Author Topic: Fire Emblem: Fates - More waifu, more husbando, more sales! (Read 95008 times)

?q · « **Reply #300 on:** July 22, 2016, 10:44:03 AM »

Quote from: Purvis

Is it just me, or do the levels they give seem to be mediocre? I had a bunch of them advance the kids to level 7 in their master class, and they all lagged statwise behind similarly leveled first gens.

I'm pretty sure it's average stats. With that said, the kids' growths are averaged with their variable parents' growths, so it's not at all unexpected for them to come out mediocre, especially if there's a mismatch in good stats (e.g. Felicia mothering a physical unit).

IMO the real benefit of kids is giving them silly Skills they otherwise couldn't get without a lot of effort (or couldn't at all). Poison Strike+Savage Blow+Draconic Hex Kana was kind of fun.

Quote from: Mea

I've read that the invasions don't scale and you can keep them around until you want to do them, is that true? That would be really convenient later in an emergency if I really need levels.

This is true, but the longer you wait the less experience you'll get from them. It's safer and doesn't really cost much to wait a Chapter after you first unlock the Invasion so that your stats are better. Paralogue 1 is the same.

---

@Hikari, for Ch. 13:

Spoiler:

Also, making sure this is out there, the Tonics you buy at the Staff Store are amazing. You'll run out of money if you try to stat up everyone on everything but Speed and Defense Tonics in particular can make a huge difference.

---

@CF7: If a child unit is an enemy in their paralogue, you can (and have to) kill them and they will join you after the Chapter. (This is not the case with Ally units!)

If you use him, let me know how Kumagera works out. I've never used him and based on stats it looks like he'll get doubled a bunch lategame on Enemy Phase but his Skill set is the stuff of trolling dreams.

CF7 · « **Reply #301 on:** July 22, 2016, 11:02:31 AM »

Quote from: ?q on July 22, 2016, 10:44:03 AM

@CF7: If a child unit is an enemy in their paralogue, you can kill them and they will join you after the Chapter. (This is not the case with Ally units!)

If you use him, let me know how Kumagera works out. I've never used him and based on stats it looks like he'll get doubled a bunch lategame on Enemy Phase but his Skill set is the stuff of trolling dreams.

What.
Okay, that definitely makes it easier. Actually a lot easier.

On Kamugera, i don't have enough food to bribe him, but i'll try to use him, when he's finally out of prison.

Edit: Also it's kind of hilarious, how any male unit supported by Corrin (Supportive) and backed by Elise (Lily's Poise + Demoiselle) makes an amazing tank. Amount of damage mitigation you get that way is just ridiculous. IIRC Scarlet in ch 13 attacked Jakob under these conditions and she only did 2 damage to him.

?q · « **Reply #302 on:** July 22, 2016, 11:10:09 AM »

Quote from: CF7 on July 22, 2016, 11:02:31 AM

On Kamugera, i don't have enough food to bribe him, but i'll try to use him, when he's finally out of prison.

The Bribe costs in this game are unreal. If you want a prisoner as early as possible you basically have to stop making progress for a while until you take a few cycles to Persuade them out. (Ingame time moves forward six hours after your last save - and does not accumulate, so it actually involves not playing the game for six hours - or after you complete a map.)

CF7 · « **Reply #303 on:** July 23, 2016, 10:44:01 AM »

Atrocius, disgusting, NOT FUN. Twisty corridors filled with ninjas. Sapping stats of my units (and my motivation to play) every turn. Guess what chapter i am playing...

On the other hand Kumagera is amazing and really pulls his own weight the moment you manage to get him out of prison. Hitting those pesky ninjas with with almost 100% accuracy. Also tanky. Also that same 100% hit rate transfers to support attacks. And that's for an ax user with high attack. Holy shit. Wish he could support with my units.

?q · « **Reply #304 on:** July 23, 2016, 12:36:58 PM »

Quote from: CF7 on July 23, 2016, 10:44:01 AM

On the other hand Kumagera is amazing and really pulls his own weight the moment you manage to get him out of prison. Hitting those pesky ninjas with with almost 100% accuracy. Also tanky. Also that same 100% hit rate transfers to support attacks. And that's for an ax user with high attack. Holy shit. Wish he could support with my units.

He gets better, too.

