangs
2. 1 extra life, spent on Radiant Treasure or Shou's 2nd normal attack,
3. 1 bomb to skip Vajra :P

So the stage itself, ideally, will only cost 2 extra life, making many rooms for errors at the other stage.

EDIT : the boss fight is not a concern for now. UFO Stage 5 is very intense and drains my stamina faster than any other stage.

Any comments is appreciated. :)
« Last Edit: November 17, 2009, 10:13:31 AM by Zetzumarshen »

LHCling

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Re: Replay Critique Thread
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2009, 11:32:29 AM »
Alright, from what I can see, it looks pretty solid. There was a mistake I saw close to the start, so that took off a bit from the potential score (a few missed enemies, but that can't really be helped sometimes). The only thing that I can see that needs adjusting is the part after the first Blue UFO is destroyed.

Replay with the first half of the stage as the focus. Note: I made the mistake of moving too soon when destroying the left fairy, but was saved by the snakes. And I destroyed the second Blue UFO too early.

That replay should explain everything to a satisfactory level. I'm debating on whether entering Nazrin with 1 Blue UFO is better, or 2 Blue UFOs. It's your call. Made a HUGE mistake (I forgot to wait and then bomb) on the second half though, costing me a fair bit. Then almost everything went wrong with Syou, including Vajra (something that I can actually do about 30-40% of the time). On the other hand, I did get one "RTG" capture.

I also tested some "different" grazing spots for the last non-spell; nothing new comes up. It looks nice grazing the center, but it's far too risky. Not to mention it doesn't seem to give that much more  :V

So overall, you just need to alter how you deal with the 3 large fairies after the first Blue UFO. Other than that, it's all good. However, if you can't do this (for example being at 1.xx or 2.xx Power; 3.xx Power is pretty strict with the timing already) I would probably ignore this altogether, or use a bomb to tear through them and still get the UFO Tokens.

As a quick note on the side, it's possible to graze the opening fairies
Spoiler:
for an extra 60 graze at most by standing at the right spot (direct center, around the "Value" marker), but ~50 graze is pretty minor for the "risk" involved
.

And I'll append the OP, I'll add practice runs in, seeing as scoring is quite complex at times.

Multiple Edits: Forgot to put a few key words in.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2009, 12:05:47 PM by Baity »
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[07:59] <Sapz> ベーティさんは馬鹿っぽいだろう、この「っぽい」好き者

Zetzumarshen

Re: Replay Critique Thread
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2009, 12:11:09 PM »
Well I've seen your replay too. I haven't had a clue to summon rainbow UFO after the first Blue UFO. But from your pointer, I think a last green UFO is the most appropriate. I wonder if destroying the rainbow faster will make things easier at the next yinyang waves?
EDIT : summoning Rainbow UFO was very feasible and easy to be followed up. The increase on stage portion scores is about 27+ million, not counting +1000 item value that is carried over to stage 6. Now to concentrate on static bullet waves that 3 big fairies shot... is rather draining. :(


Another note for your replay, I think you are a little late on bombing Nazrin's SC. I've gotten 100-200~ grazes more for bombing earlier.

What is your chance at not dying on big fairies post Nazrin? And are you confident enough to take the 2 last blinking blue UFO without bombing? I noticed there was a large blue item portion that didn't make it to the screen due to bombing, costing pretty significant score.

Quote
I also tested some "different" grazing spots for the last non-spell; nothing new comes up. It looks nice grazing the center, but it's far too risky. Not to mention it doesn't seem to give that much more

Have you tried to graze the purple lasers too? Is it beneficial or not?

Quote
So overall, you just need to alter how you deal with the 3 large fairies after the first Blue UFO. Other than that, it's all good. However, if you can't do this (for example being at 1.xx or 2.xx Power; 3.xx Power is pretty strict with the timing already) I would probably ignore this altogether, or use a bomb to tear through them and still get the UFO Tokens.

It's too hard for me. Even though big fairies shot a static waves, my response isn't quick enough to deal with the bullets. Plus there are little fairies from left to right that fires random bullets, which are my main concern. 
 
Thank you Baity for your tips. It was very helpful. :)

« Last Edit: November 17, 2009, 12:27:20 PM by Zetzumarshen »

LHCling

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Re: Replay Critique Thread
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2009, 12:32:22 PM »
I wonder if destroying the rainbow faster will make things easier at the next yinyang waves?
It should.

