Author Topic: UNL Tiers (Read 26128 times)

Runty · « **on:** September 17, 2009, 04:25:18 PM »

I know it might be a little early for this, but I'm still curious. Has a competitive tier list been made yet for UNL?

If not, we might as well use this topic to discuss some tier placement. Take note, though, that I don't play fighting games (aside from Smash Bros) and as such don't know the mechanics that well.

I'm pretty sure, however, that public opinion will place Youmu at the top, since she wasn't really nerfed in UNL.

Esoterica · « **Reply #1 on:** September 17, 2009, 04:32:11 PM »

There's a Japanese tier list out there somewhere, but I neglected to save it.

Off the top of my head, I remember top tier went Suika - Patchouli (I have a hard time believing this) - Iku - Youmu, Okuu's mid tier, and the rest of the newbies are low tier (except Suwako, who is currently placing worse than IaMP Meiling competitively).

I'll see if I can locate the full list.

Chainsaw Guitar · « **Reply #2 on:** September 17, 2009, 04:42:08 PM »

There's only one requirement to being high tier in UNL: DP

Runty · « **Reply #3 on:** September 17, 2009, 04:44:23 PM »

Quote from: Freudia Neuwahl on September 17, 2009, 04:32:11 PM

There's a Japanese tier list out there somewhere, but I neglected to save it.

Off the top of my head, I remember top tier went Suika - Patchouli (I have a hard time believing this) - Iku - Youmu, Okuu's mid tier, and the rest of the newbies are low tier (except Suwako, who is currently placing worse than IaMP Meiling competitively).

I'll see if I can locate the full list.

Really? I would've thought that Youmu's nasty melee mixups would easily make her top tier. But Suika? I know she hits hard, but isn't she also slow? And what about Aya? Wasn't she second place in SWR?

As for Okuu, sure, I can believe her being mid-tier. She's big and doesn't move, and has lousy melee, all in exchange for ranged nukes (literally). As for Suwako, yeah, she's too screwed up to be a serious fighter.

What about China? Where does she place in this?

Esoterica · « **Reply #4 on:** September 17, 2009, 04:57:29 PM »

Actually, Aya was top in SWR. Her damage output and a few of her default specials were nerfed considerably, in exchange for marginally faster movement speed. Suika got a damage buff (why the hell they did that is beyond me) which easily made her top tier.

If I remember correctly, Meiling's near the bottom of low tier. She got buffed in some aspects, but she still lacks offensive bullets and graze attacks, plus her melee range is pitiful.

Runty · « **Reply #5 on:** September 17, 2009, 05:05:43 PM »

Quote from: Freudia Neuwahl on September 17, 2009, 04:57:29 PM

Actually, Aya was top in SWR. Her damage output and a few of her default specials were nerfed considerably, in exchange for marginally faster movement speed. Suika got a damage buff (why the hell they did that is beyond me) which easily made her top tier.

If I remember correctly, Meiling's near the bottom of low tier. She got buffed in some aspects, but she still lacks offensive bullets and graze attacks, plus her melee range is pitiful.

I guess I shouldn't have expected otherwise. China will always be China, after all.

Chainsaw Guitar · « **Reply #6 on:** September 17, 2009, 05:21:43 PM »

... The fuck?. Since when did having short range make you low tier?. And since when did being low tier make you a joke character?.

Esoterica · « **Reply #7 on:** September 17, 2009, 05:30:30 PM »

Found the list. I translated it (left) and organized it (right) with tiers based on the largest breaks in percentage.

The numbers are the percent of matchups won in competitive play.

Runty · « **Reply #8 on:** September 17, 2009, 05:33:51 PM »

Quote from: Freudia Neuwahl on September 17, 2009, 05:30:30 PM

Found the list. I translated it (left) and organized it (right) with tiers based on the largest breaks in percentage.

The numbers are the percent of matchups won in competitive play.

WHAT?! Sakuya's almost bottom tier? How the hell did that happen?

Ouch on Suwako's low win rate. And I'd have thought Cirno would do better in all this. Oh well, poor 9-ball.