Quote

Edit: Also it's kind of hilarious, how any male unit supported by Corrin (Supportive) and backed by Elise (Lily's Poise + Demoiselle) makes an amazing tank. Amount of damage mitigation you get that way is just ridiculous. IIRC Scarlet in ch 13 attacked Jakob under these conditions and she only did 2 damage to him.

This is the way of the Munchkin. Cheesing up Def when you really need it is a huge deal in several maps (including the one you're playing) where you need to take on a bunch of poison/debuff enemies at once.

To give an idea of how far you can go with this (Ch. 7)...

Spoiler:

...and that's how on your second playthrough you can show the game no mercy for what it did to you on your first playthrough.

CF7 · « **Reply #305 on:** July 23, 2016, 02:20:49 PM »

Ch 17 cleared without casualties on my second try. Also got a Speedwing. That is not the map i would want to replay anytime soon.
Kotaro's stats, equipment and a tile he's sitting on are just too perfect. Freeze staff didn't work. Camilla (my only unit with Lunge i used during the map) was out of range to attack him. So i had to deal with his crazy high eva the fun way.

Quote from: ?q on July 23, 2016, 12:36:58 PM

This is the way of the Munchkin. Cheesing up Def when you really need it is a huge deal in several maps (including the one you're playing) where you need to take on a bunch of poison/debuff enemies at once.

I'd say this is not the way of the Munchkin, but rather a legit way to play, when playing Conquest on anything above Normal (not sure how much easier it is compared to Hard).

Still, it's the most fun i had playing a FE game in ages.

?q · « **Reply #306 on:** July 23, 2016, 04:37:50 PM »

Kotaro is an immense prick and putting him at the end of that Chapter is sadistic.
You cannot Lunge, Freeze, Entrap, or otherwise move units that have - Mov, like Kotaro and other stationary bosses. Other than Freeze, you can lower enemy Avo with Heartseeker and stat debuffs.

I wasn't trying to imply that stacking buffs isn't a legit way to play; "munchkin" may not have been the best term. I'm sorry if I came across as discrediting you.

In general Normal mode has slightly lower stats and very few Skills outside bosses (all Master Ninja have Poison Strike and some level-gimmick Skills are left in but that's about it). Lunatic has the same stats as Hard but engages in more trolling with enemy placement, Skills, and more.

Mеа · « **Reply #307 on:** July 23, 2016, 09:55:59 PM »

I found kotaro easy with azura+xander hit and run, what worried me was that bastard child of a swordsmaster with lunge that I couldn't bait out of that final room. Ai stupidity certainly helped though

commandercool · « **Reply #308 on:** July 23, 2016, 10:21:01 PM »

I died to Kotaro the first time I fought him on lunatic because I forgot he had a Flame Shuriken and tried to tank him with Xander. He killed me exactly too, had I had a single additional HP I would have been fine. Second time I just rushed him and didn't even worry about his buddies.

Mеа · « **Reply #309 on:** July 23, 2016, 10:30:06 PM »

Iunno, exp is too much of a limited, valuable resource for me to just ignore, especially since I don't need any more handicaps going in this blind and being inefficient early on.

commandercool · « **Reply #310 on:** July 23, 2016, 10:32:13 PM »

I've been ignoring a lot of shit on this run. Notably those guys,

Spoiler:

and

Spoiler:

. As a result my guys aren't quite capped, but they're mostly close going into the final chapter. I do have three filler units I haven't been leveling at all though in Percy as a dedicated Effie momma taxi, Shura as a dedicated supportbot, and Rallyman as Rallyman.

CF7 · « **Reply #311 on:** July 23, 2016, 10:50:00 PM »

Watching your carefully crafted plan crumble, like a house of cards, because somebody died to a 4% crit. Classic FE. I am not even mad. Or maybe i am. Just a little...

Quote from: commandercool on July 23, 2016, 10:21:01 PM

I died to Kotaro the first time I fought him on lunatic because I forgot he had a Flame Shuriken and tried to tank him with Xander. He killed me exactly too, had I had a single additional HP I would have been fine. Second time I just rushed him and didn't even worry about his buddies.

Saizo rushed him, for which i was wholly unprepared, because that left him with 2 HP. And i was like "Wait, wait, wait, don't die, please, don't die, please, please, please. Okay, he survived, now what?" Looking at Kotaro's stats, and mainly at your % to hit of your doods. "This is going to suck, isn't it..?"

commandercool · « **Reply #312 on:** July 24, 2016, 02:03:42 AM »

Alright, so my first endgame attempt was, unsurprisingly, a bust.

