On the 'split' in RaNGE regarding non-Touhou fan games

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Sparen:
To whom it may concern,

Recently, non-Touhou games made by members of the MotK forum have, under stricter enforcement of RaNGE board guidelines (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6181.0.html), been moved from RaNGE to Akyu's Arcade. This "Touhou-only" aspect to what was the primary forum board for programming and game creation here on MotK has a number of implications for all of the game designers who create games that are related to Touhou but aren't explicit fan games (i.e. a number of Danmakufu games inspired by Touhou that don't include Touhou characters, etc).

For example, we now have to fight for space with all of the discussion on commercial games on Akyu's Arcade, such as Splatoon, Fire Emblem, Pok?mon, etc. Akyu's Arcade seems to be specifically geared towards discussion on these types of games - explicitly non-Touhou games made by various companies mainly outside the doujin spectrum and discussion on events such as GDC and E3. Additionally, threads in Akyu's Arcade generally get updated frequently and the fact that our dev threads don't really fit in combined with our lower update frequency means that it will be hard to maintain a presence.

Next, this shift means that we'll be advertising and posting updates to our games on one forum board while asking questions and communicating with fellow programmers on their own projects on a very different board. Getting feedback therefore becomes harder, as we are more split up. In the past, if you needed help with danmaku patterns, you went to RaNGE - under the new system, if you have a Touhou-inspired game on Akyu's Arcade, the crowd that generally provides feedback on patterns won't be present in the same way and it will be much slower to receive feedback on design elements in general. I may be wrong about this, but people who provide feedback for danmaku projects don't usually check Akyu's Arcade for updates on danmaku projects.

Finally, on a side note, I remember back when I first visited the Art Atelier and was told that Danmaku as an art form didn't belong there - if this still holds, then it definitely doesn't belong in the board for Fire Emblem discussion. This is a continuation of the division of the danmaku sub community that I mentioned earlier.

My end request is some form of middle ground where we can post our projects without being kicked out of RaNGE entirely. A sub board under RaNGE for Touhou-inspired work, for example. I feel that this would be better for both the developers and potential testers/asset creators/collaborators than being placed in Akyu's Arcade, as it seems we can no longer remain in the main RaNGE board.

Thank you.

--Sparen of Iria

P.S. Yes, I know SeitenTouji is next to be moved to Akyu's Arcade, and after seeing a number of other Danmaku projects moved, I feel that I need to speak up.

Sparen:
Follow ups:

It seems that part of the issue here is that what constitutes a Touhou fan game + what the cutoff is for being allowed in RaNGE. If a game is based on/is a parody of Touhou and/or uses Touhou style mechanics or gameplay (such as Len'en), does it count as a Touhou fan game or a Touhou-inspired work? If it doesn't, should it still be allowed in RaNGE? Gusano's RoSM and my SeitenTouji are both Touhou inspired, but what allows my game to stay in RaNGE while Gusano's gets moved? What is the cutoff? If there is a cutoff being used by the moderators, it should be clearly explained as to what is allowed in RaNGE.

Additionally, in regards to RaNGE itself, why have a 'Touhou-only' policy to begin with? Bulletforge has become more open, with a large variety of non-Touhou scripts released, and historically, RaNGE has been home to things completely unrelated to Touhou (e.g. Self-insert scripts, danmaku for non-Touhou characters, etc.). Is a middle ground truly needed, or does it make logical sense to categorize threads when a game designer has both Touhou and non-Touhou interests?

Finally, though this is a reiteration of what I said before, MotK is one of the few places where we can reach our target audience and having our threads in Akyu's Arcade essentially "banishes them to obscurity."
To quote Awalys:
"Basically, if your fangame thread ends up in Akyu's Arcade, you might as well just give up at that point."

I've made the existence of this thread known to other fan game designers. Hopefully we can get some discussion going.

WishMakers:
As someone who is currently only making Touhou scripts, while this may not necessarily be pertinent to me, it shuns everything that can even be remotely similar to Touhou. For example, why wasn't Len'en boss rush banned on sight? It's not Touhou according to the definition. But Len'en is a Touhou-style game. Much like Seitentouji and Gusano's series. There is some personality to these games that doesn't make it "just another shmup or bullethell". If it was a CAVE-like shmup style, maybe. But in their current state, they are Touhou-related, especially with DNH primarily geared toward Touhou-like games anyway. If there really is a problem with these games, we should make a sub-forum like "Touhou projects" already exists for strictly non-Touhou fan-games. I have a feeling Akyu's Arcade won't be incredibly happy with all these new types of posts and certainly will not give the feedback necessary for these projects to grow and prosper. Also, what about those RaNGE contests that clearly wanted characters that didn't originate in Touhou?

I come to RaNGE most days and am delighted to see fangames and scripts, no matter the "universe" they belong to. If there is going to be such a problem with a minute detail such as this, then we have a problem. RaNGE is a place for us coders to share our projects and grow as coders and as people (no matter how corny that sounds). My point is that we as a community shouldn't be so divided over such a small detail, and RaNGE should be open to these types of games. We may have found each other through Touhou, but that doesn't mean tastes change a little bit and we can't make our games our own. Like I said prior, if we want to keep the main RaNGE page to strictly Touhou, that's ok, so long as we have a place within RaNGE that supports these other projects instead of dumping them somewhere else and leaving them for dead.

iVAwalys:
I absolutely agree. If they seriously wanted to make that kind of change, they should've done it much earlier. It's too late for that now. Almost everyone who's looking for shmup indies searches for them in RaNGE, and not anywhere else. The forum should adapt to the community, not the other way around.

At the very goddamn least, make a subforum for general shmup indies and fangames inside RaNGE. That kind of change would benefit the both sides and would come at no cost.

WishMakers:

--- Quote ---At the very goddamn least, make a subforum for general shmup indies and fangames inside RaNGE. That kind of change would benefit the both sides and would come at no cost.
--- End quote ---

This. 100% this.

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