Chainsaw Guitar · « **Reply #9 on:** September 17, 2009, 05:40:21 PM »

Quote from: Runty on September 17, 2009, 05:33:51 PM

Quote from: Freudia Neuwahl on September 17, 2009, 05:30:30 PM
Found the list. I translated it (left) and organized it (right) with tiers based on the largest breaks in percentage.

The numbers are the percent of matchups won in competitive play.

WHAT?! Sakuya's almost bottom tier? about time that happened!

Fixed. :toot:

Esoterica · « **Reply #10 on:** September 17, 2009, 05:46:07 PM »

Quote from: Runty on September 17, 2009, 05:33:51 PM

WHAT?! Sakuya's almost bottom tier? How the hell did that happen?

-low damage output
-knives increase both proration and limit by ungodly amounts
-despite what you'd think, most of her attacks are laggy and punishable
-all-around useless spellcards (the new ones are quite nice though)
-Strict timing on combos

Just to name a few.

...though all of these problems existed in SWR too and she ended up rather high on that list...

Runty · « **Reply #11 on:** September 17, 2009, 05:47:07 PM »

Quote from: Chainsaw Guitar on September 17, 2009, 05:40:21 PM

Quote from: Runty on September 17, 2009, 05:33:51 PM
Quote from: Freudia Neuwahl on September 17, 2009, 05:30:30 PM
Found the list. I translated it (left) and organized it (right) with tiers based on the largest breaks in percentage.

The numbers are the percent of matchups won in competitive play.

WHAT?! Sakuya's almost bottom tier? about time that happened!

Fixed. :toot:

Jerkass...

Dang, and Sakuya's so nasty in IaMP. Then again, so was Remilia.

Chainsaw Guitar · « **Reply #12 on:** September 17, 2009, 05:56:45 PM »

Tierwhore...

Any match involving Sakuya is boring unless they epicly fail with timestop.

Stuffman · « **Reply #13 on:** September 17, 2009, 06:01:42 PM »

I'm a bit impressed at Patch's jump from low tier in IaMP, what happened in SWR to make her better (especially given it's EASIER to get out of bullet pressure than before)?

Also, hey, Yukari's not on that list. Is she Gapped Tier?

Esoterica · « **Reply #14 on:** September 17, 2009, 06:07:46 PM »

There are two things about the tier list that jump out at me the most.

-Being a Suwako main, I don't think I'll need to worry about her getting nerfed :V

-Whenever I use Patch and win, I can expect a response along the lines of "you only won because your character is top tier bawwwwwwww".

In short, I'm going to miss bottom tier Patch :<

@ Stuffman: I'm as confused as you are. She burns through spirit faster thanks to the orb system, she doesn't have tornados anymore, and she was low tier in SWR too.

nacho · « **Reply #15 on:** September 17, 2009, 06:14:38 PM »

Quote from: Freudia Neuwahl

The numbers are the percent of matchups won in competitive play.

That list, as far as I know, took all different player levels into account, and is nowhere near a tier list made by "competitive high-level players". When I look at it, it's more like a list of how easy a character is to play rather than how strong a character is in comparison to the whole cast - just look at Suwako's placement and go figure.

Also, Yukari missing.

Esoterica · « **Reply #16 on:** September 17, 2009, 06:16:26 PM »

Quote from: Stuffman

Also, hey, Yukari's not on that list. Is she Gapped Tier?

She was hiding from me, I had to reread the list a few times :x

51%, just like Reisen.

nacho: Though that'd make sense for Suwako and Patch, the rest lines up in relation to the SWR list with buffs/nerfs considered. For example, Tenshi isn't easy to play (unless you're a fan of LOLROCKS), and she got quite a few nice buffs. Hence, she moved up on the list. Aya's still as brainless as before and she's mid tier now.

Alfred F. Jones · « **Reply #17 on:** September 17, 2009, 10:42:59 PM »

Ugh. The idea of "tier lists" makes me gag on sight. (I've spent too much time in the Meltan community.) But I'm also one for YAY! DISCUSSION! so I'm going to post this:

And now, to hack it to pieces with help from a friend's analysis.

This is that stupid chart from /jp/ that started this whole thing. It's an aggregate of every match done on the ranked server there-- ie: including garbage players.