Spoiler:

Chapter 27 is so laughably easy as to basically just be a waste of my time. It would take some crazy, crazy RNG for me to lose a unit here provided that the order the maids Entrap your units in is fixed, and I'm pretty sure it is. I just lucky-ish and got a setup where all of my units easily win in the killboxed they get ported into, and Garon is a joke. It takes a while though unfortunately, which is going to be really irritating in the long run.

Endgame is a fucking mess though. The gimmick this time is that it's the same as on hard, but there are a ton of staff users with that skill that lets their debuff stack with Enfeeble staves. Hexing Rod too, not sure how the stacking with that works, but it's going to be a problem I think. I'm probably willing to let a lot of units die in this run, but I wouldn't prefer it obvs. Even with everyone on my team loaded up with an assload of tonics one tank getting nailed by three Enfeeble staves at once basically means they'll die before the end of the phase, and so far I couldn't figure out an easy setup to lure out more than one or two of the middle-map units at a time.

I have two Silence charges and I thiiiiiink two Rescue charges left, which should help mitigate the staff users some (although I don't really have a great choice for a unit who can rush a staff user down and one-shot them, but best option was Brave Axe Camilla and even after Niles and Rallyman rallies she still only had an ~85% hit chance per attack, and that's before any Enfeebles). I don't have the stage mapped out as far as exactly when I need to end it, so I feel like the solution is probably to go exactly as slow as the game will let me, but no slower. I guess that means I should just throw my next run by passing turns until I figure out when the really brutal reinforcement waves start to spawn, but that sounds like an annoying waste of time.

I certainly don't think it's impossible, but it's going to be pretty messy. Not sure what the priority for the staff users is as far as who they Enfeeble unfortunately. If I could bait them that would be super handy, but I don't know how to. I may end up just having to hide Corrin in somebody else until I get close enough to unload him on Takumi, but that sucks because he's super handy for clearing out the stage trash. Hmmm...

?q · « **Reply #313 on:** July 24, 2016, 02:48:18 AM »

Quote from: CF7 on July 23, 2016, 10:50:00 PM

Saizo rushed him, for which i was wholly unprepared, because that left him with 2 HP. And i was like "Wait, wait, wait, don't die, please, don't die, please, please, please. Okay, he survived, now what?" Looking at Kotaro's stats, and mainly at your % to hit of your doods. "This is going to suck, isn't it..?"

Saizo is the best person to go after Kotaro because 1) he can actually hit him, 2) he does good damage without killing him, 3) he debuffs Kotaro, 4) he can survive getting hit, 5) if he attacks and gets hit he triggers Pyrotechnics+Poison Strike, 6) if he gets hit he doesn't take debuffs, and 7) if he DOES die, better him than Xander.

@Mea: If you're worried about running low on EXP - which can definitely happen, so don't feel bad about it - consider setting up a child paralogue or two. It's pretty amazing how even one of those can turn your team around.

@commandercool:

Spoiler:

What class is your Corrin, anyway?

---

I'm trying another random reclass run on Lunatic to see how viable it is. As it turns out, trying to do Chapter 10 with four units (Fighter Corrin, Silas, Jakob, and Nyx) and Camilla's team is probably infeasible. :V Selena and Beruka just kind of die if enemies look at them. I guess I'm going to adjust the rules to "all units are free on Ch. 10 because screw that noise".

commandercool · « **Reply #314 on:** July 24, 2016, 03:50:16 AM »

Quote from: ?q on July 24, 2016, 02:48:18 AM

@commandercool:
Spoiler:
Hexing Rod doesn't stack. I think that Great Master doesn't actually have Inevitable End.
Enfeeble AI is generally pretty smart as they'll debuff someone, send someone who can kill them to attack, and if it fails they'll either debuff them further or try again with someone else. Freeze will generally target the person who they think has the highest priority of dying on Enemy Phase (usually the same person getting Enfeebled); if that logic doesn't work they pick someone through the process of .

Spoiler:

Quote from: ?q on July 24, 2016, 02:48:18 AM

What class is your Corrin, anyway?