Another note for your replay, I think you are a little late on bombing Nazrin's SC. I've gotten 100-200~ grazes more for bombing earlier.
Noticed it myself. That would probably be because I slowly edged down to the bottom of the screen before bombing though. Then I had to move up the screen quickly, which is where the graze was "lost".

What is your chance at not dying on big fairies post Nazrin? And are you confident enough to take the 2 last blinking blue UFO without bombing?
If I can take one fairy out before the purple bullets are shot, my survival rate is very close to 90%. Otherwise, it drops to something like 25%. It's obviously patterned, but it keeps confusing me. Some of the scorerunners were able to move through without much difficulty though.

And I'm fairly confident about taking 1 blinking UFO without bombing, but certainly not 2. To be honest, I think the bullets are fired quite randomly, so it all comes down to luck as to whether I decide to bomb or not.

I noticed there was a large blue item portion that didn't make it to the screen due to bombing, costing pretty significant score.
:V

Have you tried to graze the purple lasers too? Is it beneficial or not?
While grazing the purple lasers at the same time will be beneficial, it also carries more risk. Not because of the purple lasers themselves, but because of the "extra" curving lasers which are fired periodically (it took me a few reruns to see them properly). There seems to be a fixed period of time where it is "safe" to graze the purple lasers though.

It's too hard for me. Even though big fairies shot a static waves, my response isn't quick enough to deal with the bullets. Plus there are little fairies from left to right that fires random bullets, which are my main concern. 
Those bullets are very annoying, I'll agree there. Not to mention that summoning a UFO obstructs you from destroying them for more Point Items. Nothing much can be done here to prevent that from happening though.
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[07:59] <Sapz> ベーティさんは馬鹿っぽいだろう、この「っぽい」好き者

ふねん1

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Re: Replay Critique Thread
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2009, 09:06:34 PM »
Yeah, now that I know there were no other critiquing threads out there, I would have made this if I had sufficient time (read: the end of the week). Oh well. Here are two replays of mine:

Replay 1: http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=5995

- This was my first pass of SA Stage 6 on Normal, recorded last Saturday. At the time, my key setup wouldn't let me move diagonally to the left (up or down) while firing. I have since downloaded a key remapper to fix that.

Replay 2: http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=5996

- Made this shortly before this post, same stage except this time on Practice Mode.

I have only been playing bullet hells for one-and-a-half weeks at this point, and only with SA. I suppose trying to compare myself with AM will emphasize how much I suck (especially since I'm not playing for score yet), but nonetheless I'd like to see how I stand. As for the individual replays, in some ways I can see how I messed up and died, though I would like others to comment on such instances too. Even when I'm not dying left-and-right due to my lack of control (something I expect to improve on with experience), if there's anything that I could be doing to keep myself safer/more efficient that I'm not seeing, please say so.
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LHCling

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Re: Replay Critique Thread
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2009, 09:51:23 PM »
one-and-a-half weeks at this point, and only with SA. I suppose trying to compare myself with AM will emphasize how much I suck (especially since I'm not playing for score yet), but nonetheless I'd like to see how I stand.
Alright, for a week-and-a-half player, you're doing exceptionally well.

You seem to have a good understanding of the "basic" concepts such as streaming. It was also somewhat interesting to note that you didn't decide to use the "Wall-Passing Ability" but I won't hold that against you. A lot of people don't use it for certain reasons, so I won't bother asking.

In terms of knowing how the patterns work, you seem to know a fair bit as well. I'm guessing it's because of focusing on SA, but it's still a good thing. However, seeing 2 Stage 6 runs and saying that is pretty weird  :V

Your "skill" (a meeasure of your reaction to "patterns") is a bit high and low; it's hard to gauge precisely where your skill lies at this point. Your movements are very accurate and precise, yet at the same time you also have this "defensive" playstyle where you quite literally adhere to the bottom of the screen in the event of encountering a dense wave of bullets.

The "defensive" playstyle might be a good thing, it might also be a bad thing; experience should tell you when to stick at the bottom, and when to not stick to the bottom of the screen. Then, there are times where you don't linger around the bottom, because you have a set method of doing something. Examples in your replays include Utsuho's 2nd and 4th non-spells. Contradicting this (again), you previously didn't have a "set" method of doing the 4th non-spell properly which led to a somewhat avoidable death. See the first attachment for the specific point in the replay I was referring to. Which leads too...

...habits. You have a habit of sticking to the bottom of the screen (good or bad thing; your call) upon encountering a difficult pattern claustrophobic spray of bullets. I don't see anything else that I would consider a habit at this point.

