This thread started out as halloween then BDSM then gendertalk then states

[helvetica]

Also this thread went seriously gay seriously fast.

And the worst part?  I hadn't even posted in it yet :[

Also what the hell is with all you weirdos now breaking into my territory >:|  I thought I was the messed up one in the head :<

[Jana]

I'm looking forward to seeing your enlightening posts in the morning, TSO~

...It's been a very interesting topic. Not only do I feel like I learned a lot, but I even have new things to question myself on! Hooray!

[Matsuri]

I thought I was the messed up one in the head :<

$50 says everyone here is messed up in the head in some way.  :V

[Hello Purvis]

Yeah, if there's anyone here that doesn't have some kind of issues or madnesses, I'd be hella surprised.

[Nobu]

That guy looks like he has a baby trying to break free of his crotch. O_o

Normal people are boring, and I doubt you'd find any around these parts anyway. Sorry for breaking in. :V

[helvetica]

I dunno what else to say on the subject of gender roles than what I've described about me.  Gender is basically the outward appearance you choose to show society.  We are designed as binary creatures physically and it's only natural to have 2 rather different "genders" and for a lot of people it's a lot easier to drift towards one "norm" than to blaze their own.

That's definitely the case for me.  How I sum things up is I'd rather be a tomboyish girl than a girly boy, as I feel I can shift my identity over a little to match an acceptable "girl" than say stick out as a strange guy.  I actually applaud people like Nobu who have the tenacity and self-confidence to be able to say "you know what, I conform to neither, and wish to be just me" and are able to live on the sliding scale of gender identity rather than fit into the notches like most people.

If I didn't have such a strong and vehement hatred of being a "manly man" and had the courage to just be me and ignore society's judgment, I'd probably just be a really girly gay guy.  I don't outright hate having a penis, it's... a detatched indifference, kind of like an appendix.  Something that doesn't really bother me but serves no purpose physically.  Honestly what I get between my legs I would actually most likely leave up to my partner as really it's for their enjoyment =P

As for BDSM... well I'm terrified of bondage and I'm definitely not the domineering type but Trance has definitely enlightened me to it as more of a way for couples to express total trust and faith in eachother in ways just jamming it in don't do.  And it has little to do with pain either, as I hate inflicting pain on others nor would I want pain inflicted on me.  Pain and bondage may be the most graphic and well, most "unique", way to practice it, it's hardly the only way.  If anything the way BDSM works for me and Trance is I would crossdress him and doll him up and make him do my biddings in that manner :3

It's less about what you use and what you do, and more how you approach your relationship.  And honestly BDSM just gets singled out because it seems so extreme compared to "normal" couple interaction, but if anything it's nothing different, same roles and same objective, just different toys used =P

[helvetica]

Also Internet Dating

[Matsuri]

I might as well throw my thoughts out here.

I'm a guy and well, I'm fine with it, but I guess I never grasped onto the concept of masculinity. While it's absolutely unnoticeable in the way I present myself in person, I tend to lean a little bit toward the effeminate side. It's how I've always been, really. It's more noticeable online, I suppose-- where I tend to use more girly usernames and avatars and such-- but I suppose in person I'm more androgynous than anything. My voice (when I don't force it to sound more masculine) is often mistaken for a female's (especially on the phone) and somehow, I've been mistaken for a girl once or twice in my time.

Either way, I'm fine with who I am, I suppose, but I'd be lying if I never entertained the thought of 'what if I was born female?'. I wonder if I'd be much different compared to how I am now.

Bleh, I confuse myself wondering about these kinds of things more often than not. I am me-- isn't that good enough?

As for the BDSM stuff... I haven't even had the chance to experience the basic stuff yet. Baby steps, now. 

[Jana]

Ahahahahahaha~ Silly internet dating!

Um, I ended up not going right to bed. So yeah. Interesting definition for BDSM... I could roll with that, sort of. Oh, and I miss seeing Trance around all the time too...