Nohr Noble. Can't remember my talent honestly. Might be Mage. I went out of my way to make a Dragonstone+ tank Corrin since I thought I might need an extra tank. I was wrong though and actually ended up with way more physical tanks than I need, so Corrin has just ended up as a Levin Sword attacker. So I kind of fucked myself in that regard. I married Azura this run so I think that makes my partner seal classes Falcon Knight and Kinshi Knight?

I have this thing where I prefer to play the game with each major character having their canon class. I don't really like the idea of changing them too much since their class kind of fits them thematically, so I've never messed around with reclassing Corrin too much. I probably should at this point though, since my Corrin is level 18, which means I have everything I'm going to get from Nohr Noble and I still have room to get some more stuff.

Edit: Yeah, my talent was Mage. So I could go Sorcerer or Dark Knight. Despite the fact that I usually think Dark Knight sucks (lol Leo) it actually looks really fucking appealing right now. I gain +2 move, at least break even on every stat except skill, retain my sword proficiency, and get one passable ability and one pretty good ability. And I'm pretty sure there are no enemies in the last two stages with anti-mount weapons, so there's no risk there. Losing Dragonstone proficiency sucks a little, but since I only get one Dragonstone+ anyway I can just give it to Kana, and like I said I don't really need more physical tanks.

?q · « **Reply #315 on:** July 24, 2016, 04:47:08 AM »

Quote from: commandercool on July 24, 2016, 03:50:16 AM

Nohr Noble. Can't remember my talent honestly. Might be Mage. I went out of my way to make a Dragonstone+ tank Corrin since I thought I might need an extra tank. I was wrong though and actually ended up with way more physical tanks than I need, so Corrin has just ended up as a Levin Sword attacker. So I kind of fucked myself in that regard. I married Azura this run so I think that makes my partner seal classes Falcon Knight and Kinshi Knight?

I have this thing where I prefer to play the game with each major character having their canon class. I don't really like the idea of changing them too much since their class kind of fits them thematically, so I've never messed around with reclassing Corrin too much. I probably should at this point though, since my Corrin is level 18, which means I have everything I'm going to get from Nohr Noble and I still have room to get some more stuff.

Edit: Yeah, my talent was Mage. So I could go Sorcerer or Dark Knight. Despite the fact that I usually think Dark Knight sucks (lol Leo) it actually looks really fucking appealing right now. I gain +2 move, at least break even on every stat except skill, retain my sword proficiency, and get one passable ability and one pretty good ability. And I'm pretty sure there are no enemies in the last two stages with anti-mount weapons, so there's no risk there. Losing Dragonstone proficiency sucks a little, but since I only get one Dragonstone+ anyway I can just give it to Kana, and like I said I don't really need more physical tanks.

Those are the right classes off Azura...

I was wondering if you had Shadow Yato access (you do, so good); the last two bosses are super-painful without it since it ignores some of the effect of Dragonskin. Going Dark Knight gives you better Mov but if you're anywhere near Nohr Noble's Spd cap it's probably a bad trade (Nohr Noble's default cap is 32, Dark Knight's is 27, and ideally you want 31 if not 35 after stat-stacking so you can double the final boss).

The two Paladins in the main hall have Beast Killer.

commandercool · « **Reply #316 on:** July 24, 2016, 05:30:04 AM »

Huh, I didn't really account for caps since I just kind of assumed they would be taken into account when the stat changes are presented, but I guess it makes sense that they're not. God, Dark Knight... really sucks.

My Corrin's speed is 31 at level 18 and I'm pretty sure it will be capped by the time I'm done with chapter 27. That hits 38 after Speed Tonic and Rallyman, but I'd be kind of surprised if Rallyman made it that far into the stage and he's my only Rally Speed. So I may have to pair up with someone to double Endboss. Since a taxi seems like Corrin's best bet for getting to Endboss unEnfeebled anyway I may just have to plan on hiding him in Shigure.

CF7 · « **Reply #317 on:** July 24, 2016, 02:49:52 PM »

Stupid foxes. So i planned around their stupid illusion gimmick, i planned around Pass and kinda built a densive wall. And what foxes do? Methodically suicide 2 foxes against Corrin each time hurting her and then 3rd killed her. That's just such a dick move... Like i dunno. "Well, shit, i can't get to your weaker or mounted units, so enjoy your game over."

commandercool · « **Reply #318 on:** July 24, 2016, 05:17:48 PM »

So it occurs that I'm almost positive Endboss can be Enfeeble and Hexed, so I don't think I need to double up Corrin after all. Keeping him protected is still going to be a chore though so I may have to do it anyway.