Quickly finishing this off the skill / habits analysis, you seem to have difficulty (then again, who doesn't initially?) when dealing with bullets coming from below you.

Since you don't actively score, I won't say anything there.

Overall, you're actually quite good. I reckon you could actually 1cc SA Normal relatively easily, but without seeing the other stage performances, I can't say this with certainty. You have the required "skill" for it, it's all a matter of how much you know about the other parts... and knowing your own limits. But I do see potential for you to improve pretty quickly.

EDIT: I didn't use the "scale" ratings because it's still too hard to measure your overall playing ability currently.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2009, 10:02:33 PM by Baity »
[16:25] <Kuruminut> Shut up MS Word, "fangirlism" is totally a word
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[07:59] <Sapz> ベーティさんは馬鹿っぽいだろう、この「っぽい」好き者

Scooter1000

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Re: Replay Critique Thread
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2009, 11:01:29 PM »
http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=5998

I've been trying to get a hard 1CC on EoSD for about ~2 months now and this is the latest replay (Done just 3 days ago). I can get through the first 3 or 4 stages with relative ease, then the brick wall that is known as stage 5 comes along and eats up most of my lives, usually leaving a few for stage 6 to pick off. Advice like 'You should bomb more" usually doesn't work for me because most of my deaths are either caused by my cockiness or by random bullets sneaking up on me.

ふねん1

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Re: Replay Critique Thread
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2009, 11:07:33 PM »
It was also somewhat interesting to note that you didn't decide to use the "Wall-Passing Ability" but I won't hold that against you. A lot of people don't use it for certain reasons, so I won't bother asking.

I guess I was influenced by Kefit's SA Stage 5 Lunatic perfect run (he didn't teleport there either). I know I'm nowhere near his skill, but by playing without the teleport, I can learn a bit more about how the bullet patterns work and how to deal with them.

The "defensive" playstyle might be a good thing, it might also be a bad thing; experience should tell you when to stick at the bottom, and when to not stick to the bottom of the screen. Then, there are times where you don't linger around the bottom, because you have a set method of doing something. Examples in your replays include Utsuho's 2nd and 4th non-spells. Contradicting this (again), you previously didn't have a "set" method of doing the 4th non-spell properly which led to a somewhat avoidable death. See the first attachment for the specific point in the replay I was referring to. Which leads too...

...habits. You have a habit of sticking to the bottom of the screen (good or bad thing; your call) upon encountering a difficult pattern claustrophobic spray of bullets. I don't see anything else that I would consider a habit at this point.
I've been thinking about why I tend to stay away from the bottom during those non-spells, and I think it's because of the extra room it gives, if only for a moment, when the rows of suns spread out really far. I also have the feeling (correct me if I'm wrong) that the rows home in on you slightly, so by staying closer I can limit how far they can potentially bend away from their normal trajectories. Then again, I'm sacrificing reaction time by staying so close, so I might try to experiment with avoiding them while staying a bitfarther down.

As for the attachment, the reason I died there was because I didn't make it past that row of sun danmaku in time, and, thinking I was trapped, I psyched myself into dying. This kind of ties in with me staying near the bottom - I could have easily survived that by going up and around to the right. Do good players usually not move that much when "streaming" the bubbles? If the rows of smaller bullets do follow you slightly, I'd have to balance navigating past a line of death with avoiding the bubbles.
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LHCling

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Re: Replay Critique Thread
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2009, 11:25:58 PM »
I guess I was influenced by Kefit's SA Stage 5 Lunatic perfect run (he didn't teleport there either). I know I'm nowhere near his skill, but by playing without the teleport, I can learn a bit more about how the bullet patterns work and how to deal with them.
Fair enough.

I've been thinking about why I tend to stay away from the bottom during those non-spells, and I think it's because of the extra room it gives, if only for a moment, when the rows of suns spread out really far. I also have the feeling (correct me if I'm wrong) that the rows home in on you slightly, so by staying closer I can limit how far they can potentially bend away from their normal trajectories. Then again, I'm sacrificing reaction time by staying so close, so I might try to experiment with avoiding them while staying a bitfarther down.
Good reasoning. Just to point it out, the main advantage of moving up higher is the freedom to move back down if you need to (moving up when necessary carries more risk but you might need to do it at one point or another). This actually allows you to fare better in attacks which are quite dense and (usually) slow moving. Of course, backing into bullets has happened before to many, many players. Several times too.