Cut by Matsuri: Hey, your voice is probably sort of like mine. I get confused as a woman on the phone too.

I guess I'll think on it while trying to fall asleep. Maybe I'll have something worthwhile in the morning.

[helvetica]

GJ Kilga :V

[Kilgamayan]

Clearly that was Edible's fault.

[Nobu]

It's a little bit easier to be myself when i'm on the internet and can choose who to associate with, but most people familiar with me at least have an idea of my androgynous/feminine tendencies. I don't particularly hide it that well, nor do I attempt to put up a facade of unnatural masculinity. But thanks TSO. ^^ I think I might be able to pull it off somehow because i'm pretty sociable and outgoing in person to counterbalance the strangeness some people might feel.

Yeah, BDSM is really an umbrella term that can be used to refer to almost any alternative sex act that doesn't fall into the monogamous post-marriage vanilla missionary sex for the sole purpose of procreation. Also..

If anything the way BDSM works for me and Trance is I would crossdress him and doll him up and make him do my biddings in that manner :3

This made me :3 for a good long time.

[Hououin Kyouma]

you guys started talking about BDSM without me. ;_;

anyway, BDSM is my favourite fetish. I personally find it weird but at the same time I am fascinated by it

[Nobu]

Hah, what part of BDSM specifically? Saying you fetish over BDSM is almost like saying you fetish over sex.

Also, this thread inspired me to make a sig. :3

[Hououin Kyouma]

Nobu:... No wonder you got an IP position

[Tengukami]

I am very pleased with the turn this thread has taken. Good on you guys for having an open mind.

My own thoughts, as a dom: the sub has a crucial power in the dynamic - establishing the boundaries. A true dom abides them, but should also understand that ecstacy for both dom and sub is derived from playing right up against these boundaries, often pushing them, without crossing them. Hence safe words. It's crucial not just in restraint and punishment but in the entire dom/sub dynamic. (cont.)

[Pesco]

Nobu:... No wonder you got an IP position

Nobu got IP prior to this thread. My judgement was good.

[Tengukami]

To me, restraint and punishment is fun, but the real heart of the dynamic is emotional - playing on and with the sub's eagerness to please. Verbal "abuse" is a part of that. Consider it consentual manipulation. Playing on a sub's psychological weak points to bring on that sweet humiliation but, again, staying on and pushing against boundaries without crossing them. Done right it's ecstatic, but it takes real honesty to build it.

[Dizzy H. "Muffin" Muffin]

Hmm. I fear that I can fap to am interested in the concept, and I suppose I'll have to try out something IRL at some point, but I wouldn't want to live it. I don't fit in among people for whom being a kitten isn't just for Christmas, so to speak.

[Bias Bus]

BDSM?

Dunno, never messed with that stuff and truthfully I'd rather not be in such a situation. To me, I'd get really peeved, really fast to have someone hitting me and shit not, but that only applies since I'm not really turned on by it, I guess. I suppose if I were in fact aroused by BDSM I wouldn't mind that aspect...but since I'm not, well there it is.

[Menorah Jams, Pham]

Funny how a bunch of people seem to be reading the topic, but only a few of us are posting... Maybe they're all catching up?

Can't speak for anyone else, but I'm not posting because I have nothing to contribute. This is simply fascinating reading material.

Yeah, this is pretty much my reason for the lack of posting as well. :x

This

I may not be into what youse guys are into and a lot of it to me is not something I could experience or be a part of, but dammit, I support you guys 100%.  I love you all and whatever brings you in touch with yourself (giggity) is all good as long as it does no harm. 

Viva!

[Matsuri]

Nobu:... No wonder you got an IP position

Nobu got IP prior to this thread. My judgementmindhax was good.

Fixed.

How else did you see something like this coming?

[Nobu]

Hmm. I fear that I can fap to am interested in the concept, and I suppose I'll have to try out something IRL at some point, but I wouldn't want to live it. I don't fit in among people for whom being a kitten isn't just for Christmas, so to speak.