Edit: Oh yeah, and everyone has +2 speed from the Mess Hall as well right now. I don't think that's enough to compensate for Dark Knight's horrible stats, but it should help Nohr Noble Corrin has a bit of room for error.

?q · « **Reply #319 on:** July 24, 2016, 06:36:11 PM »

Since Endgame is a separate Chapter from 27, Mess Hall boosts won't carry over.

The final boss can be Enfeebled/Dracohexed. If you can score one of those on them, the threshold for doubling goes down to 31, which is still high but a lot more manageable.

Spoiler:

---

Cleared Chapter 10 with my four super units and a bunch of base level scrubs. Niles is basically awesome. Nyxferatu was surprisingly adequate given that she dies if she ever misses at 87%. I got Camilla to axe Takumi in the face (with Dual Guard) because why not, but I would have needed another turn to actually take him out.

commandercool · « **Reply #320 on:** July 25, 2016, 03:24:56 AM »

Quote from: ?q on July 24, 2016, 06:36:11 PM

Since Endgame is a separate Chapter from 27, Mess Hall boosts won't carry over.

Oh. Shit. Well... Hmm.

Quote from: ?q on July 24, 2016, 06:36:11 PM

The final boss can be Enfeebled/Dracohexed. If you can score one of those on them, the threshold for doubling goes down to 31, which is still high but a lot more manageable.
Spoiler:
(Of course, the final boss also has Draconic Hex, so it turns into a wash if Corrin attacks first... but other units can take advantage of the lower Spd threshold.)

I have three Draconic Hex users, so I can send one of them in first. Shigure would definitely die though, so it would have to be Kana. I think she would be fine.

CF7 · « **Reply #321 on:** July 25, 2016, 09:20:20 AM »

Kitsune's map sure is FUN.
The stage is so deviously set up, it forces some sub-optimal plays. Lots of forest tiles, so you can't move your units efficiently. Half of kitsunes are super effective against horses and Keaton (while he is super effective against them, he can't survive more than 3 of them with Beast Bane as well.), which is like half of my effective army. Also due to Life and Death they can two round kill most of my non-tanky normal units and pretty much one hit kill most of my mounted units. Add Illusion and Pass on top of that. And the kitsune's high evade boosted by forest tiles so 75% to hit is considered good.

P.S. After visiting some other castle and having Mozu cook super-duper food for my entire army, i really regret having her killed and not resetting.

?q · « **Reply #322 on:** July 25, 2016, 11:13:04 AM »

Quote from: commandercool on July 25, 2016, 03:24:56 AM

I have three Draconic Hex users, so I can send one of them in first. Shigure would definitely die though, so it would have to be Kana. I think she would be fine.

For what it's worth, my clear of Endgame

Spoiler:

Also, it's not totally infeasible for Shigure to go first if he happens to have a Dual Guard ready... but you'd want to make sure you sealed the victory on that turn.

Quote

P.S. After visiting some other castle and having Mozu cook super-duper food for my entire army, i really regret having her killed and not resetting.

A bunch of the really good chefs in Fates are in Conquest, so all is definitely not lost.

commandercool · « **Reply #323 on:** July 25, 2016, 12:44:22 PM »

Quote from: ?q on July 25, 2016, 11:13:04 AM

For what it's worth, my clear of Endgame
Spoiler:
was in no way deathless. It wasn't even deathless before I made the brilliant tactical decision of giving Arthur the Brave Axe, which he whiffed with instead of won with. That forced me to take an extra turn, and I got cut down to five units desperately clawing at the boss. The additional Skill the boss gets on Lunatic is Lifetaker, and as it turns out it actually means something if you can't pile on well enough <___<

Getting a deathless Endgame (without specifically preparing for it) isn't impossible but it might be infeasible for many teams. On the other hand, the only thing that gets saved about what happens in 27/E is the logbook registration; you can't register dead units into the logbook. If you don't care about that, what you consider a victory is up to you.
Also, it's not totally infeasible for Shigure to go first if he happens to have a Dual Guard ready... but you'd want to make sure you sealed the victory on that turn.