As for the attachment, the reason I died there was because I didn't make it past that row of sun danmaku in time, and, thinking I was trapped, I psyched myself into dying. This kind of ties in with me staying near the bottom - I could have easily survived that by going up and around to the right. Do good players usually not move that much when "streaming" the bubbles?
Hm. It varies on where you are. Generally, it's a good thing not moving a lot, but you might also trap yourself in (like in the attachment). Moving a lot (obviously) means that you might trap yourself as well. So it's finding the balance between the two. See below.

If the rows of smaller bullets do follow you slightly, I'd have to balance navigating past a line of death with avoiding the bubbles.
I've always moved in a set way such that I always ass the column of bullets while also not trapping myself between bubbles. This varies from very fine movements, to jumps between columns.

I'm not quite sure if the column of bullets are aimed, or fired at somewhat random angles to be honest. I know that the boss movements are fixed, the column firing positions are fixed, but not the angles at which the columns are fired.

@Scooter1000 if somebody doesn't beat me to it (I'll be away / busy for the next 5-6 hours after this post) then I'll give the appropriate advice.
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[07:59] <Sapz> ベーティさんは馬鹿っぽいだろう、この「っぽい」好き者

nintendonut888

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Re: Replay Critique Thread
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2009, 11:38:30 PM »
nintendonut888: Hey Baity. I beat the high score for Sanae B hard on the score.dat you sent me. X3
Baity: For a moment, I thought you broke 1.1billion. Upon looking at my score.dat, I can assume that you destroyed the score that is my failed (first!) 1cc attempt on my first day of playing. Congratulations.

[19:42] <Sapz> I think that's the only time I've ever seen a suicide bullet shoot its own suicide bullet

LHCling

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Re: Replay Critique Thread
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2009, 12:41:41 AM »
@Donut recent replays please  :V
You never specified what you want done with it.

Seeing as nobody else touched it, working on Scooter1000's right now (apparently, I have more free time due to SPEED READING).
[16:25] <Kuruminut> Shut up MS Word, "fangirlism" is totally a word
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[07:59] <Sapz> ベーティさんは馬鹿っぽいだろう、この「っぽい」好き者

LHCling

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Re: Replay Critique Thread
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2009, 01:37:50 AM »
http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=5998

I've been trying to get a hard 1CC on EoSD for about ~2 months now and this is the latest replay (Done just 3 days ago). I can get through the first 3 or 4 stages with relative ease, then the brick wall that is known as stage 5 comes along and eats up most of my lives, usually leaving a few for stage 6 to pick off. Advice like 'You should bomb more" usually doesn't work for me because most of my deaths are either caused by my cockiness or by random bullets sneaking up on me.
Your Stage 1-4 performance was excellent. "Water Elf" might've been better off being done with minimalistic movement though.

http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=5999
Spoiler:
I actually mess up Stage 4 to some degree. Tee hee
.

For Stage 5, I suggest learning the second quarter of the stage through my replay (which I did just moments ago!), which would've saved the walling by the fairy maids that come after the initial waves of fairy maids.

For Mid-Boss!Sakuya, I recommend trying to move closer like I do. "Misdirection" is pretty iffy at times (despite being micromem); even I started to panic due to the Hard-Lunatic swap.

The rest of Stage 5 seemed fine, except maybe the "requirement" to bomb "Killing Doll". More often than not, you're going to be hit by something as those knives are cheap. Very cheap.

Stage 6 you got "walled" during Mid-Boss!Sakuya because RNG decided to be mean. And then the occasional "slip" during Remi; not much I can advise you on there.

Overall, a very good run which could probably be 1cc material without that much more being put into it. Just need to be a bit more "aggressive" during Mid-Boss!Sakuya, and a bit more cautious (cheap knives) during Boss!Sakuya.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2009, 01:44:08 AM by Baity »
[16:25] <Kuruminut> Shut up MS Word, "fangirlism" is totally a word
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[07:59] <Sapz> ベーティさんは馬鹿っぽいだろう、この「っぽい」好き者

Scooter1000

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Re: Replay Critique Thread
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2009, 03:16:03 AM »
Thanks Baity. I'll try that out next time I play, although I don't think I can be much more cautious on boss Sakuya. I already try to stay as far away from the knives as possible.

Re: Replay Critique Thread
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2009, 05:24:45 AM »
I'd like to know what you think of my most recent PCB Extra:

http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=5785

Also, I always seem to fall just a little short of that extra life at 800 point items, when so many of the top Japanese players seem to get it fairly consistently - what exactly am I doing incorrectly?
« Last Edit: November 18, 2009, 06:30:09 AM by Poochy »

Zetzumarshen

Re: Replay Critique Thread
« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2009, 05:43:32 AM »
http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=5076

Just to run one through here. :V

From what I've seen ... stage 1 is haphazardly done. My principles is strong on earlier stages, bomb on later stages, so I find your run a little unsuited for me.