Well, there's all kinds of different lifestyles depending on how adventurous you and who you find to have fun with; it doesn't have to occupy a major part of your life if you don't want it to. :3 Some people seek out specific clubs/communities and make it a major part, others just dabble mostly with their loved ones or a few people they know. I'm closer to the latter. Normally in the bedroom I'm pretty submissive, though it can fluxuate with mood, but you'd never guess just based on how I act in public.

@Shinki: I'm one of those subs that dislike pain/hitting, it's more common than you think. I'm into restraint, bondage, being overpowered 'against one's will', and the like. I honestly kinda wish I liked pain so I can be more accommodating to my dom who likes giving pain, but she respects my wishes.


.... I didn't see this coming either. x_x Nor did I initially intend on revealing so many intimate details in a short period of time. This was a Halloween thread for god's sake!


I'm not really complaining though. :3

[Greyn]

Funny how a bunch of people seem to be reading the topic, but only a few of us are posting... Maybe they're all catching up?

Can't speak for anyone else, but I'm not posting because I have nothing to contribute. This is simply fascinating reading material.

I concur.  This thread is most delicious.

And I must admit I do feel quite a bit of envy over other peoples relationships...

[Tengukami]

Well, there's all kinds of different lifestyles depending on how adventurous you and who you find to have fun with; it doesn't have to occupy a major part of your life if you don't want it to. :3 Some people seek out specific clubs/communities and make it a major part, others just dabble mostly with their loved ones or a few people they know. I'm closer to the latter. Normally in the bedroom I'm pretty submissive, though it can fluxuate with mood, but you'd never guess just based on how I act in public.

@Shinki: I'm one of those subs that dislike pain/hitting, it's more common than you think. I'm into restraint, bondage, being overpowered 'against one's will', and the like. I honestly kinda wish I liked pain so I can be more accommodating to my dom who likes giving pain, but she respects my wishes.

Speaking for myself, as a dom I'm not much for inflicting a great deal of pain, either. Restraint, slapping, spanking - all fine. I really think "verbal abuse" and other psychological forms of domination can bring on a far sweeter humiliation than strikes with a leather strap. But again, it depends on the preferences of both the sub and the dom/me - I wouldn't be too concerned that you don't accommodate your domme enough. As the sub, you define the limits and she, as a responsible domme, must respect them. If she's committed to you then she must be satisfied with your service. Although I admire your striving for perfection in that regard; all good subs and dom/mes should.

[Gpop]

BDSM?

You forgot me.

[UncertainJakutten]

I dunno what else to say on the subject of gender roles than what I've described about me.  Gender is basically the outward appearance you choose to show society.

I was under the impression gender was the innate sense of your identity as male/female/other, not how you presented. Presentation is just that, presentation. Are you saying that drag queens are girls when they present female, even if they have a strong male identity?

I am very pleased with the turn this thread has taken. Good on you guys for having an open mind.

My own thoughts, as a dom: the sub has a crucial power in the dynamic - establishing the boundaries. A true dom abides them, but should also understand that ecstacy for both dom and sub is derived from playing right up against these boundaries, often pushing them, without crossing them. Hence safe words. It's crucial not just in restraint and punishment but in the entire dom/sub dynamic. (cont.)

Oddly enough that's the part I dislike most. I realize the sub has the power...and I don't want it. But, I do my best to limit my power as best I can, though even in the decision process I exert a little of that power in picking a master.

To me, restraint and punishment is fun, but the real heart of the dynamic is emotional - playing on and with the sub's eagerness to please. Verbal "abuse" is a part of that. Consider it consentual manipulation. Playing on a sub's psychological weak points to bring on that sweet humiliation but, again, staying on and pushing against boundaries without crossing them. Done right it's ecstatic, but it takes real honesty to build it.

And yes...this is basically the complete right of it . I love being humiliated...it's one of the few things that can bring me to tears.