Suwako is hard to use. I WONDER WHY SHE'S LOW

So basically that entire chart is completely worthless. It's like an ease of use chart. It has no relevance on character balance. Give it some time, wait for them to come up with a chart that includes only the top such-and-such % of players.

This happened with SWR too, by the way. Reisen was trash tier for the first few months, then people started figuring the game out and she jumped three tiers - but only on the charts that included the top 30% of players. She still stunk for the global chart.

Rikter · « **Reply #18 on:** September 17, 2009, 10:59:56 PM »

Quote from: Rurogi Shiki on September 17, 2009, 10:42:59 PM

"Massive Chart"

This is that stupid chart from /jp/ that started this whole thing. It's an aggregate of every match done on the ranked server there-- ie: including garbage players.

EVERYONE LETS GO AND MAKE SUWAKO TOP TEIR VIA PURPOSELY LOSING TO SUWAKO!

Ok just kidding.

According to this innacurate list aside from Suika I like using Low or Mid Tier characters and as for Suwako... I would be suprised if I ever saw her higher than worst on a Tier List.

cleartailcat · « **Reply #19 on:** September 17, 2009, 11:24:57 PM »

Suwako should get her own unranked tier. My winning rate is 52.8% with her, though the players I fight are no where near top players.

N-Forza · « **Reply #20 on:** September 18, 2009, 01:16:07 AM »

That Iku/Yuyuko match-up is bullcrap. I play a really good Iku and I have a friend who plays a really good Yuyuko and he owns me 95% of the time.

Also, I'm sad that Sakuya is so bad and Aya was nerfed. Cirno is right about where she should be.

Esoterica · « **Reply #21 on:** September 18, 2009, 01:36:00 AM »

Quote from: N-Forza

That Iku/Yuyuko match-up is bullcrap. I play a really good Iku and I have a friend who plays a really good Yuyuko and he owns me 95% of the time.

Iku's C bullets (among other things) completely devour her butterflies, and Iku's melee and 236/623 outclass Yuyuko's in terms of range. Thus, Yuyuko's remaining options are:

A. j.2A and hope you don't eat a 2C, 22 or 623

B. Spam C wisps

C. Sword of Hisou to force a Typhoon, which Iku can still guard during by using her 623.

Kuma · « **Reply #22 on:** September 18, 2009, 03:41:27 AM »

Tiers are for queers.

Chainsaw Guitar · « **Reply #23 on:** September 18, 2009, 05:20:04 AM »

Shut your goddamn mouth you scrub.

Esoterica · « **Reply #24 on:** September 18, 2009, 05:39:08 AM »

We're down to senseless name calling already?

We didn't even make it to page 2, dammit.

N-Forza · « **Reply #25 on:** September 18, 2009, 06:42:46 AM »

Quote from: Freudia Neuwahl on September 18, 2009, 01:36:00 AM

Iku's C bullets (among other things) completely devour her butterflies, and Iku's melee and 236/623 outclass Yuyuko's in terms of range.

Yeah, I learned recently that 5C works best, although I still habitually use 6C. Once I started using 5C more things improved quickly, but maybe it's just psycological for now. Also he spams C wisps a lot which is pretty annoying and up-close, Yuyuko's melee is faster, I think. There's a little bit of lag which might be making all the difference.

I think I just need to learn to QCF more reliably.

Runty · « **Reply #26 on:** December 13, 2009, 08:23:56 PM »

The tournament tier list is available. Actually, it's been available since Oct. 31.

Our glutton ghost princess got first place? Yay!

And our loli-frog goddess is still in dead last. Poor Suwako, gero...

Suikama · « **Reply #27 on:** December 13, 2009, 08:39:22 PM »

I knew Meiling was bad ._.

Won't stop me though <3

RainfallYoshi · « **Reply #28 on:** December 13, 2009, 08:47:29 PM »

Komachi is A-tier! Woohoo. My dreams have been fulfilled.

Grand Octopus · « **Reply #29 on:** December 13, 2009, 08:48:02 PM »

So the UNL characters make up 5 of the bottom 7? Huh.