Seeing poor little items were dropping to the bottom of the screen made me feel sad ;_;

Well, nice Byakuren fight. Your capture on Magic Butterfly, Milky Way, and LFS are the highlights.

Other than that... I see you optimized Reimu A powerful bomb to the full extent :)

LHCling

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Re: Replay Critique Thread
« Reply #16 on: November 18, 2009, 05:51:25 AM »
http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=5785
Quite a nicely done run. A bit unfortunate at the end there.
Spoiler:
Interesting usage of bombs on Ran, I actually haven't seen the bombs used like that before
. The stage was done pretty close to perfection, save for missing a few fairies close to the end of the stage (before Ran). You're losing most of your Point Items there. If you took them all out, them I'm 90% certain that you would've made the 800 Extend! If not, then at least 1-2 Point Items bellow it.

If I were to crack it down to "pixel-perfect" grazing, then I would say that you need to graze a few more extra bullets during certain Spell Cards.

Working on Donut's now after sending a confirmation PM. I will say that his scoring ability (this includes using the PoC after Spell Cards) is almost non-existent.

Cut: Interesting overview. Especially...
Seeing poor little items were dropping to the bottom of the screen made me feel sad ;_;
« Last Edit: November 18, 2009, 05:53:08 AM by Baity »
[16:25] <Kuruminut> Shut up MS Word, "fangirlism" is totally a word
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[07:59] <Sapz> ベーティさんは馬鹿っぽいだろう、この「っぽい」好き者

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Re: Replay Critique Thread
« Reply #17 on: November 18, 2009, 05:56:25 AM »
Ah. So I 1cc'd IN Hard, but I'm still not proud of it. I want to be able to clear Stage 6 with more than zero lives remaining.

http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=6000

nintendonut888

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Re: Replay Critique Thread
« Reply #18 on: November 18, 2009, 06:09:03 AM »
Quote
Seeing poor little items were dropping to the bottom of the screen made me feel sad ;_;

Someday I'll make a replay of me actually trying to score just to show people the disaster that causes. :V In the mean time, I'd rather get some extra damage on a boss than worry about intangible things such as points.
nintendonut888: Hey Baity. I beat the high score for Sanae B hard on the score.dat you sent me. X3
Baity: For a moment, I thought you broke 1.1billion. Upon looking at my score.dat, I can assume that you destroyed the score that is my failed (first!) 1cc attempt on my first day of playing. Congratulations.

[19:42] <Sapz> I think that's the only time I've ever seen a suicide bullet shoot its own suicide bullet

Re: Replay Critique Thread
« Reply #19 on: November 18, 2009, 06:30:40 AM »
Hmm, this could be fun.

http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=6001

Here's a score run of PCB normal I just did. 3 things I'd like to make note of. The bomb on Youmu's spellcard was from me pausing the game, than apparently having my bindings messed up on my controller. The thing I had to pause for messed up my mood, which gave me a bad stage 6. Also, I'm really bad at figuring out timings for borders and such. I got really lucky on stage 4.

This is so far the highest score I have achieved on this game over all characters. Feel free to critique anything you please. Thanks in advance.

LHCling

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Re: Replay Critique Thread
« Reply #20 on: November 18, 2009, 07:11:41 AM »
http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=6000
A very quick run through your replay (read: 20 minutes worth of analysis) tells me a fair bit. I noted that you approached IN with a rather cautious playstyle, which tells me that is probably your first 1cc.

You seem to have trouble with Keine's second and last (excluding option) SCs, even though they're micromem. You should learn them (preferrably via Spell Practice) and you should be set there. "Ephemerality 137" is a familiar destroying exercise.

You had some trouble during Marisa. Not much to add other than saying that the "Master Spark" ("Final Spark starts off with a small laser hitbox in the middle IIRC checked and denied) has a delay before it actually gets a hitbox. Everything else was basically FEAR games. Marisa's last non-spell creates nice large gaps if you wait long enough by the way.

Ignoring Reisen for obvious reasons; there's not much your doing wrong other than the minor slip every now and then.

Eirin's Mid-Boss SC, direct the pot to the corner. It should become pretty trivial then.

For Kaguya, there's not much more to add except practice more. Other than that you're doing alright, save for... "Life Spring Infinity". See: attachment. I've marked the spots where you "should" be at (well, at least not between the lasers like that).