Hmm. I fear that I can fap to am interested in the concept, and I suppose I'll have to try out something IRL at some point, but I wouldn't want to live it. I don't fit in among people for whom being a kitten isn't just for Christmas, so to speak.

Ooh, being a kitten? Petplay IS fun if you don't take it to furry levels (insert obligatory "not that there's anything wrong with that")

Speaking for myself, as a dom I'm not much for inflicting a great deal of pain, either. Restraint, slapping, spanking - all fine. I really think "verbal abuse" and other psychological forms of domination can bring on a far sweeter humiliation than strikes with a leather strap. But again, it depends on the preferences of both the sub and the dom/me - I wouldn't be too concerned that you don't accommodate your domme enough. As the sub, you define the limits and she, as a responsible domme, must respect them. If she's committed to you then she must be satisfied with your service. Although I admire your striving for perfection in that regard; all good subs and dom/mes should.

Yes...well...I do try to be the perfect sub as best I can. I enjoy pain a lot, but I also enjoy verbal abuse and humiliation and the like...really...I can meld to most reasonable things a dom would want from me. Of course, my definition of reasonable can stretch the term quite a bit. I mostly don't go to the crazy extremes (permanent injury, scat, furry, etc.) Of course, being inexperienced I don't know everything I will or won't do yet.

[Bias Bus]

@Shinki: I'm one of those subs that dislike pain/hitting, it's more common than you think. I'm into restraint, bondage, being overpowered 'against one's will', and the like. I honestly kinda wish I liked pain so I can be more accommodating to my dom who likes giving pain, but she respects my wishes.


.... I didn't see this coming either. x_x Nor did I initially intend on revealing so many intimate details in a short period of time. This was a Halloween thread for god's sake!


I'm not really complaining though. :3

Well, now I know that I ain't. Dunno if that's good or not, but whatever.

I know I'm a sub even without the BDSM stuff to tell me so. In my case, being sub doesn't stem from being overpowered, bounded, etc. This comes from my apathy of what others may say, or do, to me.

"If it makes you happy then go ahead and do it, I don't mind."

The above is basically what I will say to those who wish to do stuff with me. In hindsight, I'm open for many things in the fetish department, I usually don't mind any of the stuff people will try and will play along with it so long as they get a charge outta it. Even if it's something I don't particularly like, if it's someone I know then I'll put my preferances aside and do it for them. Although I will voice my distaste for something if it really puts me off or it causes me discomfort in someway, I do have my standards and stuff y'know.

Also I find it amusing how we pulled this out of Halloween, but reading up on the topic from page one, it's actually an understandable change.

[Nobu]

Gender has a variety of definitions, the generally accept Psych definition is more along the lines of 'the set of behaviors or role attributed to those of a certain physical sex'. Some societies have more than the binary male/female gender roles in society for intersexed, trans, ladyboys, whathaveyou. Gender roles are learned, sex is innate. (In that sense I think the term *Gender* dysphoria is kinda off, since you can identify as the female gender but still be content with a male body.) The concepts of gender and sex are very complex.

I'm sure there are avenues you can explore that allow you to surrender more and more of your power while still feeling safe. And hey, when you get to subspace you tend to forget you still have power. =)

Can we be friends UK? Pretty please? ^___^

[UncertainJakutten]

Gender has a variety of definitions, the generally accept Psych definition is more along the lines of 'the set of behaviors or role attributed to those of a certain physical sex'.

I'm...going to have to pull out a couple books to argue against that if I'm remembering correctly.

Gender roles are learned, sex is innate.

Gender ROLES are learned, but gender itself is innate from what I understand. And sex is the biological side.

I'm sure there are avenues you can explore that allow you to surrender more and more of your power while still feeling safe. And hey, when you get to subspace you tend to forget you still have power. =)

I hope so. I mean, I'm sure you're right

Can we be friends UK? Pretty please? ^___^

Of course.