Sounds about like my clear on hard. I'm pretty much prepared for that to happen again, although I wouldn't prefer it obviously.

Quote from: ?q on July 25, 2016, 11:13:04 AM

A bunch of the really good chefs in Fates are in Conquest, so all is definitely not lost.

Hoshido gets Chefs Hat though, for what that's worth.

?q · « **Reply #324 on:** July 26, 2016, 01:25:49 AM »

The real way to play involves banking on Felicia's "mistakes". :V In my current run when I built the Mess Hall the generic shopkeep actually gave me a miscook, which was kind of hilarious.

--

Ch. 11 clear. I didn't bother with the right side because screw Hexing Rod. Nyx took care of Setsuna's room, Precious was the bait for Kaze's room, and Vow:Silas and Camilla tag-teamed the center room. Hinoka is my favorite Hoshidan royal and it's really depressing how much she's set up to fail. (Of course, she gets her revenge. Oh, but she gets her revenge.) Silas married Precious, and wow Silas is so awkward in his voiced scenes.

Entering Ch. 12 I have no Locktouch and no healers, and since I'm buying like 10,000G worth of seals before Ch. 21 I think I have to go out of my way to burn a Heart Seal on Laslow and get him a level so he can pick up Locktouch for the 5000G in this Chapter. Healers just aren't happening until Nyx marries Jakob, which will take another four or five maps :[

commandercool · « **Reply #325 on:** July 26, 2016, 01:30:58 AM »

Quote from: ?q on July 26, 2016, 01:25:49 AM

Ch. 11 clear. I didn't bother with the right side because screw Hexing Rod. Nyx took care of Setsuna's room, Precious was the bait for Kaze's room, and Vow:Silas and Camilla tag-teamed the center room. Hinoka is my favorite Hoshidan royal and it's really depressing how much she's set up to fail. (Of course, she gets her revenge. Oh, but she gets her revenge.) Silas married Precious, and wow Silas is so awkward in his voiced scenes.

I married Silas in my Birthright lunatic run. Silas is garbage. :V

His daughter is adorable and fairly useful though, so it's kind of forgivable.

theshirn · « **Reply #326 on:** July 26, 2016, 03:08:34 AM »

Silas is at his best in Revelation, not least because he shows up with almost 40hp and good stats.

Mеа · « **Reply #327 on:** July 26, 2016, 08:39:18 AM »

I really don't like silas much, he's like a clingy boyscout for the avatar it's kinda annoying. Or maybe it's explained in his heart events if I felt like keeping him.

CF7 · « **Reply #328 on:** July 26, 2016, 09:32:23 AM »

So i went to Fuga's Amusement Park for his main attraction Wild Wind Rides. They are kinda fun.
Also relevant. Or it was until i finally upgraded Mess Hall to level 3.

?q · « **Reply #329 on:** July 26, 2016, 11:21:53 AM »

Quote from: theshirn on July 26, 2016, 03:08:34 AM

Silas is at his best in Revelation, not least because he shows up with almost 40hp and good stats.

Silas's bases are amazing in Revelation and he's definitely no-grind endgame-tier but on Lunatic he just can't compete with the royals because the enemies are so strong and tend to double him.

---

Quote from: Mea

I really don't like silas much, he's like a clingy boyscout for the avatar it's kinda annoying. Or maybe it's explained in his heart events if I felt like keeping him.

No that's basically it. Puppy love that got kicked in the butt by puberty.
People really seem to hate the guy a lot more than he deserves for being a dork with bad social skills, though.

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Quote from: commandercool

I married Silas in my Birthright lunatic run. Silas is garbage. :V

eh wot
Well to be fair Silas swings hard between amazing and terrible (delicious Eliwood growths in HP/Spd/Def).
FWIW Vow of Friendship is explained kind of badly ingame but once you know what it does you can make Silas amazing early game and hope the levels keep it going.

Now if you're talking about his *raises eyebrow* private quarters game then you're probably right. The guy seems somewhere between clingy and scared out of his mind.

---

Quote from: CF7

Also relevant. Or it was until i finally upgraded Mess Hall to level 3.

I never really understood why the two upgrade effects to the Mess Hall were in the order they are. Why would you want to burn two resources to buff units you aren't using :V