Stage portions are alright. It should be noted that Stage 6 should be cleared quite easily without bombing. You can wall jump between waves after destroying one of the Fairy "masters", or just jump through them with proper timing. Though, I have a feeling that you already know this, and the reason why you bombed is because this was going to be a first 1cc and / or cautious playstyle (see: above).

EDIT: Mystia is more FEAR games. Last 2 SCs are easy if you don't panic.

Still working on our pastry's. Picking up Cyclone's after dinner.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2009, 07:36:25 AM by Baity »
[16:25] <Kuruminut> Shut up MS Word, "fangirlism" is totally a word
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[07:59] <Sapz> ベーティさんは馬鹿っぽいだろう、この「っぽい」好き者

Just a GBZero

  • <Kaisou> ...Yeah, kinda small, but I think it works...
  • Too much manga now means not enough manga
Re: Replay Critique Thread
« Reply #21 on: November 18, 2009, 07:44:42 AM »
It would be nice for comments, tips, uniquenesses, oddities, in mine.  IN Youmu&Yuyuko Extra
Replay: http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=6002

Ignore random stage deaths/bomb.  Those dont normally happen other than the one at the death fairy at the end, and I need that extra life.

Re: Replay Critique Thread
« Reply #22 on: November 18, 2009, 07:48:04 AM »
Quite a nicely done run. A bit unfortunate at the end there.
Spoiler:
Interesting usage of bombs on Ran, I actually haven't seen the bombs used like that before
. The stage was done pretty close to perfection, save for missing a few fairies close to the end of the stage (before Ran). You're losing most of your Point Items there. If you took them all out, them I'm 90% certain that you would've made the 800 Extend! If not, then at least 1-2 Point Items bellow it.
Thanks for the input!

Any advice on how to consistently take out all the fairies there? I always bomb there for the sake of getting a border, and I seem to often miss a couple fairies in the chaos the bomb causes on the screen.

DgBarca

  • Umineko fuck yeah
  • Spoilers ?
Re: Replay Critique Thread
« Reply #23 on: November 18, 2009, 07:59:10 AM »
http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=5994
Just...I feel incompetent...
I wasn't going for a No Bomb Byakuren...And yes, died at the beginning of glowing orb of stage 6 because of this fucking UFO that I needed to BREAK IT...Also "Yay I have captured Most Valua- OHSHI-BOMB"

Well, 3rd run getting after stage 2 with ReimuB (lol UFOcan'tIchainyouproprely) but I decided that screwing up one or two UFO in stage 1-2 wasn't that bad.

I am pretty satisfied of this run until Stage 6 that make me AGJGJGBJSDBFSDVFSJFGSJFDGFKS Stupid death >_< Why Didn't I move of devil recitation ? The bullet was coming into me and I didn't move at all, also 2nd noncard...WTF ? I didn't know that you can die here.

So, comment on all the run, please ?

If you want to compare it to my first 1cc you can because I finished 6/2.75
« Last Edit: November 18, 2009, 08:12:29 AM by DgBarca »
[21:16] <redacted> dgbarca makes great work
[21:16] <redacted> i hope he'll make a full game once

LHCling

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Re: Replay Critique Thread
« Reply #24 on: November 18, 2009, 08:04:44 AM »
Any advice on how to consistently take out all the fairies there? I always bomb there for the sake of getting a border, and I seem to often miss a couple fairies in the chaos the bomb causes on the screen.
Memorize the best method to take out all the fairies. Avoid relying on your eyes to see the surviving ones; there's too much on the screen. They're always spawned at the same position. I think watching a suitable replay and studying their movements actions carefully should do it.

Quote
more replays
:V
I'll go through them in order.
[16:25] <Kuruminut> Shut up MS Word, "fangirlism" is totally a word
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[07:59] <Sapz> ベーティさんは馬鹿っぽいだろう、この「っぽい」好き者

Re: Replay Critique Thread
« Reply #25 on: November 18, 2009, 08:23:50 AM »
It would be nice for comments, tips, uniquenesses, oddities, in mine.  IN Youmu&Yuyuko Extra
Replay: http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=6002

Ignore random stage deaths/bomb.  Those dont normally happen other than the one at the death fairy at the end, and I need that extra life.
First of all, I'll assume you're not playing for score here.
If you're using Youmu, for the second-to-last wave of fairies before Mokou (where they come in two rows from the top corners instead of the bottom), position yourself directly under one, and aim Myon at the opposite direction; you should get them all easily.

Mokou's first spell card has two safe spots. For the first wave, move to the bottom of the screen, and stay directly on top of the right half of the 'm' in "Enemy". Dodge the red bullets to the side. For the second wave of blue bullets, sit on top of the 'y' in "Enemy". I'm not sure about the third wave, though, since I always defeat her on the second wave.

After Mokou, the purple wave of bullets (4th set of fairies in the blue-green-blue-purple-blue-green sequence before the death fairy) is aimed. If you just sit at a spot near the bottom of the screen, you should be able to save yourself a bomb.

Mokou's second spell card (Immortal "Fire Bird -Flying Phoenix-"): Dodge like you're stream-switching, with the switch after every third wave (the denser ones). For example, let's say you start out to the right. Dodge the first wave moving to the left, and same for the second wave. When the third wave comes, move as far left as you can before the next wave comes. Then dodge the next two waves to the right. When the sixth wave comes, move as far right as you can, then switch back to dodging left. (If you start to the left, mirror all the directions.) Do NOT start this spell card in the bottom center of the screen, or chances are you'll get trapped in a corner or against the side.

Mokou's third spell card (Fujiwara "Flaw of Forgiving Shrine"): I recommend sitting somewhere on the bottom half of the screen and dodging purely horizontally. Move out of the way of the "peak" bullet in the pyramid if necessary, then as soon as a bullet passes you on the side, move in its direction. It's kinda hard to describe, so here's some ASCII art:
Code: [Select]
o = your hitbox
v = bullet
v   v

 v v     v   v       

o v      ov v     vo  v

Wait...    v       v v

       Move now.    v

             And you're through.

Mokou's fourth spell card (Deathless "Xu Fu's Dimension"): If you sit close enough to the bottom, the blue bullets coming from above will disappear before they hit you. (With Border Team, you can sit literally at the very bottom and the bullets below you still won't hit. With other characters, though, you'll want to be a pixel or two above the bottom.) Then just move off to one side, dodge the red bullets coming up from below moving to the other side, and you should be fine. I recommend checking the slower () shaped bullets Mokou fires while you wait for the next red row to spawn, though. They're loosely aimed in your general direction, so you want to be moving enough that they don't hit you.

Forgiveness "Honest Man's Death" is all about stream-switching. Dodge to the right, then once the laser passes, move as far to the right as you can without running into the next line of bullets, and start dodging to the left.

Re: Replay Critique Thread
« Reply #26 on: November 18, 2009, 08:51:23 AM »
[Edit: Excuse the double post. Sorry.]

http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=5994
Stage 2: Personally, I find it a little easier to actually go for blue UFOs at the beginning and after Midboss!Kogasa because of the static blue mini-UFOs. I tend to use the UFO explosion's bullet-clearing as a defensive mechanism; it's quite useful if timed well. Your mileage may vary, though.

Boss!Kogasa: On her second spell card, after the initial deluge where everything goes directly under her, it actually becomes relatively safe underneath her until the second such deluge. Consider moving back to the center to finish off that spell card faster.

Stage 3: Again, I like to use the UFO explosion as a defense on the sets of blue yin-yang orbs, so I recommend saving the first UFO for that spot.

Stage 4: When Midboss!Nue (the orb) shows up, try to get a blue mini-UFO, in preparation for the two static blue UFOs immediately after.

Stage 5: Personally, I like to just bomb Nazrin's non-spell. It's not worth the trouble, and the bonus enemies after the battle drop UFOs. Also, after Midboss!Nazrin, I like to summon a UFO and try to avoid shooting it, to keep the flood of point items from becoming a distraction.

Byakuren's second non-spell: Make up your mind as to which direction to dodge before the laser sights appear. Also, switch directions every couple lasers. The purple orbs are slow enough that they shouldn't be much of a threat as long as you're paying attention, so feel free to weave between them.

Byakuren's last non-spell: This is another one that I prefer to just bomb. I usually stay below her, then when she moves towards the bottom, bomb and stay at the bottom of the screen.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2009, 08:54:53 AM by Poochy »

Just a GBZero

  • <Kaisou> ...Yeah, kinda small, but I think it works...
  • Too much manga now means not enough manga
Re: Replay Critique Thread
« Reply #27 on: November 18, 2009, 09:02:20 AM »
Just a couple comments back, stage deaths with me are normally me messing around, since I dont find it that hard/interesting, so I tend to make it so.  The purple wave tip I didnt know, thanks for that one.

Immortal "Fire Bird -Flying Phoenix-" has always given me the most troubles, and didnt quite figure out Deathless "Xu Fu's Dimension" so thanks.  I do have a different, it more of a cheap way for Fujiwara "Flaw of Forgiving Shrine", its to stay on top of a familar, so that it wont summon its bullets.  Need to be Remiu/Focused to do so though.  I always seem to forget to do it though.

Replay of that since I never saw it before I did it:
http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=5659

Thanks for those tips

Zetzumarshen

Re: Replay Critique Thread
« Reply #28 on: November 18, 2009, 09:02:30 AM »
Quote from: DgBarca
http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=5994

Nice resource management through out stage 1-5! 7 3/4 extra life and full bomb stock before Murasa is quite a sight!

For Byakuren fight, try to remember how long a phase will end specific to Reimu B. There is a huge difference Byakuren fight between Reimu A and Reimu B, the latter one is much harder. Expect a twice longer fight if you are using Reimu B.

EDIT : oh yeah forgot to add Reimu B bombs seems does very little damage to Byakuren.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2009, 09:04:24 AM by Zetzumarshen »

LHCling

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Re: Replay Critique Thread
« Reply #29 on: November 18, 2009, 09:23:43 AM »
http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=6001
Finally, something that doesn't involve massive safespot abuse / supergrazing Spell Cards like crazy  :V
Barring the errors, that was actually quite an interesting run. I should get around to making runs like that someday, if only because I was inspired to have "perfect" scoreruns when I started playing.

Also, I'm really bad at figuring out timings for borders and such. I got really lucky on stage 4.
There's not much to critique the replay on (it looks good if you don't count supergrazing / Stage 1 + 2 Bullet Clear Bonus-Border Timings), so I'll explain the basics of Border timing. The timing of a Border can be controlled by:

  • Bullet Clear Bonus (a.k.a. Star Items upon clearing a Boss "Phase"
  • Shooting (un)focused
  • Bombing for Star Items (not recommended for Easy / Normal; penalty is too high)
  • And of course, Cherry Items

Star Item "value" for Cherry+ Points remains constant. That means you can theoretically copy the Japanese scorerun techniques, without the supergrazing and still manage to time all your borders around those "critical" points. All you have to do is note when they end each phase, and when they use focused or unfocused shots throughout their run.

If the memorization is too much (it looks like a lot already), I recommend just waiting for the maximum number of bullets to appear on-screen before ending each Spell Card / Boss Attack to maximize the number of Borders.

Specifically in your replay, the only really poorly timed border (or lack of a border) is at the start of Stage 6 (where you bombed). It might be a good idea to do intentionally break a Border during Boss!Youmu (or sometime before if you plan that far ahead) to control the Border timings a bit. Or, you can control the Border timing by firing focused. You should aim to end Stage 5 with 40-45k Cherry+ Points towards your next border.

You also "missed" a potential Border for Stage 2 where you could graze the bullets to increase the CherryMax, which will boost your score by a large amount considering that Stage 4 has tons of Point Items for you to collect.

Just so you know, I only know the basics and the general outline of PCB scoring tactics, and not the really specific details of it.

Overall, these two points are probably the most notable flaws in your scorerun (in terms of achieving a High Score):

  • Border timing on Stage 62
  • Border timing for Stage 5-6 transition

There are also minor errors here and there (moving down from the PoC a bit too early mostly), but they don't add up compared to these two points.

Advice was given with supergrazing not in mind.

[Edit: Excuse the double post. Sorry.]
No need to worry about it. It's better than putting 2 huge walls of text into one post, especially when they're directed at different topics (games) and other people.

I'll finish off Donut's skill analysis tomorrow morning (I'm having trouble thinking of the right words to use to describe his skill and style). That run made me "cry" a lot due to the lack of PoC usage between Spell Cards.

Wow, my workload just decreased by a large amount.

EDIT:
Byakuren's last non-spell: This is another one that I prefer to just bomb. I usually stay below her, then when she moves towards the bottom, bomb and stay at the bottom of the screen.
While it appears to be one beast of an attack, it actually is one of the easiest attacks in the entire Stage if you know how to do it. It consists of static bullets and aimed bullets. So learn path, and stick with it. Note that it does repeat itself over and over. It's still easy to make a mistake and randomly ram into bullets (or something) though.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2009, 09:46:49 AM by Baity »
[16:25] <Kuruminut> Shut up MS Word, "fangirlism" is totally a word
<>
[07:59] <Sapz> ベーティさんは馬鹿っぽいだろう、この「っぽい」好き者